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Old
02-20-2009, 05:15 PM
  #1
djavan
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jason spezza...

can the sens really win with him?

i mean really he's making a ton and in spite of what someone debated with me a while ago that he' s been their most consistent player all season - mind you during the team's best streak all year he had 6pts in 5 games - the new coach has already benched him in the 3rd period of a game!

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02-20-2009, 05:17 PM
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Yes, they can win with him. What kind of a question is that?

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02-20-2009, 05:19 PM
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Yes, they can. He is one of the best centres in the league.

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02-20-2009, 05:19 PM
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The Sens are losing because outside of Spezza, Alfie, Heatley, and Phillips, they got crap to work with. I'd like to see any team win with the non-existent depth that the Sens have.

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02-20-2009, 05:22 PM
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djavan
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Originally Posted by Ishdul View Post
Yes, they can win with him. What kind of a question is that?
well, you tell me what the problem is, cause they certainly haven't done it in the last over 100 games... and that's not to lay it all on him, but during the team's best streak of the season he was not impressive

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02-20-2009, 05:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Murderlizer View Post
The Sens are losing because outside of Spezza, Alfie, Heatley, and Phillips, they got crap to work with. I'd like to see any team win with the non-existent depth that the Sens have.
but if that's the case then wouldn't you expect malkin and cosby like numbers from them this season...

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02-20-2009, 05:42 PM
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They went to the finals with Spezza... So, yes, the Senators can win with him.

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02-20-2009, 05:44 PM
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Originally Posted by djavan View Post
but if that's the case then wouldn't you expect malkin and cosby like numbers from them this season...
Sure, if you think Alfie, Spez, and Heatley can play like Malkin and Crosby. Which no one does, unless you do.

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02-20-2009, 05:49 PM
  #9
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Originally Posted by djavan View Post
well, you tell me what the problem is, cause they certainly haven't done it in the last over 100 games... and that's not to lay it all on him, but during the team's best streak of the season he was not impressive
All offense except Alfie, Spezza, and Heatley? Their defense and goaltending could definitely use some help too.

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02-20-2009, 06:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djavan View Post
can the sens really win with him?

i mean really he's making a ton and in spite of what someone debated with me a while ago that he' s been their most consistent player all season - mind you during the team's best streak all year he had 6pts in 5 games - the new coach has already benched him in the 3rd period of a game!
Clouston is doing what everyone, particularly Hitchcock, said had to be done. He's COACHING Spezza. He's punishing him for playing poorly and rewarding those who play well (Fisher and Vermette). That will likely change and Spezza will have to give a damn to get in the good books. No one's taken this approach yet, all Spezza's had is Martin and Hartsy (screw offense, back check or die), Paddock (undirected talent ftw). The only exception was Murray (who was good and led Spezza to career years). Spezza can lead this team to victory, he's VERY good.

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02-20-2009, 06:11 PM
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We'll take him.

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Old
02-20-2009, 06:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by familyguyman View Post
Clouston is doing what everyone, particularly Hitchcock, said had to be done. He's COACHING Spezza. He's punishing him for playing poorly and rewarding those who play well (Fisher and Vermette). That will likely change and Spezza will have to give a damn to get in the good books. No one's taken this approach yet, all Spezza's had is Martin and Hartsy (screw offense, back check or die), Paddock (undirected talent ftw). The only exception was Murray (who was good and led Spezza to career years). Spezza can lead this team to victory, he's VERY good.
Awesome. Hope he gets the chance to keep that going, then, because from here it looks like that front office may end up exploding before too long.

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Old
02-20-2009, 06:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Ishdul View Post
Yes, they can win with him. What kind of a question is that?
I am going to guess that he is asking if Speeza is ever going to be the competitor that Mike Richards or Vinny Lecavalier or Ovechkin are. Not all of them are. Speeza is not, but Alfredsson is.

Speeza is probably more of a Scottie Pippen type. I would not trade him because of that though.

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02-20-2009, 07:05 PM
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Pippen won 6 championships and is one of the best players to ever play the game.

Weird comparison.

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Old
02-20-2009, 07:15 PM
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djavan View Post
can the sens really win with him?

i mean really he's making a ton and in spite of what someone debated with me a while ago that he' s been their most consistent player all season - mind you during the team's best streak all year he had 6pts in 5 games - the new coach has already benched him in the 3rd period of a game!
Ottawa is becoming a black hole that sucks all of the enormous talent out of their star centers. Yashin, and now Spezza.

I think he would be fine if they could find a solid second line to balance the attack and take the pressure off. That's easier said than done, but maybe if they bumped Alfy to the second line with a better center it might work out.

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Old
02-20-2009, 07:15 PM
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Well, if the sens don't want him every other team in the league would welcome him with open arms. Personally I love this guy

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Old
02-20-2009, 07:34 PM
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Originally Posted by PenguinGuru View Post
Ottawa is becoming a black hole that sucks all of the enormous talent out of their star centers. Yashin, and now Spezza.

