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Will Sundin Get Booed?

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Old
02-19-2009, 02:35 AM
  #101
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grown men will act like children on saturday. something in the water besides their own tears?

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Old
02-19-2009, 02:41 AM
  #102
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Originally Posted by CamBam View Post

Face it, they can't draft,

I hope they can turn it around. Toronto fans deserve a team to be proud of, but having the FO tell it's fans that Antropov and Ponikorovsky(sp?) are the future(ala 2004) is a complete farce.
It's really hard to draft a lot of talent when you had an incompetent GM that trades away your high picks every year. In the pre-cap era, it was entirely possible to field a team of free agents or build through trades, so it wasn't as much of a necessity. It's going to take some time to replenish the system, but there are some good players in it now. We had one of our best drafts ever last year. I suppose the last elite talent we developed was Kaberle ( I use the term elite while being mindful of its various connotations and that someone will probably jump on me for saying that he's elite).

And secondly, I don't see how Burke or anyone is trying to pull the wool over our eyes by telling us that Antropov is the future of our franchise. He even publicly stated last week that Antropov hasn't earned an extension. Let's face it, the Leafs have never rebuild their franchise in all their years of existence. Not properly or thoroughly anyway. This is a complete tear down and no one is safe, certainly not someone like Antropov who was featured in a rumour to the Pens yesterday. We're heading in the right direction, and trading guys such as Sundin would have sped up that process. Now, you can understand why some of us are so bitter about the fact he lied/changed his mind about why he didn't move his NTC.

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02-19-2009, 02:50 AM
  #103
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Originally Posted by Chimp View Post
As a non-Maple fan, it's hard to understand why he stayed basically his entire career there. He gave it all and gets mocked the first opportunity "the fans" get. What a waste of a great player to play for so long for Toronto Maple Leafs. Imagine his career if he played for a team with good management and a winning culture.
Perhaps if you get the chance, you should ask Sundin why he was so incredibly stupid to waste his prime in this city that didn't "deserve" him. Maybe it's because we actually did field some pretty good teams while he was here? Maybe it's the fact we paid him $70 million to play here?

I love this idea that we tricked him somehow into staying here and that he is noble and self-sacrificing for doing so. Well, he was more then welcome to walk as a free agent. Is it possible then that he actually enjoyed being a Maple Leaf and even thought it might not beyond the realm of possibility that he could win a Cup here? Maybe he didn't think his teammates were as unskilled as you seem to think they were?

Nobody forced him to stay here and endure all of this torture. He loved being a Maple Leaf and he obviously thought they had a better chance at winning than you did. Blame Mats Sundin for decreasing his odds at a Cup by sticking with a losing team, not the Leafs. Now he obviously thinks the Vancouver Canucks are possible contenders, good for him. He has his opportunity to show everyone that he is capable of leading a superior team to a Cup. We'll see if he pulls it off.

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02-19-2009, 02:54 AM
  #104
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Originally Posted by ccliquer View Post
Perhaps if you get the chance, you should ask Sundin why he was so incredibly stupid to waste his prime in this city that didn't "deserve" him. Maybe it's because we actually did field some pretty good teams while he was here? Maybe it's the fact we paid him $70 million to play here?

I love this idea that we tricked him somehow into staying here and that he is noble and self-sacrificing for doing so. Well, he was more then welcome to walk as a free agent. Is it possible then that he actually enjoyed being a Maple Leaf and even thought it might not beyond the realm of possibility that he could win a Cup here? Maybe he didn't think his teammates were as unskilled as you seem to think they were?

Nobody forced him to stay here and endure all of this torture. He loved being a Maple Leaf and he obviously thought they had a better chance at winning than you did. Blame Mats Sundin for decreasing his odds at a Cup by sticking with a losing team, not the Leafs. Now he obviously thinks the Vancouver Canucks are possible contenders, good for him. He has his opportunity to show everyone that he is capable of leading a superior team to a Cup. We'll see if he pulls it off.
I agree with you. And now it's not even worth water to some that he stayed in the trenches for over a decade with you.

