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02-13-2009, 12:31 PM
  #126
jagrgodr
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Alright i listened to the Air traffic Control audio tape, which i can't believe that was made public and it was scary listening to. I played a little of the things in the middle and then went to the end. The pilot said something about ice on the wings right before they were landing. I couldnt listen to the last minute for fear of being freaked the **** out for life.

Also i read an article that said that those planes are one of THE safest for a 50 seat plane, but blows donkey balls when dealing with ice.

I'm not a weather or flight expert but what the ***** are they doing flying a plane that sucks in icy condition when they are flying to ****ing BUFFALO. Does this piss anyone else off?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

edit: apparently the icy call was another plane, sorry for starting a rumor.

liveatc.net - link to download 30 minutes of audio

article on safe plane - http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/02/13/pro...ety/index.html

Daly said propeller-driven aircraft such as the Canadian-built Bombardier Dash 8 Q400 and its European rival, the ATR series, had sold well to airlines in the last three years because they were almost as fast as jets, cruising at about 480 kilometers/hour (300 mph), but used much less fuel. Listen to audio of plane's last moments

However, despite an excellent safety record, some passengers were still wary of traveling on propeller planes, he said.

Daly said that for most of the time turboprops were as safe as similar-sized, 50-seater jets, but in icy conditions turboprops were at a disadvantage.


Last edited by jagrgodr: 02-13-2009 at 12:43 PM.
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02-13-2009, 12:36 PM
  #127
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Yeah. Me. I wish the flights were just canceled. You can always fly home the next day.

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02-13-2009, 12:38 PM
  #128
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jagrgodr View Post
Alright i listened to the Air traffic Control audio tape, which i can't believe that was made public and it was scary listening to. I played a little of the things in the middle and then went to the end. The pilot said something about ice on the wings right before they were landing. I couldnt listen to the last minute for fear of being freaked the **** out for life.

Also i read an article that said that those planes are one of THE safest for a 50 seat plane, but blows donkey balls when dealing with ice.

I'm not a weather or flight expert but what the ***** are they doing flying a plane that sucks in icy condition when they are flying to ****ing BUFFALO. Does this piss anyone else off?!?!?!?!?!?!?!
Can you send the link?

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02-13-2009, 12:38 PM
  #129
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jagrgodr View Post
Alright i listened to the Air traffic Control audio tape, which i can't believe that was made public and it was scary listening to. I played a little of the things in the middle and then went to the end. The pilot said something about ice on the wings right before they were landing. I couldnt listen to the last minute for fear of being freaked the **** out for life.

Also i read an article that said that those planes are one of THE safest for a 50 seat plane, but blows donkey balls when dealing with ice.

I'm not a weather or flight expert but what the ***** are they doing flying a plane that sucks in icy condition when they are flying to ****ing BUFFALO. Does this piss anyone else off?!?!?!?!?!?!?!
Actually those calls about the ice were not the flight that went down.

The flight that went down basically said nothing.

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02-13-2009, 12:44 PM
  #130
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jagrgodr View Post
Alright i listened to the Air traffic Control audio tape, which i can't believe that was made public and it was scary listening to. I played a little of the things in the middle and then went to the end. The pilot said something about ice on the wings right before they were landing. I couldnt listen to the last minute for fear of being freaked the **** out for life.

Also i read an article that said that those planes are one of THE safest for a 50 seat plane, but blows donkey balls when dealing with ice.

I'm not a weather or flight expert but what the ***** are they doing flying a plane that sucks in icy condition when they are flying to ****ing BUFFALO. Does this piss anyone else off?!?!?!?!?!?!?!
The pilot you heard talking about icing wasn't the pilot of the plane that crashed. The plane that crashed went down without any indication of any problems. They just sort of...stopped answering ATC. So there really isn't anything scary about it.

Don't know any specifics about whether the Dash-8 has issues with ice, but I've flown in them about a million times, in all sorts of weather conditions, and never had any concerns. My understanding is that there are systems in place to deal with the ice & used properly they make it pretty safe.

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02-13-2009, 12:45 PM
  #131
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---------------------------- http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/02/13/pro...ety/index.html

Daly said propeller-driven aircraft such as the Canadian-built Bombardier Dash 8 Q400 and its European rival, the ATR series, had sold well to airlines in the last three years because they were almost as fast as jets, cruising at about 480 kilometers/hour (300 mph), but used much less fuel. Listen to audio of plane's last moments

However, despite an excellent safety record, some passengers were still wary of traveling on propeller planes, he said.

