HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > National Hockey League Talk
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
National Hockey League Talk Discuss NHL players, teams, games, and the Stanley Cup Playoffs.

Nicklas Lidström: Counting down!

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
02-19-2009, 03:32 PM
  #26
Sensfanman
Registered User
 
Sensfanman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Country: Canada
Posts: 10,181
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Angels for Everyone View Post
no chance at all... even if he played till he was 60



as long as he stays healthy...

remember Lidstrom has NEVER missed any significant time with an injury
Lidstrom also only had 1 season at a PPG (when he had 80 in 80).

The way Green is going, he could have some 90-100 point seasons. He might even end with the most goals of a defenseman too. He'll be close to 80 points as a 23 year at this rate so...it'll be close!

Sensfanman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-19-2009, 03:38 PM
  #27
ForsbergForever
Red Rocket
 
ForsbergForever's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,775
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DisgruntledLionFan View Post
I don't.

If Green were to average a PPG and 78 GP over the next 10 seasons, he'd still fall roughly a hundred points short.
I'm not saying i agree with people who say he's a "lock" what with him only having 122 pts at the moment. Green's first two seasons were basically a waste with his play being restricted by Hanlon but even in ten years he'll only be 33 y/o. All of the defencemen with over 1000pts continued to be productive well into their 30s so if this season is a taste of things to come rather than a fluke dream year then he could be a definite challenger.

ForsbergForever is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
02-19-2009, 03:44 PM
  #28
Richie Daggers Crime
Fistie Daggers Crime
 
Richie Daggers Crime's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: NYI fan in Atl
Posts: 9,574
vCash: 500
The use of the umlauts here makes me want to punch stuff.

Richie Daggers Crime is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
02-19-2009, 03:44 PM
  #29
DisgruntledLionFan
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Country: San Marino
Posts: 889
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Forsberg4ever View Post
I'm not saying i agree with people who say he's a "lock" what with him only having 122 pts at the moment. Green's first two seasons were basically a waste with his play being restricted by Hanlon but even in ten years he'll only be 33 y/o. All of the defencemen with over 1000pts continued to be productive well into their 30s so if this season is a taste of things to come rather than a fluke dream year then he could be a definite challenger.
We'll let's see if he can get to 70 before we start anointing 90 pt seasons on the kid. Everyone on these boards assumes all the young players will get better with age. In reality, that simply isn't true. This could be Green's best season of his career for all we know.

And a PPG over 10 seasons is a pretty ridiculous pace for a d-man in today's game.

DisgruntledLionFan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-19-2009, 03:56 PM
  #30
Schroedingers Cat
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,540
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DisgruntledLionFan View Post
We'll let's see if he can get to 70 before we start anointing 90 pt seasons on the kid. Everyone on these boards assumes all the young players will get better with age. In reality, that simply isn't true. This could be Green's best season of his career for all we know.

And a PPG over 10 seasons is a pretty ridiculous pace for a d-man in today's game.
Green benefits from playing in a highly offensive, not at all defensive system with a plethora of young, highly-talented forwards.

He's very good, and could easily hit 1000 points for his career, but I don't see him hitting more than 80 points a season, ever. Especially if he gets seperated from Ovechkin, Semin, Backstrom, etc....which is almost certain given that we live in a salary cap era.

And even if Green hits 1100 points (which Lids certainly will), he still won't be remembered as a top defenseman all-time.

Hell, if Lids plays another 3-4 seasons he's almost a lock for 1200 points. TBQH, with the game Lids plays, he could play until he was 45, if he could stand not being a top-flight player. Lidstrom at 45 will still be better than most at 25 just based on his ability to position. I don't see Green's game translating well beyond 35 TBQH.

Schroedingers Cat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-19-2009, 03:57 PM
  #31
Blank
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 331
vCash: 500
Green will get the points easier than the 400 +/-.. That takes some luck.

At the moment Green is barely on the + side of things career wise, so getting there would require 10 or so +40 seasons. A figure you'll only get on a winning team. Sure Wash is playing good now, but with the new NHL it's going to be a lot harder to constantly stay on a good team to boost that +/- stat.

