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Old
02-22-2009, 12:56 AM
  #51
Captain Conservative
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 8BostonRocker24 View Post
Joe Colborne, Matt Lashoff, Vladimir Sobotka are better prospect then anything listed in the 1st post. Boston's 1st and Washington's 1st are equal. Either one can make it to the Stanley Cup finals. The proposal I listed also doesn't hand cuff The Ducks with a bad contract for the next 2 years.
Matt Lashoff a better prospect than Oskar Osala? Are there two Matt Lashoffs or something?

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Old
02-22-2009, 12:57 AM
  #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amjay13 View Post
Fehr
Morrisson
1st 09

for

Pronger
You gotta give to get.

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Old
02-22-2009, 12:58 AM
  #53
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Originally Posted by DucksRule00 View Post
You gotta give to get.
Add in Osala. A first round pick, two good forward prospects and a #4 d-man should be enough to get a rental.

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02-22-2009, 01:45 AM
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amjay13 View Post
Fehr
Morrisson
1st 09

for

Pronger
Not going to happen.

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Old
02-22-2009, 02:05 AM
  #55
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Originally Posted by Paul4587 View Post
Not going to happen.
I agree, but the ducks have to decide if they want to take a top prospect, an NHL d-man, and a 1st or two for Pronger...or if they want to hang on to him, finish in 9th this year and trade him next year for a package that might not include that kind of quality at the deadline depending on how well he plays next year. It's their call, but I think his value is as high as it's going to get right now and they'd be wise to take the top prospect, roster player and 1st rounder(s) if they're going to move him.

They could always try to come back and make one more run, but I don't see it. I really think that people are overestimating the package Pronger will get, especially a package they might get from the caps. GMGM will not part with an assortment of key assets for Pronger, he just won't. He'll say take it or leave it, let someone else overpay. If he parts with Carlson that'll be it, Carlson and a pick, I don't think it'll cost that much though. I don't think the ducks move Pronger, but if they move him and the Caps are involved, GMGM will name his price, I promise you that.

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Old
02-22-2009, 02:18 AM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ColincampbellOscopy View Post
I agree, but the ducks have to decide if they want to take a top prospect, an NHL d-man, and a 1st or two for Pronger...or if they want to hang on to him, finish in 9th this year and trade him next year for a package that might not include that kind of quality at the deadline depending on how well he plays next year. It's their call, but I think his value is as high as it's going to get right now and they'd be wise to take the top prospect, roster player and 1st rounder(s) if they're going to move him.

They could always try to come back and make one more run, but I don't see it. I really think that people are overestimating the package Pronger will get, especially a package they might get from the caps. GMGM will not part with an assortment of key assets for Pronger, he just won't. He'll say take it or leave it, let someone else overpay. If he parts with Carlson that'll be it, Carlson and a pick, I don't think it'll cost that much though. I don't think the ducks move Pronger, but if they move him and the Caps are involved, GMGM will name his price, I promise you that.
Pronger would be worth a lot to the Caps - probably as much as Fehr, Carlson, Morrissonn and a 1st. Right now the Capitals have cup winning potential but they remind me a lot of a better version of the 90s St. Louis too - good enough to get very close but not over. Having Pronger this year and next year increases their chances of winning the cup in that time tremendously, and winning their first cup would have a much greater impact on the team and the way hockey is viewed here in general than Fehr, Carlson and a late 1st, even if Fehr and Carlson pan out to be studs.

Personally, I'd prefer Volchenkov (long term) or Salei (inexpensive yet effective rental) to Pronger, and would be willing to give up a good amount for Volchenkov, as he'd be a shutdown cornerstone for a decade. But Pronger would be worth a lot to the Caps.

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Old
02-22-2009, 08:41 AM
  #57
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Burke says a 1st and a kid would get it done. I would think that has to be close. Personally, I don't understand why so many Caps posters here don't recognize that the kid has to be a top prospect. A player likely to be a quality top half of the lineup player.
The Caps have Carlson, Osala, Finley, Varlamov and Nuevirth that fall into that catagory, if you set Alzner and Fehr aside.

