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RUMOR: TSN says JVR for Lehtonen is a strong possibility

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Old
02-27-2009, 04:24 PM
  #101
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ASF, I'd love to see Detroit repeat. But that might be the Detroit fan in me.

Filppula would be a great addition, but I wouldn't want Howard. Like F0rsbergFan21 said, Hudler would be a better choice.

In saying that, I can't imagine seeing Detroit ship off roster players until after the playoffs. They have a winning formula, so trading roster players for a goalie would be viewed as more of a panic move. It's true that Osgood has sucked pretty hard this season, but if they can get a goalie and spend less (draft pick, maybe a prospect), I'm sure they will do so instead.

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02-27-2009, 04:29 PM
  #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lux Aurumque View Post

Kari is terrible. Atlanta will never go far with him in net. He's emotionally unstable, and allows at least one really weak goal in each game.
I'm having a really hard time buying your analysis of player talent:

http://hfboards.com/showpost.php?p=1...&postcount=116

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02-27-2009, 04:38 PM
  #103
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you have to remember we are going to finish with a top 3 pick in the draft. We WILL get prospects that can play right away in this years draft. We should be able to shop Havelid, White, Reasoner and get some other picks or prospects. We dont need to trade away a great goalie. If and when Tavares is a Thrasher, we will see huge change. Our defense is very young. They will be great next season. If we get #1 or #2 overall ill be extremely happy. Cause its either Tavares or Hedman.

When Lehtonen is playing with us as a good team we will see the beast that is tamed in Lehtonen. If you already think Lehtonen is amazing (as i do), well your in for the surprise of your lifetime when he is playing with a good team and not making 40 saves a night, he will be a top goalie in the NHL

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02-27-2009, 04:43 PM
  #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flerd_trandle View Post
I'm having a really hard time buying your analysis of player talent:

http://hfboards.com/showpost.php?p=1...&postcount=116
Yeah, I could never see Malkin carry us like Kovalchuk...

I would be delighted by trading Lehtonen for Hudler and Filppula, and sign an UFA goalie. Maybe Fernandez, Manny ($4,333,333)? He could be a short term solution. Or Niittymaki? We could take Tellqvist instead of Hedberg....

Trade Lehtonen for Hudler and Fillpula

Taking UFA-s like Nittymaki, Tellqvist?


And get rid of Hedbeg.

But it's highly unlikely that Detroit would go for a deal like this.

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02-27-2009, 05:51 PM
  #105
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Lux...You remind me of a quote from Family Guy....

"Sure, the boat is a boat, but the mystery box could be anything! Even a boat!"

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02-28-2009, 03:26 PM
  #106
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Take off your blue glasses, Thrashers fans. Lehtonen is NOT a great goalie. I don't know what you have to see to finally understand that.

Let's look at the stats...

Kari is 30th in save percentage. This puts him behind 7 back-up goalies.
Kari is 39th in GAA. The only starter worse than him is Toskala.

Kari is the worst starter in the Southeast, for sure, and the Southeast is the worst division in the league when considering goalies.

CAR: Cam Ward is better than Lehtonen in both statistics. One of the NHL's worst back-ups, Michael Leighton beats Lehtonen in GAA, but has a worse save percentage.
FLA: Both of Florida's goalies are superior to Lehtonen statistically.
TBL: Mike Smith's statistics are also superior to Lehtonen's. Tampa has run three back-ups this year. Kolzig and McKenna have better GAA's than Lehtonen, however, they both have worse save percentages. Karri Ramo is terrible, and is the only goalie in the division to have both a worse GAA and a worse save percentage than Lehtonen.
WSH: Theodore's save percentage is slightly worse than Kari's, but his GAA is much better. However, Brent Johnson is significantly better than Kari in both aspects.

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02-28-2009, 04:46 PM
  #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lux Aurumque View Post
Take off your blue glasses, Thrashers fans. Lehtonen is NOT a great goalie. I don't know what you have to see to finally understand that.

Let's look at the stats...

Kari is 30th in save percentage. This puts him behind 7 back-up goalies.
Kari is 39th in GAA. The only starter worse than him is Toskala.

Kari is the worst starter in the Southeast, for sure, and the Southeast is the worst division in the league when considering goalies.

