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#55 -- Flyers at Rangers -- February 15, 2009 -- 12:30 PM (ET)

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02-15-2009, 11:33 PM
  #826
Jester
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Originally Posted by BobbyClarkeFan16 View Post
...better than a pessimist... lol. With that being said though, I can only think of one other team that rolls three lines successfully - Boston.
This isn't really like being a pessimist, and we most certainly do not "roll three lines." As we get down towards the end of the season I wouldn't be shocked to see Carter and Richards out there for 24-25 a night on a regular basis (which I think is too much). It's just difficult to do, especially if you have two lines you really want out there.

And, ultimately, your system is not going to keep spitting out players to field a cheap "offensive" third line...thus why you're going to see the distribution lead to the 2-1-1, there just aren't enough good offensive players to go around the league.

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Originally Posted by Dig Out Your Soul View Post
I have no problem with Renney as a coach. Personnel is their number one problem in my opinion, I meant to say that winning the next two games shouldn't save his job if it's on the line.
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Originally Posted by FireStevensDotCom View Post
its looking like some players on that team have started to tune him out. I was shocked by the lack of fire, passion and the lack of willingness to compete today from the Rangers.
That lockerroom is more then likely a mess, and they are talkin about bringing in Avery? I dont know man.
I think they have to win the next 2 games. if they lose tomorrow it wouldnt shock me if hes gone.
They're a playoff team because there isn't a single team in the East outside of Boston without some significant question mark somewhere. With someone who can light a fire under their ass out on the ice, it'll make a big difference. I mean, honestly, look at the guys on that team...who is going to really get in anyone's face? Who is the go out there and "make a statement" type of guy?

We have a few of those guys, so we sort of take it for granted amidst the problems we do have. One thing you do know, is we have those guys that will get in someone's face, go lay a huge hit or fight, etc.

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02-15-2009, 11:44 PM
  #827
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
This isn't really like being a pessimist, and we most certainly do not "roll three lines." As we get down towards the end of the season I wouldn't be shocked to see Carter and Richards out there for 24-25 a night on a regular basis (which I think is too much). It's just difficult to do, especially if you have two lines you really want out there.

And, ultimately, your system is not going to keep spitting out players to field a cheap "offensive" third line...thus why you're going to see the distribution lead to the 2-1-1, there just aren't enough good offensive players to go around the league.





They're a playoff team because there isn't a single team in the East outside of Boston without some significant question mark somewhere. With someone who can light a fire under their ass out on the ice, it'll make a big difference. I mean, honestly, look at the guys on that team...who is going to really get in anyone's face? Who is the go out there and "make a statement" type of guy?

We have a few of those guys, so we sort of take it for granted amidst the problems we do have. One thing you do know, is we have those guys that will get in someone's face, go lay a huge hit or fight, etc.
Voros can do it probably but hes been such a offensive liability for them since November they have been scratching him most nights. having him and Orr out there together probably wouldnt be the best idea.
I hear what you are saying about that though, and I do agree. Maybe I am wrong about this but they have to get some other things sorted out first. Is everyone on the same page in that lockerroom? how much longer is Renney around.

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02-16-2009, 12:30 AM
  #828
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Originally Posted by FireStevensDotCom View Post
Voros can do it probably but hes been such a offensive liability for them since November they have been scratching him most nights. having him and Orr out there together probably wouldnt be the best idea.
I hear what you are saying about that though, and I do agree. Maybe I am wrong about this but they have to get some other things sorted out first. Is everyone on the same page in that lockerroom? how much longer is Renney around.
Based on today, not long.

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02-16-2009, 01:30 AM
  #829
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Mara injured his shoulder during the fight with Ash yesterday. There's your reason why they stopped throwing punches.

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02-16-2009, 01:35 AM
  #830
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The Rangers have a history of shoulder injuries during fights.

Former captain Jaromir Jagr hurt his right shoulder in a 2006 playoff loss at New Jersey when he threw a punch at Devils forward Scott Gomez, who is now in his second season with the Rangers.

Jagr eventually required surgery and needed until well into the 2006-07 season before he was back to full strength.
Good grief.

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02-16-2009, 05:37 AM
  #831
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Originally Posted by JXC View Post
Good grief.
that wasnt a fight. It was the playoffs and Jagr was on the PK

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02-16-2009, 07:13 AM
  #832
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Originally Posted by Hovercraft View Post
that wasnt a fight. It was the playoffs and Jagr was on the PK
Yea i remember that. He went to check Gomez and he awkwardly hit half Gomez, half boards.

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02-16-2009, 07:15 AM
  #833
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I love that the Pens are on the downward spiral they are on. Hopefully they don't pull a Mets and turn the season around like they did after Randolph was fired.

