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Bertuzzi Hearing Results and Suspension Talk-- ALL goes here.

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Old
03-10-2004, 08:36 PM
  #176
thestonedkoala
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Some interesting facts I found out:

Jeff Beukeboom played 45 games for the New York Rangers in the 1998-1999 season.

Matt Johnson's suspension game on November 23, 1998.

How could Johnson have ended Beukeboom's career if Beukeboom continued to play?

I'm not defending him, just clearing up some facts. In fact probably Johnson ended it by giving him one more concussion.

Here are some more interesting facts...Why would a guy with multiple concussions still fight? And could it have been May that finally placed Beukeboom out of the game if he gave him a concussion in a fight?

1/10/1999 NYR TAM Andrei Nazarov 1pd 01:17

2/4/1999 NYR VAN Brad May 3pd 02:23

Even more proof:

Lingering effects from two concussions last year have forced rugged New York Rangers defenseman Jeff Beukeboom into an early retirement.

Beukeboom, 34, sustained concussions on November 19 at Los Angeles and on February 12 against Carolina. He did not return to the lineup for the remainder of the season following the last injury and played in just 45 games.

Okay, so Matt Johnson did end up giving him one of the two concussions that effectively ended his career. Who was the other guy?


Last edited by thestonedkoala: 03-10-2004 at 08:43 PM.
 
Old
03-10-2004, 08:43 PM
  #177
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thestonedkoala
Some interesting facts I found out:

Jeff Beukeboom played 45 games for the New York Rangers in the 1998-1999 season.

Matt Johnson's suspension game on November 23, 1998.

How could Johnson have ended Beukeboom's career if Beukeboom continued to play?

I'm not defending him, just clearing up some facts. In fact probably Johnson ended it by giving him one more concussion.

Here are some more interesting facts...Why would a guy with multiple concussions still fight? And could it have been May that finally placed Beukeboom out of the game if he gave him a concussion in a fight?

1/10/1999 NYR TAM Andrei Nazarov 1pd 01:17

2/4/1999 NYR VAN Brad May 3pd 02:23
Let me ask you this. When and if Steve Moore comes back to play, will that, in your mind, make what Bertuzzi did any less vicious? Undoubtedly not.

The fact the Beukeboom played after Johnson's sucker punch doesn't make Johnson's actions any less repugnant.

Nice try, but it doesn't fly with me.

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03-10-2004, 08:45 PM
  #178
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Quote:
Originally Posted by battle axe
Let me ask you this. When and if Steve Moore comes back to play, will that, in your mind, make what Bertuzzi did any less vicious? Undoubtedly not.

The fact the Beukeboom played after Johnson's sucker punch doesn't make Johnson's actions any less repugnant.

Nice try, but it doesn't fly with me.
No, but let's say down the road Moore ends up getting slammed into the boards and another concussion. He is forced to retire because of this. Everyone will blame Bertuzzi then on Moore's forced retirement even though some other guy did it.

Most people think Johnson ended his career with the sucker punch, that wasn't the case. Beuke went on to play a few more games and looks like a few more fights before he got another concussion.

Johnson HELPED but he didn't end Beukeboom's career that night.

Here's an article that sounds a bit like the negativity that is now being directed at Bertuzzi:

http://www.usc.uwo.ca/gazette/1998/N...26/Sports3.htm

AGAIN:

I'm not defending the big oaf, he should've been kicked out that night, but when you say that Johnson ended his career, that's wrong.


Last edited by thestonedkoala: 03-10-2004 at 08:51 PM.
 
Old
03-10-2004, 08:51 PM
  #179
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thestonedkoala
No, but let's say down the road Moore ends up getting slammed into the boards and another concussion. He is forced to retire because of this. Everyone will blame Bertuzzi then on Moore's forced retirement even though some other guy did it.

Most people think Johnson ended his career with the sucker punch, that wasn't the case. Beuke went on to play a few more games and looks like a few more fights before he got another concussion.

Johnson HELPED but he didn't end Beukeboom's career that night.
Ok, now you have me confused. Are you saying that if someone knocks Moore out for good, that Bertuzzi shouldn't be blamed because he only 'helped' contribute to Moore's injuries, or are you saying that Bertuzzi should be blamed in that instance? Because to me, i think that both would/should be blamed for ending their careers, but from what I am trying to gather from your argument, you are saying Bertuzzi should be blamed, and Johnson shouldn't? I'm confused.

