HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Toronto Maple Leafs
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

London Free Press: No blockbuster announcements, but Burke says change is coming

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
02-20-2009, 09:28 AM
  #101
KapG
Registered User
 
KapG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,965
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inferno31 View Post
One Season does not a career make.. Theres a chance Schenn stops developing, and never gets any better. We have a good young NHL defenceman, but given the risk-benefit of the situation Hedman wins out every time in my mind.
man, I could say the same thing for Hedman, he could very well be a huge bust.

Also, personally....I don't see hedman standing up for his teammates like Schenn does.

I'd say there is probably a 5% chance hedman drops the gloves yesterday against boll after he ran pogge.

KapG is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
02-20-2009, 09:33 AM
  #102
EazyB97
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 27,943
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by KapG View Post
man, I could say the same thing for Hedman, he could very well be a huge bust.

Also, personally....I don't see hedman standing up for his teammates like Schenn does.

I'd say there is probably a 5% chance hedman drops the gloves yesterday against boll after he ran pogge.
He's responding to a post that just said Hedman could be a bust. Hedman probably wouldn't have went after Boll. He may have played the last few seconds of the first period better, not allowing that odd man rush and chipped in a few points though.

I'd take Tavares and Hedman over Schenn without question. Luke would be lumped into the 3-7 group (Kane, B. Schenn, Duchene, Cowen, MSP) if he were in this group. Even looking at last years draft, Schenn would be lucky to move up to 4th in that draft. He's still behind Stamkos, Doughty, Bogo. Hodgson, Pietro, Boedker and Filatov all have very high ceilings still as well. Luke's had a great year, but he hasn't been earth shattering. He's been solid defensively and a very good teammate. Looks great for a 19 year old, but it doesn't change the fact there are alot of other very good hockey players around his age.

EazyB97 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-20-2009, 09:38 AM
  #103
KapG
Registered User
 
KapG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,965
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by EazyB97 View Post
He's responding to a post that just said Hedman could be a bust. Hedman probably wouldn't have went after Boll. He may have played the last few seconds of the first period better, not allowing that odd man rush and chipped in a few points though.

I'd take Tavares and Hedman over Schenn without question. Luke would be lumped into the 3-7 group (Kane, B. Schenn, Duchene, Cowen, MSP) if he were in this group. Even looking at last years draft, Schenn would be lucky to move up to 4th in that draft. He's still behind Stamkos, Doughty, Bogo. Hodgson, Pietro, Boedker and Filatov all have very high ceilings still as well. Luke's had a great year, but he hasn't been earth shattering. He's been solid defensively and a very good teammate. Looks great for a 19 year old, but it doesn't change the fact there are alot of other very good hockey players around his age.

fair nuff, im just wondering why you would trade a player who is Captain material and is already playing top pair D minutes. For a player who hasn't even played a single game in the NHL?

KapG is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
02-20-2009, 09:39 AM
  #104
sangreale
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,064
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clip68 View Post
I think as a sign of good faith, Burke would count Turris and Carcillo as 2 first rounders, so just add 8 more and "he's on a plane".
Awww! You actually listened to what Burke said. Not fair!

sangreale is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-20-2009, 09:52 AM
  #105
EazyB97
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 27,943
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by KapG View Post
fair nuff, im just wondering why you would trade a player who is Captain material and is already playing top pair D minutes. For a player who hasn't even played a single game in the NHL?
Because the player your trading for has a much higher ceiling and you think he'll be a much better player in the long run. He might not be your captain, he may just be your best players for the next 15-20 years. That's the logic at least.

EazyB97 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-20-2009, 10:03 AM
  #106
Drew75
Registered User
 
Drew75's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,488
vCash: 500
I think a lot of people put too much value on flash - and not enough on substance. While I agree that Tavares & Hedman may have more of an offensive upside than Schenn, I don't believe you can build a team just around offensive talent alone. The complete package Schenn offers - while maybe not flashy - is unbelievable. He's one of the league leaders in hits, and that will only improve as he fills out. You can tell how much his team respects and adores him.

I think what Schenn brings is all of the intagibles that are often pushed aside for "offensive flash" in the eyes of fans.

How's Florida doing with Jaybo? He was touted similar to Hedman. Tavares is sometimes compared to Spezza ... would you build a team around him?

But what did Scott Stevens bring to NJ?

That's my opinion ...