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02-16-2009, 07:45 AM
  #834
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I was hoping they waited another week to fire Therrien.

Renney is next.


And then John Stevens will be the longest-tenured head coach in the division.

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02-16-2009, 07:48 AM
  #835
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Originally Posted by Hextall89 View Post
I love that the Pens are on the downward spiral they are on. Hopefully they don't pull a Mets and turn the season around like they did after Randolph was fired.
And they still didnt make the playoffs.

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Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post
I was hoping they waited another week to fire Therrien.

Renney is next.


And then John Stevens will be the longest-tenured head coach in the division.
Thats crazy isnt it? Who would have thought that?

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02-16-2009, 11:40 AM
  #836
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Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post
I was hoping they waited another week to fire Therrien.
Amazing what happens when a bad coach has the talent sucked off his roster.

Quote:
Renney is next.
Amazing what a good coach with less talent can accomplish...and not accomplish. They certainly look like they're in the active death throes of a coach.

Quote:
And then John Stevens will be the longest-tenured head coach in the division.
Amazing what having talent can do for a not so good coach.

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Originally Posted by DeadPhish5858 View Post
Thats crazy isnt it? Who would have thought that?
Why it's silly to predict that a coach will be with an organization for an extended period of time. The turnover at that position (in all sports) is absurd.

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02-16-2009, 01:15 PM
  #837
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Originally Posted by DeadPhish5858 View Post
Yea i remember that. He went to check Gomez and he awkwardly hit half Gomez, half boards.
It was the most pathetic check I've ever seen. Whoever wrote that article should be fired for remembering that as a fight.

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02-16-2009, 01:48 PM
  #838
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Originally Posted by BobbyClarkeFan16 View Post
The only reason most teams don't roll three lines simply has to do with the talent they have. The Flyers have unmatched depth at forward. I don't think teams like Detroit or San Jose have the depth at forward that the Flyers have. That affords them to roll three lines. As for Richards and Carter playing 20+ minutes a night, why run them into the ground during the regular season? Why not balance their ice time so that once the playoffs begin, you can really run them when they still have relatively fresh legs. That's the reason for rolling three lines like that.



I don't buy the salary cap reason simply because the way the game is going now, players that are younger are going to get more of a chance than previous to fill in roles. And by that, you can have roll three good offensive lines and the cost isn't going to kill you if you manage the cap wisely. On top of it, as previously mentioned, the Flyers have ridiculous skill at the forward position. We have prospects waiting in the AHL (Matsumoto, Maroon, Nodl), Europe (Kempe), NCAA (JVR) and they aren't going to break the bank when they get here and they can all contribute offensively. We also have players who's contracts will expire soon (Gagne, Knuble) who will take a pay cut or will be allowed to walk because there is a replacement for them.



Really, what has Umberger done since being dealt? If Umberger were still in Philadelphia, where would he be playing? He'd be playing on the third or fourth line. The deal we made with Umberger brought us another key piece to the organization - Sbisa, a young defenseman who Mike Richards has said will eventually be the best player for the Flyers. If deals like that are made, I'm not worried. Once again, people forget that this franchise has an embarassment of riches at the forward position. Dealing Umberger wasn't out of a position of weakness. It was done from a position of strength. Umberger could be dealt because the forward depth the Flyers have allowed them to move him without harming the team any.

If we have to move a guy like Lupul this offseason, once again, we've got an embarassment of riches to replace Lupul. Same with Upshall. Same with Knuble. The only guy who might be difficult to replace would be Gagne and even then, I'm willing to bet that Simon takes a pay cut after his deal expires in order to stay. And if he doesn't, let someone else overpay for him.
What is your definition of "rolling three lines?"

Detroit, San Jose, Boston (when Bergeron was healthy) and New Jersey all do this in my opinion and have for the last several years. There are always going to be discrepancies in ice time cause of special teams, but at even strength, They all have the depth to do it.

Rolston was playing on the 3rd and Shanahan on the 4th line for NJ at times....

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02-16-2009, 01:50 PM
  #839
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Amazing what happens when a bad coach has the talent sucked off his roster.



Amazing what a good coach with less talent can accomplish...and not accomplish. They certainly look like they're in the active death throes of a coach.



Amazing what having talent can do for a not so good coach.



Why it's silly to predict that a coach will be with an organization for an extended period of time. The turnover at that position (in all sports) is absurd.

Very nice!

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02-16-2009, 01:52 PM
  #840
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Originally Posted by Dig Out Your Soul
I have no problem with Renney as a coach. Personnel is their number one problem in my opinion, I meant to say that winning the next two games shouldn't save his job if it's on the line.
I agree Dig....They are a perfect example of how adding talent to a roster doesnt always mean it is going to be able to play together.....I think one think Homer did well was consider the "chemistry" of the players he brought in. They all have known or know each other in some regard on or off the ice for the most part.

