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Old
02-12-2009, 11:26 AM
  #51
chewey
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Originally Posted by 1927 View Post
I don't know about Wolski. This is his third year in the NHL, which means a breakout year. Wolski is on pace for another 50 point season for his breakout year, which makes me wonder if he will ever become a 70+ point player.

The only upside to him is age at 22 years old. Otherwise, Wolski has not proven much in the NHL yet, and even Paul Stastny has put up 70 point seasons showing he has the skill to be a top tier player in the NHL.

The Maple Leafs could use a work in progress player like Wolski, but it would be difficult to gauge what they can offer for him. Let me ponder this further, and I will try to post a constructive offer that makes sense for both Colorado and Toronto.

Is there a player from Toronto (other than Kaberle) where Colorado would love to have? If Colorado is doing a full out rebuild, then chances are they would not want Kaberle, unless it is a re-tool like Philadelphia did last year.
Now thats just stupid. Joe Thronton didn't hit 70 points till his 4th season, Jeff Carter didn't break out till this season, his 4th season, Dumont didn't hit 70 till 2 seasons ago, Briere didn't hit 60 till his 5th season [given his previous seasons were injury filled] Lecavalier hit 60 points in his second season but didn't didn't reach near 60 points till two seasons later, Savard didn't hit 60 points till his 4th season either, Hossa hit 50+ points in his third season and previous to that had less than 40 points in all of his seasons, and in his 4th season did he hit 70+ points, Iginla didn't hit 60 points till his 4th season, Marleau didn't even hit 80+ points till his 8th season, and reached 50 point mark in his 4th season, Doan didn't even hit 60+ points till his 6th season.

Yea, 3rd season is the breakout season for all players.

I mean, why can't Wolski score like everyone else in the league that breakout in their 3rd season?

The majority of the players do breakout during the 3rd season but not all, and don't be fooled into thinking that his point production is everything because since his first season his 2 way game has developed a lot better, he's focused on working on his defensive game first. Plus, here is an interesting stat:

- 1st season ATOI: 15:31
- 2nd season ATOI: 15:56

For a player to get better, they obviously need more ice time and not till this season due to many injuries did Wolski finally get 18+ ATOI. Also recently he's been converted to the center position, his natural position than a winger where he has gone 15 games with 13 points and a + 1.

This year, recently past 15 games or so, you can say statically "he's broken out". But to assume that he won't get any better just because he hasn't "broken out" or produced 70+ points in his first three seasons is just a terrible thing to base a person's talent on.

As for a player, Luke Schenn for Darcy Tucker and Andrew Raycroft?

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Old
02-12-2009, 11:28 AM
  #52
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We can't re-tool, we did it 2 years ago, getting smyth and hannan. Both decent signings so far (smyth he was great in the playoffs, and this season), although overpaid. After last year, we had hoped we would stay healthy all year and make another last run at the playoffs, but we realize now that our only chance is a full rebuild as soon as possible. I don't want to trade Wolski, after switching to center hes game has been better, the supporting cast is just so depleted right now. Between Toronto and Colorado, I don't see alot of important pieces moving for either teams. Both craving more youth, and not vets.
I figured Colorado would go the route of Toronto. This is why I decided not to post any proposals for our veterans, as I thought more youth would be wanted from Colorado. Looks like both teams are not good trading partners at this time.

Dmitri, I did not say Wolski was a bad player only that he had upside and could be a work in progress. At this time, Wolski is a 50 point player with potential for more. That is good to have on any team, and this is why Toronto would be interested in having a player of Wolski's caliber and upside.

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Old
02-12-2009, 11:35 AM
  #53
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Originally Posted by 1927 View Post
Dmitri, I did not say Wolski was a bad player only that he had upside and could be a work in progress. At this time, Wolski is a 50 point player with potential for more. That is good to have on any team, and this is why Toronto would be interested in having a player of Wolski's caliber and upside.

Bah sorry. Internet, easy to misread a post.
But, back to Schenn for Tucker + Raycroft.
You guys know you need a goalie.

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Old
02-12-2009, 11:39 AM
  #54
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I figured Colorado would go the route of Toronto. This is why I decided not to post any proposals for our veterans, as I thought more youth would be wanted from Colorado. Looks like both teams are not good trading partners at this time.
Just watch, with all those road games, we're even gonna out tank the leafs.

