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Why is Sather given a free pass? (All Sather related content here)

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Old
02-20-2009, 10:50 PM
  #51
gravytrain6t
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I was jK Jake. But really what I meant to say, was what I over hear people discussing,(usually a lot more hockey than Basketball) and sometimes I get involved and sometimes I don't. As far as Glenn Sather and this thread. Maybe problem is solved and we get the guy an Ed Coleman or Susan Waldman. Good enough. But if it's going to be some one who whines and harps on the same monotonous topic(s) before the guy can even have a cup of coffey in the morning, It's not a good idea. And the person has no business being there in the first place.

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02-20-2009, 10:57 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by gravytrain6t View Post
What would it be? The same redundant questions over and over? Why did you sign players x,y,z?
It's called accountability. Maybe if Sather was forced to hear the same redundant questions, he wouldn't make the same redundant mistakes, like wildly overpaying for overrated players and destroying any chance this team has of getting better over the next 4-5-6 years because of inefficient budget management.

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And as far as the draft. It's up to Slats to make stupid mistakes and trade away his prospects. He hasn't. The Rangers prospect pool has fallen for two reasons. Cherepanov's passing away and kids like Staal, Dubinsky, Callahan and Dawes making the Rangers team.
He hasn't made mistakes at the draft? The two highest draft picks this team has had during his tenure, the two most evident opportunities for the fortunes of the franchise to be turned around have been fantastically wasted by Sather. Montoya and Jessiman. Redundant mistakes in consecutive years, in fact, that delayed this team's rise by quite a number of years. The entire path of the franchise could have been different, and likely far better, if even one of those two blunders hadn't been made.

And the fact that the promotion of three role players to the big club is enough to drastically diminish the status of the prospect pool is simply evidence that the pool wasn't all that impressive in the first place, especially when you consider that Cherepanov was drafted only through an immense stroke of luck due to circumstances that had nothing to do with Sather. The fact that the Rangers have an endless supply of money is the only reason they drafted Cherepanov, and had Sather been the manager of a different club, picking in the same position with the same players available, it's not very likely that he would have picked Cherepanov.

If the Russian transfer issue hadn't been the hot topic of the moment, Cherepanov would never have fallen that low. Sather, like he was with Bure and Jagr, just happens to be the lucky son of a ***** with as much money at his disposal as he wants.

Heck, it's a major reason that he was able to draft Grachev, too. No way Grachev falls that low if it isn't for the transfer issue. But that is never an issue for the Rangers, because they never have to worry about money.

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Now usually, when a team finds a player of Lundqvist's caliber, of course the credit doesn't fully go to Sather. It goes to the scout who spotted him in Europe. That goes for any player being scouted. But the final decision is up to Sather on whether to draft him, trade him away or keep him.
Again....Neil Smith's scout...one month after Sather got the job.

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That's a reason why a commend Sather on what he has done post lockout. He hasn't traded away any key prospects. They are having lots of time to develop in the Jr.s, East Coast leagues, Hartford or some of them continue to choose to develop in their home country.
Generally speaking, only two types of teams DO trade away their prospects: contenders that are serious about winning Stanley Cups, or teams who are under tremendous pressure to make the playoffs or go far in them, which usually amounts to a team whose GM is on the hotseat. Perfect example: the Sens/Isles trade. Bryan Murray's job is at stake.

Now, since there is absolutely no accountability with the Rangers, Sather never has to worry about losing his job, because if he didn't lose his job after the first four years, when he showed himself to be one of the worst general managers in the league, he obviously doesn't have much to worry about.

And considering that the Rangers have never been serious Cup contenders under Sather, there isn't much of a reason for him to trade away prospects.

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Besides, media relations is nice to have. But IDK how important a quality trait that is when weighing up against the other aspects of being a GM.
People wouldn't be so anxious to hear from him if he was doing a good job, but he isn't, so obviously, people are going to get angry. He's done an atrocious job with free agent signings and in 8 years, the only impact prospect that he has produced so far is Marc Staal. As I've said before, other than Milbury, no other GM has continued to be employed by a team despite such a terrible performance record.