Coffey had some crazy point totals for a defender, I doubt his +/- makes him into the somewhat artificial 1000 pts/+400 club.

Blank is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-19-2009, 04:00 PM
  #32
Tomas W
Registered User
 
Tomas W's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Sweden
Posts: 5,110
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shredder View Post
Only 878 points to go for Green.
That's a long way, but he has hopefully for him lots and lots of years left, so he will probably have a good chance if he still playes at Lidströms current age.

As someone pointed out, it helps if Washington or whatever team he plays on keep a high scoring pace.

Tomas W is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-19-2009, 04:33 PM
  #33
SirKillalot
Registered User
 
SirKillalot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Norway
Country: Norway
Posts: 4,776
vCash: 500
Haha, ESPN predicts him to get 999 points.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/player...e?playerId=539

They really want him to get that 1000 in Sweden?

SirKillalot is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
02-19-2009, 04:37 PM
  #34
hexrae
Registered User
 
hexrae's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Peg City
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,515
vCash: 500
I misread the thread title, thought it was about Lidstrom

Lidstrom would've gotten 1000 a season or two ago without the lockout and strike.

hexrae is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-19-2009, 05:05 PM
  #35
HSHS
Losing is a disease
 
HSHS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Redondo Beach, Ca
Country: United States
Posts: 17,639
vCash: 500
Is this regular season only?

Either way its a heck of an accomplishment

HSHS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-19-2009, 05:08 PM
  #36
Lux Aurumque*
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: St. Albert, Alberta
Country: Norway
Posts: 15,653
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Free Eric Fehr View Post
As far as defensemen? I would think a healthy Green would be a lock.
This is only his SECOND season in the NHL. He is FAR from a lock for 1000 points. 10 years from now, you can start discussing this, but it's far too soon to say it right now. Plenty of young players have put up a couple of great seasons only to fall to mediocrity.

Lux Aurumque* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-19-2009, 05:16 PM
  #37
benusmc
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,484
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by familyguyman View Post
Lidstrom also only had 1 season at a PPG (when he had 80 in 80).

The way Green is going, he could have some 90-100 point seasons. He might even end with the most goals of a defenseman too. He'll be close to 80 points as a 23 year at this rate so...it'll be close!
Will it? Because how many seasons has Green been this offensive dynmo??10-11?

benusmc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-19-2009, 05:20 PM
  #38
benusmc
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,484
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lux Aurumque View Post
This is only his SECOND season in the NHL. He is FAR from a lock for 1000 points. 10 years from now, you can start discussing this, but it's far too soon to say it right now. Plenty of young players have put up a couple of great seasons only to fall to mediocrity.
Thats all that gets me, how many times have we heard so and so is amazing and will be the next beast for 5-10 years. Whatever happened to that Bertuzzi fella, wasn't there even threads of him becoming a monster again this season?

All I'm saying is, is it possible for Green? sure why not. Is it probable? no. Either way he is good this year and that's what really matters.

benusmc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-19-2009, 05:32 PM
  #39
Hot Carlson
Registered User
 
Hot Carlson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Washington, DC
Country: United States
Posts: 1,879
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lux Aurumque View Post
This is only his SECOND season in the NHL. He is FAR from a lock for 1000 points. 10 years from now, you can start discussing this, but it's far too soon to say it right now. Plenty of young players have put up a couple of great seasons only to fall to mediocrity.
Yeah, I may have misspoke. Sorry, this team has me a little hysterical right now.

The consensus is absolutely true: it's contingent on him continuing to play in a high-scoring system. Green's already essentially taken one pay cut to stay in DC, and if he continues to give the Caps the hometown discount he'll be racking up the points for years to come. We'll see. However IF he stays in town it's really hard not to envision it.

Hot Carlson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-19-2009, 06:00 PM
  #40
CapitalsCupFantasy
HFBoards Sponsor
 
CapitalsCupFantasy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Country: United States
Posts: 28,262
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DisgruntledLionFan View Post
I don't.

