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Bobby Ryan for Jordan Staal

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Old
02-21-2009, 02:38 AM
  #76
Letang fan 58
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I think Bobby Ryan has a great future ahead of himself but people are completely underrating Staal right now. Sure his best accomplishment to this point was 29 goals as a rook..........but he was freaking 18 years old at the time, It took Ryan until he was 21 to make it full time. Staal is still 18 months younger than Ryan. How much difference was there in a couple of other players like Jeff Carter, and Mike Richards over the past 18 months? 18 months can mean a hell of a lot for guys this young who have a ******** of potential. This proposal is a mile closer than most people make it out to be.

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02-21-2009, 02:45 AM
  #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Randall Graves View Post
And he's accomplished how much more?

Pretty sad that Staal is being outscored by a rookie that's played fewer games?
Dude you are hillarious at best. Ryan is still a year and a half older than Staal. Ryan was a beauty in the AHL playoffs the last cple yrs........While Staal was in the NHL playoffs. I guess its all about points though right! You are the same type of guy who would take a Paul Kariya over a Mike Richards because a Kariya type might put up a few more points.

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02-21-2009, 02:48 AM
  #78
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Originally Posted by Mobey View Post
That'd be great if it were valid. Jordan Staal is averaging 20:08 minutes per game, while Bobby Ryan is averaging 14:45 minutes per game.

Anaheim fans would be able to attest to this more than I, but I know for a long while he was given sub par linemates as well, such as George Parros.
Neither one has good linemates, Staal doesnt get first power play time though and Ryan does. Staal's 20+ a game is spent mostly in a defensive role.

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02-21-2009, 02:53 AM
  #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phaneuf_fan_3 View Post
Neither one has good linemates, Staal doesnt get first power play time though and Ryan does. Staal's 20+ a game is spent mostly in a defensive role.
Bobby Ryan isn't always on the first PP unit. In the games I've seen of the Ducks, he is usually on the second unit as well, but that could have change.

Maybe Staal is asked to play that role because he has limited offensive ability?

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02-21-2009, 03:14 AM
  #80
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Originally Posted by Randall Graves View Post
The ducks will gladly take him.

Niedermayer,Pahlsson and Kunitz for Staal and Goligoski Pens then can trade Whitney for another winger and we'll take salary
DO NOT trade Nieds to the Pens.
He needs to be traded to the Devils

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02-21-2009, 03:22 AM
  #81
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Originally Posted by phaneuf_fan_3 View Post
Neither one has good linemates, Staal doesnt get first power play time though and Ryan does. Staal's 20+ a game is spent mostly in a defensive role.
Ryan's on the second unit, with studs like Ebbett and Morrison.

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02-21-2009, 04:47 AM
  #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phaneuf_fan_3 View Post
Dude you are hillarious at best. Ryan is still a year and a half older than Staal. Ryan was a beauty in the AHL playoffs the last cple yrs........While Staal was in the NHL playoffs. I guess its all about points though right! You are the same type of guy who would take a Paul Kariya over a Mike Richards because a Kariya type might put up a few more points.
Or he's the type of guy that realizes Bobby Ryan has shown more in 3/4ths of one NHL season with crap linemates and limited minutes than Staal has in 2 and 3/4th seasons of full icetime and failing at wing with Crosby and Malkin.

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02-21-2009, 11:47 AM
  #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mobey View Post
Bobby Ryan isn't always on the first PP unit. In the games I've seen of the Ducks, he is usually on the second unit as well, but that could have change.

Maybe Staal is asked to play that role because he has limited offensive ability?
Well Ryan might have went down to the 2nd PP unit after Selanne returned, that is possible. Staal is asked to play that role because he can play that role and its the role he's best at right now.

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02-21-2009, 11:54 AM
  #84
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Originally Posted by phaneuf_fan_3 View Post
Well Ryan might have went down to the 2nd PP unit after Selanne returned, that is possible. Staal is asked to play that role because he can play that role and its the role he's best at right now.
Bobby Ryan made Parros a good player.

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02-21-2009, 03:21 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by Addiction View Post


Maybe if Staal somehow made 2 carbon copies of himself then maybe Pitt could pry Ryan out of Anaheim.
. . .it can be done. . i've seen it. .

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02-21-2009, 03:27 PM
  #86
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I remember early in the year people laughed at Fletch for trying to trade the Leafs 1st round pick (top 6 protected I think) for Ryan + Schneider (since the Ducks wanted to unload Schneider).

Doesn't seem so bad now.