Drew75 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-20-2009, 10:23 AM
  #107
EazyB97
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 27,943
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drew75 View Post
I think a lot of people put too much value on flash - and not enough on substance. While I agree that Tavares & Hedman may have more of an offensive upside than Schenn, I don't believe you can build a team just around offensive talent alone. The complete package Schenn offers - while maybe not flashy - is unbelievable. He's one of the league leaders in hits, and that will only improve as he fills out. You can tell how much his team respects and adores him.

I think what Schenn brings is all of the intagibles that are often pushed aside for "offensive flash" in the eyes of fans.

How's Florida doing with Jaybo? He was touted similar to Hedman. Tavares is sometimes compared to Spezza ... would you build a team around him?

But what did Scott Stevens bring to NJ?

That's my opinion ...
I get what you're saying, but Stevens was one of the leagues premier offensive d-men for a number of years, so he's not a great comparison. At best, a Regehr comparison for Schenn might be applicable.

I think this board has gone in two seperate ways. It's put way too much emphasis on heart or talent. You'll need both. Schenn's a great player, but if he's our best player, we are going to be in alot of trouble. You need a team players and heart and soul guys. He is one and he will likely be one of the best, but good teammates aren't that hard to acquire. On the flip side there is a belief that everyone needs to be a PPG player and a 45+ point d-man to make a top 6/top 4 in the NHL. Simply not true and not going to happen.

I like Schenn as a hockey player, he's solid defensively for a guy his age and I'm happy we have him. I just think his intangibles, like many other players, is being overrated. Hits and blocked shots mean very little if you're being beaten on a consistent basis (Finger's a good example). A player like Schenn isn't going to make a large impact unless he's on a strong team. He won't win games singlehandedly, I don't think so at least, I don't see a skillset that will allow him to dominate all that much. I can see that in other players though, like Tavares/Hedman.

EazyB97 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-20-2009, 10:49 AM
  #108
KLM-Line
Registered User
 
KLM-Line's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Munich
Country: Germany
Posts: 1,472
vCash: 176
The discussion is heading into the wrong direction. You don`t want either Schenn or Hedman. You should want `em both!
That`s the goal while rebuilding, right? So do we have anything that can help us to trade up (again) is more of a concern to me.

KLM-Line is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-20-2009, 11:16 AM
  #109
IWD
...
 
IWD's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Country: Spain
Posts: 5,044
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by sangreale View Post
Really? I think some Leaf fans would rush the Bastille.
Sorry, my bad, haha. I meant in the standings. 2nd overall pick. Funny enough, Bastille used to be my username on another Leaf board.

IWD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-20-2009, 11:37 AM
  #110
NoamHemsky
Registered User
 
NoamHemsky's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,895
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by RayzorIsDull View Post
Maybe Chicago is interested in one of the Leafs players and are offering up Kyle Beach.
that might make sense.

certainly would be a player that Burkie would spark Burkie's interest

NoamHemsky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-20-2009, 08:07 PM
  #111
Superstar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 2,592
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MSP4LYFE View Post
No offense to Schenn but he is not nearly good enough to even warrant being discussed in the same sentence as a player like Hedman and Tavares, unproven or not. Anyone who has watched all three could easily make that distinction. You make it seem as if Schenn is having a Calder worthy year, and is a proven number one d-man, when in fact he has alot left to prove and is not even in the running for the Calder.
This statement wreaks ignorance. People talk like playing great defense does not require skill and talent, and because Hedman is more skilled offensively, he is somehow more skillful. Hedman is not even at the same level as Schenn's defensive game. Tavares is a centre, so the comparison is different.

LOL, there are many great players who has never won the Calder -- that does not make them any less worthy. On the contrary, didn't Raycroft won the Calder? So what's your point? Sure Schenn has a lot to prove, but he's proven many people wrong already. I bet many of the so called hockey experts never fathom that he is this good this fast.

Superstar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-20-2009, 08:20 PM
  #112
Inferno31
Registered User
 
Inferno31's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Hamilton
Country: Canada
Posts: 654
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Superstar View Post
This statement wreaks ignorance. People talk like playing great defense does not require skill and talent, and because Hedman is more skilled offensively, he is somehow more skillful. Hedman is not even at the same level as Schenn's defensive game. Tavares is a centre, so the comparison is different.

LOL, there are many great players who has never won the Calder -- that does not make them any less worthy. On the contrary, didn't Raycroft won the Calder? So what's your point? Sure Schenn has a lot to prove, but he's proven many people wrong already. I bet many of the so called hockey experts never fathom that he is this good this fast.
Statement wreaks ignorance? I imagine you meant reeks of Ignorance, but to say Hedman is not even at the same level as Schenn's defensive game, I would agree at this point. But then Schenn is not even within eyesight of Hedmans offensive level. One player has the potential to be great offensively and defensively..Which one do you think it is.