CAR: Cam Ward is better than Lehtonen in both statistics. One of the NHL's worst back-ups, Michael Leighton beats Lehtonen in GAA, but has a worse save percentage.
FLA: Both of Florida's goalies are superior to Lehtonen statistically.
TBL: Mike Smith's statistics are also superior to Lehtonen's. Tampa has run three back-ups this year. Kolzig and McKenna have better GAA's than Lehtonen, however, they both have worse save percentages. Karri Ramo is terrible, and is the only goalie in the division to have both a worse GAA and a worse save percentage than Lehtonen.
WSH: Theodore's save percentage is slightly worse than Kari's, but his GAA is much better. However, Brent Johnson is significantly better than Kari in both aspects.
lux, we get it. you think he sucks. fine. We dont dispute the fact that you hate him. But dont come around saying we all wear blue glasses because we think lehtonen is a good goalie. thats completely insulting. I don't deny that I can be a big homer, but it doesnt affect my ability to give a fair analysis of a player.

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02-28-2009, 11:45 PM
  #108
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Darren Elliot mentioned that the Lehtonen/JVR rumor going around is off base, and that it's Pavelec that Philly is after. He said he doubts Lehtonen is moved.

I would absolutely deal Pavelec for JVR. Carrozzi will be ready to play for the Wolves next year and we also have Kangas playing NCAA hockey.

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03-01-2009, 12:22 AM
  #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lux Aurumque View Post
blah blah blah
You're getting less credible by the day. Maybe take a day off?

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03-01-2009, 12:35 AM
  #110
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Originally Posted by blankspace6 View Post
Darren Elliot mentioned that the Lehtonen/JVR rumor going around is off base, and that it's Pavelec that Philly is after. He said he doubts Lehtonen is moved.

I would absolutely deal Pavelec for JVR. Carrozzi will be ready to play for the Wolves next year and we also have Kangas playing NCAA hockey.

I'm not going to say the rumor doesn't make any sense. Philly could use goaltending and while I'd think JVR has more value than Pavelec, it's not that far off. But that's not the kind of deal a team makes at the trade deadline. It would make much more sense in the offseason.

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03-01-2009, 01:52 AM
  #111
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Originally Posted by Jericho View Post
I'm not going to say the rumor doesn't make any sense. Philly could use goaltending and while I'd think JVR has more value than Pavelec, it's not that far off. But that's not the kind of deal a team makes at the trade deadline. It would make much more sense in the offseason.
Could be part of a bigger deal. Say Flyers are looking for some immediate help for their cup run, like Hävelid, and/or looking to dump some salary. Atlanta asks for JVR, but Flyers want Pavelec coming the other way, thus addressing their long term goalie need too. Hävelid + Pavelec for salary dump + JVR?

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03-01-2009, 07:47 AM
  #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blankspace6 View Post
Darren Elliot mentioned that the Lehtonen/JVR rumor going around is off base, and that it's Pavelec that Philly is after. He said he doubts Lehtonen is moved.

I would absolutely deal Pavelec for JVR. Carrozzi will be ready to play for the Wolves next year and we also have Kangas playing NCAA hockey.
I would take that deal. JVR for Pavs seems like a pretty decent deal. If that was the deal, I could see the need to drafts goalie in the second or third round this summer. Kangas is still 2-3 yrs away, so the depth of NHL ready goalies in the organization definitly takes a hit with that trade. But a Top 6 of Kovy-Tavares/Pevs-Little, Kozy-Pevs/Espo-JVR would be nice though.

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Old
03-01-2009, 08:22 AM
  #113
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Originally Posted by Shameus View Post
Kangas is still 2-3 yrs away, so the depth of NHL ready goalies in the organization definitly takes a hit with that trade. But a Top 6 of Kovy-Tavares/Pevs-Little, Kozy-Pevs/Espo-JVR would be nice though.
You also have to factor in if the Thrashers are pleased with the progression of Chris Carrozi this year as well. Not sure if he is eligible for the AHL next year.

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Old
03-01-2009, 08:50 AM
  #114
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Originally Posted by Shameus View Post
I would take that deal. JVR for Pavs seems like a pretty decent deal. If that was the deal, I could see the need to drafts goalie in the second or third round this summer. Kangas is still 2-3 yrs away, so the depth of NHL ready goalies in the organization definitly takes a hit with that trade. But a Top 6 of Kovy-Tavares/Pevs-Little, Kozy-Pevs/Espo-JVR would be nice though.
I don't know, because JvR still hasn't played one minute un the NHL. And Pavalec has potential to be better then Lehtonen, or as good as he's...