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02-22-2009, 12:55 AM
  #87
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Originally Posted by grabo84 View Post
My god. If this deal was proposed at the start of the year everyone would be on the opposite fence. It's a lot closer than people are making it out to be, but Pittsburgh would have to throw in somebody like Whitney to make it work.
It was proposed earlier this season, and Penguin fans were up in arms that Ryan was even being considered an even trade with Staal.

I agree that it's closer than some people are making it seem, but I think that has far more to do with Ryan's inexperience in the NHL than what they will probably amount to. I don't think anyone who has seem them both play would disagree that Ryan is just the better talent. The kid is lightning in a 44 ounce bottle. He's been tossed around by Carlyle on the 1st, 2nd, and 4th line and has managed to put up points no matter where he was or who he played with. When Selanne went down with an injury and Ryan was put on the 1st PP unit their PP % increased significantly. I think it was about 30% with Ryan on it.

I'd love to see Staal in Anaheim as our 2nd line center. He's good. Far better than some people give him credit for being. But there is absolutely no way Anaheim even considers an even trade of Ryan for Staal. Management loves the kid. Only Getzlaf is valued more highly than he is, and considering it's Ryan Getzlaf, that's high praise indeed.

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02-22-2009, 01:58 AM
  #88
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I've never seen a group of hockey fans hype up players so much after producing for half a season. First it was Kessel early on, now it is Ryan. Let them actually play more then 1 season before they are declared franchise players.

If GM's thought the way most of the people on this board did then Pittsburgh should have traded Robbie Brown halfway through one of his monster seasons because it would have netted them like 3 top players and 2 first round picks.

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02-22-2009, 02:00 AM
  #89
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Originally Posted by Pens87-71-66 View Post
I've never seen a group of hockey fans hype up players so much after producing for half a season. First it was Kessel early on, now it is Ryan. Let them actually play more then 1 season before they are declared franchise players.

If GM's thought the way most of the people on this board did then Pittsburgh should have traded Robbie Brown halfway through one of his monster seasons because it would have netted them like 3 top players and 2 first round picks.
Really? You're a Penguins fan, and you've never seen that kind of hype?

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02-22-2009, 02:12 AM
  #90
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Only on these boards.

I understand being excited that a young player is doing well but to put so much value on someone who has played half a season is ridiculous. I'm not saying Penguins fans are immune (the amount of hype on Goligoski early was just stupid) but again i only saw that kind of craziness on these boards.

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02-22-2009, 02:14 AM
  #91
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Originally Posted by Pens87-71-66 View Post
Only on these boards.

I understand being excited that a young player is doing well but to put so much value on someone who has played half a season is ridiculous. I'm not saying Penguins fans are immune (the amount of hype on Goligoski early was just stupid) but again i only saw that kind of craziness on these boards.
Rofl. I wasn't talking about Goligoski. I was talking about Sid and Malkin, who are great examples of the early hype you mentioned.

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02-22-2009, 02:21 AM
  #92
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They also stepped in on day 1 and made impact as the draft hype had expected. Guys like Ryan and Kessel were not expected to be a step right in and up until this season most people considered them to not be top prospects anymore.

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02-22-2009, 02:54 AM
  #93
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Originally Posted by daethfromabove1979 View Post
staals rookie season must have been quite a fluke because he has been poison the last two years.. this deal would never happen
Staal is a solid player but he just doesn't have elite potential like Ryan might. Dont sell Staal short, he's going to be worth every penny of the 3.5 mil or so extension that he's getting next season. However, the Pens just have too much money tied up at center and nothing left over for their wings.

Again, Staal is good, maybe even damn good but Ryan is DAMN good now and maybe even GREAT in the future. there is no reason for the Ducks to move him, none at all.

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02-22-2009, 03:04 AM
  #94
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Originally Posted by phaneuf_fan_3 View Post
Neither one has good linemates, Staal doesnt get first power play time though and Ryan does. Staal's 20+ a game is spent mostly in a defensive role.

Lol, yeah, most "convinently" forget this little fact. Stall is put out there to STOP the other teams top line, not to score. OIf the Pens were to trade eitehr Crosby or Malkin and Stall were moved up to the 2nd line then he'd consentate on his offense more and he'd have better numbers. To me it shows his versatiliy, not ant limitations and I'm not a Pens fan, I'm a flyers fan. Still, I'd take Ryan over Stall but Staal is no slouch, that's what I'm saying.