Its always been my opinion the best defensive play is not a bone crushing hit, or a poke check but simply puck possession. If you have the puck the opponent can't score (exception to the rule.. Bryan McCabe), Detroit plays like this, and you can see why it works.

Just think of it like this if you put together the 09 and 08 draft. Hedman would rank ahead of Schenn, most scouts agree when they ranked the players.

Schenn is an amazing player, and has progressed well. Hes a leader, sticks up for his teammates and plays the game with passion, but will likely not find his name on a Norris trophy, Hedman may. If you want to compare who to build your team on, lets use both players highest ceiling projection. Foote vs. Lidstrom.

Who would you rather build your team around.... Matter of opinion I suppose like all things, but I know who I'd pick.

Inferno31 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-20-2009, 08:20 PM
  #113
Superstar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 2,592
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by EazyB97 View Post
I get what you're saying, but Stevens was one of the leagues premier offensive d-men for a number of years, so he's not a great comparison. At best, a Regehr comparison for Schenn might be applicable.

I think this board has gone in two seperate ways. It's put way too much emphasis on heart or talent. You'll need both. Schenn's a great player, but if he's our best player, we are going to be in alot of trouble. You need a team players and heart and soul guys. He is one and he will likely be one of the best, but good teammates aren't that hard to acquire. On the flip side there is a belief that everyone needs to be a PPG player and a 45+ point d-man to make a top 6/top 4 in the NHL. Simply not true and not going to happen.

I like Schenn as a hockey player, he's solid defensively for a guy his age and I'm happy we have him. I just think his intangibles, like many other players, is being overrated. Hits and blocked shots mean very little if you're being beaten on a consistent basis (Finger's a good example). A player like Schenn isn't going to make a large impact unless he's on a strong team. He won't win games singlehandedly, I don't think so at least, I don't see a skillset that will allow him to dominate all that much. I can see that in other players though, like Tavares/Hedman.
I am glad that people like you are happy to have Schenn, I am too. It bothers me that so many are so fickle and would jump at the chance to dump Schenn for the next draft pick. I think that's ridiculous.

Stevens became a tough defensive defenseman later in his career, so I think his comparison to Schenn's playing style is on par. I thought Stevens' hit on Lindros was exceptionally dominating, and Schenn brings this skillset to the table in addition to his solid defensive play. I think a player like Schenn could change the tone and turn the momentum of a game very quickly.

Superstar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-20-2009, 08:26 PM
  #114
New Liskeard
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 8,843
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Superstar View Post
This statement wreaks ignorance. People talk like playing great defense does not require skill and talent, and because Hedman is more skilled offensively, he is somehow more skillful. Hedman is not even at the same level as Schenn's defensive game. Tavares is a centre, so the comparison is different.

LOL, there are many great players who has never won the Calder -- that does not make them any less worthy. On the contrary, didn't Raycroft won the Calder? So what's your point? Sure Schenn has a lot to prove, but he's proven many people wrong already. I bet many of the so called hockey experts never fathom that he is this good this fast.
That's because defense, is not nearly as sexy as goal scoring, dangling and the like. IMO players and prospects are overrated based on the offensive potential they could possiblly reach. Many people seem to overlook or not take into account the intangibles a hockey player brings. Thankfully we have several of these experts right here on this very board to confirm the ceiling of a player and a players market worth. Quite fortunate really to have these experts readilly available.

New Liskeard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-20-2009, 08:35 PM
  #115
Superstar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 2,592
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inferno31 View Post
Statement wreaks ignorance? I imagine you meant reeks of Ignorance, but to say Hedman is not even at the same level as Schenn's defensive game, I would agree at this point. But then Schenn is not even within eyesight of Hedmans offensive level. One player has the potential to be great offensively and defensively..Which one do you think it is.

Its always been my opinion the best defensive play is not a bone crushing hit, or a poke check but simply puck possession. If you have the puck the opponent can't score (exception to the rule.. Bryan McCabe), Detroit plays like this, and you can see why it works.

Just think of it like this if you put together the 09 and 08 draft. Hedman would rank ahead of Schenn, most scouts agree when they ranked the players.

Schenn is an amazing player, and has progressed well. Hes a leader, sticks up for his teammates and plays the game with passion, but will likely not find his name on a Norris trophy, Hedman may. If you want to compare who to build your team on, lets use both players highest ceiling projection. Foote vs. Lidstrom.

