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Old
02-20-2009, 11:16 AM
  #51
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Originally Posted by Vitto79 View Post
Oh who the hell knows, wait till the deadline and then we can see

Avery is not a for sure as well
Wait to see what? There's no way the Rangers will call up Sanguinetti and have him sit.

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02-20-2009, 11:29 AM
  #52
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
Wait to see what? There's no way the Rangers will call up Sanguinetti and have him sit.
wait to see who is dealt at the deadline. could be crazy or nothing much

I would say Sanguinetti makes the team. Rather have a cheaper younger player as the 6th Dman

I think Rozi is moved maybe even at the deadline

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02-20-2009, 11:31 AM
  #53
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wait to see who is dealt at the deadline. could be crazy or nothing much

I would say Sanguinetti makes the team. Rather have a cheaper younger player as the 6th Dman

I think Rozi is moved maybe even at the deadline
The point is, if they have Sanguinetti here, it will be to play. He's not going to be the 7th defenseman.

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02-20-2009, 11:32 AM
  #54
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Originally Posted by robruckus View Post
I just think things have changed drastically since the lockout.

I'm not saying Sjostrom is part of the problem.
I believe you're right in a sense that the 4th line has to be more skillful now than before the lockout. Back then was the two line pass and guys could clutch and grab without being penalized. And I think that's why Sjostrom, right now, fits that role so well. He's a much better hockey player than Hollweg. Betts and Sjostrom are a good combination not just for the PK, but also for having a respectful 4 line as well.

So I agree that it doesn't hurt for teams to have better 4th lines than before the lockout, but they don't necessarily have to score either. Keeping the other team from scoring, staying away from dumb penalties and providing a good fore check is more than enough.

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02-20-2009, 11:53 AM
  #55
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Someone said move Betts because it gets rid of another bottom six player who cannot score 10 goals? I need to understand the logic in that. How many goals is a team's fourth line centerman supposed to have? I wouldn't guess 10. The problem is this team's fourth line player plays too many minutes, and there's two schools of thought there: because the coach likes the safety or that if 2-3 minutes were dispersed elsewhere you won't see a difference in goals scored, only in tired players. Betts is an asset. And he's fairly paid if not underpaid at $615k. You keep that guy at all costs. He won't return more than his value and the team doesn't have his replacement.

I can see jettisoning Sjostrom. He'll likely cost around $900k for the Rangers to qualify and keep him. He's fine, but fourth line wingers who can skate and kill penalties are dimes a dozen and you could save a couple hundred K there with someone else. I'm fine with an AHLer in a fourth line role if the fourth line because one that plays 4-6 minutes per night. And I'm looking to save every dime. It's not $2MM, but I never take the attitude of not doing something because it's not significant enough.

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02-20-2009, 12:02 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by robruckus View Post
Uh, what?

Are you considering Ortmeyer? Hollweg's 50 games? Kondratiev's 30? When exactly did we do this? And what the hell are you talking about?
How quickly people forget that this team was just blown up right before the lockout...

You suggested letting the kids come up and develop together. That's exactly what happened the first season out of the lockout, when guys like Moore, Ortmeyer, Hollweg, Tyutin, Prucha, Lundqvist, and Kondratiev (before he was traded) all played significant roles on the team as rookies. You may not be satisfied with how they turned out, but it happened nonetheless. That's a lot of rookies to introduce at once on any team. Moreover, there's no guaranteeing the kids currently in Hartford would turn out any better than that batch did if we sold everyone off and called them up en masse right now.

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02-20-2009, 08:09 PM
  #57
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I think two of Rozsival, Mara and Kalinin won't be back, leaving room for two of Sauer, Potter and Sanguinetti to make the lineup. AA will be in the lineup. The Rangers should be able to bring back Betts, while re-signing Zherdev, Dubiinsky, Callahan and Korpikoski.

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02-20-2009, 08:18 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by jas View Post
I think two of Rozsival, Mara and Kalinin won't be back, leaving room for two of Sauer, Potter and Sanguinetti to make the lineup. AA will be in the lineup. The Rangers should be able to bring back Betts, while re-signing Zherdev, Dubiinsky, Callahan and Korpikoski.
Rozsival I think will be traded either at the deadline for a Vaclav Prospal type player or on Draft day. I hope Sangs makes the jump, but I think the most NHL ready is Sauer.