Daly said that for most of the time turboprops were as safe as similar-sized, 50-seater jets, but in icy conditions turboprops were at a disadvantage.

---------------------------- liveatc.net
listen to the audio. and to clairfy, i didnt hear anything scary sounding, like the pilot screaming. I heard really no mention of anything and closed it in fear of hearing something.

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02-13-2009, 12:48 PM
  #132
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jagrgodr View Post
---------------------------- http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/02/13/pro...ety/index.html

Daly said propeller-driven aircraft such as the Canadian-built Bombardier Dash 8 Q400 and its European rival, the ATR series, had sold well to airlines in the last three years because they were almost as fast as jets, cruising at about 480 kilometers/hour (300 mph), but used much less fuel. Listen to audio of plane's last moments

However, despite an excellent safety record, some passengers were still wary of traveling on propeller planes, he said.

Daly said that for most of the time turboprops were as safe as similar-sized, 50-seater jets, but in icy conditions turboprops were at a disadvantage.

---------------------------- liveatc.net
listen to the audio.
There's a pretty big difference between "at a disadvantage" compared to other 50-seater jets and "sucks donkey balls." It just means it isn't as safe as other jets in icy conditions, not that it's unsafe. It's also hard to tell from that clip whether he is saying they are actually less safe, or that passengers are more wary of them.

And that ATC recording still isn't the plane that went down talking about the ice. It's easier to understand if you see a transcript. Here.

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02-13-2009, 12:48 PM
  #133
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The CNN audio was removed. I heard a portion of it this morning on CNN the channel, but I didn't hear anything about ice on the wings. It was ATC asking where the plane went after it dropped off radar, and advised other inbound planes to keep an eye out for it.

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02-13-2009, 01:39 PM
  #134
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also 2 members of chuck mangione's band were on the plane.

they were supposed to play with the BPO tonight, but that was obviously canceled

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02-13-2009, 01:41 PM
  #135
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my deepest condolences to any board member who lost friends or loved ones as well as to all of Western NY and to most importantly, the families and victims of the crash. May you find peace during this difficult time.


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02-13-2009, 01:46 PM
  #136
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quickdraw View Post
also 2 members of chuck mangione's band were on the plane.

they were supposed to play with the BPO tonight, but that was obviously canceled
Has the passenger manifest been released yet?

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02-13-2009, 01:49 PM
  #137
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Originally Posted by BikeGiftingMan View Post
Has the passenger manifest been released yet?
No. Names are trickling in, I think as families confirm that their loved ones were aboard.

TBN is updating a list here.

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02-13-2009, 01:50 PM
  #138
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bflohockeygirl View Post

Don't know any specifics about whether the Dash-8 has issues with ice, but I've flown in them about a million times, in all sorts of weather conditions, and never had any concerns. My understanding is that there are systems in place to deal with the ice & used properly they make it pretty safe.
There have been issues with improper use of the de-icing system on that model:
http://www.aviation.ca/content/view/3231/118/

It could have just as likely been wind shear or a dozen other things. I won't fly on turbo props anymore after a crazy flight under similar conditions. At one point the flight attendant told us all to move to the back of the plane so the pilot could control it better.

What a tragedy. I'm dreading the release of the passenger list.

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02-13-2009, 01:54 PM
  #139
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Very awesome technical write-up about what could have happened to cause the plane to drop from the sky. Well worth the read.

http://milesobrien.wordpress.com/200...cool-about-it/

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02-13-2009, 01:55 PM
  #140
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BikeGiftingMan View Post
Has the passenger manifest been released yet?
As b-girl said, the names are trickling in, although I do know of the 4 names of my co-workers. Obviously I won't tell out of respect, but I presume they'll be named sooned to the public and connecting them to my company.

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02-13-2009, 01:55 PM
  #141
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This isn't receiving as much UK media interest as maybe some other crashes have but because of my Buffalo-biased sporting sentiments (and desire to live there, be that mad given its reputation elsewhere) this is making me really sad and worried. Simply praying that everyone here is fine, extending that to their families and friends and hoping beyond anything that nobody is affected by this in terms of loss.

Keep strong Buffalo.