Some Maple "fans" don't deserve him. The true Maple fans do. If he gets booed, it's a disgrace.


Last edited by Chimp: 02-19-2009 at 08:00 AM.
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Old
02-19-2009, 03:05 AM
  #105
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Originally Posted by Chimp View Post
I agree with you. And now it's not even worth water that he stayed in the trenches for over a decade with you.

Some Maple "fans" don't deserve him. The true fans do. If he gets booed, it's a disgrace.
If it helps, there are plenty like me who are still disappointed in how things went down, but wouldn't boo him.

I'm still vocal about what I perceive to be a certain hypocrisy in how he acted, but I appreciate everything he's done while he was here. I've said that about 100 times tonight, if you want to search my post history. I just don't like how some here are completely generalizing a fanbase (both here and on the Leafs board). So if 19 000 people decide to boo, it is suddenly representative of how I feel and think as an individual? I don't think so. I don't think Leaf fans should be castigated over the acts of a few. Some of us are plenty level-headed and mature, but I have a feeling after Saturday's game we're just going to be insulted and told how we never deserve a player like Mats ever again, blah, blah, blah.

I'm not trying to put the blame on you, but that tends to be the trend around these parts.

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Old
02-19-2009, 03:23 AM
  #106
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I lost every respect for the guy after all those lies to Maple Leafs and everybody else. "I wanna win SC, Im not after the money.", yeah, really Greedy b*****d, he deserves booing all the way.

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02-19-2009, 04:03 AM
  #107
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Originally Posted by Roland Gilead View Post
I lost every respect for the guy after all those lies to Maple Leafs and everybody else. "I wanna win SC, Im not after the money.", yeah, really Greedy b*****d, he deserves booing all the way.
When did he say he wasn't after money? You have a link? Every player is after money, do you think they play only for the love of the game?

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02-19-2009, 05:09 AM
  #108
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I actually hate booing. Every time. It's very very lame and childish and I could only hope people realize that at some time.

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02-19-2009, 05:11 AM
  #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ccliquer View Post
Perhaps if you get the chance, you should ask Sundin why he was so incredibly stupid to waste his prime in this city that didn't "deserve" him. Maybe it's because we actually did field some pretty good teams while he was here? Maybe it's the fact we paid him $70 million to play here?

I love this idea that we tricked him somehow into staying here and that he is noble and self-sacrificing for doing so. Well, he was more then welcome to walk as a free agent. Is it possible then that he actually enjoyed being a Maple Leaf and even thought it might not beyond the realm of possibility that he could win a Cup here? Maybe he didn't think his teammates were as unskilled as you seem to think they were?

Nobody forced him to stay here and endure all of this torture. He loved being a Maple Leaf and he obviously thought they had a better chance at winning than you did. Blame Mats Sundin for decreasing his odds at a Cup by sticking with a losing team, not the Leafs. Now he obviously thinks the Vancouver Canucks are possible contenders, good for him. He has his opportunity to show everyone that he is capable of leading a superior team to a Cup. We'll see if he pulls it off.
Obviously he loved playing for Toronto. The city loved him and he loved the city, but when the city wants him out... the city doesnt want him back, of course he wants out of there.

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Old
02-19-2009, 05:34 AM
  #110
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What city? Since when does the management of Toronto Maple Leafs represent the city of Toronto? Last time I check the majority shareholders of MLSE is the Ontario Teacher's Pension Fund....

That mess of underfunded accrued benefits obligations, horrible risk hedging, and plain bad planned asset management DOES NOT represent the fans.

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Old
02-19-2009, 05:47 AM
  #111
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Originally Posted by Topgoon View Post
What city? Since when does the management of Toronto Maple Leafs represent the city of Toronto? Last time I check the majority shareholders of MLSE is the Ontario Teacher's Pension Fund....