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02-20-2009, 08:23 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by GongShowHockeyNYR View Post
Rozsival I think will be traded either at the deadline for a Vaclav Prospal type player or on Draft day. I hope Sangs makes the jump, but I think the most NHL ready is Sauer.
Yeah, I think Sauer just needed to get this year under him. I think he's primed to make the jump. If Sanguinetti's not ready, I think Reitz and Potter end up splitting time. I'd like to move Rozsival, and re-sign Mara for more than a $1 million per less a year...that difference and not bringing back Kalinin allows the Rangers to re-sign probably all four of Z, Dubi, Cally and Korpi.

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02-20-2009, 08:30 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by jas View Post
Yeah, I think Sauer just needed to get this year under him. I think he's primed to make the jump. If Sanguinetti's not ready, I think Reitz and Potter end up splitting time. I'd like to move Rozsival, and re-sign Mara for more than a $1 million per less a year...that difference and not bringing back Kalinin allows the Rangers to re-sign probably all four of Z, Dubi, Cally and Korpi.
They will have around 14 mil. And I think Mara's injuring is kind of an addition by subtracting by helping us re-sign him in the off-season. If we trade Rozi that is 19 mil in cap space. We will have more than enough to sign Cally, Dubi, Z, and Korpedo.

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02-20-2009, 09:15 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by GongShowHockeyNYR View Post
Nonsense, Youth > UFA Disaster
You misunderstood. I said sad, because other than those few rookies, the rest of the team would be largely the same. Obviously, I'm glad at least some youth is coming up. The UFA disasters are already here. That's what I'm sad about.

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Originally Posted by we want cup View Post
Gives us a guy who can PK, provide an offensive side on the lower lines, who's a good shootout weapon.

Sure Ryan Callahan COULD take his minutes, but then that takes Cally is getting tired out doing more of something that Freddy (IMO) is better at.

Cally has 13 goals this season, having gotten substantial time on the top two lines. Sjo has 5 goals, spending all of his time with Betts. Almost all of his goals have been big individual efforts. I really don't see a huge difference between the two.
You can say the same thing about Callahan. Most of his best plays are off of huge individual efforts. There's no doubt that Callahan is not a first line player, on a great team, he's a third liner. But he's a great third liner, capable of potting 20 goals. I don't think Sjostrom will ever score 20 goals. He's not bad as a 4th liner.

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If Redden doesn't improve over the next year why wouldn't the Rangers waive him? Are we still living in the fantasy world that Sather never admits a mistake....

I predict over the next two seasons its very possible for Redden to be waived and Rozsival to be traded....I also think it's possible for Gomez to be traded because teams looking to get to the salary floor won't mind adding a contract that counts higher towards the cap then is actually worth.....

Look, I killed the fans this past offseason that said this team wouldn't have a cap troubles after this season. I argued the cap was going to go down and that the Naslund contract was gong to come back to haunt the team because of the NMC. The truth is if the Rangers wanted to they could waive Redden and a lot of problems are solved. Remember the Garden is paying Stephon Marberry to stay home, WE have all witnessed Dolan waste money on mistake players for both organizations...Lets not act like he wouldn't do the same with Redden....

I think Sather should try to move Redden for Penner in a bad contract for bad contract swap.
Comparing Redden to Marbury is foolhardy. This waving Redden thing is a fantasy. It isn't going to happen, regardless of whether or not it's possible. The other examples of stuff like that happening have a lot of other circumstances around them that make them very different situations.

Until this happens, and I doubt it ever will, or at least not toward the last year or two of his contract, it's a fantasy and nothing more. Do I wish it would happen? Sure, but it probably won't.

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Originally Posted by gravytrain6t View Post
IMO, Sjostrom plays on the 4th line but with this roster, he can easily be moved up. He's got wheels and can get to the net. I would have liked to try him with Gomez.
Yes, Gomez hasn't made it work with numerous hall-of-famers, but Sjostrom is the answer? The guy whose career high is 10 goals? Sjostrom doesn't have the skills, the hands or the moves to play on a first line for any team in this league.

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Didn't we just do this three seasons ago...?
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Originally Posted by squishy View Post
How quickly people forget that this team was just blown up right before the lockout...