Sport fans demand answers and accountability when the people in charge don't do their job. Sather doesn't provide that. Then again, other than continuing to delay this team from doing what it inevitably must, completely rebuilding, he doesn't provide much of anything.

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02-20-2009, 11:02 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by gravytrain6t View Post
And the person has no business being there in the first place.
Kind of like Sather has no business still having a job with this team.

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02-20-2009, 11:16 PM
  #54
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So if Henrik Lundqvist would have been a bust. Whose fault would that be? The General Manager for drafting Lundqvist, or the scout who highly recommended him upon watching him play in Sweden?

Or any example. Marc Staal. If he would have been a poor choice where he was selected and turned out to be a crappy defense man, I just want to be clear. Whose fault is that? The General Manager's scout for advising Sather to pick Staal or is it the fault of Glenn Sather himself?

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02-20-2009, 11:30 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by TheSchwab View Post
Ha Ha yeah okay, take it easy bud.

This thread is hilarious yet so mis-guided. All of you talking about Bettman, ESPN, and Versus do not understand the dynamics behind each situation. TV Ratings for the NHL are up across the board on Versus, NBC, and in most local markets.

Bettman, meanwhile, has done more to grow the game than any commish before. Do I like him? No, not so much, but I sure do not hate him. And for people who say he doesn't like to admit when he's wrong, think of it this way.

If you're a salesman for any product, do you really want to admit that there might be a problem with it? The man is smart in how he spins his words, no matter how obviously wrong it is to some HOCKEY fans.

As for Sather, he will never get fired because Dolan doesn't know **** about hockey. It's a shame, because Tom Renney has over-achieved with this club, and its Sather's fault for not giving the team any cap room to make a deal at the deadline this year.

Also, Mark Streit >>>>> Wade Redden.
dont remind me.

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02-20-2009, 11:36 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by gravytrain6t View Post
So if Henrik Lundqvist would have been a bust. Whose fault would that be? The General Manager for drafting Lundqvist, or the scout who highly recommended him upon watching him play in Sweden?

Or any example. Marc Staal. If he would have been a poor choice where he was selected and turned out to be a crappy defense man, I just want to be clear. Whose fault is that? The General Manager's scout for advising Sather to pick Staal or is it the fault of Glenn Sather himself?
IDK, maybe some one else can answer this question?

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02-20-2009, 11:43 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by gravytrain6t View Post
Because ESPN is full of ****. It's like they have some sort of "axe to grind" with the NHL.
I don't understand. If there aren't enough viewing audiences.
How come the NHL went from 6 teams to now 30 teams. All teams of which, are staying a float.
The other thing that makes hockey so great. Is that no other sport, (except possibly baseball and of course soccer) can compete on an international level.
I love watching the pro's represent their country. The passion is almost just as great as the NHL playoffs. The old Czechoslovakia has split up up but when they were a United Country, man were they entertaining.

I mean could you imagine a top line of Hemsky, Gaborik and Hossa vs a Russian top line of Ovechkin, Malkin and Kovalchuk? Except, they're not playing like they would in an all star game. Their playing as hard as they can to win.

If I had one wish, it would be to have the opportunity to watch the old 1972 and 1974 Summit series competitions. Russia won one and Canada won one.
If people find Poker on ESPN more entertaining than that, there is a huge problem with the American Sporting fan base. But I don't think that's true. I think ESPN as a net work hates hockey. Why, I don't know and I really don't care. It's there loss.
First of all, I completely agree with your sentiment. I hate the fact that hockey is passed up consistently for COLLEGE BASKETBALL! Why do I care about watching a bunch of college kids, 95 percent of which will never make it to the professional level?

The thing with ESPN though is that they have no financial incentive to display hockey on their network. Don LaGreca and Michael Kay talked about this for a while on their show the other day and LaGreca explained it pretty well.

