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Nicklas Lidström: Counting down!

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Old
02-20-2009, 08:31 AM
  #76
Gozer
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His numbers probably would have suffered if he got drafted by a worse team, but to say that he would go from 6 Norrises to 0 is ridiculous. It also completely ignores what impact he would have had on those teams in terms on development and drawing other players there.

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02-20-2009, 08:46 AM
  #77
daigle
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If he keeps his PPG the rest of the season he will get 999 by the end of this season. So its very possible he scores his 1000th in Stockholm

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Old
02-20-2009, 08:49 AM
  #78
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If he keeps his PPG the rest of the season he will get 999 by the end of this season. So its very possible he scores his 1000th in Stockholm
That would be sweet.

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Old
02-20-2009, 09:03 AM
  #79
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Originally Posted by CapitalsCup2010 View Post
Calling him a stay at home defender is a bit of stretch. It's just his style of play, not some mental decision to stay back or rush the puck more. Not many defenders have the skills to be an end to end rush the puck guy. He's more of a conventional defender with very good offensive skills, who stayed healthy, and who has been lucky enough to play on very well stocked offensive teams throughout his career.

The stars aligned for the guy's career that's for sure.
He's basicly a stay at home defence man who plays PP. He never ever gets caught out of position, and his game is first and foremost defence. Kinda the opposite of a certain Mr Green.

Wouldn't call Nik a conventional defender. Is there another defender in this league with a game like his?

Staying healthy isn't just luck, it's smartness. The kind of intelligence that Forsberg & Lindros lacked.

Playing on stocked offensive teams? He's one of the major reasons Detroit has been the best team in the league since he joined them.

Some players are awesome by themselves, some are awesome while lifting the entire team to a whole new level.


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Originally Posted by CapitalsCup2010 View Post
Not a chance in hell he wins 6 with the Whalers/Canes. Can't ever prove it, but IMO he would have never put up the elite numbers with a poor/average club.
Thing is. On a team without any other superstars, but with alot of capable role players, he would've stood out even more so than he has on a super power like the DRW.

Look at Bourque in Boston. If he had played on a top-3 team, he would've had less ice time, aswell as having to share the spot light with all the other stars.

The best spot to really get appreciated might possibly be in a team around 5-10:th in the league.

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Originally Posted by CapitalsCup2010 View Post
Don't pretend that being on a team stacked with HOFers didn't help his career. Seriously...come on. I'm not saying he's not a great player, because clearly he is, but you can't BLINDLY discount the stacked group of talent he's played with his entire career.

How many Norris' does he win if he's selected 1 pick earlier by the Hartford Whalers or a pick later by the Nordique, 1, 2, zero?

If he had gone to the Nordiques, he would've played with with Forsberg and the rest in Colorado. To the whalers he would've made Carolina top-3 in the league during these years.

Detroit became the super power they've been, about the time Lidstrom joined up.


Btw, Bourque & Lidstrom together in Colorado that one season would've been unfair, haha..



Like someone else said. Generally, a player needs to be retired for a good chunk of years to be really appreciated. Especially on HF-boards.

If Orr played today and Lidstrom during the 60:s and 70:s, Nik would be considered as the best defender by the majority in here.




Atleast if he was canadian and Orr swedish

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Old
02-20-2009, 10:03 AM
  #80
Harold Snepsts
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Wow. So Lidstrom is only good because he played for the Red Wings.

Un-****ing-believable. I wonder if people here actually believe what they type sometimes. He's a top ten d-man of all time, and maybe even top five.
It's the standard argument used against any Wings player.

None of the players on the Red Wings are that good, they all just somehow benefit from being on a great team.

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Old
02-20-2009, 10:14 AM
  #81
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Originally Posted by Harold Snepsts View Post
It's the standard argument used against any Wings player.

None of the players on the Red Wings are that good, they all just somehow benefit from being on a great team.

You know what else is funny about this stupid argument? Lidstrom has been called on by all of the coaches that he played for to go out against the best players in the world and has been great for years. Now what does that have to with the other elite players on the team? Probably his best partner was Larry Murphy a hall of famer and Murphy says he was the best defenseman he has played with and remember Murphy played in Pittsburgh and L.A. There may have been pretty good players on those teams. All of Lidstroms partner have otherwise been average until they got on the ice with him. Look at this year, Kronwall was struggling, put him with Nik and now look, he has improved tons. Nik makes others around him better.

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Old
02-20-2009, 10:17 AM
  #82
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Originally Posted by Harold Snepsts View Post
It's the standard argument used against any Wings player.

None of the players on the Red Wings are that good, they all just somehow benefit from being on a great team.
It is an interesting phenomenon.

The Oilers of the 80s were like that too: Gretzky only scored 200 points because of his teammates, of course Kurri was nothing without Gretzky and Coffey was just a bum on any other team, can't forget Fuhr - he was just an average goalie propped up by big offense, Anderson clearly leeched off of Messier....

How do they win games?

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Old
02-20-2009, 11:02 AM
  #83
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How do they win games?
Going by the game day threads, I'd have to answer, "the refs."

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Old
02-20-2009, 11:05 AM
  #84
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Going by the game day threads, I'd have to answer, "the refs."
or by 'inteference' is another favourite

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Old
02-20-2009, 12:04 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by overg View Post
Going by the game day threads, I'd have to answer, "the refs."
Bingo.

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Originally Posted by Angels for Everyone View Post
or by 'inteference' is another favourite
Bango.

Its in the net.

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Old
02-20-2009, 12:11 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by Ogopogo View Post
It is an interesting phenomenon.

The Oilers of the 80s were like that too: Gretzky only scored 200 points because of his teammates, of course Kurri was nothing without Gretzky and Coffey was just a bum on any other team, can't forget Fuhr - he was just an average goalie propped up by big offense, Anderson clearly leeched off of Messier....

