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Ok, Slats, Now Find A Coach

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Old
03-10-2004, 06:31 AM
  #1
KING
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Ok, Slats, Now Find A Coach

http://nypost.com/sports/rangers/16961.htm

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03-10-2004, 07:12 AM
  #2
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Brooks is right again. A proper coach is of utmost importance. Renney IS NOT the man for the job. Not when he chooses to play Messier 19+ minutes last night and Hlavac 17+ on the top lines, while Lundmark gets to play w/ Green & Sandra. Not when it is his system that failed.
Q remains my first choice. McGill would be a good choice as well. It's kind of like when Jackass choose not to go w/ Torts. And now look at TB. McGill & Fotiu could be a good choice. Just keep Green as far away as possible and let Renney do ANYTHING but coach.

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03-10-2004, 07:18 AM
  #3
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Agreed. McGill has turned the Pack around in 2 years, and I think he would do wonders on the big club. At the same time, the thought of Quenneville is intriguing. I'll be happy with one or the other.


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03-10-2004, 07:24 AM
  #4
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I agree with you about Renney as coach...

Quote:
Originally Posted by True Blue
Brooks is right again. A proper coach is of utmost importance. Renney IS NOT the man for the job. Not when he chooses to play Messier 19+ minutes last night and Hlavac 17+ on the top lines, while Lundmark gets to play w/ Green & Sandra. Not when it is his system that failed.
Q remains my first choice. McGill would be a good choice as well. It's kind of like when Jackass choose not to go w/ Torts. And now look at TB. McGill & Fotiu could be a good choice. Just keep Green as far away as possible and let Renney do ANYTHING but coach.
but, I think the guy is a good personnel man. As for his system, I think you will find that, when young malleable players become indoctrinated into it, it will look a lot better than when lazy, overpaid, egotistical players do. What did a Kovalev, Nedved or Malakhov have to gain? OTOH, look at how seemlessly a Lampman fit in last night. Or how Murray and Ortmeyer have no problem playing the system. And, TB, I have to reiterate a point I made yesterday. With Lampman in the lineup last night, that makes four players from the 2001 draft that have made the NHL. And, while it's early, so far, I would say everyone is pleased with the results. The 2001 draft was the first draft where the current ranger hierarchy was in place, with Renney and Maloney running things. And, not surprisingly, it took about three years for those players to develop enough to reach the NHL. So, any comments on Sather's previous drafting records mean zilch. Start with 2001, and give it the appropriate three-five years time to see what the results are.

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03-10-2004, 07:29 AM
  #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jas
but, I think the guy is a good personnel man.
They guy may be a good personnel man as far as scouting goes, but he is NOT an NHL coach.
As for his system looking better w/ younger players, I would say yes, but for the fact that it was his system that also failed miserably in Vancouver when Naslund and Bert were younger than thay are now.

As for the 2001 draft, it is FAR too early to judge. We really need more than one energetic game to be able to judge fairly. Heck, Peter Smerk looked good for a few games as well. There is far more to the game than just getting a bunch of future 3rd/4th liners. You cannot win w/ a team of nothing but them. You need actuall talent somewhere.

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03-10-2004, 07:34 AM
  #6
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In Umberger, Balej, Rachunek and Kondratiev...

Quote:
Originally Posted by True Blue
They guy may be a good personnel man as far as scouting goes, but he is NOT an NHL coach.
As for his system looking better w/ younger players, I would say yes, but for the fact that it was his system that also failed miserably in Vancouver when Naslund and Bert were younger than thay are now.

As for the 2001 draft, it is FAR too early to judge. We really need more than one energetic game to be able to judge fairly. Heck, Peter Smerk looked good for a few games as well. There is far more to the game than just getting a bunch of future 3rd/4th liners. You cannot win w/ a team of nothing but them. You need actuall talent somewhere.
they did get more than the third and fourth liners. Add in the #1 pick, which could very well been in the top five, and six picks overall in the yop fifty, and I would say they have a good opportunity to get more talent.

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03-10-2004, 07:47 AM
  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by True Blue
Brooks is right again.
At this point I'm not sure which is more shocking:

Larry Brooks has actually been writing intelligent hockey articles

or

Rangers actually decided to tear this thing down and start fresh

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03-10-2004, 07:57 AM
  #8
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It's really sickening TB, it really is...