ESPN pays a lot of money to earn the rights to show NBA, MLB and NFL games, along with the other "sports" like NASCAR and the other trash they show. They have no investment in the NHL. If they were to talk about hockey nonstop they wouldn't profit from it all because they currently have no NHL games on their networks. So basically, if you're an executive at ESPN and you've invested a ton of money in the NBA for instance and you know that there is a larger segment of the American population that wants to hear about the NBA (I'm sorry, but it's true, hockey fans are in the minority here) than why would you sacrifice dollars to show a sport which your company does no business with?

Gary Bettman made the decision to partner up with VS instead of ESPN and now we're all stuck with the World Series of Poker every night. So once again, ESPN has NO business interests with the NHL. They could very easily decide tonight to just completely ignore the NHL's existence and it wouldn't harm their financial interests at all.

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02-20-2009, 11:49 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by NickyZ View Post
First of all, I completely agree with your sentiment. I hate the fact that hockey is passed up consistently for COLLEGE BASKETBALL! Why do I care about watching a bunch of college kids, 95 percent of which will never make it to the professional level?

The thing with ESPN though is that they have no financial incentive to display hockey on their network. Don LaGreca and Michael Kay talked about this for a while on their show the other day and LaGreca explained it pretty well.

ESPN pays a lot of money to earn the rights to show NBA, MLB and NFL games, along with the other "sports" like NASCAR and the other trash they show. They have no investment in the NHL. If they were to talk about hockey nonstop they wouldn't profit from it all because they currently have no NHL games on their networks. So basically, if you're an executive at ESPN and you've invested a ton of money in the NBA for instance and you know that there is a larger segment of the American population that wants to hear about the NBA (I'm sorry, but it's true, hockey fans are in the minority here) than why would you sacrifice dollars to show a sport which your company does no business with?

Gary Bettman made the decision to partner up with VS instead of ESPN and now we're all stuck with the World Series of Poker every night.
Horrible. Poker, Pool, or watching other guys Fish. Or maybe that's more versus. So glad we also get ESPN 2 to go a long with it.

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02-20-2009, 11:55 PM
  #59
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If you gave Redden more than Pronger, or Drury more than Datsyuk, would you want to talk to the media?

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02-21-2009, 02:45 AM
  #60
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Originally Posted by gravytrain6t View Post
So if Henrik Lundqvist would have been a bust. Whose fault would that be? The General Manager for drafting Lundqvist, or the scout who highly recommended him upon watching him play in Sweden?

Or any example. Marc Staal. If he would have been a poor choice where he was selected and turned out to be a crappy defense man, I just want to be clear. Whose fault is that? The General Manager's scout for advising Sather to pick Staal or is it the fault of Glenn Sather himself?
Henrik Lundqvist was a 7th round pick. There are no 7th round busts because 7th round picks, generally, don't amount to anything. The most likely scenario is that the scout, whose name escapes me, was quite high on Lundqvist and was allowed to choose him in the 7th round because, really, at that point, it's a total crap shoot. There is no risk when selecting 7th rounders. If you get a star in the later rounds, that's basically a bonus, but even if you do, that doesn't mean it's cool if you blow your first round picks. Those are the opportunities to take players that are, more often than not, sure things.

And comparing Lundqvist and Staal is very different, simply because Staal was a top prospect for several years, especially after the success of Eric, and he played in the OHL, which people like Sather probably follow more closely than Swedish hockey, which is a job handled by Euro scouts. There is a reason why the Red Wings are as succesful as they are: they realized before everyone else that Sweden is a gold mine. They devoted major scouting to Sweden.

Getting Marc Staal was a fine move, one that Sather deserves credit for. Unfortunately, that doesn't make up for the fact that Montoya and Jessiman were both horrendous moves, especially Jessiman, when almost everyone was dumbfounded by what a stupid pick that was. That was the first round when virtually every team picked up a good player except for Sather, and this was at a period in time when the Rangers were DESPERATE for top prospects, and yet he screwed it up TWO YEARS IN A ROW.