Who would you rather build your team around.... Matter of opinion I suppose like all things, but I know who I'd pick.

LOL, "reeks" that's what I meant. A long day at work so I'm pretty numb mentally now. I'm simply enjoying my time off to read through these boards.

You're right, it is a matter of how you want to build a team. Foote and Lidstrom both won cups with their respective teams.
Although, I think Schenn will end up being a better player than Foote.

If Burke builds the right team with Schenn, I think there is a possibility Schenn could win the Norris (ie. being the most dominating defensive force with the best plus/minus in the league). Right now, the Leafs are pathetic (and it pains me), but on a strong team where the whole team plays like a team and dominates and shuts down the opponent as ONE SINGLE MINDED UNIT, I think that is when Schenn will hit his prime. I dream we lift the Cup then.

Ideally, we end up finishing second from the bottom and draft Hedman also.

Superstar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-20-2009, 08:38 PM
  #116
facey
Registered User
 
facey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 2,105
vCash: 500
highest ceiling is Pronger vs lidstrom

your about to say schenn is different from pronger... he is not more different then hedman is f lidstrom...


you cannot sell house every-time and offer is made... sometimes it needs to be a blowout

right now we have a real starting point.. character, responsibility, respect, tough, and skill... not puck skills, but skill none the less.

lidstrom played nothing lie hedman at that age... hedman also shows emotions, takes penalties and kinda hits... not lidstrom like qualities... so i'd wager its a pronger that is no where near as mean and doesn't hit anywhere near as much versus foote.... (talking ceiling again)...

facey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-20-2009, 10:44 PM
  #117
MSP4LYFE*
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Mississauga
Country: Canada
Posts: 12,488
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Superstar View Post
This statement wreaks ignorance. People talk like playing great defense does not require skill and talent, and because Hedman is more skilled offensively, he is somehow more skillful. Hedman is not even at the same level as Schenn's defensive game. Tavares is a centre, so the comparison is different.

LOL, there are many great players who has never won the Calder -- that does not make them any less worthy. On the contrary, didn't Raycroft won the Calder? So what's your point? Sure Schenn has a lot to prove, but he's proven many people wrong already. I bet many of the so called hockey experts never fathom that he is this good this fast.
There was nothing ignorant about that statement at all, just stating facts, your comments however are a different story entirely. Hedman is a potential generational defenceman and arguably the best prospect available in this years draft, he is a mammoth defenceman with a freakish wingspan and stride. He has played 20+ minutes of defence a night against men since he was 16 in the SEL and has proven to be more then capable of holding his own physically and defensively, in fact he has excelled in both areas. Luke Schenn is a great player, and BY FAR my favourite leaf, but he is a defensive d-man and not a franchise player or a great two way d-man, and certainly not the next Scott Stevens, who btw was one of the best offensive defenceman in the NHL during his prime years. The true ignorance lies in your failure to acknowledge Hedmans great all around game, which is vastly superior to Schenn's at the same age, and no that's not my opinion, it is a fact.

And how, may I ask do you know that Hedman wont stick up for his teammates or effectively lead a team? Because everything I have heard and seen of him suggests otherwise. I dont mean to sound rude, but your comments reek (not wreak) of homerism or in this case, Schennerism. Dont get me wrong, Schenn is a good, potentially great d-man, but to compare him to the likes of Hedman and Tavares, is ridiculous to say the very least.

On a side note:

My remark about the Calder trophy was not meant to imply that Schenn will not become successful or that Mason (the likely winner) is guaranteed to be a star in this league, but rather to point out that Schenn has not been as great as you claim, otherwise he would, at the very least, be in the running for the Calder, no? And imo the only players that should even warrant consideration over JT and Hedman, are those who have proven they can be stars in this league, and by no stretch of the imagination can one suggest Schenn has had that type of impact in his rookie season.

P.S. Reading over my post, it does seem a bit harsh so I just wanted to clarify that it is not personal, and I have absolutely nothing against you personally. Just in disagreement with regards to this particulaur topic.


Last edited by MSP4LYFE*: 02-20-2009 at 10:50 PM.
MSP4LYFE* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-20-2009, 10:48 PM
  #118
MSP4LYFE*
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Mississauga
Country: Canada
Posts: 12,488
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Superstar View Post
I am glad that people like you are happy to have Schenn, I am too. It bothers me that so many are so fickle and would jump at the chance to dump Schenn for the next draft pick. I think that's ridiculous.

