HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Montreal Canadiens
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Engels on MTL press

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
02-19-2009, 01:06 PM
  #26
mcphee
Registered User
 
mcphee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 19,105
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by P1x44r View Post
It's not worth it mcphee. I bet most of them didn't even bother clicking the link before bashing it.

Flavour of the week I guess...
I'm getting really pissed off about the quadruple standard we have. I think Defoy either rushed to print for competitive reasons, or got burned by someone. Maybe by Kovy himself, I have no way of knowing that. I think RDS on their site, neglect to use, 'reported by' enough an dleave themselves open to criticism. Engels is saying that things were handled badly this week. I don't think Defoy, if he erred, did this because he's French Canadian, it has no relevance, of course he is, by sheer numbers he's in a 90% majority so it seems about right that 90% of controversy would come from this side of the linguistic fence.

Frankly, I've heard Engels on the radio an dread few things by him, and I think he has a long way to go to establish himself in the business, but at least he's going for it. I resent any implacation of language here.

mcphee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-19-2009, 01:08 PM
  #27
LyleOdelein
Registered User
 
LyleOdelein's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Renfrew
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,671
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by CanadienErrant View Post
Kovalev can say one thing one day and the opposite the next. It is not the fisrt time he is doing it !

He is just protecting is ass...
Even if Kovalev did say this (which I doubt), DeFoy should have got some kind of confirmation on his information before going forward with it. You can't credibly report a story of this nature citing "I heard from a guy that knows Kovalev" as your source. If DeFoy had cemented a source, it would be impossible for Kovalev to credibly deny the alleged comments. However, Defoy ran with the story before he had proof and now he looks like a hack.

LyleOdelein is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-19-2009, 01:09 PM
  #28
Thinkaboutthat
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 112
vCash: 500
Funny to see how franco beat reporters who travel with the team and attend every game are blasted on a daily basis here, and how anglo-bloggers who don't even have access to the players are praised.

Thinkaboutthat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-19-2009, 01:11 PM
  #29
Mustafa*
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Montréal
Country: Martinique
Posts: 3,407
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcphee View Post
explain why.
be-c-a-u-s-e!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thinkaboutthat View Post
Funny to see how franco beat reporters who travel with the team and attend every game are blasted on a daily basis here, and how anglo-bloggers who don't even have access to the players are praised.
Engels does have acces to the players.

Mustafa* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-19-2009, 01:12 PM
  #30
crazyd
Canada is hockey
 
crazyd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,087
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by loadie View Post
BG did the right thing IMO. Of course telling your star player to stay home will cause controversy. What did you expect? At least it lit a fire under the players yesterday and we'll see if it can continue. If there are Morons in the media that publish BS, that's not Gaineys fault, he told the media why he sent Kovalev home. It's hard to keep things like Kovy staying home without an injury private.
It's Kovy, and for Kovy you need to make a Kovy move, not your regular slap on the wrist a la "look at the game from the press box". In a way it is flattering to Kovy to be treated as such. I still assume there is a lot of mutual respect despite recent events.

Can't say it's good for the remainder of the team though...that IMHO is the only negative effect. But again if the locker room is tight (ugh!?), then shouldn't be an issue.

crazyd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-19-2009, 01:13 PM
  #31
jnthomas
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 679
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to jnthomas
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thinkaboutthat View Post
Funny to see how franco beat reporters who travel with the team and attend every game are blasted on a daily basis here, and how anglo-bloggers who don't even have access to the players are praised.
Engles has access to the players.

jnthomas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-19-2009, 01:15 PM
  #32
mcphee
Registered User
 
mcphee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 19,105
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thinkaboutthat View Post
Funny to see how franco beat reporters who travel with the team and attend every game are blasted on a daily basis here, and how anglo-bloggers who don't even have access to the players are praised.
gotta make it a language thing ehh, can't discuss it on journalistic ethics, figures.

mcphee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-19-2009, 01:15 PM
  #33
Metropolitsky
Still 4x more cups
 
Metropolitsky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,414
vCash: 500
In your face Marc

Metropolitsky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-19-2009, 01:17 PM
  #34
mcphee
Registered User
 
mcphee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 19,105
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gorges of the Jungle View Post
Even if Kovalev did say this (which I doubt), DeFoy should have got some kind of confirmation on his information before going forward with it. You can't credibly report a story of this nature citing "I heard from a guy that knows Kovalev" as your source. If DeFoy had cemented a source, it would be impossible for Kovalev to credibly deny the alleged comments. However, Defoy ran with the story before he had proof and now he looks like a hack.
He could be bang on, but he left it so wide open that Kovalev had an easy out. You can't run with someone told me that Kovy said.....