You suggested letting the kids come up and develop together. That's exactly what happened the first season out of the lockout, when guys like Moore, Ortmeyer, Hollweg, Tyutin, Prucha, Lundqvist, and Kondratiev (before he was traded) all played significant roles on the team as rookies. You may not be satisfied with how they turned out, but it happened nonetheless. That's a lot of rookies to introduce at once on any team. Moreover, there's no guaranteeing the kids currently in Hartford would turn out any better than that batch did if we sold everyone off and called them up en masse right now.
The problem was that due to the success of Lundqvist and Jagr, this strategy was abandoned, as was any chance of nabbing the high draft picks that this team sorely lacked. If I had my way, we'd go back and finish that process, something that should have been done 2 years ago when it became clear the Jagr/Shanahan express had gone as far as it was going to go.

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Originally Posted by GongShowHockeyNYR View Post
They will have around 14 mil. And I think Mara's injuring is kind of an addition by subtracting by helping us re-sign him in the off-season. If we trade Rozi that is 19 mil in cap space. We will have more than enough to sign Cally, Dubi, Z, and Korpedo.
Probably, but there won't be much room left to improve the team through free agency. The most we can hope for is some very minor signings, which means, unless Anisimov and the other 1 or two rookies that make the team, have incredible seasons, you're looking at another very frustrating season of mediocre Ranger hockey.

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02-20-2009, 09:19 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by Sting36e View Post
You misunderstood. I said sad, because other than those few rookies, the rest of the team would be largely the same. Obviously, I'm glad at least some youth is coming up. The UFA disasters are already here. That's what I'm sad about.
Sorry, then.


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Probably, but there won't be much room left to improve the team through free agency. The most we can hope for is some very minor signings, which means, unless Anisimov and the other 1 or two rookies that make the team, have incredible seasons, you're looking at another very frustrating season of mediocre Ranger hockey.
Just have low expectations like me. Next year, all I hope is for the young kids, to get experience and grow into better hockey players. I already have it planned out for when we have to re-sign Grachev. Drury is off the books at around he becomes an RFA. I am thinking all about the future. After the explosion in Dallas. I haven't really focused on what we could do now, rather than in the future.

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Old
02-20-2009, 09:25 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by GongShowHockeyNYR View Post
Sorry, then.




Just have low expectations like me. Next year, all I hope is for the young kids, to get experience and grow into better hockey players. I already have it planned out for when we have to re-sign Grachev. Drury is off the books at around he becomes an RFA. I am thinking all about the future. After the explosion in Dallas. I haven't really focused on what we could do now, rather than in the future.
Well this is my biggest issue with Sather. I'm not saying it's impossible for him to build this team into a good team, simply that it's going to take a very long time, and at this point, it's still a total crapshoot. In my opinion, rebuilding the right way would have resulted in a better team and would actually take LESS time than this slow, plodding process that not only will take many years, but also forces us to watch incredibly boring hockey with an infuriatingly average hockey team for about half a decade.

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02-20-2009, 09:27 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by Sting36e View Post
Well this is my biggest issue with Sather. I'm not saying it's impossible for him to build this team into a good team, simply that it's going to take a very long time, and at this point, it's still a total crapshoot. In my opinion, rebuilding the right way would have resulted in a better team and would actually take LESS time than this slow, plodding process that not only will take many years, but also forces us to watch incredibly boring hockey with an infuriatingly average hockey team for about half a decade.


Remember we are in transition

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02-20-2009, 09:29 PM
  #65
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Well this is my biggest issue with Sather. I'm not saying it's impossible for him to build this team into a good team, simply that it's going to take a very long time, and at this point, it's still a total crapshoot. In my opinion, rebuilding the right way would have resulted in a better team and would actually take LESS time than this slow, plodding process that not only will take many years, but also forces us to watch incredibly boring hockey with an infuriatingly average hockey team for about half a decade.
I agree 100% with you. I think the reason we aren't in full rebuild is because Jagr came back to pre-capitals Jagr, and we were forced into a competing team.