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02-13-2009, 01:56 PM
  #142
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Buffaloed View Post
There have been issues with improper use of the de-icing system on that model:
http://www.aviation.ca/content/view/3231/118/

It could have just as likely been wind shear or a dozen other things. I won't fly on turbo props anymore after a crazy flight under similar conditions. At one point the flight attendant told us all to move to the back of the plane so the pilot could control it better.

What a tragedy. I'm dreading the release of the passenger list.
Thanks for the link - I was interested in reading more, since I couldn't get much from that bit of quote.

I'm also dreading that. :/

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02-13-2009, 01:56 PM
  #143
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just a terrible tragedy all around. I was 2 miles from the crash site when it happened and could feel the ground shake. A classmate of mine from college was on the plane as well. My heart goes to anyone with any ties to this tragedy.

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02-13-2009, 02:00 PM
  #144
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quickdraw View Post
Very awesome technical write-up about what could have happened to cause the plane to drop from the sky. Well worth the read.

http://milesobrien.wordpress.com/200...cool-about-it/
Seconded. It's an excellent read.

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02-13-2009, 02:00 PM
  #145
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Originally Posted by bflohockeygirl View Post
No. Names are trickling in, I think as families confirm that their loved ones were aboard.

TBN is updating a list here.
So ****ing sad. The last 3 really got to me for various reasons: soon to be married, family trip with high school children, attending a wedding... Not that any one life has more value than another, but the write-ups just hit me in the gut.

Just awful.

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02-13-2009, 02:06 PM
  #146
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Buffaloed View Post
There have been issues with improper use of the de-icing system on that model:
http://www.aviation.ca/content/view/3231/118/

It could have just as likely been wind shear or a dozen other things. I won't fly on turbo props anymore after a crazy flight under similar conditions. At one point the flight attendant told us all to move to the back of the plane so the pilot could control it better.
What a tragedy. I'm dreading the release of the passenger list.
I'm not sure weight distribution issue on a single flight indicts all turboprops.
I've flown on the Dash 8 as well, but I don't fly enough to know much about anything.

Don't turbo-props in general have a better glide ratio than jets (i.e., distance traveled per unit altitude drop with the engines out), or do I have that backwards?

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02-13-2009, 02:06 PM
  #147
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Absolutely sad. Thoughts and prayers to all who knew someone.

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02-13-2009, 02:10 PM
  #148
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Originally Posted by BikeGiftingMan View Post
So ****ing sad. The last 3 really got to me for various reasons: soon to be married, family trip with high school children, attending a wedding... Not that any one life has more value than another, but the write-ups just hit me in the gut.

Just awful.
My brother is a groomsman in that wedding and called me to tell me about that. Just heartbreaking.

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02-13-2009, 02:14 PM
  #149
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Originally Posted by Juni View Post
This isn't receiving as much UK media interest as maybe some other crashes have but because of my Buffalo-biased sporting sentiments (and desire to live there, be that mad given its reputation elsewhere) this is making me really sad and worried. Simply praying that everyone here is fine, extending that to their families and friends and hoping beyond anything that nobody is affected by this in terms of loss.

Keep strong Buffalo.
I feel the same way as you do. I live in Switzerland but I've been a huge Sabres fan for a couple of years now. Briere, Dumont and Tallinder playing for my favorite Swiss team during the lockout brought Buffalo to my attention. It's been my desire for quite some time to live in the BUF area for some time in my life, just to be able to attend Sabres games.

Having a huge interest in aviation too, this crash really shocked me. I've flown a couple of times on the Dash Q400, the type that crashed in Clarence, but always felt quite confortable. I was also worried about a Colgan Air Pilot who I know from a aviation board.
Now I don't want to speculate on any of the possible causes leading to the crash, I think it's better to wait and see what the investigations bring to light.

I send out all my condolences to those affected by this terrible crash! I hope Buffalo can rebound and the players show off their hearts in today's game!

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02-13-2009, 02:18 PM
  #150
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Originally Posted by Buffaloed View Post
There have been issues with improper use of the de-icing system on that model:
http://www.aviation.ca/content/view/3231/118/
The deicing systems on a turboprop plane are much more difficult to use than on a jet airplane. The right timing to use these de-icing systems are crucial.

Quote:
At one point the flight attendant told us all to move to the back of the plane so the pilot could control it better.
This is often done in order to balance the weight of the airplane as a couple hunderd pounds can sometimes cause a light aircraft such as the DHC 8-400 to be imbalanced.

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