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02-22-2009, 03:35 AM
  #95
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Originally Posted by phaneuf_fan_3 View Post
I think Bobby Ryan has a great future ahead of himself but people are completely underrating Staal right now. Sure his best accomplishment to this point was 29 goals as a rook..........but he was freaking 18 years old at the time, It took Ryan until he was 21 to make it full time. Staal is still 18 months younger than Ryan. How much difference was there in a couple of other players like Jeff Carter, and Mike Richards over the past 18 months? 18 months can mean a hell of a lot for guys this young who have a ******** of potential. This proposal is a mile closer than most people make it out to be.
It took Ryan til he was 21 because the ducks don't rush their prospects to fill "needs" they allow them to develop and bring them along when they are ready.

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02-22-2009, 03:36 AM
  #96
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Originally Posted by phaneuf_fan_3 View Post
Dude you are hillarious at best. Ryan is still a year and a half older than Staal. Ryan was a beauty in the AHL playoffs the last cple yrs........While Staal was in the NHL playoffs. I guess its all about points though right! You are the same type of guy who would take a Paul Kariya over a Mike Richards because a Kariya type might put up a few more points.
Half a year older...lol so basically the same age.

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02-22-2009, 04:17 AM
  #97
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Originally Posted by Sojourn View Post
I'd love to see Staal in Anaheim as our 2nd line center. He's good. Far better than some people give him credit for being. But there is absolutely no way Anaheim even considers an even trade of Ryan for Staal. Management loves the kid. Only Getzlaf is valued more highly than he is, and considering it's Ryan Getzlaf, that's high praise indeed.
I'm not going to comment on values, as I think it is obvious that Anaheim would never move Bobby Ryan for less than ridiculous overpayment. But I think its interesting with the Getzlaf example, as I personally think of Staal as someone who resembles Getzlaf a great deal, and not just because their physical frames are so alike.
Certainly, you don't see the playmaking skills of present day Getzlaf in Staal now, but then again 20 year old Ryan Getzlaf didn't look like present Getzlaf either, when he got himself 14 goals and 25 assists in 55 games in his rookie season (Staal presently has 15 goals and 17 assists in 60 games playing on the third line with very limited PP opportunities).

There's a lot of growing still to do, but whereas Staal's defensive game is and has become even more well developed for his age, it doesn't help his offensive game much that he has no possibility of being a scoring center with us and will playing with players who aren't top6 wingers either.
Another indication of what the presence of Sid and Malkin means for Staal's point production is something we get when moving back to Getzlaf's rookie year again. Of those 39 points back then 24 of them came from the PP (10 of the 14 goals).
Staal has only 6 PP points (2 goals) this season.

Ultimately there's just no telling whether Staal makes the same kind of progression once he gets into a situation where he has more chances. One day he will be in such a situation though, as he isn't going to be third choice for all of his career.

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02-22-2009, 04:19 AM
  #98
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Originally Posted by Randall Graves View Post
It took Ryan til he was 21 because the ducks don't rush their prospects to fill "needs" they allow them to develop and bring them along when they are ready.
Well... that, and cap management.

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02-22-2009, 04:43 AM
  #99
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Originally Posted by kyle evs48 View Post
Rofl. I wasn't talking about Goligoski. I was talking about Sid and Malkin, who are great examples of the early hype you mentioned.

They're really not the best examples. Sid's won a Hart, Malkin could win one this year. The great example you're thinking of is Staal. Ryan's being bashed for a great half season (out of about half a season played) while Staal's great rookie season (our of 2 3/4 seasons played) is still being brought up like the rest of his career didn't happen? And why is everyone ignoring the fact that Staal made a team as an 18 year old that was bad enough to get the third pick of the draft the year before?

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02-22-2009, 06:40 AM
  #100
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Originally Posted by Randall Graves View Post
Half a year older...lol so basically the same age.
Not basically the same age

Bobby Ryan was born March 17, 1987

Jordan Staal was born September 10, 1988

Almost exactly a year and a half age difference

Obviously, Ryan has shown to be more of a natural offensively.

Staal seems more raw in that regard, still developing, but has awareness and instincts defensively that most young players don't have.

I doubt Staal will ever be the scorer Ryan is, but he could be a more complete forward than Ryan down the road.

The Ducks have no incentive to do this deal and they won't, but let's see where Jordan is in a few years. Hopefully, he'll wind up on a team that actually needs him at center and can play him at his natural position with talented wingers the way that Ryan gets to play his natural RW with talented players around him like Getzlaf, Perry etc.

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