By the same token, Defoy isn't a guy who plays fast and easy, but frankly the media has become so notorious that a lot of people seem to be setting them up for sport. That Richards story a few weeks back may become commonplace.

mcphee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-19-2009, 01:22 PM
  #35
jake the snake
Registered User
 
jake the snake's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 117
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheCH View Post
I really can't stand Bob Gainey right now. Him of all people should know to deal with things in Montreal in private. This **** storm is to be expected when a move like this is made there, and its overall effect can't be positive.
I think Gainey is genius : 2 options

1- He is trying to start a betting war to trade Kovy

or 2- It's a real and honnest spanking on his star player, who is known to need it sometimes

It's a win-win situation, IMO, + he is trying to bring back some emotions to a sleeping team.

jake the snake is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-19-2009, 01:23 PM
  #36
Quagmier
Registered User
 
Quagmier's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,861
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thinkaboutthat View Post
Funny to see how franco beat reporters who travel with the team and attend every game are blasted on a daily basis here, and how anglo-bloggers who don't even have access to the players are praised.
Engels is the primary Habs guy for XM radio, is a Team 990 radio host, a regular contributor to Habs Inside/Out (Gazette's official online Habs page) and writes for the largest (though least credible) hockey site on the net...he interviews the players on a regular basis and is a full accredited member of the press who attends every home game and many road games with FULL press credentials. He has also shown, in his short time as a Habs reporter, more professionalism than most veteran reporters I've read in this city in both english and french.

This isn't a case of the english guy getting off easy IMO...the simple fact of the matter is that Engels did nothing to warrant "blasting" and many agree with his take on the lack of professionalism shown by a veteran reporter, not to mention the largest network currently following the Habs...I applaud Engels for not pulling punches just because he's some "lowly anglo blogger" and saying what alot of people have been thinking regarding coverage of the Habs in this province.

My take of Defoy: the guy is a well respected member of the press, so when he says something, chances are people are going to listen. Now, while under law he is not obliged to reveal sources at all times, he should have had the foresight to know that coming out with information like that without a credible soundbyte or statement was going to come back to bite him. Yes it's a little over the line to say that this makes him look like an idiot, but at the same time he should have been aware of what the consequences of his actions were gonna be.

Quagmier is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-19-2009, 01:24 PM
  #37
mcphee
Registered User
 
mcphee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 19,105
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quagmier View Post
Engels is the primary Habs guy for XM radio, is a Team 990 radio host, a regular contributor to Habs Inside/Out (Gazette's official online Habs page) and writes for the largest (though least credible) hockey site on the net...he interviews the players on a regular basis and is a full accredited member of the press who attends every home game and many road games with FULL press credentials. He has also shown, in his short time as a Habs reporter, more professionalism than most veteran reporters I've read in this city in both english and french.

This isn't a case of the english guy getting off easy IMO...the simple fact of the matter is that Engels did nothing to warrant "blasting" and many agree with his take on the lack of professionalism shown by a veteran reporter, not to mention the largest network currently following the Habs...I applaud Engels for not pulling punches just because he's some "lowly anglo blogger" and saying what alot of people have been thinking regarding coverage of the Habs in this province.

My take of Defoy: the guy is a well respected member of the press, so when he says something, chances are people are going to listen. Now, while under law he is not obliged to reveal sources at all times, he should have had the foresight to know that coming out with information like that without a credible soundbyte or statement was going to come back to bite him. Yes it's a little over the line to say that this makes him look like an idiot, but at the same time he should have been aware of what the consequences of his actions were gonna be.
wow,common sense.

mcphee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-19-2009, 01:24 PM
  #38
Joe Cole
Registered User
 
Joe Cole's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Montreal
Posts: 3,194
vCash: 500
I will wait to see and hear the words leaving Kovalev's mouth before I attribute anything to something he supposedly said.

Until then, this is all spectulation. Not fact, speculation by people who may or may not have an agenda.