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02-20-2009, 09:33 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by Sting36e View Post
Probably, but there won't be much room left to improve the team through free agency. The most we can hope for is some very minor signings, which means, unless Anisimov and the other 1 or two rookies that make the team, have incredible seasons, you're looking at another very frustrating season of mediocre Ranger hockey.
No, the Rangers aren't going to improve through free agency. But, I do think there is a young core that is worth building around. You've got the franchise goalie who's still young. You've got Staal establishing himself, and I think we'll see Sauer and possibly Sanguinetti here next, with Del Zotto not that far away. As for the forwards, you've got Zherdev, Dubinsky, Callahan and Korpikoski, with Anisimov on the way. And, Grachev is a a major wild card. The loss of Cherepanov is a setback, and it's why I'd like to see the Rangers try to pry Radulov's rights from Nashville. You've got a #1 in a very deep draft, with the opportunity to grab a quality scoring forward. The problem is having put so much money in players who were not elite nor able to be the leadership focal point. Gomez has to go, because you have to clear out the salary space. You may have to take back a large salary for a year or two, but, even in 2011, a player like Frolov could hit free agency.

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02-20-2009, 10:07 PM
  #67
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No, the Rangers aren't going to improve through free agency.
But, I do think there is a young core that is worth building around. You've got the franchise goalie who's still young. You've got Staal establishing himself, and I think we'll see Sauer and possibly Sanguinetti here next, with Del Zotto not that far away. As for the forwards, you've got Zherdev, Dubinsky, Callahan and Korpikoski, with Anisimov on the way. And, Grachev is a a major wild card. The loss of Cherepanov is a setback, and it's why I'd like to see the Rangers try to pry Radulov's rights from Nashville. You've got a #1 in a very deep draft, with the opportunity to grab a quality scoring forward. The problem is having put so much money in players who were not elite nor able to be the leadership focal point. Gomez has to go, because you have to clear out the salary space. You may have to take back a large salary for a year or two, but, even in 2011, a player like Frolov could hit free agency.
Even if Grachev is better than most of us expect, even if he's a top notch first line goalscorer, the fact is, compared to more than half of the teams in the league, the group of players you're talking about simply isn't that impressive. Not saying they aren't good young players worth keeping, just saying by themselves, they aren't all that much to brag about. A lot of teams have a lot more quality youth either already on their team or in their prospect pools, and that starts with our biggest competitors: Philly, NJ, PITT, WSH, BOS.

Obviously, I agree, Gomez has to go. But good luck with that. Those people on this board that think he has any value are delusional, IMO. NO ONE is going to take this guy unless we severely overpay.

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02-20-2009, 10:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Sting36e View Post
Even if Grachev is better than most of us expect, even if he's a top notch first line goalscorer, the fact is, compared to more than half of the teams in the league, the group of players you're talking about simply isn't that impressive. Not saying they aren't good young players worth keeping, just saying by themselves, they aren't all that much to brag about. A lot of teams have a lot more quality youth either already on their team or in their prospect pools, and that starts with our biggest competitors: Philly, NJ, PITT, WSH, BOS.

Obviously, I agree, Gomez has to go. But good luck with that. Those people on this board that think he has any value are delusional, IMO. NO ONE is going to take this guy unless we severely overpay.
Pittsburgh has horrible depth in the minors and prospects, and I wouldn't be excited for the Devils prospect pool as well. Washington has a good group as well as Boston, and I think Philly and us are about even. I think Grachev has the most upside in our prospect pool, and Anisimov can turn into a good #1 center, or a great #2 center. Sangs and MDZ have potential to be Brian Campbell/Dan Boyle clones, Stepan has potential to be a good #2 center, and Byers is a better version of Voros. Don't forget how young our team is as well with Dubinsky, Zherdev, Staal, Callahan, and Korpikoski, whom are all no where near done developing. Dawes I think his days are done this year as a Ranger. I agree that Gomez has 0 value. The only way he is being moved is if we are out of the playoffs, and a team like Columbus is desperate to make a move, and at most I think it'd be a 2nd, or a 3rd and a good prospect with 3rd line upside.

