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No More Kaberle To PHI

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Old
02-17-2009, 08:34 PM
  #1
twenty2
 
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No More Kaberle To PHI

Please, everyone please stop making Kaberle to Philadelphia proposals. I will list the various things that bring us to the same conclusion time after time: Kaberle will not be coming to the Flyers.

1. The Flyers have plenty of puck moving defensemen. Timonen, Coburn, Carle, and yes, even the dreaded Randy Jones all make Kaberle redundant. Of course if Carle or Jones was upgraded to Kaberle there might be room for discussion. Still no proposals have mentioned either of those younger defenders going to Toronto as far as I've seen. On top of that, even if the Flyers did want to upgrade for a good starting defenseman with a decent contract they would be looking more for one that can shut opposing players down instead of helping put points on the board. Toronto fans may or may not be aware that our powerplay is pretty good already.

2. The Flyers have salary cap issues as well as a bunch of NHL caliber defenders. Proposals like JVR + 1st in 09 do not work if the Flyers can't even afford Kaberle. What's even more sad is that's not even the worst part of that proposal.

3. Danny Briere is a POINT PER GAME PLAYER. Briere is also $6.5m in cap hit, not $10.0m a season in cap hit. How is he a salary dump? So this salary dump + whatever high end prospect you can think of + a first is worth Kaberle? We are talking about the player with the most playoff goals since the lockout. Why would we trade our BEST playoff weapon in a trade deadline deal that's supposed to make us better going into the playoffs? Ignore the fact that he has an NMC and won't waive it to go to Toronto. Then in the trade thread Toronto fans argue over whether or not they even want to take on Briere's contract while trying to dump Kaberle's contract on us. We don't want him or a $4m+ cap hit on a defender if his name isn't Jay Bouwmeester. For Philly it's moving from one player who shouldn't be seen as a salary dump to a player that the Flyers don't need. What player really makes Philadelphia a better team...Briere or Kaberle? For $2.5m more I'll take my chances with Briere. And even if I do part with him for Kaberle Toronto is certainly not getting more on top of that.

4. The entire Carter + 1st to TOR for Kaberle is overblown. Okay it was offered and Kaberle rejected. It took forever for Leafs fans to realize that the inverse Kaberle + 1st for Carter wasn't going to work. Since then it has been baby steps with everything on Philadelphia that the Flyers want to keep being offered for Kaberle. You have to remember that when Carter + 1st was offered either Carter or Umberger was going to go at the end of the season. Jeff by February hadn't really clicked yet in the NHL either. He had a 53 point season last year, but many forget he didn't really turn it on til late. Since then he's gained a LOT more value. So at the time it was offered Carter wasn't anywhere near his current value, he or umberger was going to get moved anyway, and Philadelphia needed a puck moving defender. Now with Kaberle a year older with a year less left on his contract and with the Flyers having none of the issues they had when Carter was supposedly offered, why in God's name would they send players/prospects/picks as valuable as Briere, Carter, Hartnell, JVR, Giroux, 1st rounders, etc the other way?


OTHER OUTSTANDING ISSUES:
1. We are quite alright with the contracts of Briere, Gagne, and Hartnell.

2. Lupul is NOT worthless. He's a top two winger on at least 8 NHL teams based on this years stats. He puts up plenty of goals, is a 50 point+ player, and is signed long term. His $4.25m cap hit is more than some people would like to pay, but how many teams could desperately use a 50 point winger? Also it's not like he's 35. He was just drafted. Once again players don't start declining the day they wear an NHL jersey.

3. Jones is an offensive defenseman for $2.7m a season in cap hit. You don't want him that's too bad. There's a huge demand for what Jones brings to the table. He's sloppy at times, but nobody can question his offensive capabilities.

4. JVR and Giroux (likely add Parent and Sbisa) aren't going away unless a Biron upgrade or a top notch blueliner is coming back to Philadelphia with a contract that's not up at the end of this season. Even then JVR likely gets moved before Giroux.

5. The Flyers don't want any big name offensive contracts like St. Louis and Lecavalier. We just don't want nor need them.



I'm sure I'm missing some others, but that's the gist of it. IT'S OVER TORONTO. YOU HAD YOUR CHANCE. LEAVE US ALONE.

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Old
02-17-2009, 08:36 PM
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Kaberle to PHI for Giroux, Briere, Lupul, JVR, Jones, Gagne and Hartnell




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Old
02-17-2009, 08:38 PM
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How bout dat Kubina den?

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Old
02-17-2009, 08:40 PM
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It's a reasonable enough post, but couldn't you have put this in the Phi/Tor thread that sparked this?

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Old
02-17-2009, 08:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grabo84 View Post
It's a reasonable enough post, but couldn't you have put this in the Phi/Tor thread that sparked this?
You mean all 30 or 40 that popped up in the last 2 months?

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02-17-2009, 08:44 PM
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Fabulous post, and I agree 100%

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Old
02-17-2009, 08:46 PM
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How bout dat Kubina den?
wat about Dmitri Vorobiev

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Old
02-17-2009, 08:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twenty2 View Post
You mean all 30 or 40 that popped up in the last 2 months?
There hasn't been 30-40 Kaberle to Philly threads in the last 2 months.