Like onell said, I think JvR is just "promising"...

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03-01-2009, 08:58 AM
  #115
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In a perfect world, we would be able to hold onto Pavelec and let him develop at his own pace...then make a decision on if we keep him.

However the Thrashers are cash strapped and struggling. If the Thrashers are very deep at one position, they need to move some pieces to help out elsewhere. There is no question the franchise is very weak when it comes to potential Top 6 forwards.

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03-01-2009, 09:06 AM
  #116
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Carrozzi will not be eligible to play pro next year, as he'll still be 19.

He will probably start in the ECHL when he turns pro anyway. Twenty-year-olds don't usually go directly to the AHL. Pavelec was an exception.

Carrozzi fell off during this year.


Last edited by Holly Gunning: 03-01-2009 at 01:20 PM.
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Old
03-01-2009, 12:39 PM
  #117
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Originally Posted by fatschoonerrat View Post
You're getting less credible by the day. Maybe take a day off?
Providing facts makes me less credible?

At least I'm realistic, and don't think that Lehtonen is a "great" goalie.

I would not give up Pavelec for JVR. Pavelec is going to be a star in this league. He's gonna be among top 5 goalies in the NHL within 5 years. Lehtonen, I'd give up easily for a player as great as JVR, but definitely not Pavelec.

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03-01-2009, 01:30 PM
  #118
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Lux, your "facts" (stats) mean absolutely nothing once you actually take them into context....properly.

Are you really trying to say that backup Michael Leighton is a better goaltender than Lehtonen, because he has a better GAA? Do you really think Brent Johnston is a better goaltender? Give me a break.

It's no secret nor revelation that Kari's GAA and SV% will be worse off than some goaltenders. He's been playing for the Thrashers for how many season's now? This team gives up a lot of goals, there defense is often suspect. The teams in the last three years haven't been winners. The team has probably given up more goals in the past 3 seasons than most other teams...... of course his stats are going to be worse off.

Just like players on a winning team will have a far superior +/- RELATIVE to even the best defensive players on a losing team.... even a good goaltender on a losing team is going to have relatively shoddy GAA/SV%. Just due to the nature of the team being so defensively bad.

If you actually take in Kari's actual play and abilities, watching his technical skills, and physical abilities....rather than the stats...... theres no way any person will ever say that Michael Leighton, Brent Johnston are better goaltenders, or probably any of the other goaltenders you tried to use to prove your point.

Has Kari been perfect? Of course not... but your argument that we're all homers and Kari is a terrible goaltender is absolutely ridiculous.

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03-01-2009, 01:35 PM
  #119
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Originally Posted by Whaddagoal View Post
Lux, your "facts" (stats) mean absolutely nothing once you actually take them into context....properly.

Are you really trying to say that backup Michael Leighton is a better goaltender than Lehtonen, because he has a better GAA? Do you really think Brent Johnston is a better goaltender? Give me a break.

It's no secret nor revelation that Kari's GAA and SV% will be worse off than some goaltenders. He's been playing for the Thrashers for how many season's now? This team gives up a lot of goals, there defense is often suspect. The teams in the last three years haven't been winners. The team has probably given up more goals in the past 3 seasons than most other teams...... of course his stats are going to be worse off.

Just like players on a winning team will have a far superior +/- RELATIVE to even the best defensive players on a losing team.... even a good goaltender on a losing team is going to have relatively shoddy GAA/SV%. Just due to the nature of the team being so defensively bad.

If you actually take in Kari's actual play and abilities, watching his technical skills, and physical abilities....rather than the stats...... theres no way any person will ever say that Michael Leighton, Brent Johnston are better goaltenders, or probably any of the other goaltenders you tried to use to prove your point.

Has Kari been perfect? Of course not... but your argument that we're all homers and Kari is a terrible goaltender is absolutely ridiculous.


I can't believe people still rise to the bait when he's trolling. I mean you look at what he writes sometimes you know he can't be serious.

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03-01-2009, 01:48 PM
  #120
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....good point Sneak.

Yeah I fell for it, too ridiculous to be serious. Oh well...

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03-01-2009, 01:54 PM
  #121
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Originally Posted by Lux Aurumque View Post
Take off your blue glasses, Thrashers fans. Lehtonen is NOT a great goalie. I don't know what you have to see to finally understand that.

Let's look at the stats...