If Green were to average a PPG and 78 GP over the next 10 seasons, he'd still fall roughly a hundred points short.
Then how about you average it over 17 more years then since Green is 23 and should play until he's 40 barring unusual circumstances.

CapitalsCupFantasy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-19-2009, 06:04 PM
  #41
CapitalsCupFantasy
HFBoards Sponsor
 
CapitalsCupFantasy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Country: United States
Posts: 28,262
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Free Eric Fehr View Post
Yeah, I may have misspoke. Sorry, this team has me a little hysterical right now.

The consensus is absolutely true: it's contingent on him continuing to play in a high-scoring system. Green's already essentially taken one pay cut to stay in DC, and if he continues to give the Caps the hometown discount he'll be racking up the points for years to come. We'll see. However IF he stays in town it's really hard not to envision it.
A paycut? Are you joking? He got an incredibly fair raise for a guy coming off an entry level deal.

CapitalsCupFantasy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-19-2009, 06:18 PM
  #42
Hot Carlson
Registered User
 
Hot Carlson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Washington, DC
Country: United States
Posts: 1,879
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by CapitalsCup2010 View Post
A paycut? Are you joking? He got an incredibly fair raise for a guy coming off an entry level deal.
And if you recall, he went to McPhee right before the start of the free agent period and expressed a desire to re-sign with the Caps. He got 5.25, you don't think he would have gotten at least 6.5 on the open market? Hell, Campbell got what, 7? And the Caps would have matched just about any offer sheet. That doesn't say anything to you? That he could have taken more money and gone somewhere else, or taken the money anyway and still stay in DC? 1.5 is no small number.

These young guys have so much fun on and off the ice that as long as OV is in town I think these guys will want to stick together. Some of that may change, but I get the sense that the youngsters on this team are more than just teammates.

I don't know about explicitly taking "pay cuts", but I can honestly see Backstrom and even Semin perhaps taking a little less than other teams would offer. This team doesn't care about money, it cares about Cups.

Hot Carlson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-19-2009, 06:32 PM
  #43
FissionFire
Registered User
 
FissionFire's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Portland, OR
Country: United States
Posts: 10,826
vCash: 500
At the age of 23.....

Mike Green - 122 points to date
Sandis Ozolinsh - 166 points (almost entirely with San Jose, not the high-powered Avs)
Oleg Tverdovsky - 192 points

Would have called Ozolinsh a "lock" for 1000 points when he was in his first stint in San Jose? Was Tverdovsky a certainty playing for the Coyotes and Ducks a certainty for 1000 back then? Ozolinsh finished with 564 career points. Tverdovsky finished with 317 career points. It's WAY too early to start projecting 1000 points on Green. Heck, it's too early to even call even 500 a lock.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Free Eric Fehr View Post
And if you recall, he went to McPhee right before the start of the free agent period and expressed a desire to re-sign with the Caps. He got 5.25, you don't think he would have gotten at least 6.5 on the open market? Hell, Campbell got what, 7? And the Caps would have matched just about any offer sheet. That doesn't say anything to you? That he could have taken more money and gone somewhere else, or taken the money anyway and still stay in DC? 1.5 is no small number.

These young guys have so much fun on and off the ice that as long as OV is in town I think these guys will want to stick together. Some of that may change, but I get the sense that the youngsters on this team are more than just teammates.

I don't know about explicitly taking "pay cuts", but I can honestly see Backstrom and even Semin perhaps taking a little less than other teams would offer. This team doesn't care about money, it cares about Cups.
Detroit is about the Cups. New Jersey is about the Cups. You have to actually win a/some Cup(s) before it can be all about the Cups. If 6 years from now they are still trying to win a Cup or break into the Finals will they all be happy to keep taking discounts to stay together? Will management even let them or shuffle the deck?

FissionFire is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-19-2009, 07:00 PM
  #44
sparr0w
Registered User
 
sparr0w's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 16,361
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by HSHS View Post
Is this regular season only?