Stevens became a tough defensive defenseman later in his career, so I think his comparison to Schenn's playing style is on par. I thought Stevens' hit on Lindros was exceptionally dominating, and Schenn brings this skillset to the table in addition to his solid defensive play. I think a player like Schenn could change the tone and turn the momentum of a game very quickly.
There is a very big difference between "another draft pick", and two potential generational talents in; John Tavares and Victor Hedman.

MSP4LYFE* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-20-2009, 10:56 PM
  #119
MSP4LYFE*
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Mississauga
Country: Canada
Posts: 12,488
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by facey View Post
highest ceiling is Pronger vs lidstrom

your about to say schenn is different from pronger... he is not more different then hedman is f lidstrom...


you cannot sell house every-time and offer is made... sometimes it needs to be a blowout

right now we have a real starting point.. character, responsibility, respect, tough, and skill... not puck skills, but skill none the less.

lidstrom played nothing lie hedman at that age... hedman also shows emotions, takes penalties and kinda hits... not lidstrom like qualities... so i'd wager its a pronger that is no where near as mean and doesn't hit anywhere near as much versus foote.... (talking ceiling again)...
Hedman is alot like Lidstrom with regards to his offensive skillset, and as one other poster alluded to earlier, he prefers to play a possession game, rather than lay out a big hit along the boards. Their composure and patience with the puck is also very similar. Pronger and Schenn on the other hand share nothing in common other then there physical play and defensive prowess, but even then Pronger is much more physical and possess a mean streak like no one else in the NHL today, with the exception of maybe one or two guys.

MSP4LYFE* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-20-2009, 11:02 PM
  #120
MSP4LYFE*
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Mississauga
Country: Canada
Posts: 12,488
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TML4LIFE View Post
That's because defense, is not nearly as sexy as goal scoring, dangling and the like. IMO players and prospects are overrated based on the offensive potential they could possiblly reach. Many people seem to overlook or not take into account the intangibles a hockey player brings. Thankfully we have several of these experts right here on this very board to confirm the ceiling of a player and a players market worth. Quite fortunate really to have these experts readilly available.
As EazyB97 astutely mentioned earlier, (paraphrasing) some posters overemphasize the importance of skill and ppg numbers (myself included), while others overemphasize the importance of intangibles such as, heart, leadership and character. I think we all need to tone down a little bit and take both into equal consideratio when evaluating a player.

MSP4LYFE* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-20-2009, 11:04 PM
  #121
ULF_55
Global Moderator
 
ULF_55's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Mountain Standard Ti
Posts: 55,855
vCash: 500
It sounds like the comparisons should be:

Pronger vs Regeher

__________________
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bA3LN_8hjM8.

Vaive and Ludzik on collapse, and Phaneuf.
ULF_55 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-20-2009, 11:14 PM
  #122
New Liskeard
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 8,843
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MSP4LYFE View Post
As EazyB97 astutely mentioned earlier, (paraphrasing) some posters overemphasize the importance of skill and ppg numbers (myself included), while others overemphasize the importance of intangibles such as, heart, leadership and character. I think we all need to tone down a little bit and take both into equal consideratio when evaluating a player.
Well said and agreed.

New Liskeard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-20-2009, 11:14 PM
  #123
Saul
S'all Good Man
 
Saul's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,787
vCash: 500
People are so confident that Hedman has a good shot at become the next Lidstrom or Pronger. I think he is far from achieving that, at least for now. He certainly has substantial potential but he has a long way to go before he has established what Luke Schenn has at 19!
If I was in NHL team management I wouldn't trade Schenn for the #2 pick this draft. I'd stick with Schenn who my organization has put faith into, and I see his basement as a Robyn Reghr. He has been so good for a 19 year old. IMO he will be remembered as one of the great defensive defenseman for a long time. People underrate this type of player.

Saul is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-20-2009, 11:14 PM
  #124
MSP4LYFE*
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Mississauga
Country: Canada
Posts: 12,488
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ULF_55 View Post
It sounds like the comparisons should be:

Pronger vs Regeher
Hedman is nowhere near as physical as Pronger, and is more skilled and a much better skater. IMO the best comparison is Jay Bouwmeester vs. Robyn Regeher

MSP4LYFE* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-20-2009, 11:16 PM
  #125
MSP4LYFE*
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Mississauga
Country: Canada
Posts: 12,488
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TML4LIFE View Post
Well said and agreed.
Those are words I never expected to hear from you LOL

MSP4LYFE* is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:19 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.