That mess of underfunded accrued benefits obligations, horrible risk hedging, and plain bad planned asset management DOES NOT represent the fans.
Yeah I guess you want me to look stupid on absolute ****. To me it looked like the fans wanted him out aswell.

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Old
02-19-2009, 06:05 AM
  #112
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I can't see why they would boo him. What? Boo him because he wasnt willing to waive his trade clause? Boo him for waht? Brian Burke didn't want to sign him, he wanted to stay in T.O. Nothing more.

Quote:
I lost every respect for the guy after all those lies to Maple Leafs and everybody else. "I wanna win SC, Im not after the money.", yeah, really Greedy b*****d, he deserves booing all the way.
How did he lie to the Leafs? Please explain.

Wow, yea, they will probably boo him. Leafs fans for ya. making things up as they go along. I bet they are still pissy pissy because he didn't allow the Leafs to use him as a tradeable asset so they got nothing for him.

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Old
02-19-2009, 06:08 AM
  #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ccliquer View Post
Perhaps if you get the chance, you should ask Sundin why he was so incredibly stupid to waste his prime in this city that didn't "deserve" him. Maybe it's because we actually did field some pretty good teams while he was here? Maybe it's the fact we paid him $70 million to play here?

I love this idea that we tricked him somehow into staying here and that he is noble and self-sacrificing for doing so. Well, he was more then welcome to walk as a free agent. Is it possible then that he actually enjoyed being a Maple Leaf and even thought it might not beyond the realm of possibility that he could win a Cup here? Maybe he didn't think his teammates were as unskilled as you seem to think they were?

Nobody forced him to stay here and endure all of this torture. He loved being a Maple Leaf and he obviously thought they had a better chance at winning than you did. Blame Mats Sundin for decreasing his odds at a Cup by sticking with a losing team, not the Leafs. Now he obviously thinks the Vancouver Canucks are possible contenders, good for him. He has his opportunity to show everyone that he is capable of leading a superior team to a Cup. We'll see if he pulls it off.
Quote:
Now he obviously thinks the Vancouver Canucks are possible contenders, good for him. He has his opportunity to show everyone that he is capable of leading a superior team to a Cup. We'll see if he pulls it off.
So what is now? your booing him because he signed with Vancouver and not Detroit? WEll that doesn't make sense. Just a bunch of bitter leaf fans using excuses to hate on Sundin.

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Old
02-19-2009, 07:22 AM
  #114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AgentNaslund View Post
Boo him because he wasnt willing to waive his trade clause?
Hrmm.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mats Sundin
''We looked at every different angle in terms of what my position has been and the situation of where I am at this stage of my career and all of that,'' said Sundin. ''I think at the end, I followed my heart and I just haven't felt the desire to go to any other team or play for any other team at this point.''
Aww, his heart!

http://www.tsn.ca/tradecentre/story/?id=230541

I guess the desire to go to any other team developed in the 6 weeks afterwards.

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Old
02-19-2009, 07:24 AM
  #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NyQuil View Post
Hrmm.



Aww, his heart!

http://www.tsn.ca/tradecentre/story/?id=230541

I guess the desire to go to any other team developed in the 6 weeks afterwards.

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02-19-2009, 07:26 AM
  #116
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Originally Posted by vippe View Post
We all know your hero can do no wrong.

I heard his tears can cure herpes, which was discovered every time the Leafs missed the playoffs.

He had a chance to end his career with some class, but instead he goes out like Brett Favre.

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Old
02-19-2009, 07:29 AM
  #117
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If Toronto fans are worthy of respect around the league, they'll refrain from booing a player that played many years of amazing hockey for them. If they are completely without class, they'll boo him.

We'll have our answer to that on Saturday, won't we?