For critics, Fehr appears to be the real deal. A 30-50 goal scoring power forward. He is finally breaking out.

The Capitals are not going to have roster space for all of those prospects. They need to choose which they think will be better for them and trade the excess. The Caps dont need both Alzner and Carlson. If you think Carlson is going to be better than a top 5 pick, then trade Alzner.

In anycase neithe Alzner nor Carlson are going to be a Chris Pronger.

One more thing. 1 cup is an improvement over 0 cups. 1974 to present=0 cups.

As for Volchenkov...Loser...Loser...Loser. Thats too fine a point, but there is a big difference between Pronger and his cup ring and Volchenkov who played his career so far with a team that chokes and gags every season. You talk about a choker team like St Louis. Volchenkov is branded with that choker label himself. Pronger is a winner.

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Old
02-22-2009, 08:49 AM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by txpd View Post
Burke says a 1st and a kid would get it done. I would think that has to be close. Personally, I don't understand why so many Caps posters here don't recognize that the kid has to be a top prospect. A player likely to be a quality top half of the lineup player.
The Caps have Carlson, Osala, Finley, Varlamov and Nuevirth that fall into that catagory, if you set Alzner and Fehr aside.

For critics, Fehr appears to be the real deal. A 30-50 goal scoring power forward. He is finally breaking out.

The Capitals are not going to have roster space for all of those prospects. They need to choose which they think will be better for them and trade the excess. The Caps dont need both Alzner and Carlson. If you think Carlson is going to be better than a top 5 pick, then trade Alzner.

In any case neithe Alzner nor Carlson are going to be a Chris Pronger.

One more thing. 1 cup is an improvement over 0 cups. 1974 to present=0 cups.

As for Volchenkov...Loser...Loser...Loser. Thats too fine a point, but there is a big difference between Pronger and his cup ring and Volchenkov who played his career so far with a team that chokes and gags every season. You talk about a choker team like St Louis. Volchenkov is branded with that choker label himself. Pronger is a winner.
I'm a caps fan, but your assessment of Fehr is way too optimistic. 30-50 goal scorer? I will be ecstatic if he can put up 25 goals consistently.

I agree with your main point though. The Caps have to give to get. And that probably means Carlson. Whether or not it's worth it is another question.

As for your assessment of Volchenkov, I also disagree. You are far too harsh on him. I don't believe he is the ironman top 10 shutdown defenseman proclaimed by many on this board, but he is not nearly as bad you imagine. To pin Ottawa's struggles on him is ridiculous.

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Old
02-22-2009, 09:26 AM
  #59
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Man Progner and if the rumors of a Backstrom (wild) trade to the Caps would definitely mean they are taking the East

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Old
02-22-2009, 09:49 AM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amjay13 View Post
Add in Osala. A first round pick, two good forward prospects and a #4 d-man should be enough to get a rental.
Pronger wouldn't be a rental. He's under contract for next year as well.

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02-22-2009, 09:56 AM
  #61
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Originally Posted by Foy View Post
Pronger wouldn't be a rental. He's under contract for next year as well.
I did not know that, thanks. That certainly improves what I'd be willing to give up for him.

Regarding Fehr, I don't think a good 10 game strech classifies as breaking out. I would be shocked if he ever scored 40 goals in a NHL season.

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Old
02-22-2009, 10:41 AM
  #62
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Originally Posted by HayleysHandMotions View Post
I'm a caps fan, but your assessment of Fehr is way too optimistic. 30-50 goal scorer? I will be ecstatic if he can put up 25 goals consistently.

As for your assessment of Volchenkov, I also disagree. You are far too harsh on him. I don't believe he is the ironman top 10 shutdown defenseman proclaimed by many on this board, but he is not nearly as bad you imagine. To pin Ottawa's struggles on him is ridiculous.
Fehr: I think 30 is possible. Even more likely if he is on another team where he is not having to sit behind Ovechkin & Semin for Power Play time. We will see.

Volchenkov: I am not blaming the Senators playoff history on him. I am saying that he played a part and that is his frame of reference for the playoffs. Since his frame of reference mirrors the Capitals team playoff history, I would prefer not to mix those elements. Further I want to inject as much of what Fedorov brings as possible. Volchenkov isn't the right guy.