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02-16-2009, 02:02 PM
  #841
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Originally Posted by mikedifr View Post
What is your definition of "rolling three lines?"

Detroit, San Jose, Boston (when Bergeron was healthy) and New Jersey all do this in my opinion and have for the last several years. There are always going to be discrepancies in ice time cause of special teams, but at even strength, They all have the depth to do it.

Rolston was playing on the 3rd and Shanahan on the 4th line for NJ at times....
Meh, NJ in Madden has long had a legit checking line. When I think of "rolling" lines you're just sending 'em out one after another...almost no one does this.

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02-16-2009, 02:04 PM
  #842
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02-16-2009, 02:10 PM
  #843
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Originally Posted by mikedifr View Post
I agree Dig....They are a perfect example of how adding talent to a roster doesnt always mean it is going to be able to play together.....I think one think Homer did well was consider the "chemistry" of the players he brought in. They all have known or know each other in some regard on or off the ice for the most part.
What talent would you say the Rangers have? Besides Lunqvist and maybe Zherdev, the Rangers do not have the talent, IMO and simply just aren't that good.

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02-16-2009, 02:15 PM
  #844
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What talent would you say the Rangers have? Besides Lunqvist and maybe Zherdev, the Rangers do not have the talent, IMO and simply just aren't that good.
I guess they have guys who looked talented on other teams at some point (Drury, Gomez), or who were starting to decline before they got to NY but figured a resurgence might happen (Naslund, Redden).

They started off the year so well, I thought the roster turnover (getting away from the all-Czech era) would be beneficial. I guess not.

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02-16-2009, 02:17 PM
  #845
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dig Out Your Soul View Post
I guess they have guys who looked talented on other teams at some point (Drury, Gomez), or who were starting to decline before they got to NY but figured a resurgence might happen (Naslund, Redden).

They started off the year so well, I thought the roster turnover (getting away from the all-Czech era) would be beneficial. I guess not.
That team has nearly 26 million tied up in Gomez, Drury, Redden, and Rozsival and the cap is likely to stagnate for the next couple years.

They are going nowhere fast.

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02-16-2009, 02:19 PM
  #846
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Originally Posted by Dig Out Your Soul View Post
I guess they have guys who looked talented on other teams at some point (Drury, Gomez), or who were starting to decline before they got to NY but figured a resurgence might happen (Naslund, Redden).

They started off the year so well, I thought the roster turnover (getting away from the all-Czech era) would be beneficial. I guess not.
Drury has never been a point getter. Gomez is talented, i guess, but is really slumping this year and has never been a goal scorer. I think they were hoping that Naslund would replace Jagr. That's pretty much it as far as offensive depth. They got some hard working 3rd liners, but I just don't see the talent or game breaking players.

Top it off with a Redden and Roszival as your top defensemen?

Oy.

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02-16-2009, 02:20 PM
  #847
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That team has nearly 26 million tied up in Gomez, Drury, Redden, and Rozsival and the cap is likely to stagnate for the next couple years.

They are going nowhere fast.
Definitely. Unfortunately, I'm not taking much pleasure in it. The Rags don't matter to me. Pittsburgh dropping like a stone is hilarious, though. Now if only the Debs would hit a slump, all would be well.

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02-16-2009, 02:21 PM
  #848
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Originally Posted by Dig Out Your Soul View Post
Definitely. Unfortunately, I'm not taking much pleasure in it. The Rags don't matter to me. Pittsburgh dropping like a stone is hilarious, though. Now if only the Debs would hit a slump, all would be well.
Effing Devils.

Imagine what would happen if they actually picked up a #1 goalie around the trade deadline...


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02-16-2009, 02:22 PM
  #849
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Effing Devils.

Imagine what would happen if they actually picked up a #1 goalie around the trade deadline...

I'm kind of hoping Brodeur sucks when he gets back. I think we were starting to see some chinks in that armor the last couple seasons in games here and there, so hopefully the long layoff means he'll struggle to find his game.

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02-16-2009, 02:24 PM
  #850
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dig Out Your Soul View Post
Definitely. Unfortunately, I'm not taking much pleasure in it. The Rags don't matter to me. Pittsburgh dropping like a stone is hilarious, though. Now if only the Debs would hit a slump, all would be well.
Be good to see more of a Rangers-Flyers rivalry because I think the Rags do have a very strong fanbase unlike bandwagon-central in ****sburgh.

But yeah, they have made some really stupid decisions and I don't see them getting out of it any time soon.

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