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Nicklas Lidström: Counting down!

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Old
02-19-2009, 06:16 PM
  #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nordic View Post
Nik is very close to a stay at home defenceman, him closing in on 1000 points is ridiculous.

Imagine if he had been less defensively responsible and instead focused more on offence through out his career.
Calling him a stay at home defender is a bit of stretch. It's just his style of play, not some mental decision to stay back or rush the puck more. Not many defenders have the skills to be an end to end rush the puck guy. He's more of a conventional defender with very good offensive skills, who stayed healthy, and who has been lucky enough to play on very well stocked offensive teams throughout his career.

The stars aligned for the guy's career that's for sure.

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02-19-2009, 06:17 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by benusmc View Post
Wow is it just me or are Caps fans starting to sound a lot like Pens fans last year?
Please don't lump us all in that boat because of a few fans who believe the hype.

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Old
02-19-2009, 06:19 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Nordic View Post
Nik is very close to a stay at home defenceman, him closing in on 1000 points is ridiculous.

Imagine if he had been less defensively responsible and instead focused more on offence through out his career.
DAMN YOU SCOTTY BOWMAN AND YOUR DEFENSE 1ST MINDSET!!!!!!!

it all started with Stevie Y

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Old
02-19-2009, 06:24 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by CapitalsCup2010 View Post
Please don't lump us all in that boat because of a few fans who believe the hype.
no i understand that, we've been through it with the Sabres fans, been through it with the Pens fans, and now it's the Caps fans. Just excited that there team is competing and showing massive improvements. You can't hate on them for that. Although I suppose the over exaggration gets tiresome, but that comes with the idea of joy of your team/players doing well.


I hope you do understand what I meant though. So and so is the next hf (at a young age), everyone on our team is going to take pay cuts, etc, etc.

I'm just a tad bitter because the one consitant is someone trying to knock Lids down, while trying to talk there player up, and I find the one constant should be very impressive to say the least. Either way I hope your team does stay together, I enjoy them probably my 2nd fav. team in the East, I've always had a soft spot for the Panthers; it helps they are doing better this year too.

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Old
02-19-2009, 06:28 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by Jonas1235 View Post
If Detroit's powerplay keeps going like it is, he could get there near the end of the season. But the real question is will Chris Chelios get to 1000 points? He's at 948.
52 more points for Cheli is kind of a tall order considering he's logged a total of only 2/3 of that (34 points) in the three and a half seasons since the lockout. 0 this season.

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Old
02-19-2009, 06:28 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by CapitalsCup2010 View Post
Calling him a stay at home defender is a bit of stretch. It's just his style of play, not some mental decision to stay back or rush the puck more. Not many defenders have the skills to be an end to end rush the puck guy. He's more of a conventional defender with very good offensive skills, who stayed healthy, and who has been lucky enough to play on very well stocked offensive teams throughout his career.

The stars aligned for the guy's career that's for sure.
Is it just me, or does this sound oddly like a "If he didnt play in Detroit..." caveat reserved for Detroit players?

Lidstrom is one of the best to ever play the position, period. Red Wings or otherwise.

Six Norris trophies on pure luck and happenstance that he stayed healthy and played on a good team. Riiiiight.

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02-19-2009, 06:31 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by DarkReign View Post
Is it just me, or does this sound oddly like a "If he didnt play in Detroit..." caveat reserved for Detroit players?

Lidstrom is one of the best to ever play the position, period. Red Wings or otherwise.

Six Norris trophies on pure luck and happenstance that he stayed healthy and played on a good team. Riiiiight.
It's not just you. The Green team are getting more ridiculous with each post.

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Old
02-19-2009, 06:34 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by CapitalsCup2010 View Post
Calling him a stay at home defender is a bit of stretch. It's just his style of play, not some mental decision to stay back or rush the puck more. Not many defenders have the skills to be an end to end rush the puck guy. He's more of a conventional defender with very good offensive skills, who stayed healthy, and who has been lucky enough to play on very well stocked offensive teams throughout his career.

The stars aligned for the guy's career that's for sure.
Wow. So Lidstrom is only good because he played for the Red Wings.

Un-****ing-believable. I wonder if people here actually believe what they type sometimes. He's a top ten d-man of all time, and maybe even top five.

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02-19-2009, 06:35 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by DarkReign View Post
Is it just me, or does this sound oddly like a "If he didnt play in Detroit..." caveat reserved for Detroit players?

Lidstrom is one of the best to ever play the position, period. Red Wings or otherwise.

Six Norris trophies on pure luck and happenstance that he stayed healthy and played on a good team. Riiiiight.
same player diff. haters. Next year if say L.A. is doing good. We will hear L.A. fans saying how Doughty is the next HF and they will be hating on Lids.

On another note people won't truely appreciate Lidstrom until he is retired for a few years. The immidate impact will be his personal fans thinking man if Lids was playing that wouldn't have happened. Then it moves onto general team fans after a year or so. Eventually the entire league will be talking about the next consistant Norris caliber D man, and most even none fans will be rating Lidstrom higher then they do currently and saying that such and such a player doesn't hold a candle to him. It's actually impressive now that so many consider him top 5 and in many circles top 3 without retiring.

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Old
02-19-2009, 06:37 PM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkReign View Post
Is it just me, or does this sound oddly like a "If he didnt play in Detroit..." caveat reserved for Detroit players?

Lidstrom is one of the best to ever play the position, period. Red Wings or otherwise.

Six Norris trophies on pure luck and happenstance that he stayed healthy and played on a good team. Riiiiight.

