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Great Game by Kovalev but...

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Old
02-21-2009, 09:08 PM
  #26
BaseballCoach
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
Akost should be playing with Koivu giving us 2 dangerous lines.
Plekanec-Kovalev-Tanguay
Koivu-Akost-Pacioretty
Lapierre-d'Agostini-Higgins
Begin-Kostopoulos-Latendresse

There's 2 dangerous lines plus a third line with speed and two semi-snipers on it, and a fourth line with a bit of offensive potential as well (as fourth lines go).

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Old
02-21-2009, 09:12 PM
  #27
Russian Warrior
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Wow. Never happy..
pathetic.

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02-21-2009, 09:21 PM
  #28
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There is no secret, Kovalev has to keep his level of energy high.. This is the only way this line will click and be dangerous.. Personally I doubt it will last long and thats why I wouldnt be surprised to see Gainey move him at the deadline..

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02-21-2009, 09:36 PM
  #29
Iwishihadacup
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Abdel Kostitsyn View Post
Wow. Never happy..
pathetic.
wow... jumping back on the bandwagon after one game...
pathetic

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Old
02-21-2009, 09:54 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iwishihadacup View Post
wow... jumping back on the bandwagon after one game...
pathetic
No one is jumping back on the bandwagon. They're acknowledging that he had a good game...seems to be eating you up for some reason.

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Old
02-21-2009, 10:15 PM
  #31
Erik Estrada
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Abdel Kostitsyn View Post
Wow. Never happy..
pathetic.
The performance by that line is a smokescreen. I know the fans and announcers are fawning over Kovalev but he has no business on that line. The fundamentals are just not there.

What happens when AKostitsyn and Plekanec are matched to Kovalev this season (instead of matching them with other players: AKost-Koivu-D'Agostini or AKost-Plex-Pacioretty)

1-They have less shots on goal

Andrei Kostitsyn
-4 vs Wash (with MaxPac)
-4 vs Pitts (with MaxPac)
-1 Today (ATAK)

Thomas Plekanec
-6 vs Wash (with MaxPac)
-4 vs Pitts (with MaxPac)
-2 Today (ATAK)

Total for line
-12 vs Wash (with MaxPac)
-11 vs Pitts (with MaxPac)
-4 Today (ATAK) (1 goal on 1 shot for Kovalev)


2-They have more giveaways
-2 vs Wash (with MaxPac)
-2 vs Pitts (with MaxPac)
-4 Today (ATAK)-3 by Kovalev
(Kovalev in lineup = alot more shots on our goal-alot less on the stick of Plekanec and Kostitsyn)


It's the story of the season. That lines' fundamentals have not been there all season long. We got lucky today. We'll get murdered in the playoffs (if we get there) if this is our top line.

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Old
02-21-2009, 10:19 PM
  #32
Iwishihadacup
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erik Estrada View Post
The performance by that line is a smokescreen. I know the fans and announcers are fawning over Kovalev but he has no business on that line. The fundamentals are just not there.

What happens when AKostitsyn and Plekanec are matched to Kovalev this season (instead of matching them with other players: AKost-Koivu-D'Agostini or AKost-Plex-Pacioretty)

1-They have less shots on goal

Andrei Kostitsyn
-4 vs Wash (with MaxPac)
-4 vs Pitts (with MaxPac)
-1 Today (ATAK)

Thomas Plekanec
-6 vs Wash (with MaxPac)
-4 vs Pitts (with MaxPac)
-2 Today (ATAK)

Total for line
-12 vs Wash (with MaxPac)
-11 vs Pitts (with MaxPac)
-4 Today (ATAK) (1 goal on 1 shot for Kovalev)


2-They have more giveaways
-2 vs Wash (with MaxPac)
-2 vs Pitts (with MaxPac)
-4 Today (ATAK)-3 by Kovalev
(Kovalev in lineup = alot more shots on our goal-alot less on the stick of Plekanec and Kostitsyn)


It's the story of the season. That lines' fundamentals have not been there all season long. We got lucky today. We'll get murdered in the playoffs (if we get there) if this is our top line.