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02-20-2009, 10:32 PM
  #69
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Originally Posted by GongShowHockeyNYR View Post
Pittsburgh has horrible depth in the minors and prospects, and I wouldn't be excited for the Devils prospect pool as well. Washington has a good group as well as Boston, and I think Philly and us are about even. I think Grachev has the most upside in our prospect pool, and Anisimov can turn into a good #1 center, or a great #2 center. Sangs and MDZ have potential to be Brian Campbell/Dan Boyle clones, Stepan has potential to be a good #2 center, and Byers is a better version of Voros. Don't forget how young our team is as well with Dubinsky, Zherdev, Staal, Callahan, and Korpikoski, whom are all no where near done developing. Dawes I think his days are done this year as a Ranger. I agree that Gomez has 0 value. The only way he is being moved is if we are out of the playoffs, and a team like Columbus is desperate to make a move, and at most I think it'd be a 2nd, or a 3rd and a good prospect with 3rd line upside.
I can't agree with this assessment. If you think this season is a precursor to the Penguins future, well, you're entitled to your opinion, but I disagree. I think this season is a fluke, and by next season, that team will be back to being one of the better teams in the league. Even if they eventually get to the point where they have to trade Malkin, they would receive a King's Ransom for him.

I also don't see how you think we're even with Philadelphia. If you're talking about strictly players not in the NHL yet, perhaps, but Carter and Richards alone dwarf anything we have going on except for possibly Grachev. But they also have JVR, Parent, Coburn, Sbisa, and Giroux. They also have a lot of solid future role players in their system, like we do. The difference is they have far more top-end talent than we do. Their big weakness, as usual, is goaltending. But Holmgren has done a great job, so I'm willing to bet that will be addressed sooner than later.

As for New Jersey, their prospect pool is pretty shallow, but that's because their best youth is already on the team. Parise alone is enough, but they've got Zajac, they've got Tedenby, who is going to end up being a steal for when they took him. Bergfors looks like he might be a bust, but they've got some nice defensemen, too. Corrente, Eckford. Basically, like with Carter and Richards in Philly, Parise is so good and so young that they're going to be set in that regard for years to come.

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02-20-2009, 10:43 PM
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Giroux, Parent, and Coburn are already playing regular minutes and not in the NHL only JVR and Sbisa are looking good, and JVR may be getting traded. In players not in the NHL thats what I mean in the comparison, and by Pittsburgh I mean none of there prospects seem to be...well...good.

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02-20-2009, 11:06 PM
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Giroux, Parent, and Coburn are already playing regular minutes and not in the NHL only JVR and Sbisa are looking good, and JVR may be getting traded. In players not in the NHL thats what I mean in the comparison, and by Pittsburgh I mean none of there prospects seem to be...well...good.
They have a few, mainly Goligoski, but that's really not a big issue considering they also have a pretty good goalie who is very young, Letang, Staal, and two of the three best forwards in the league, whose ages are 21 and 22. They'll be fine. They're pool was diminished because of the Hossa trade, and I can't blame them for pulling the trigger and going for it. They got to the finals and lost to a very, very good team.

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02-20-2009, 11:35 PM
  #72
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Naslund Gomez Zherdev
Korpikoski Anisimov Dubinski
Grachev Drury Callahan
Sjostrom Betts Orr

Staal Mara
Sanguinetti Redden
Girardi Reitz

Henke
A. Nother

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02-20-2009, 11:37 PM
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Naslund Gomez Zherdev
Korpikoski Anisimov Dubinski
Grachev Drury Callahan
Sjostrom Betts Orr

Staal Mara
Sanguinetti Redden
Girardi Reitz

Henke
A. Nother


not sure if id actually like for zherdev to get a big contract offer and get a bunch of good picks so we can sign our other players. if we can get rid of rozy and gomez or reddens contract id call sather a god.

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02-21-2009, 12:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jas View Post
No, the Rangers aren't going to improve through free agency. But, I do think there is a young core that is worth building around. You've got the franchise goalie who's still young. You've got Staal establishing himself, and I think we'll see Sauer and possibly Sanguinetti here next, with Del Zotto not that far away. As for the forwards, you've got Zherdev, Dubinsky, Callahan and Korpikoski, with Anisimov on the way. And, Grachev is a a major wild card. The loss of Cherepanov is a setback, and it's why I'd like to see the Rangers try to pry Radulov's rights from Nashville. You've got a #1 in a very deep draft, with the opportunity to grab a quality scoring forward. The problem is having put so much money in players who were not elite nor able to be the leadership focal point. Gomez has to go, because you have to clear out the salary space. You may have to take back a large salary for a year or two, but, even in 2011, a player like Frolov could hit free agency.
Don't forget about Byers. That's the one thing that hurt this year. Was losing him for the season. I hope he comes back in full tenacious form next year. With he and Avery, that's enough to drive any team in sane.

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