I cannot say that Holik, Jagr, Messier, and even Hlavac didn't deserve the ice time - Holik was a force out there; Jagr was all over the place; and for the most part, Hlavac excelled. Ditto Messier, who played well in all three zones. But at this point in the season when you should be preparing for next season, you don't play your 'known' forwards for 19-21 minutes in a game. You throw Balej out there for 5 minutes - perfect opportunity to see what he can do - perhaps with Lundmark and Ortmeyer - or with Holik and Jagr - or with Messier and Murray, and DLac with Holik. It makes zero sense to me and it continues to sicken me. Renney's coaching exactly like Sather - which almost leads me to believe that either Sather's still coaching the team, or Renney had a lot to say throughout the season and much of this mess falls on him. I'm just besides myself, even after watching one of the most hard-working efforts we've seen from the Rangers this season. And man, there is a possibility we all fall in love with Murray. If he can start converting much of those chances (and it seems as though he has the hands to possibly do so), he's gonna be a playa.

and jas, beware...all those picks won't be the Rangers come draft day. There will be moves, most likely. I'd be surprised that Sather would keep both #1s this year. And I'd be surprised if he kept all those #2s this year. There are a lot of teams out there that have traded a good deal of youth/picks who may not mind getting a youngish warm body, call him Lundmark or Poti, and a pick. There may be some RFAs out there that Sather can pick up dangling those and perhaps help along with the rebuild - but again, it may be opportunistic as opposed to sticking to a plan, which is what keeps getting this team into trouble.


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Old
03-10-2004, 09:26 AM
  #9
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Fletch...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fletch
I cannot say that Holik, Jagr, Messier, and even Hlavac didn't deserve the ice time - Holik was a force out there; Jagr was all over the place; and for the most part, Hlavac excelled. Ditto Messier, who played well in all three zones. But at this point in the season when you should be preparing for next season, you don't play your 'known' forwards for 19-21 minutes in a game. You throw Balej out there for 5 minutes - perfect opportunity to see what he can do - perhaps with Lundmark and Ortmeyer - or with Holik and Jagr - or with Messier and Murray, and DLac with Holik. It makes zero sense to me and it continues to sicken me. Renney's coaching exactly like Sather - which almost leads me to believe that either Sather's still coaching the team, or Renney had a lot to say throughout the season and much of this mess falls on him. I'm just besides myself, even after watching one of the most hard-working efforts we've seen from the Rangers this season. And man, there is a possibility we all fall in love with Murray. If he can start converting much of those chances (and it seems as though he has the hands to possibly do so), he's gonna be a playa.

and jas, beware...all those picks won't be the Rangers come draft day. There will be moves, most likely. I'd be surprised that Sather would keep both #1s this year. And I'd be surprised if he kept all those #2s this year. There are a lot of teams out there that have traded a good deal of youth/picks who may not mind getting a youngish warm body, call him Lundmark or Poti, and a pick. There may be some RFAs out there that Sather can pick up dangling those and perhaps help along with the rebuild - but again, it may be opportunistic as opposed to sticking to a plan, which is what keeps getting this team into trouble.
I fully expect Sather to use those picks to target getting Ovechkin. I could see a package of Lundmark, our #1 and an additional 2nd round pick or two going to pittsburgh. I also could see Sather trying to package Toronto's #1 and a couple of 2nd's to try and move up into the top ten. And, with the emergence of Tyutin, the growth of Lampman, the acquisitions of Rachunek and Kondrtiev, (and to a lesser extent, Liffiton), plus the return of Kasparitis, I could easily see Poti made available over the summer or on draft day. Most of all, the activity of the past week gives Sather ammunition. Also, I think the acquisition of Grenier greases the skids for the departure of Purinton. His continued stupid play is a burden to this team.

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03-10-2004, 09:37 AM
  #10
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Sather screwed the pooch one by not promoting a winning coach in the organization, John Paddock. Making the same mistake with McGill will be unforgiveable. He and Fotiu have proven they know what they're doing, they know the players and they deserve the shot.