This is obviously the thread that sparked this.

http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=608851

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Old
02-17-2009, 08:50 PM
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Grabo, just because you've only seen one doesn't mean that only one exists. If I only put it in a response to that thread then those Toronto fans that don't see it may be foolish enough to do the same thing.

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02-17-2009, 08:53 PM
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wat about Dmitri Vorobiev
He's gone mane, gone. Get over it.

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Old
02-17-2009, 08:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twenty2 View Post
Grabo, just because you've only seen one doesn't mean that only one exists. If I only put it in a response to that thread then those Toronto fans that don't see it may be foolish enough to do the same thing.
http://hfboards.com/search.php?searchid=6859868

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Old
02-17-2009, 08:55 PM
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Pronger for JVR, Lupul and Jones

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Old
02-17-2009, 08:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twenty2 View Post
Grabo, just because you've only seen one doesn't mean that only one exists. If I only put it in a response to that thread then those Toronto fans that don't see it may be foolish enough to do the same thing.
I never said only one exists.

I don't mind people posting threads like this, Viqsi did a similar one for Columbus. I don't agree with everything you wrote - I can pretty much guarantee that Jones doesn't have significant value around the league. But really, my issue is that you make it out like only Toronto fans are ever offering ridiculous proposals. Why not just outline what you think the flyers need, in a neutral tone? I'd get a lot more out of that.

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Old
02-17-2009, 09:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grabo84 View Post
But really, my issue is that you make it out like only Toronto fans are ever offering ridiculous proposals. Why not just outline what you think the flyers need, in a neutral tone? I'd get a lot more out of that.
Well...I probably could've been a bit nicer. I would go back and change it but that's a massive effort. Besides everyone understands it the way it is. No need to change it.

What the Flyers need:
1. Goaltending Upgrade To Biron
2. Defensive Upgrades That Are Defensively Solid

One will likely happen at the deadline. The other will likely happen during the offseason if at all. Good luck.

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02-17-2009, 09:03 PM
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Thanks, Bobby.




Seriously, good post. Agreed on all fronts.

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Old
02-17-2009, 09:09 PM
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grabo84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twenty2 View Post
Well...I probably could've been a bit nicer. I would go back and change it but that's a massive effort. Besides everyone understands it the way it is. No need to change it.

What the Flyers need:
1. Goaltending Upgrade To Biron
2. Defensive Upgrades That Are Defensively Solid

One will likely happen at the deadline. The other will likely happen during the offseason if at all. Good luck.
It wasn't a big deal to me, I just figured I'd point that out. I appreciate a good long post, so don't take what I said too critically.

I assume by #2 you mean a shutdown d-man type? Morris or somebody like that might be a good fit.

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Old
02-17-2009, 09:11 PM
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Actually a lot of Flyers fans are looking pretty hard at Kubina I believe though I'm sure we all are willing to give up quite a bit for a signed Bouwmeester.

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Old
02-17-2009, 09:17 PM
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I think Kubina would have been a better fit personally.

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02-17-2009, 10:44 PM
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I could understand how those Leafs fans could be confused that Philly would be interested in Kaberle, seeing as they traded for him last year but he didn't waive his NTC. Where would the idea of a Kaberle to Philly trade possibly be coming from. I think that Kubina would also make a lot more sense from Philly standpoint, and a player like Giroux or Jones would be coming back to Toronto's end.

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Old
02-17-2009, 10:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chef223 View Post
I could understand how those Leafs fans could be confused that Philly would be interested in Kaberle, seeing as they traded for him last year but he didn't waive his NTC. Where would the idea of a Kaberle to Philly trade possibly be coming from. I think that Kubina would also make a lot more sense from Philly standpoint, and a player like Giroux or Jones would be coming back to Toronto's end.
Sorry but Giroux wont even be going for J BO. he is cheaper the JVR would be and is contributing now. Giroux is untouchable.

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Old
02-17-2009, 10:48 PM
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Alright I'm sure the Leafs would take JVR

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Old
02-17-2009, 10:48 PM
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Considering Burke on VS basically said Kaberle wasn't going to be moved...I think most Kaberle proposals could be done with. But that won't stop HFboards from coming up with more of them...

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Old
02-17-2009, 11:02 PM
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Originally Posted by LoveDaSlug View Post
Considering Burke on VS basically said Kaberle wasn't going to be moved...I think most Kaberle proposals could be done with. But that won't stop HFboards from coming up with more of them...
well kaberle sent a list of 10 teams he would be willing to waive his NTC to... does that mean he'll definetely get traded ..no.. but it definetly means theres a possibility because burke wouldnt have asked for one if he wasnt considering the option of trading kaberle.. but yes i heard burke say hes not going to trade kaberle if an offer doesnt make sense for the leafs because he would take all offseason trying to replace him

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02-17-2009, 11:11 PM
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Carter and a 1st, book it.

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Old
02-17-2009, 11:20 PM
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Carter and a 1st, book it.
you're sadistic, you know that?

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