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02-19-2009, 07:30 AM
  #118
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Originally Posted by Bougieman View Post
If Toronto fans are worthy of respect around the league, they'll refrain from booing a player that played many years of amazing hockey for them. If they are completely without class, they'll boo him.

We'll have our answer to that on Saturday, won't we?
I'm not sure why Canucks fans care so much.

Sundin is just a rental.

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02-19-2009, 07:33 AM
  #119
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They won't boo. Also nice to see all the Canuck fans sticking up for Sundin's actions last year. I'm sure you were feeling the same way at the time. And to the OP comparing the Toronto fans booing Gretzky and Orr to this; have you ever watched much hockey? Fans boo opposing team's players all of the time, especially the great ones, it's an honor frankly. Nice way to start a thread by bating.

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02-19-2009, 07:41 AM
  #120
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I'm not sure why Canucks fans care so much.

Sundin is just a rental.
If you think about it, all players are rentals.

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Old
02-19-2009, 07:52 AM
  #121
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I'm amazed so many of you think that Toronto fans booing Sundin will be a travesty, and I'm no Toronto fan.

Sundin, apparently the beating heart of the Toronto Maple Leafs, could have provided a very nice return for a rebuilding team, but opted not to. Fine, that's his right. But that mixed with the hypocrisy of his rental quotes makes it at least understandably a bitter pill for many Leafs fans to swallow.

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Old
02-19-2009, 08:11 AM
  #122
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Sure, Sundin didn't have a fairy tale ending at Toronto, but it still baffles me how hated he is because of what he did or didn't do. Here you arguably have the best player Toronto has ever had, all time franchise scoring leader, who basically spends his entire career at the club even though they were never really a top team and now that has all been undone because he refused to waive his NTC-clause to "help" the team trade him to a team of their choosing? This loyalty thing, you see, it works both ways. Doesn't seem like the Toronto management, or fans for that matter, cared one bit about Sundins' future, how can you then, expect him to put the franchises' future before his own? Greedy much?

And I don't get the "Well, we paid him so and so much" argument, I mean it's not as though he couldn't have gotten the money elsewhere earlier in his career.

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Old
02-19-2009, 09:07 AM
  #123
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Originally Posted by vippe View Post
Yeah I guess you want me to look stupid on absolute ****. To me it looked like the fans wanted him out aswell.
I didn't want you to look stupid, I just wanted to let you know that it wasn't as one sided as you think. If my post came across as condesending or offensive, I apologize.

I'm pretty certain that fans were split around the 50/50 mark in terms of wanting sundin to retire in Toronto vs. trading him for big assets.

Granted, the Toronto media was really pushing for the trade. The potential returns were talked about consistently, and all focus was towards the fact that Sundin and co refused to waive their NTC/NMC, without ever really clarifying the nature of those contracts (how a significant portion of those contracts value IS the NTC/NMC). Can't blame them because that story sold. If it was anyone's fault for blowing the whole fiascal out of proportion, it is the people who decided to leak it to the media in the first place.

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Old
02-19-2009, 09:18 AM
  #124
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I'd be boo him if I were a Leaf fan.
He won the Leafs nothing.

Doug Gilmour only played 4 years in the playoffs with the Leafs and he still has more points than Sundin in the playoffs.
Then he leaves the Leafs at the end of the year who were in need of draft choices and could have gotten some if he would have waved his NTC.

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Old
02-19-2009, 09:22 AM
  #125
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Originally Posted by Pentothal View Post
Here you arguably have the best player Toronto has ever had, all time franchise scoring leader, who basically spends his entire career at the club even though they were never really a top team and now that has all been undone because he refused to waive his NTC-clause to "help" the team trade him to a team of their choosing?
Well, I think many Toronto (and non-Toronto) fans had Sundin as the defacto face of the franchise, and under that sort of scrutiny his actions were magnified greatly. If it wasn't someone who was as identifiable as the soul of the team, I'm thinking it'd be a complete non-issue.

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