Kari is 30th in save percentage. This puts him behind 7 back-up goalies.
Kari is 39th in GAA. The only starter worse than him is Toskala.

Kari is the worst starter in the Southeast, for sure, and the Southeast is the worst division in the league when considering goalies.

CAR: Cam Ward is better than Lehtonen in both statistics. One of the NHL's worst back-ups, Michael Leighton beats Lehtonen in GAA, but has a worse save percentage.
FLA: Both of Florida's goalies are superior to Lehtonen statistically.
TBL: Mike Smith's statistics are also superior to Lehtonen's. Tampa has run three back-ups this year. Kolzig and McKenna have better GAA's than Lehtonen, however, they both have worse save percentages. Karri Ramo is terrible, and is the only goalie in the division to have both a worse GAA and a worse save percentage than Lehtonen.
WSH: Theodore's save percentage is slightly worse than Kari's, but his GAA is much better. However, Brent Johnson is significantly better than Kari in both aspects.
"Kari is the worst starter in the division" is just total baloney.

Kari's number before his injury were not very good. He has been significantly better since he came back. His post-injury numbers are much more in line with his career post-lockout stats.

Lehtonen .912 SV % destroys Cam Ward's .900 SV% if you look at their career numbers. And Cam Ward has had better defense in front of him.

Vokoun has better career numbers .915 than Kari's .912 and Vokoun has always had better defenders in front of him.

Mike Smith has worse career numbers .910 than Kari. He is better this year (.16) but he was much worse last year (.901) when he played more games in front of a quality Dallas Starts defense.

Theodore's career numbers (.908) are worse than Kari's. Theodore is just average this year and he has been brutal over the last several years with only last year in Colorado his only good year. And he had better defenders in front of his during his career than Kari.

Career SV% among Divisional Starters
.915 Vokoun
.912 Lehtonen
.910 Smith
.908 Theordore
.900 C. Ward

hey but don't let the facts get in the way of your hatred for Kari.

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03-01-2009, 09:01 PM
  #122
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The rumor is for pav's. And i would do it in a heartbeat.
Keep lehts, Sign a FA goalie, trade hedberg for pucks, and do a rotational system.

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03-01-2009, 09:19 PM
  #123
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The rumor is for pav's. And i would do it in a heartbeat.
Keep lehts, Sign a FA goalie, trade hedberg for pucks, and do a rotational system.
The rumor is for Lehtonen, and I'd do it in a heartbeat.

Keep Pavelec, sign someone better than Hedberg, make Hedberg goalie coach, and actually have a good tandem for a change, without Let'emin.

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03-01-2009, 11:32 PM
  #124
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Originally Posted by Lux Aurumque View Post
The rumor is for Lehtonen, and I'd do it in a heartbeat.

Keep Pavelec, sign someone better than Hedberg, make Hedberg goalie coach, and actually have a good tandem for a change, without Let'emin.
Do you really believe these rumors that come from TSN? They're putting themselves on par with Eklund considering that they seem to be doing less reporting, and more tabloid journalism. Remember, it's all about ratings, people.

Darren Elliot specifically mentioned during the post game show that Philly is hoping to get Pavelec in a deal at some point.

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03-02-2009, 06:14 AM
  #125
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IMHO JVR is wildly underestimated on these forums. He's going to be a star. But even if the gamble of aquiring him is merely only the expected value of him being a star, I think that it would be a great insurance policy should (god forbid) Ilya Kovulchuk flee for greener pastures. JVR is not going to be Kovalchuk... but he might be able to fill his role in admirably in 3 years.

Kari Lehtonen is underestimated on these forums as well. He has obviously had his struggles, but I think many people forget that goalies don't start coming into thier own until they start approaching 30 years of age. And I think many people forget that a goalies' statistics are correlated to team statistics. Bluntly stated: being on the Thrashers means that Lehtonen's personal stats end up getting compared to goalies like Leighton, Smith, and Ward.

Basically I think a JVR-Lehtonen deal would work for both teams long term. However, GM Waddell would probably be risking his job with this trade because:

a) He has already invested resources and time and a high pick on Lehts, which has not gone unnoticed in Blueland, and

b) The probability of Lehts becoming one of the top-five goalies in the league immedietely after getting traded to the Flyers is sky-high. I'm thinking that it is not at all unfathamoble that Lehtonen could get compared to Nabakov, Kipper, Giguere in such a case. That would look terrible on Waddell's resume, and Thrashers fans would be livid.

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