The Montoya, Jessiman and Staal picks were the highest draft picks this team has had under Sather, and while one of them turned out to be very good, the other two produced a 4th liner and future considerations. No other GM in this league would be allowed to continue to hold his job after such an immense failure.

And since 1982, if you follow the Oilers draft history up until his departure in 2000 when he came here, he was a terrible drafter. In 17-18 years he produced an astoundingly tiny amount of significant draft picks. He drafted give or take 20 players that played more than 2-3 seasons in this league in 18 years, and the immense majority of them are role players. The most notable players that he drafted in those 17 years: Jason Arnott, Ryan Smyth, Mike Comrie, Tom Poti, Martin Rucinsky, Jeff Beukeboom, Esa Tikkanen. That's the best of the best of 17 years of drafting. I love Beukeboom and Esa and all, but this is not an impressive list for such a long period of time.


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02-21-2009, 02:54 AM
  #61
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No other GM in this league would be allowed to continue to hold his job after such an immense failure.
That's what I thought when he gave Holik 9 million per for five years. And yet here he still is. I'm starting to believe that Sather may actually be a form of herpes and he'll never disappear.

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02-21-2009, 07:13 AM
  #62
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Originally Posted by Dagoon44 View Post
Glen Sather absolutely hates the NY media and refuses to speak to any NY beat writers. Glen only speaks to the media in Edmonton and if a ex Oiler isn't getting his number retired we hear nothing about the Rangers. Can you imagine if Cashman refused to speak about the Yankees or Omar about the MEts? The media would kill them. The Rangers are a below average team with at least 4 major moves in the last 2 years that have set this team back in a big way. Sather is never at the Garden he is invisible and down right held unaccountable for his horrible job he has done. We all know he is Dolan's personal favorite but why is no one asking this guy the hard question and when he refuses calling him out?
He was actually walking around the garden before the ranger islander game the other night...I asked him when are we getting avery but he just kept walking

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02-21-2009, 07:31 AM
  #63
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He was actually walking around the garden before the ranger islander game the other night...I asked him when are we getting avery but he just kept walking
You should have said you were from Edmonton.

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02-21-2009, 09:59 AM
  #64
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ever see the video of him flipping out on the kid asking for a autograph ?

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02-21-2009, 12:57 PM
  #65
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Two points:

1) There is just one reason why the NHL is not on ESPN. And that is that Gary Bettman turned down ESPN's lowball offer. Don't blame ESPN. NBC also turned down the NHL until Bettman caved into making it a no-risk venture for NBC. Furthermore, the OLN/VS contract is because Ed Snider (Chairman of the Flyers) is also an exec of Comcast which owns OLN/VS. OLN was desperate to appeal to a wider audience than deer hunters and catfish wrastlers. They saw the NHL as an opportunity to become "legit". So they offered more than ESPN, plain and simple. ESPN saw the NHL as a losing proposition. ESPN is a business. They are here to make money, not here to please you. They watched viewership plummet during Fox Sports' tenure (think glowing puck, battling robots) and that translates into lower share and lower prices they can charge sponsors.

2) Fans do have the power to force Glen to talk or even force Glen out of the organ-eye-zation. But fans will never exercise that power because fans never organize. All you have to do to force James Dolan to do what you want is stop paying to see the Rangers. But this will never happen. If one seat subscriber declines to renew on principle, someone else will jump in and take that seat.

So fans have a choice: Organize and take a stand with your wallets. Or stop complaining.

Dolan doesn't listen to your voices. He only listens to your money. And fans say something else with their money than they say with their mouths.