I think he would be fine if they could find a solid second line to balance the attack and take the pressure off. That's easier said than done, but maybe if they bumped Alfy to the second line with a better center it might work out.
You're right, its Ottawa's fault on Yashin. Im surprised we never wrote an official letter of apology to him for sucking all of his "talent" away.

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02-20-2009, 07:37 PM
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Guy is having an off year and all the sudden the "off with his head!" is being screamed.

Patrick Marleau is a great example as to someone I know their team is thankful as hell for not getting rid of after an "off year"

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Old
02-20-2009, 07:39 PM
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Originally Posted by PeterSidorkiewicz View Post
You're right, its Ottawa's fault on Yashin. Im surprised we never wrote an official letter of apology to him for sucking all of his "talent" away.
Maybe it's time you write that letter...

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02-20-2009, 07:49 PM
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Originally Posted by djavan View Post
but if that's the case then wouldn't you expect malkin and cosby like numbers from them this season...
The difference is Crosby and Malkin can be, and mostly are split up on two separate lines. Ottawa has one line that produces that the opposing team can focus on. The sens have tried splitting them up but it simply hasn't worked.

And yeah, Malkin and Crosby are better players too.

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02-20-2009, 07:52 PM
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The difference is Crosby and Malkin can be, and mostly are split up on two separate lines. Ottawa has one line that produces that the opposing team can focus on. The sens have tried splitting them up but it simply hasn't worked.

And yeah, Malkin and Crosby are better players too.
When Sid and Geno are together they are dominating, but there is ZERO scoring depth. When they are separated there is better depth but each of them gets double and triple teamed on their respective lines.

There is good and bad with both moves.

Ultimately what you want is what Detroit has, two dominating lines. Ottawa is pretty darn close to having just that, they just need a good second line center.

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Old
02-20-2009, 08:04 PM
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Maybe it's time you write that letter...
Im dipping my quill pen in a jar of Mark Gandlers blood right now.

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Old
02-20-2009, 08:28 PM
  #23
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Originally Posted by djavan View Post
can the sens really win with him?

i mean really he's making a ton and in spite of what someone debated with me a while ago that he' s been their most consistent player all season - mind you during the team's best streak all year he had 6pts in 5 games - the new coach has already benched him in the 3rd period of a game!
Absolutely. He was one of the main reasons the team went to the Stanley Cup Finals just two years ago. And he has been a relatively consistent performer for the Senators this year.

If it was based just on offensive talent this guy is easily top 10 in the NHL. His sight on the ice and ability to dish the puck is up there with the best like Thornton and Crosby. He has all the potential there. Sure, he hasn't had a good season but a lot of Senators haven't. He's not the reason that they haven't had a good season. Heatley has had a sub-par season based on his career. Just like Spezza has. But both are having solid seasons. Alfredsson is always excellent.

But lets face it the Senators were expecting A LOT MORE out of Fisher and Vermette in particular. Fisher was signed to a major long term $4+ million contract. He has 8 goals and 12 assists. I don't care about his intangibles like hard, physical play, etc; that just isn't the production they were expecting from this guy. When he wasn't healthy and missed 20+ games the guy was still good for 25g 25a. They just signed Vermette to a $2.8 million contract. He just came off a career best season. He has 9 goals and 17 assists. Sure he's a great face off man and a well rounded center but you need more production out of him. The Senators were expecting this kid to develop into a 60 point player this season. And also, don't forget, after the last few seasons they've lost Redden, Corvo, and Mezaros. Corvo is a great PP defense man. Redden was a solid defense man at making outlet passes (although it hasn't shown with the Rangers) and Mezaros did alright over there.

The bottom line is this season the Senators haven't had the secondary scoring. Sure, the Pizza line has had an off year, but with them having an off year they're 22 - 25. What does that tell me? If the team had better secondary scoring the record would be well above .500. Look at the Penguins, not enough secondary scoring. After Crosby, Malkin, and Sykora the team just can't get the job done and thats one reason they're not in a playoff spot this season. People really need to look else where and not put blame on Spezza because he has shown year and year again in the Playoffs he can win with this team. Even on an "off" season he is on pace for 30g 37a 67pts. That is a "bad" season for the guy. There is a reason why Alfredsson had his first 100pt season playing with him and why Heatley had back to back 50 goal seasons with him. He's an incredible playmaker.

There are a few bright spots for the Sens right now. Foligno looks solid. Elliot has impressed me. Kuba was a pleasant surprise. And all of the big players are due to have a better season next year. They'll be back in a playoff spot next year.

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Old
02-20-2009, 08:47 PM
  #24
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Pippen won 6 championships and is one of the best players to ever play the game.

Weird comparison.
He won those rings riding shotgun with Jordan. On his own it didnt go so well. did you forget that?

It was not meant as a slam. He is a fine player, but he is probably still not the main horse. With him a team is still going to need a leader that can make the big play at crunch time. A complimentary force.

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02-20-2009, 08:47 PM
  #25
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can the sens really win with him?
Yes.

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