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02-22-2009, 10:44 AM
  #63
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What about Pronger for Laich, Osala, and a 1st?

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Old
02-22-2009, 10:55 AM
  #64
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I think the Laich part of the proposal would kill the deal for Washington on several levels.

The main being that Laich has been a heart and soul portion of this group going back to the Hershey championship. He is primary chemistry. McPhee has shown no interest in parting with players that a main part of the group.

Most people thought that the Zednik/Bulis for Linden/Zubrus deal was would really set the Caps up for the playoffs, but the result was that it killed the team chemistry and they never performed after that trade.

I think McPhee would rather get a bottom half of the lineup cup experienced player and go with what he's got, than give up a prime piece of the team. I also believe that Anaheim would not be wanting a fully developed roster player like Laich. You can grow your own Brooks Laich and get more play at a lower pay rate than what Laich is making.

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Old
02-22-2009, 10:59 AM
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EroCaps View Post

Carlson, Alzner and Gustafsson are off the table.

1st round pick.
Francois Bouchard
Shaone Morrisonn
3rd round pick

Pronger
4th round pick
Then Pronger is unlikely to be dealt to Washington. That may be fine with you and that's ok, but if you want Pronger you're going to have to give up more than a stay-at-home 5th defenseman, a decent prospect and a late 1st. It would be real easy for the Canucks for example to match that offer by sending Shane O'Brien, Michael Grabner, 1st round pick and 2nd round pick. I don't think any Canucks' fan would think twice about pulling the trigger on that.

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Old
02-22-2009, 11:52 AM
  #66
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I think if Pronger ends up moved before the deadline, the package of picks and prospects will blow away those thrown around on HF. Just because the Ducks don't have to deal him it'll take a lot to get him. If a GM isn't willing to offer what the asking price is, then Pronger won't be moved.

Murray should settle for no less than the moon if he deals away our only defenseman signed next year.

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Old
02-22-2009, 12:23 PM
  #67
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The Caps don't have the players to give up to get Pronger.
First off the Ducks do not want an overpaid and under performing player like Nylander for the main player in a trade for a top 5 D-men in the NHL. The Ducks would never do this trade. Nylander for 4.9 million for the next 2 seasons? NO THANKS. The reason why the Ducks would trade Pronger is to SAVE MONEY.
If Mike Comrie can get a 1st rounder then Pronger should easily get a 1st rounder a top 6 forward and a high D-men prospect.

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Old
02-22-2009, 12:31 PM
  #68
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If Mike Comrie can get a 1st rounder then Pronger should easily get a 1st rounder a top 6 forward and a high D-men prospect.
Mike Comrie didn't get a 1st rounder. Comrie and Camploi did. It wouldn't surprise me if Comrie was dealt at the deadline for a 2nd or something similar and the dead turns out to be Campoli and and a 2nd for a late 1st. Not bad at all.

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Old
02-22-2009, 01:16 PM
  #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Letang58 View Post
What about Pronger for Laich, Osala, and a 1st?
Anaheim needs a defenseman back (roster, near-NHL ready, or prospect) to consider trading Pronger.

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Old
02-22-2009, 01:56 PM
  #70
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Originally Posted by Selanne08 View Post
Assuming Anaheim keeps losing and dropping from the playoff race. I understand its incredibly close so a major overpayment would be needed..

Washington:
Pronger (6.250)

Anaheim:
1st 09
Osala
Nylander (4.875) <--- just to make the salaries match
Jurcina (0.881)
Francois Bouchard
Lepisto

Anaheim is thin on RW prospects so Bouchard would jump to number 1 after Bobby Ryan is taken off the prospect list. Lepisto is a good puck moving d-man but if Anaheim has a lot of those he can be switched for something else. Jurcina was basically thrown in there as a little salary and to open another d-spot. Nylander of course for salary reasons. 1st in a very deep draft. And Osala is the main piece. Personally I think he would fit the Anaheim, gritty power forward mold perfectly. Big body not afraid to hit with scoring.