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03-10-2004, 08:53 PM
  #180
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No, I'm asking:

A couple years from now if Moore does come back and is injured (concussions snowball from what I heard) and has to retire, and everyone starts labeling Bertuzzi, saying he should've been thrown out of the league when he rocked Moore and that he ended Moore's career, what do you say?

I hate Johnson personally, the guy has his purpose but I'm looking at this from a guy researching the facts and the fact is Johnson didn't end his career. Helped yes but ended NO.

 
Old
03-10-2004, 08:56 PM
  #181
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hitman
If Bertuzzi doesn't get charged with assault, should we call the Vancouver police homers? I think they'd have to if they were the ones who pressed charges on McSorley.

I still think Bertuzzi should get 82 regular season games and all preseason and playoff games in between. But a great injustice will be done when he gets a suspesion like the rest of the season and the first round of the playoffs.
The greater injustice is all the stick infrations that get only 2,4, or 5 games.

I agree with you honestly. 82 gmaes next season... but realistically it will be 15 - 20 because he did not use the stick, and there is no conclusive proof he bulldogged Moore in the ice. You can argue that Bert simply fell on him.

So the decision has to be made on the facts of the event.

I know what you are saying... agree 100%.

I think the NHL needs to grow some balls. Don't make an example out of one man. Next season, any stick infraction like this or act of violence results in an automatic 30 game suspension.

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Old
03-10-2004, 09:00 PM
  #182
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thestonedkoala
No, I'm asking:

A couple years from now if Moore does come back and is injured (concussions snowball from what I heard) and has to retire, and everyone starts labeling Bertuzzi, saying he should've been thrown out of the league when he rocked Moore and that he ended Moore's career, what do you say?

I hate Johnson personally, the guy has his purpose but I'm looking at this from a guy researching the facts and the fact is Johnson didn't end his career. Helped yes but ended NO.
I think that there has been so much built up around this incident that there could be no other outcome other than blaming Bertuzzi if Moore were to get knocked out by another player.

In the case of Johnson, the only reason that people refer to him as the player that ended Beukeboom's career is because that is how the media portrays it. I honestly can't really remember all too much about that incident when it first happened, so I can't comment on whether or not Johnson actually ended his career.

So to answer your question, Bertuzzi will likely be blamed no matter what happens, and he probably should be. I guess the only thing left to see is how Bertuzzi responds to all of this. I think alot of the hatred towards Johnson stems from the fact that Johnson didn't show any remorse for what he did. I think that Bertuzzi has already tried to contact Moore, and it would go a long way, in my opinion, if Bertuzzi somehow turned this into some sort of positive through some sort of voluntary community service.

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03-10-2004, 09:03 PM
  #183
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Johnson refuses to talk about the Beukeboom incident to this day. I think he is sadden by the events and ashamed of what he did. The guy almost retired after hitting Beuke in the head.

The other case is this: You're compairing apples to oranges. Beuke isn't a very clean guy. He has had some questionable hits and had 5 concussions by the time he retired. Two of which came right before he retired, meaning the guy had to have been in some rough collisions.

Don't compare this to the Johnson case. This is his own case, Canuck fans can't go back and point at Johnson. Yes it might be nice because it is sort of similiar but the similiarties ends there.

 
Old
03-10-2004, 09:09 PM
  #184
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thestonedkoala
Johnson refuses to talk about the Beukeboom incident to this day. I think he is sadden by the events and ashamed of what he did. The guy almost retired after hitting Beuke in the head.

The other case is this: You're compairing apples to oranges. Beuke isn't a very clean guy. He has had some questionable hits and had 5 concussions by the time he retired. Two of which came right before he retired, meaning the guy had to have been in some rough collisions.

Don't compare this to the Johnson case. This is his own case, Canuck fans can't go back and point at Johnson. Yes it might be nice because it is sort of similiar but the similiarties ends there.
Well saying that Beukeboom wasn't a very clean player is totally rationalizing what Johnson did, and I would advise against doing that. It seems as though you are almost excusing what Johnson did because Beukeboom wasn't a saint. It doesn't matter.

As far as Johnson feeling really bad, Beukeboom said in a recent article that Johnson never apologized after the incident, and gave a forced apology well after, when they were stuck together at some sort of league meeting. So that doesn't seem like Johnson felt too remorseful about it.