Either way its a heck of an accomplishment
Yes. He has 1130 points total.

sparr0w is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-19-2009, 07:03 PM
  #45
CapitalsCupFantasy
HFBoards Sponsor
 
CapitalsCupFantasy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Country: United States
Posts: 28,262
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by FissionFire View Post


Detroit is about the Cups. New Jersey is about the Cups. You have to actually win a/some Cup(s) before it can be all about the Cups. If 6 years from now they are still trying to win a Cup or break into the Finals will they all be happy to keep taking discounts to stay together? Will management even let them or shuffle the deck?
Not really. The Caps as a group have a goal. That's elitest talk from a Wings fan.

CapitalsCupFantasy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-19-2009, 07:08 PM
  #46
ArGarBarGar
Global Moderator
Defense Please
 
ArGarBarGar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Country: United States
Posts: 27,849
vCash: 500
Green is nowhere near a lock. He is playing great offensively, but the guy is frreaking 23.

Not every player has the longevity to be consistent like that year after year.

ArGarBarGar is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
02-19-2009, 07:09 PM
  #47
CapitalsCupFantasy
HFBoards Sponsor
 
CapitalsCupFantasy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Country: United States
Posts: 28,262
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Free Eric Fehr View Post
And if you recall, he went to McPhee right before the start of the free agent period and expressed a desire to re-sign with the Caps. He got 5.25, you don't think he would have gotten at least 6.5 on the open market? Hell, Campbell got what, 7? And the Caps would have matched just about any offer sheet. That doesn't say anything to you? That he could have taken more money and gone somewhere else, or taken the money anyway and still stay in DC? 1.5 is no small number.

These young guys have so much fun on and off the ice that as long as OV is in town I think these guys will want to stick together. Some of that may change, but I get the sense that the youngsters on this team are more than just teammates.

I don't know about explicitly taking "pay cuts", but I can honestly see Backstrom and even Semin perhaps taking a little less than other teams would offer. This team doesn't care about money, it cares about Cups.
Why would you be arguing a RFA vs a UFA (Campbell) scenario? Green got a well deserved and MORE than fair RFA contract extension.

Regarding Backstrom and Semin taking less, don't hold your breath. They'll both be close to market price, RFA market price, not UFA. If "this team didn't care about $$", Green would have signed for $3mil, Ovy $6mil, Semin $2.5 mil. Be realistic, they're in a business where they expect to be compensated fairly. They're not in the business of leaving millions of $$ on the table. Not saying it couldn't happen, but don't hold your breath expecting them all to take home team discounts.

CapitalsCupFantasy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-19-2009, 07:11 PM
  #48
Nordic*
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Tellus
Country: Russian Federation
Posts: 13,722
vCash: 500
Nik is very close to a stay at home defenceman, him closing in on 1000 points is ridiculous.

Imagine if he had been less defensively responsible and instead focused more on offence through out his career.

Nordic* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-19-2009, 07:11 PM
  #49
CapitalsCupFantasy
HFBoards Sponsor
 
CapitalsCupFantasy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Country: United States
Posts: 28,262
vCash: 500
Lidstrom will get the mark next season.

CapitalsCupFantasy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-19-2009, 07:14 PM
  #50
benusmc
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,484
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Free Eric Fehr View Post
And if you recall, he went to McPhee right before the start of the free agent period and expressed a desire to re-sign with the Caps. He got 5.25, you don't think he would have gotten at least 6.5 on the open market? Hell, Campbell got what, 7? And the Caps would have matched just about any offer sheet. That doesn't say anything to you? That he could have taken more money and gone somewhere else, or taken the money anyway and still stay in DC? 1.5 is no small number.

These young guys have so much fun on and off the ice that as long as OV is in town I think these guys will want to stick together. Some of that may change, but I get the sense that the youngsters on this team are more than just teammates.

I don't know about explicitly taking "pay cuts", but I can honestly see Backstrom and even Semin perhaps taking a little less than other teams would offer. This team doesn't care about money, it cares about Cups.
Wow is it just me or are Caps fans starting to sound a lot like Pens fans last year?

benusmc is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:46 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2015 All Rights Reserved.