Man I could never have said this better

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Old
02-21-2009, 10:55 PM
  #33
paddy
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The problem is Pleks plays differently with Kovy. He looks for and passes to Kovy a lot more than Andrei. It's not entirely Kovy's fault, but when this line is together this year, Andrei just doesn't get the puck enough from BOTH of his linemates. We'll wait a few games and see, but I don't think it'll work out 5-on-5 this year.

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Old
02-21-2009, 10:57 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erik Estrada View Post
The performance by that line is a smokescreen. I know the fans and announcers are fawning over Kovalev but he has no business on that line. The fundamentals are just not there.

What happens when AKostitsyn and Plekanec are matched to Kovalev this season (instead of matching them with other players: AKost-Koivu-D'Agostini or AKost-Plex-Pacioretty)

1-They have less shots on goal

Andrei Kostitsyn
-4 vs Wash (with MaxPac)
-4 vs Pitts (with MaxPac)
-1 Today (ATAK)

Thomas Plekanec
-6 vs Wash (with MaxPac)
-4 vs Pitts (with MaxPac)
-2 Today (ATAK)

Total for line
-12 vs Wash (with MaxPac)
-11 vs Pitts (with MaxPac)
-4 Today (ATAK) (1 goal on 1 shot for Kovalev)


2-They have more giveaways
-2 vs Wash (with MaxPac)
-2 vs Pitts (with MaxPac)
-4 Today (ATAK)-3 by Kovalev
(Kovalev in lineup = alot more shots on our goal-alot less on the stick of Plekanec and Kostitsyn)


It's the story of the season. That lines' fundamentals have not been there all season long. We got lucky today. We'll get murdered in the playoffs (if we get there) if this is our top line.
+1000

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Old
02-22-2009, 07:04 AM
  #35
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He seems very slow compared to last season...

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Old
02-22-2009, 07:40 AM
  #36
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Kovalev can score 3 points every game all season and I'll still want him gone. I don't believe in him anymore and won't again.

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Old
02-22-2009, 07:52 AM
  #37
Kimota
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Two things that were strange last night. This line produced yet they didn't have much chemistry. And Carbo underused them. You can just see the Habs having all the energy and the upperhand but then we keep seeing the grinders, we don't see much of the more talented lines and that's when the Habs started to falters. I know Carbo has done this before but last night was worst as you clearly see the Habs losing speed, energy and enthousiasm as Carbo become obsessed with the four-line technique by putting Stewart, etc...

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Old
02-22-2009, 08:06 AM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BaseballCoach View Post
Plekanec-Kovalev-Tanguay
Koivu-Akost-Pacioretty
Lapierre-d'Agostini-Higgins
Begin-Kostopoulos-Latendresse
If those are the positions you want them to play, you're out of your mind. If those are just the pairings, then they are pretty good.

I don't know about anyone else, I would love to give away Latendresse. He isn't giving anything to the team, he is such a crappy player. I would take him out and put Laraque at his position.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Erik Estrada View Post
The performance by that line is a smokescreen. I know the fans and announcers are fawning over Kovalev but he has no business on that line. The fundamentals are just not there.

What happens when AKostitsyn and Plekanec are matched to Kovalev this season (instead of matching them with other players: AKost-Koivu-D'Agostini or AKost-Plex-Pacioretty)

1-They have less shots on goal

Andrei Kostitsyn
-4 vs Wash (with MaxPac)
-4 vs Pitts (with MaxPac)
-1 Today (ATAK)

Thomas Plekanec
-6 vs Wash (with MaxPac)
-4 vs Pitts (with MaxPac)
-2 Today (ATAK)

Total for line
-12 vs Wash (with MaxPac)
-11 vs Pitts (with MaxPac)
-4 Today (ATAK) (1 goal on 1 shot for Kovalev)


2-They have more giveaways
-2 vs Wash (with MaxPac)
-2 vs Pitts (with MaxPac)
-4 Today (ATAK)-3 by Kovalev
(Kovalev in lineup = alot more shots on our goal-alot less on the stick of Plekanec and Kostitsyn)


It's the story of the season. That lines' fundamentals have not been there all season long. We got lucky today. We'll get murdered in the playoffs (if we get there) if this is our top line.
Well said.