Joe Cole is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-19-2009, 01:30 PM
  #39
Mustafa*
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Montréal
Country: Martinique
Posts: 3,407
vCash: 500
Seriously Mcphee,

i think that Engels is one of the great reporter in this city, he can summarize a game or a situation realy well. But he has been picking on the french press for quite sometime, he used the "french journalists" usualy to discredit them. I dont blame him since a lot of them are deserving it.

But jumping on this story, not even 24 hours after it has been brought up, making a rant about it when we don't know any facts for sure, is surely as bad journalism as RDS or Marc Defoy did.

But personnaly i think he's somekind of right, just unprofessionnal, it might turn out that the joke is on him at the end.

PS: If the english media in the Montreal would have so much positions opened for journalists than the french media has, they would have as much suckers as the french press has.

Mustafa* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-19-2009, 01:31 PM
  #40
Macbeth
Registered User
 
Macbeth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Petite-Patrie, Qc
Country: Canada
Posts: 542
vCash: 500
The use of multiple ! kinda turned me off.

It felt like reading someone from around these here parts, venting.

I guess that's what Engels (at first I thought : "Oh, nice, some philosophy today") is after all.

Macbeth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-19-2009, 01:37 PM
  #41
mcphee
Registered User
 
mcphee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 19,105
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mustafa View Post
Seriously Mcphee,

i think that Engels is one of the great reporter in this city, he can summarize a game or a situation realy well. But he has been picking on the french press for quite sometime, he used the "french journalists" usualy to discredit them. I dont blame him since a lot of them are deserving it.

But jumping on this story, not even 24 hours after it has been brought up, making a rant about it when we don't know any facts for sure, is surely as bad journalism as RDS or Marc Defoy did.

But personnaly i think he's somekind of right, just unprofessionnal, it might turn out that the joke is on him at the end.

PS: If the english media in the Montreal would have so much positions opened for journalists than the french media has, they would have as much suckers as the french press has.

Engels wrote an article about the frenzy of th elast few days. I read one article. He thought that some things were unprofessional. He was editorializing, not reporting. I didn't see anything realted to language in his article.

mcphee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-19-2009, 01:45 PM
  #42
Mustafa*
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Montréal
Country: Martinique
Posts: 3,407
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcphee View Post
Engels wrote an article about the frenzy of th elast few days. I read one article. He thought that some things were unprofessional. He was editorializing, not reporting. I didn't see anything realted to language in his article.
Not this article, but some others.

Mustafa* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-19-2009, 01:47 PM
  #43
LyleOdelein
Registered User
 
LyleOdelein's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Renfrew
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,671
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mustafa View Post
Seriously Mcphee,

i think that Engels is one of the great reporter in this city, he can summarize a game or a situation realy well. But he has been picking on the french press for quite sometime, he used the "french journalists" usualy to discredit them. I dont blame him since a lot of them are deserving it.

But jumping on this story, not even 24 hours after it has been brought up, making a rant about it when we don't know any facts for sure, is surely as bad journalism as RDS or Marc Defoy did.

But personnaly i think he's somekind of right, just unprofessionnal, it might turn out that the joke is on him at the end.
I see what you're saying, but Engels is stating his opinion in a blog. A blog is not held to the same standards of objectivity and accuracy of information as published journalistic reports are (which is why Eklund is not a real journalist). It is entirely within Engels right to rant about his thoughts regarding what happened in a blog.

DeFoy might have a real story here, but if he did, he broke it too early and in an unverified form. Since his story wasn't backed up with any concrete evidence or facts, it was easy to refute. Plainly put, that is poor journalism. When you have a story that is going to create this much buzz, it has to be rock solid, otherwise, you will look silly in the end. If I was a journalist covering the Habs, I'd be upset with the lack of professionalism, too.

LyleOdelein is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-19-2009, 01:48 PM
  #44
crazyd
Canada is hockey
 
crazyd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,087
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quagmier View Post
My take of Defoy: the guy is a well respected member of the press, so when he says something, chances are people are going to listen. Now, while under law he is not obliged to reveal sources at all times, he should have had the foresight to know that coming out with information like that without a credible soundbyte or statement was going to come back to bite him. Yes it's a little over the line to say that this makes him look like an idiot, but at the same time he should have been aware of what the consequences of his actions were gonna be.
You are stating the grey zone of many subjects in regards to being a veteran of a profession versus less experienced people exercising the same profession.