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03-10-2004, 09:44 AM
  #11
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Mj...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Melrose_Jr.
Sather screwed the pooch one by not promoting a winning coach in the organization, John Paddock. Making the same mistake with McGill will be unforgiveable. He and Fotiu have proven they know what they're doing, they know the players and they deserve the shot.
I'd have no problem with that. The same system that the Ranger fatcats couldn't play is the one that has made Hartford successful. Why is it that players like Ortmeyer, Murray and now Lampman seem more comfortable playing the system than anyone in NY?

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03-10-2004, 09:44 AM
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fletch
Renney's coaching exactly like Sather - which almost leads me to believe that either Sather's still coaching the team,
Did you really believe that Jackass would give up control of the team? There's a reason that he only hires puppets. Ever notice that all of his coaches (save for Kevin Lowe) act and talk similarly?

"Sather screwed the pooch one by not promoting a winning coach in the organization, John Paddock. Making the same mistake with McGill will be unforgiveable. He and Fotiu have proven they know what they're doing, they know the players and they deserve the shot."

Agreed. Especially given that there will be no NHL next year, but there will be an AHL. So McGill (somewhere out there Aneirin is screaming) and Fotiu will have another full year w/ what they had and all the new guys. They would be the perfect duo to handle the next Rangers team. Q is my top choice still though. I don't want Robbinson. His comments did not lead me to believe that he would be anything but a $$$ hire.

"Why is it that players like Ortmeyer, Murray and now Lampman seem more comfortable playing the system than anyone in NY?"

Heck, even Richard Scott and Macdonald did not look out of place as far as defensive positioning goes.

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Old
03-10-2004, 09:57 AM
  #13
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I'm torn between getting a good young coach who's trying to prove himself(McGill) or a coach who knows the ropes, can evaluate the players on & off the ice, and has already shown he can win in the league. At this point in time, the organization has to decide which one is the right fit. Hell, I really don't know. Any of you know?

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03-10-2004, 09:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by True Blue
Q is my top choice still though..
If I'd blown away by the success of the Blues over the past 8 years, I'd agree. Unfortuneately, I see a team that was assembled to win a Cup long time ago that only seems to disappoint year after year.

Love him or hate him, Robinson's a proven winner in today's NHL. I don't think he's the right fit for this job, but I don't think there's a better "free agent" coach out there, generally speaking.

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03-10-2004, 10:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SatherExecutioner
.....and they have tons of injuries each year, and their goaltending was changing each year, and they had no solid defensemen besides Mcinnis and Pronger.......
And the fans keep booing, and the sticks keep breaking, and we're beset by injuries, and...... Stop me if you've heard any of this before.

I'm not interested in excuses, I'm interested in results.

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03-10-2004, 10:43 AM
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Where is Ron Wilson coaching these days?

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03-10-2004, 11:08 AM
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SatherExecutioner
They weren't very successful in playoffs, but they had great regular season records. I think we are not going for the cup yet, we just want to get to the playoffs and Quenville is one of the few that can get us there.
I'm personnaly not looking for a coach to get us to the playoffs (I figure that is several years away, and we can get a new coach if the need arises), I'm looking for a coach who can develop young players ... I beleive Quenville is a legitimate option, as I think he would be successful at developing players (and has been). My personal preference would be Larry Robinson or else paddock ...

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03-10-2004, 11:10 AM
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SatherExecutioner
Sharks
That's one good coach.

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03-10-2004, 11:35 AM
  #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SatherExecutioner
Turned the Pack around? Weren't they a good team before him?
If you consider the fact that the rooster was filled w/ AHL vets and other AAAA players, then yes.

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03-10-2004, 11:37 AM
  #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SatherExecutioner
Turned the Pack around? Weren't they a good team before him?
Before he came, the team did play fine, heck they won the Calder Cup, but this was just a veterans' team. AHL All stars and NHL rejects, but they were good enough to go over the top. How often did we get NHL-ready youth out of Hartford at the time?

After they got rid of many veterans down there, McGill (and Fotiu) got plenty of youth (Ranger-wise) to work with. He taught them a system, he taught them what it takes to be successful, he taught them defense. He started with a bunch young inexperienced players and now 2 years after he took over they're 2nd overall in the AHL standings, and headed for another Calder Cup, but this time with young players. This is quite an accomplishment. So yeah, he "turned the Pack around" in my mind.

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