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02-21-2009, 01:41 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by Rodent View Post
Two points:

1) There is just one reason why the NHL is not on ESPN. And that is that Gary Bettman turned down ESPN's lowball offer. Don't blame ESPN. NBC also turned down the NHL until Bettman caved into making it a no-risk venture for NBC. Furthermore, the OLN/VS contract is because Ed Snider (Chairman of the Flyers) is also an exec of Comcast which owns OLN/VS. OLN was desperate to appeal to a wider audience than deer hunters and catfish wrastlers. They saw the NHL as an opportunity to become "legit". So they offered more than ESPN, plain and simple. ESPN saw the NHL as a losing proposition. ESPN is a business. They are here to make money, not here to please you. They watched viewership plummet during Fox Sports' tenure (think glowing puck, battling robots) and that translates into lower share and lower prices they can charge sponsors.
Excellent point as usual, Rodent. I'm ashamed to say that I forgot all about the VS/Comcast/Snider connection, but you're absolutely right. And yes, ratings did plummet at the time.

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2) Fans do have the power to force Glen to talk or even force Glen out of the organ-eye-zation. But fans will never exercise that power because fans never organize. All you have to do to force James Dolan to do what you want is stop paying to see the Rangers. But this will never happen. If one seat subscriber declines to renew on principle, someone else will jump in and take that seat.

So fans have a choice: Organize and take a stand with your wallets. Or stop complaining.

Dolan doesn't listen to your voices. He only listens to your money. And fans say something else with their money than they say with their mouths.
Yeah, don't count on that happening. I guess I'm part of the problem. I still pay for Cablevision, mainly so I can watch Ranger games. I have limited my self to just a couple of ventures to MSG this season, however, down from my usual 5-6-7 a season.

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02-22-2009, 01:11 AM
  #67
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ever see the video of him flipping out on the kid asking for a autograph ?
Don't get me wrong(ly). I personally believe Glen is arrogant, contemptuous of us "little people rodents" and rude.

But you gotta admit, that kid was baiting Slats. The kid had it coming. It's just that we expect someone in Glen's executive position to remain composed no matter what the provocation. Under similar circumstances, Gary Bettman would probably be significantly less demonstrative. His reaction would probably be to continue to ignore the punk.

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02-23-2009, 10:52 AM
  #68
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I would be interested to find out what the profit margin for the NYR and other teams in the league has been for this year and the past couple of years. Dolan may oddly be making big bucks even though the team doesn't have much to show for it. If Sather can help Dolan this way and he still turns a profit this may be the answer to the question. I don't know how to go about finding this information though. Does Cablevision file separate financial reports for each team or is it in one lump with everything else he has in his empire.

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02-23-2009, 11:08 AM
  #69
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He builds this team. It is his fault. Of course, Dolan treats him better than his father.

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02-23-2009, 11:25 AM
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Being an avid hater of the Rangers my whole life.. I have always thought.. Its is Glenn Sather's fault for your dilemmas. As we had Bob Clarke for that stretch making bad decisions. The problem may have been Renney, but it stems higher.

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02-23-2009, 11:32 AM
  #71
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Guys and Gals,

Not trolling here. Honestly sorry to see it come to this. I agree fully w/many of you that Sather has been given a free pass. Consider him the new teflon-don of the NHL.

As much as I pain to see it, Mike Milbury made a very accurate statement during yesterday's NBC telecast. He said GM's owe their coach at least one player transaction prior to him being fired. After that, the onus is on the coach.

Sather, likely because he's strapped this team salary cap wise, didn't deliver that. He owed Renney that much.

Unfortunately, you guys and gals need to suffer due to Sather's poor management. Clearly, that's the guy who needs to go in my opinion.

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02-23-2009, 11:49 AM
  #72
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When the same wallet is used to pay the beat writer, the TV channels and the GM, there's not likely a lot of fingerpointing to be done.

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02-23-2009, 12:25 PM
  #73
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I wish Sather was next. And by next i mean like today.

Then we really could be excited about something.

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02-23-2009, 12:26 PM
  #74
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I wish Sather was next. And by next i mean like today.

Then we really could be excited about something.
I agree.

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02-23-2009, 12:33 PM
  #75
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I wish Sather was next. And by next i mean like today.

Then we really could be excited about something.
That would mean that Ownership has common sense...Not something we should expect any time soon I would imagine.

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