Don't pretend that being on a team stacked with HOFers didn't help his career. Seriously...come on. I'm not saying he's not a great player, because clearly he is, but you can't BLINDLY discount the stacked group of talent he's played with his entire career.

How many Norris' does he win if he's selected 1 pick earlier by the Hartford Whalers or a pick later by the Nordique, 1, 2, zero?

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02-19-2009, 06:39 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by CapitalsCup2010 View Post
Don't pretend that being on a team stacked with HOFers didn't help his career. Seriously...come on. I'm not saying he's not a great player, because clearly he is, but you can't BLINDLY discount the stacked group of talent he's played with his entire career.

How many Norris' does he win if he's selected 1 pick earlier by the Hartford Whalers or a pick later by the Nordique, 1, 2, zero?
He would win six. His defensive ability is not helped by his players.

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Old
02-19-2009, 06:39 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by Edge of Sanity View Post
Wow. So Lidstrom is only good because he played for the Red Wings.
Un-****ing-believable. I wonder if people here actually believe what they type sometimes. He's a top ten d-man of all time, and maybe even top five.
Yes because that's exactly what I typed. Jeez the fanboys need to step back from the ledge this year. I mean I know Lidstrom is beloved and it's blasphemy that some others are being considered for the Norris, but jeez...get over yourself already.

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Old
02-19-2009, 06:41 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by Doc Holiday View Post
He would win six. His defensive ability is not helped by his players.
Not a chance in hell he wins 6 with the Whalers/Canes. Can't ever prove it, but IMO he would have never put up the elite numbers with a poor/average club.

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02-19-2009, 06:44 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by CapitalsCup2010 View Post
Not a chance in hell he wins 6 with the Whalers/Canes. Can't ever prove it, but IMO he would have never put up the elite numbers with a poor/average club.
The Norris is not a statistical trophy. It is for the best defenseman.

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02-19-2009, 06:49 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by CapitalsCup2010 View Post
Not a chance in hell he wins 6 with the Whalers/Canes. Can't ever prove it, but IMO he would have never put up the elite numbers with a poor/average club.
Pot meet Kettle



So you can prove he wouldn't win 6??? Please tell me you think before you actually speak. You certianly don't before you type.

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Old
02-19-2009, 06:50 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by CapitalsCup2010 View Post
Not a chance in hell he wins 6 with the Whalers/Canes. Can't ever prove it, but IMO he would have never put up the elite numbers with a poor/average club.
You can say that about any player's career.

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Old
02-19-2009, 06:51 PM
  #67
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so I want to know who actually makes the Wings good Datysuk/overrated, Z/overrated, Lids/ FOR SURE overrated, Mule/overrated. I guess its the amazing goaltending of Chris Osgood and our intimidating 4th line.....

New fans same arguement!

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02-19-2009, 06:52 PM
  #68
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You can say that about any player's career.
I put money down that if Orr was on the Leafs they would have won 8 cups. Wow pretending is fun!

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Old
02-19-2009, 06:56 PM
  #69
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Originally Posted by benusmc View Post
so I want to know who actually makes the Wings good Datysuk/overrated, Z/overrated, Lids/ FOR SURE overrated, Mule/overrated. I guess its the amazing goaltending of Chris Osgood and our intimidating 4th line.....

New fans same arguement!
Dunno...never had those opinions myself. Clearly the best talent in the league.

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02-19-2009, 07:11 PM
  #70
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Originally Posted by CapitalsCup2010 View Post
Calling him a stay at home defender is a bit of stretch. It's just his style of play, not some mental decision to stay back or rush the puck more. Not many defenders have the skills to be an end to end rush the puck guy. He's more of a conventional defender with very good offensive skills, who stayed healthy, and who has been lucky enough to play on very well stocked offensive teams throughout his career.

The stars aligned for the guy's career that's for sure.
It's not a stretch at all. Lidstrom is one of the most cautious/defense first minded defensemen ever. Having the most goals, assists, points of any defensemen during his career ('91-'92 to present, regular season and/or playoffs) is just a bonus.

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02-19-2009, 07:21 PM
  #71
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I think it is obvious that Lidstrom is one of the absolute worst dmen of all time. He has won so many Norris trophies for the same reason that Bob Rouse and Jamie Macoun did while they were on the Wings.

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02-19-2009, 07:33 PM
  #72
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CapitalsCup2010,

As Wings fans, we get tired of hearing the same **** all the time. Youre not the first and certainly not the last.

The Wings have been so good for so long because of Lidstrom, not the other way around.

Put it this way....you, me, everyone on this board and in this thread put together do not understand hockey on the level Scotty Bowman has forgotten about. His opinion on that particular subject differs greatly from yours.

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Old
02-19-2009, 07:41 PM
  #73
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Originally Posted by DarkReign View Post
CapitalsCup2010,

As Wings fans, we get tired of hearing the same **** all the time. Youre not the first and certainly not the last.

The Wings have been so good for so long because of Lidstrom, not the other way around.

Put it this way....you, me, everyone on this board and in this thread put together do not understand hockey on the level Scotty Bowman has forgotten about. His opinion on that particular subject differs greatly from yours.
speak for yourself

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02-19-2009, 07:44 PM
  #74
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Oh and for a frame of reference Lidstrom has 19 points in his last 21 games. 7G 12A +11 in January and February.

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02-19-2009, 08:06 PM
  #75
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Firstly, there's a world of difference between saying that a player has "been helped" by being on a certain team and saying that he "was a product" of the team he played for.

Furthermore, just like it can't be proven that Lidstrom's offensive numbers have been helped by playing for Detroit, it can't be proven that his numbers wouldn't have suffered on a less stellar team.

Both sides of this debate are opinions, not facts.

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