Not that I don't like Kovalev, just I would rather see him go at this point. If he keeps it up, we can get something pretty good in return. Plus, I would love to see Akost be used more and it'll help him with his confidence.

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Old
02-22-2009, 10:41 AM
  #39
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Originally Posted by WeThreeKings View Post
Kovalev can score 3 points every game all season and I'll still want him gone. I don't believe in him anymore and won't again.
This.


It's not a bandwagon issue, it's seeing what's better for the TEAM, as proven by the numbers clearly displayed by the member Erik Estrada.

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Old
02-22-2009, 10:47 AM
  #40
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Great game by Kovalev but you're right - Pleks and A Kost went from dominating a game to just being passengers. Kovalev could have had the exact same game (because he's awesome) but with two players who wouldn't have had to alter their games to his.

Keep Kovy away from AKost and let's use our players strengths to the betterment of the team! Spread the wealth and create some lines that use rhyme and reason.

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Old
02-22-2009, 11:43 AM
  #41
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Originally Posted by Owen Wilson View Post
Andrei should never be on the same line Kovy, simple as that

not to mention Andrei needs to play on the right side

Either the following:

Pacioretty-Plekanec-Kovalev
Tanguay-Koivu-Kostitsyn

OR

Pacioretty-Plekanec-Kostitsyn
Tanguay-Koivu-Kovalev

need to happen (insert Higgins until Tanguay comes back)
Andrei can't play with Kovalev , Andrei needs to play on the right side , Andrei needs more ice time , Andrei needs more PP. time , Andrei can't play with this guy or that guy , Andrei's linemates don't pass him the puck enough , trading Kovalev will help Andrei etc... , I don't recall ever seeing so many excuses being made for one player .

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Old
02-22-2009, 11:53 AM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by habsfan44 View Post
Andrei can't play with Kovalev , Andrei needs to play on the right side , Andrei needs more ice time , Andrei needs more PP. time , Andrei can't play with this guy or that guy , Andrei's linemates don't pass him the puck enough , trading Kovalev will help Andrei etc... , I don't recall ever seeing so many excuses being made for one player .
I agree 100%. This guy gets babied more than anyone i've seen. He is a good player. If everyone claims that he can only play well when paired with specific players, then i guess he isn't as good as everyone thinks. Its ridiculous. He should be able to play well if I was on his line. With his speed and his shot, he should be able to create his own chances. Maybe at some point its time to think, maybe Andrei didnt play well today. Maybe his effort wasnt there etc ... its not everyones fault around him all the time.

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Old
02-22-2009, 12:47 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by habsfan44 View Post
Andrei can't play with Kovalev , Andrei needs to play on the right side , Andrei needs more ice time , Andrei needs more PP. time , Andrei can't play with this guy or that guy , Andrei's linemates don't pass him the puck enough , trading Kovalev will help Andrei etc... , I don't recall ever seeing so many excuses being made for one player .


Kovalev?

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Old
02-22-2009, 01:06 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by Iwishihadacup View Post
wow... jumping back on the bandwagon after one game...
pathetic
I was always on the bandwagon
but even if you trade him, you'll get nothing or just draft picks because of his ''bad reputation''.

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Old
02-22-2009, 01:11 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by Papa_Bear_21 View Post
Not to be pessimistic or anything, but did anyone else notice that Plecks and AK were much less of a presence in this game?

Only 3 shots between the two of them.
I just hope Kovy can keep up his intensity and effort level up.

So because Andrei and Pleks didn't play their best game, that MUST mean that its Kovalevs fault??? Give me a break! They didn't have any trouble playing well and putting up points last year with Kovalev, so why is it automatically Kovy's fault this year because Pleks and Andrei aren't performing???

Some people will go to great lengths to point the finger at Kovalev!

Maybe its Pleks and Andrei's fault that Kovy is having a bad year.....did you ever think of that???

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Old
02-22-2009, 01:34 PM
  #46
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You mean like the sick pass to Plekanec by Kovy? He's trying to let them do their own thing (as he said he would) as well as creating space for the other two by just being there.