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Old
02-12-2009, 11:41 AM
  #55
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3rd round would be fine. Or again, a prospect with potential as a good faceoff taking gritty bottom 6er.
Deal. Now let's get hired as GMs and make this happen.

Out of curiosity, why are the opinions on Clark so low? Just the salary issue or has he failed to impress? Obviously he's not an offensive-minded guy. But he seems to have a solid defensive game and log a lot of minutes.

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Old
02-12-2009, 11:45 AM
  #56
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Originally Posted by CapsWolverinesUSA View Post
Deal. Now let's get hired as GMs and make this happen.

Out of curiosity, why are the opinions on Clark so low? Just the salary issue or has he failed to impress? Obviously he's not an offensive-minded guy. But he seems to have a solid defensive game and log a lot of minutes.
He logs alot of mins because our coach is a moron, and Clark can look all calm and collected even after 3 or 4 brain farts in a row. He has good blocking stats because he thinks hes a goalie. Clark regressed significantly over the last 2 years and definitely overpaid now. If a "change of scenery" can make him play like he used to, great. The strength of the Avs prospect system is defense right now (Shattenkirk, Cohen, Williams etc), so Clark doesn't have that much of a future with us anyways.

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Old
02-12-2009, 11:56 AM
  #57
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Originally Posted by CapsWolverinesUSA View Post
Deal. Now let's get hired as GMs and make this happen.

Out of curiosity, why are the opinions on Clark so low? Just the salary issue or has he failed to impress? Obviously he's not an offensive-minded guy. But he seems to have a solid defensive game and log a lot of minutes.
There are a lot of factors here. He is over payed by a little. Not quite Finger like, but still overpaid. He is also overused. He would probably make a good 2nd or 3rd pairing defender, but we use him as a 1st a lot, and he looks pretty bad there. He does block a ton of shots, but he was mainly supposed to be a offensive guy, which has not worked his season. And he is prone to lazy or just plain bad defensive plays.

The Avalanche would be wise to trade him and use his cap space to re-sign Leopold, who is a better player and younger. Or use that cap space to go after a decent goalie.

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Old
02-12-2009, 12:04 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by hockeyfish View Post
There are a lot of factors here. He is over payed by a little. Not quite Finger like, but still overpaid. He is also overused. He would probably make a good 2nd or 3rd pairing defender, but we use him as a 1st a lot, and he looks pretty bad there. He does block a ton of shots, but he was mainly supposed to be a offensive guy, which has not worked his season. And he is prone to lazy or just plain bad defensive plays.

The Avalanche would be wise to trade him and use his cap space to re-sign Leopold, who is a better player and younger. Or use that cap space to go after a decent goalie.
Fair enough. Thanks for the info (you too, Pure). I haven't watched the Avs a ton this year, but on paper, his numbers seem pretty impressive. He has the best even-strength goals against per game ratio of the blueline core, while playing the 2nd most minutes.

Would you believe it if I told you Clark's been on the ice for fewer even-strength goals against than Andrei Markov (in the same number of games) despite playing more ES minutes per game? And that's further in spite of Colorado surrendering a dozen more even strength goals this season?

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Old
02-12-2009, 05:31 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by CapsWolverinesUSA View Post
Fair enough. Thanks for the info (you too, Pure). I haven't watched the Avs a ton this year, but on paper, his numbers seem pretty impressive. He has the best even-strength goals against per game ratio of the blueline core, while playing the 2nd most minutes.

Would you believe it if I told you Clark's been on the ice for fewer even-strength goals against than Andrei Markov (in the same number of games) despite playing more ES minutes per game? And that's further in spite of Colorado surrendering a dozen more even strength goals this season?
Clark is an enigma like that. His stats say that he's an excellent defender, and his supporters use these endlessly to defend him, but his on-ice play simply does not match. Watch a replay of Minnesota's GWG from last night, that pretty much sums up his play. If he were used as a second or third pair defender he'd be a lot better, unfortunately for us he's played as a #1.

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Old
02-12-2009, 05:42 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by ice berg slim View Post
Everyone but Statsny, Hejduk, Smyth and Stewart are available. Make your offer
The thread title is worth a free pick to CO alone.

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Old
02-12-2009, 08:27 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by CapsWolverinesUSA View Post
Fair enough. Thanks for the info (you too, Pure). I haven't watched the Avs a ton this year, but on paper, his numbers seem pretty impressive. He has the best even-strength goals against per game ratio of the blueline core, while playing the 2nd most minutes.