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03-10-2004, 09:11 PM
  #185
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For those of you that missed it, the Canucks just held a press conference where Bertuzzi apologized to Moore, Moore's family, the Canucks' organization, his teammates, and his kids. He cried the whole time.

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03-10-2004, 09:12 PM
  #186
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shane
Fors those of you that missed it, the Canucks just held a press conference where Bertuzzi apologized to Moore, Moore's family, the Canucks' organiztion, his teammates, and his kids. He cried the whole time.
I can't believe I saw Brian Burke cry...

BTW, he apologized to the fans and all the kids who watch him and said... I am not a mean spirited person and began bawling.

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03-10-2004, 09:13 PM
  #187
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Johnson almost retired after hitting Beukeboom in the head. Beukeboom told Johnson to play in the game. We don't know the other side of the story, like this case.

I'm just telling you don't compare apples to oranges...

Moore is a completely different player from Beukeboom and that's what they have too look at. EVERYTHING. What was going on in that game, that is where Bertuzzi might have some luck because the Avs were running up the score.

But the thing is, Beukeboom's hit came in the same game as he was doing dirty plays. Moore's hit came a couple games after a questionable hit on Nazzy.

Johnson should've been thrown, McSorley was thrown, Bertuzzi should be given in between and that's a year.


Last edited by thestonedkoala: 03-10-2004 at 09:18 PM.
 
Old
03-10-2004, 09:14 PM
  #188
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Bertuzzi comments...

It probably deserves its own thread, but Sportsnet just showed footage of Bertuzzi facing the media. Incredibly emotional, broke down several times, apologizing to Moore, his team, and the fans of the Canucks and hockey, as well as any kids that follow hockey and saw what he did. Extremely remorseful.

I've said all along that I feel that the suspension should be quite harsh, and that I wasn't against the police viewing the case. Of course I still believe that. However, I also said early in that I did not think that this action was that of a monster or a bad guy. Still believe that as well. I hope he gets a long suspension, and I hope that once its done he's allowed to continue with his career and life without too much of this hanging over him.

Let him serve his time, and move on.

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Old
03-10-2004, 09:16 PM
  #189
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Well, hmmm...What do we do now?

 
Old
03-10-2004, 09:19 PM
  #190
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shane
Fors those of you that missed it, the Canucks just held a press conference where Bertuzzi apologized to Moore, Moore's family, the Canucks' organiztion, his teammates, and his kids. He cried the whole time.
He was incredibly sincere, and he was very emotional. I just wish people would keep things in perspective, he made a mistake, he'll get his punishment, and thats that. People are out here calling him Evil, and a Bad Human Being, I feel sorry for you if you've said that, because honestly, the media controls your opinions completely.

I do not in anyway condone his actions, but I, and everyone on this forum have made mistakes they regret, the problem with Bertuzzi's mistake was that it was broadcasted in the public eye, on national television. He deserves his suspension, he deserves his punishment, but he doesn't deserve these slanderous remarks he's facing from every direction he turns, People make mistakes, they recover, we move on.

The media feasts on things like this, and the media could care less about Steve Moore's condition, they care about what aspect of this story they're going to pump out now. I understand the media's job is to report these things, and analyze these things, they are an important tool in society, however the media nowadays is all about ratings and readers. No one wants to read anyone defend Bertuzzi, or support Bertuzzi as a player, everyone wants to read people ripping into Bertuzzi, the Canucks organisation, and hockey as a whole. Its important to read, and listen to the media with an objective mind, and read and listen to it, but not to let it influence your opinion on the situation.

Todd is facing a difficult situation, and Steve Moore is facing an even tougher situation, Todd acknowledge's his mistake, and he's not a thug like some of you call him, I just can't emphasize enough the fact that everyone makes msitakes, and that this was a mistake, a result of bad judgment, and poor decision making.

People deserve second chances, and if they didn't deserve second chances, none of us would be free as citizens, because we'd all be in jail. I understand the outrage towards his actions, but people are acting like he's a murderer, or a criminal of some sort. If you watch that Press Conference, you'll see a man who knows he screwed up, and is ready to pay the price, what more can you ask from a human being?

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03-10-2004, 09:34 PM
  #191
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Going to go ahead and close this one, since someone made another new thread on the press conference and all these threads are basically the same anyway.

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