How do they win games?
This!!!


/Cheers

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Old
02-20-2009, 07:18 PM
  #87
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982 with 18 to go.

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Old
02-20-2009, 07:24 PM
  #88
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He's having a great game already tonight

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Old
02-20-2009, 07:45 PM
  #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frozen Ice View Post
Lidstrom has played in 98% of the games he could. That's pretty durable.
I did an analysis a few years ago. It's slightly out of date because it only looks at Lidstrom's first ten & fifteen years.

Lidstrom is the most durable player, through fifteen seasons, in NHL history.

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Old
02-20-2009, 07:50 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by daigle View Post
If he keeps his PPG the rest of the season he will get 999 by the end of this season. So its very possible he scores his 1000th in Stockholm
Honestly that would be too cool, and what a treat it would be for you guys over there

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Old
02-20-2009, 08:03 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by Nordic View Post
He's basicly a stay at home defence man who plays PP. He never ever gets caught out of position, and his game is first and foremost defence. Kinda the opposite of a certain Mr Green.

Wouldn't call Nik a conventional defender. Is there another defender in this league with a game like his?

Staying healthy isn't just luck, it's smartness. The kind of intelligence that Forsberg & Lindros lacked.

Playing on stocked offensive teams? He's one of the major reasons Detroit has been the best team in the league since he joined them.

Some players are awesome by themselves, some are awesome while lifting the entire team to a whole new level.


Thing is. On a team without any other superstars, but with alot of capable role players, he would've stood out even more so than he has on a super power like the DRW.

Look at Bourque in Boston. If he had played on a top-3 team, he would've had less ice time, as well as having to share the spot light with all the other stars.

The best spot to really get appreciated might possibly be in a team around 5-10:th in the league.



If he had gone to the Nordiques, he would've played with with Forsberg and the rest in Colorado. To the whalers he would've made Carolina top-3 in the league during these years.

Detroit became the super power they've been, about the time Lidstrom joined up.


Btw, Bourque & Lidstrom together in Colorado that one season would've been unfair, haha..
i think this is right. and i think the bourque example is a good one.

boston had some very good players, but without bourque, boston was mediocre at best.

if lidstrom had played for hartford/carolina his whole career, his role would have been larger, and he would have stood out more.

DRW would have been worse, and hartford/carolina would have beem better.

i think the main difference between lidstrom's seasons before he was a norris finalist, and his seasons as a norris finalist was his larger role.

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Old
02-20-2009, 09:41 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by CapitalsCup2010 View Post
Not a chance in hell he wins 6 with the Whalers/Canes. Can't ever prove it, but IMO he would have never put up the elite numbers with a poor/average club.
If they had Lidstrom on their blue line to build around in his prime, they wouldn't have been a poor/average club.

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Old
02-20-2009, 09:52 PM
  #93
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I can understand people saying players like Osgood benefit from playing with Detroit, but Lidstrom? Nicklas Lidstrom?

Lidstrom joined the Wings in the 1991–92 season... 17 seasons ago. Guess what the Wings current streak of post season appearances is?

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Old
02-20-2009, 09:56 PM
  #94
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Originally Posted by Frozen Ice View Post
I can understand people saying players like Osgood benefit from playing with Detroit, but Lidstrom? Nicklas Lidstrom?

Lidstrom joined the Wings in the 1991–92 season... 17 seasons ago. Guess what the Wings current streak of post season appearances is?
Not to mention, Lidstrom is the last player from that team still on the Red Wings. He has been the only constant over a decade and a half of excellence.

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Old
02-20-2009, 10:10 PM
  #95
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Originally Posted by Frozen Ice View Post
I can understand people saying players like Osgood benefit from playing with Detroit, but Lidstrom? Nicklas Lidstrom?

Lidstrom joined the Wings in the 1991–92 season... 17 seasons ago. Guess what the Wings current streak of post season appearances is?
I wonder if he's the only active player who never missed the playoffs to this date...

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Old
02-20-2009, 10:14 PM
  #96
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Not to mention, Lidstrom is the last player from that team still on the Red Wings. He has been the only constant over a decade and a half of excellence.
Along with Stevie Y, they were the heart of the team. I honestly just wish Federov never left and Vlady wasn't paralyzed. Wings would of dominated and their name probably would of been the only one on the Prez trophy since '97ish

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Old
02-20-2009, 10:33 PM
  #97
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I can still remember the time Lidstrom broke into this league and now he's approaching 1000 pts in his career. Unbelievable!

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Old
02-20-2009, 10:48 PM
  #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CapitalsCup2010 View Post
Calling him a stay at home defender is a bit of stretch. It's just his style of play, not some mental decision to stay back or rush the puck more. Not many defenders have the skills to be an end to end rush the puck guy. He's more of a conventional defender with very good offensive skills, who stayed healthy, and who has been lucky enough to play on very well stocked offensive teams throughout his career.

The stars aligned for the guy's career that's for sure.
Did you just say "the stars aligned" for the best defenseman of a generation?

Lidstrom is a HUGE reason why the Red Wings have been so good for so long.

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Old
02-20-2009, 11:19 PM
  #99
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I wonder if he's the only active player who never missed the playoffs to this date...
Holmstrom

Rafalski

Osgood if you can't the two years he was a backup from 05-07

Draper if you don't count the years where he never played a full-season in Winnipeg.

Chelios surprisingly only missed one playoff in his entire career in 97-98 with Chicago.

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Old
02-21-2009, 12:44 AM
  #100
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Was thinking about the 1000 point mark this evening. Am I crazy in thinking that no current defenseman over the age of 25 has a hope in hell of reaching 1000 points?

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