And also, with this deal, Washington doesn't really screw their future. These are all expandable prospects from their views.
Here are the major problems first:

- Ducks would want NO part of Nylander's contract of almost 5M a season, which runs for two more seasons after this one.

- While you're right about the Ducks' RW prospect depth, the fact is while Selanne will likely retire after next year, they still have Perry and Ryan as YOUNG first-line quality right-wingers (assuming Ryan doesn't stay a LW). Bouchard will not get a top-six RW role with Anaheim for the foreseeable future.

Without moving Nylander, I don't see much way for the Caps to squeeze Pronger in unless they move a Fedorov, Kozlov or Poti (who are all working parts of their team right now, so I think they'd hesitate to move any).

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Old
02-22-2009, 03:31 PM
  #71
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The Caps don't have the players to give up to get Pronger.
First off the Ducks do not want an overpaid and under performing player like Nylander for the main player in a trade for a top 5 D-men in the NHL. The Ducks would never do this trade. Nylander for 4.9 million for the next 2 seasons? NO THANKS. The reason why the Ducks would trade Pronger is to SAVE MONEY.
If Mike Comrie can get a 1st rounder then Pronger should easily get a 1st rounder a top 6 forward and a high D-men prospect.
guys let's get it through our heads here, Nylander would NOT be going back to Anaheim under any circumstances. He would have to be moved in a seperate deal with a team like Chicago or someone else who needs a 2nd line center. ZERO chance he would be going to Anaheim as a part of a Pronger package.

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02-22-2009, 03:32 PM
  #72
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guys let's get it through our heads here, Nylander would NOT be going back to Anaheim under any circumstances. He would have to be moved in a seperate deal with a team like Chicago or someone else who needs a 2nd line center. ZERO chance he would be going to Anaheim as a part of a Pronger package.
Then Pronger isn't coming to DC. Anaheim will have other suitors.

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Old
02-22-2009, 03:59 PM
  #73
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Then Pronger isn't coming to DC. Anaheim will have other suitors.
fine, but why would the inclusion of Nylander make a Pronger deal more likely? I have a very difficult time believing that the Ducks, who if they move Pronger would surely be in "cut salary/rebuild" mode, would take on an aging Centerman(for whom they have no need) who carries a 4.875 million dollar cap hit. It makes no sense. Either way this won't be a package that includes multiple roster players to make salary work, that's fantasy land stuff, especially old roster players who have top line cap hits, but cannot play top line minutes.

It will take solid roster player with a little upside, an upper echelon prospect, and a 1st round pick or two. That's what Pronger will go for if he goes. If other teams want to go over that package, go right ahead. I just don't think that any other contending team in the east can top what the Caps can offer in terms of quality within a package like that.

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Old
02-22-2009, 04:03 PM
  #74
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As dominat as Pronger is Wash would be better going for (cost cheaper)a goalie. Roloson from Edm provided they drop down as well--2nd or maybe a 1st,or overpay to get Backstrom from Minny (they have a very tough schedule in the next week)

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02-22-2009, 04:24 PM
  #75
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Originally Posted by ColincampbellOscopy View Post
fine, but why would the inclusion of Nylander make a Pronger deal more likely? I have a very difficult time believing that the Ducks, who if they move Pronger would surely be in "cut salary/rebuild" mode, would take on an aging Centerman(for whom they have no need) who carries a 4.875 million dollar cap hit. It makes no sense. Either way this won't be a package that includes multiple roster players to make salary work, that's fantasy land stuff, especially old roster players who have top line cap hits, but cannot play top line minutes.

It will take solid roster player with a little upside, an upper echelon prospect, and a 1st round pick or two. That's what Pronger will go for if he goes. If other teams want to go over that package, go right ahead. I just don't think that any other contending team in the east can top what the Caps can offer in terms of quality within a package like that.
Because Washington doesn't have the luxury of just adding a $6 million contract whenever it wants to. Unless there's some other deal that GMGM can put together to trade Nylander elsewhere, I agree that Nylander would need to be included in this trade to balance out the salaries.

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