Would you believe it if I told you Clark's been on the ice for fewer even-strength goals against than Andrei Markov (in the same number of games) despite playing more ES minutes per game? And that's further in spite of Colorado surrendering a dozen more even strength goals this season?
I would have. Clark's the player that some Avs fans have assigned all blame to...you know how it is. He's not played very well this year though, not a great deal of offense and his defense has had some glaring errors. He's also used way too much on the PK, but that's not his fault so much.

He's a decent 2nd pairing guy. He's worth a 2nd or a 3rd.

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Old
02-12-2009, 08:36 PM
  #62
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To be fair, Clark has saved/blocked more than his fair share of goals.

He has value. It's just that he's worn out his welcome with Avs fans. It happens to a lot of decent players.

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Old
02-12-2009, 08:41 PM
  #63
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This a firesale.. you can't make Smyth and Hejduk untouchable

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02-12-2009, 08:41 PM
  #64
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This a firesale.. you can't make Smyth and Hejduk untouchable
No, but Smyth and Hejduk can.

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Old
02-12-2009, 11:25 PM
  #65
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Trade Brett Clark and a 3rd round draft pick for Nik Antropov
Trade Marek Svatos, Darcy Tucker and a prospect (not sure who) for Kari Lehtonen

maybe???

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Old
02-12-2009, 11:29 PM
  #66
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Trade Brett Clark and a 3rd round draft pick for Nik Antropov
Trade Marek Svatos, Darcy Tucker and a prospect (not sure who) for Kari Lehtonen

maybe???
I don't think either team involved would do those trades, and I'm not certain they would even be good moves. CO needs youth, not oft-injured guys or about to be UFA vets.

But hey, if they're down I'm sure CO would be too!

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Old
02-13-2009, 12:43 AM
  #67
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I don't think either team involved would do those trades, and I'm not certain they would even be good moves. CO needs youth, not oft-injured guys or about to be UFA vets.

But hey, if they're down I'm sure CO would be too!
The first deal is dumb for both teams.

The second deal is one I'd do if I was the Avs, depending on who that prospect is. If it's someone like Shattenkirk or Cohen or Stewart, than heck no, but if it's a middle/lower end prospect than I'd do it for sure.

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Old
02-13-2009, 10:43 PM
  #68
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All of Canada had a chance to watch the Avs lose to the Habs tonight. Make your offers. U can have Granato aswell. I dont know what you want to do with him waterboy, stick boy, sex slave watever we need him off the bench.

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Old
02-13-2009, 10:49 PM
  #69
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All of Canada had a chance to watch the Avs lose to the Habs tonight. Make your offers. U can have Granato aswell. I dont know what you want to do with him waterboy, stick boy, sex slave watever we need him off the bench.
As an added bonus, we'll throw Jacques Cloutier in for FREE!

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Old
02-13-2009, 11:10 PM
  #70
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What does the price sticker on TJ Hensick read?

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Old
02-13-2009, 11:12 PM
  #71
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What does the price sticker on TJ Hensick read?
The price reads "don't bother"

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Old
02-13-2009, 11:24 PM
  #72
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What does the price sticker on TJ Hensick read?
Pascal Leclaire, if he was healthy.

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Old
02-14-2009, 01:09 AM
  #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CapsWolverinesUSA View Post
What would the Avs be looking for from Washington in exchange for Brett Clark?
i don't usually weigh in on these threads, but you asked it so...

if there could be anything worked out around brett clark and boyd gordon, i would work the phones myself without sleep to get it done...

i love gordon from red deer, and he is one of my favorite players, just another one of those important middle forward players that kinda does everything and can play in each zone...

i'd love gordon in an avalanche jersey, i think him working with a guy like mcleod and stewart maybe, or jones would make a good shifty line

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Old
02-14-2009, 01:15 AM
  #74
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What would Tjarnqvist cost?

Gotta imagine Edmonton would be interested given Visnovsky/Grebeshkov...

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Old
02-14-2009, 01:17 AM
  #75
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What would Tjarnqvist cost?

Gotta imagine Edmonton would be interested given Visnovsky/Grebeshkov...
4th/5th round pick I guess. Depth defenceman. Usually pretty solid.

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