Being a veteran is one thing, being respected is another. Where reasoning is faulty (not yours just stating generally) is when we state that a veteran is ubiquitously respected, thus respected veteran. We tend to take for granted that a veteran is professional. Of course, in hindsight of the experience of a veteran, this grant is easy to give.

Basically, it's not because you are a veteran of a profession that you may lack in professionalism. Those who act as did DeFoy - in consciousness or not of any repercussion - cannot be stirred away of getting demerits for their action.

A little analogy, my grand-mother taught me a lot of good values when I was a young boy. Today, she is now 82 years old and quite bitter due to different family matters. Her bitterness has thrown her into the "dark side" so to speak. She often tells anyone in the family that doesn't support her lack of respect that she is allowed such behavior because of all she did for us - that we should respect her.

My take, it's not because you are old that you are allowed to be an ass.

Same goes for a veteran that lack's professionalism.


Last edited by crazyd: 02-19-2009 at 02:08 PM.
crazyd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-19-2009, 01:57 PM
  #45
OneSharpMarble
Registered User
 
OneSharpMarble's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Calgary
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,221
vCash: 500
I read Engels blogs before, usually he just fawns over every decision made by the management. Not even worth reading, the guy should grow a pair.

OneSharpMarble is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-19-2009, 02:07 PM
  #46
Ozymandias
#firetherrien
 
Ozymandias's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Hockey Mecca
Country: Canada
Posts: 13,438
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by OneSharpMarble View Post
I read Engels blogs before, usually he just fawns over every decision made by the management. Not even worth reading, the guy should grow a pair.
LOL.... to have a pair of balls is to do the exact opposite. The trendy thing to do nowadays for a journalist is to blast Habs management. That's the norm, and to follow the norm, to be conformed with the norm, doesn't take balls.

To go against the grain, that takes balls.

A lot of people here whine and complain, and that's the norm. Those I consider to have balls are those who base their opinion on facts, not those who AUTOMATICALLY go against management everytime there is some detail that goes wrong. In fact, to do that, you neither need a brain nor balls.

Oh and BTW, Engels doesn't fawn over every move, he criticized certain moves. The difference is, he uses his brains and sees both sides of one issue, unlike some people, who can only do one thing... complain complain complain. It doesn,t take balls to do that... in case you thought yuo had balls because you did just that.

Ozymandias is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-19-2009, 02:13 PM
  #47
gusfring
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 6,241
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozymandias View Post
LOL.... to have a pair of balls is to do the exact opposite. The trendy thing to do nowadays for a journalist is to blast Habs management. That's the norm, and to follow the norm, to be conformed with the norm, doesn't take balls.

To go against the grain, that takes balls.

A lot of people here whine and complain, and that's the norm. Those I consider to have balls are those who base their opinion on facts, not those who AUTOMATICALLY go against management everytime there is some detail that goes wrong. In fact, to do that, you neither need a brain nor balls.

Oh and BTW, Engels doesn't fawn over every move, he criticized certain moves. The difference is, he uses his brains and sees both sides of one issue, unlike some people, who can only do one thing... complain complain complain. It doesn,t take balls to do that... in case you thought yuo had balls because you did just that.
How surprising you like him... Wonders never cease - so predictable.

gusfring is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-19-2009, 02:16 PM
  #48
crazyd
Canada is hockey
 
crazyd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,087
vCash: 500
Okay call me slow...I just got the ruefrontenac.com thing.

Forgot they were on strike...nice way to get some attention...


crazyd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-19-2009, 02:18 PM
  #49
Ozymandias
#firetherrien
 
Ozymandias's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Hockey Mecca
Country: Canada
Posts: 13,438
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by nittany View Post
How surprising you like him... Wonders never cease - so predictable.
The same way its predictable you don't like him.... He uses too much critical thinking for your liking. I understand how you don't like him. He uses his brain, and it doesn't fit with the brainwash of Gainey bashing you,ve been spoonfed from guys like Tremblay.

Ozymandias is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-19-2009, 02:20 PM
  #50
gusfring
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 6,241
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozymandias View Post
The same way its predictable you don't like him.... He uses too much critical thinking for your liking. I understand how you don't like him. He uses his brain, and it doesn't fit with the brainwash of Gainey bashing you,ve been spoonfed from guys like Tremblay.
I have no opinion on Engels either way, nor Tremblay.

I know the organization has been so successful recently that they shouldn't be criticized.

gusfring is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:46 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.