Kovy...amazing game. Keep the line together.

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Old
02-22-2009, 02:02 PM
  #47
Kriss E
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I agree 100%. This guy gets babied more than anyone i've seen. He is a good player. If everyone claims that he can only play well when paired with specific players, then i guess he isn't as good as everyone thinks. Its ridiculous. He should be able to play well if I was on his line. With his speed and his shot, he should be able to create his own chances. Maybe at some point its time to think, maybe Andrei didnt play well today. Maybe his effort wasnt there etc ... its not everyones fault around him all the time.
Nobody is saying he has to be paired with specific players, people are saying he just shouldn't be paired with KOVALEV.

A.Kost needs to be the go-to guy of his line and needs to have the puck on his stick often.
Kovalev is a puck hog.

You don't need a doctorate to realize they don't quite pair up nicely.
If you have eyes, than you can see that A.Kost is much more visible/implied when isn't paired with Kovalev.

Just watch the games..

A.Kost had bad games, nobody is denying that, but he looks better much more comfortable on RW, the only time he plays on that side is when he's not with Kovalev...

Seriously..you don't have to be a genius to notice this..

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Old
02-22-2009, 02:06 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by WeThreeKings View Post
Kovalev can score 3 points every game all season and I'll still want him gone. I don't believe in him anymore and won't again.
This sounds, of couse, like a ridiculous statement. It was probably intended to be a bit shocking, I would guess.

However, it shows the irrationalism that arises with respect to Kovy.

Kovalev is not an "art form", nor is he a "philosophy". He is certainly not a prophet. No one needs to "believe in him".

Alexei Kovalev is a simple HOCKEY PLAYER. He earns $4.5M per year, which puts him in the range of a secondary talent. Kovalev is not paid as one of the elite talents in the league. He is not getting $10M or even $8M, nor even $6M.
If a player earning the salary of a secondary talent actually scored 3 points per game, I bet every rational persone would want him on their team. Think about the won-loss record. It is possible that Kovy could score 3 points and the team could lose, but that might happen once in 10 games.

So, in the extreme example WTK gave, we would have Kovy scoring 246 points and the team going something like 66-8-8 (140 points and walking away with the Conference Championship), and yet WTK would want Kovy gone.

Yeah, sure.

Some people are obviously just being stubborn here.

A little realism would be nice. Alex Kovalev is not the highest paid player on the Habs. He is in fact the 5th highest paid player. By and large, he earns his money. Could he do better some times? Sure, and so could Markov, Hamrlik, Tanguay and Koivu - who all earn higher salaries. It's the coaching staff's job to try and get the most out of each player, and the GM is entitled to help from time to time, too. Let's allow all of these people do their job.

Kovy is not a God to worship, but neither is he someone who must be damned when he does not consistently deliver God-like results.

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02-22-2009, 02:09 PM
  #49
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Originally Posted by Puckhead58 View Post
So because Andrei and Pleks didn't play their best game, that MUST mean that its Kovalevs fault??? Give me a break! They didn't have any trouble playing well and putting up points last year with Kovalev, so why is it automatically Kovy's fault this year because Pleks and Andrei aren't performing???

Some people will go to great lengths to point the finger at Kovalev!

Maybe its Pleks and Andrei's fault that Kovy is having a bad year.....did you ever think of that???
Well..that's why it's called the PAST.

Not because it worked before that it'll automatically work again.
Last year, Kovalev got more than 50% of his pts on PP. This year, we had a struggling PP.
It was also the break out season of A.Kost, with Kovy as a linemate, it was good for him.

Things change, and it's time for A.Kost to be the go-to guy of his line and take a bigger role.

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02-22-2009, 02:10 PM
  #50
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This sounds, of couse, like a ridiculous statement. It was probably intended to be a bit shocking, I would guess.

However, it shows the irrationalism that arises with respect to Kovy.

Kovalev is not an "art form", nor is he a "philosophy". He is certainly not a prophet. No one needs to "believe in him".

Alexei Kovalev is a simple HOCKEY PLAYER. He earns $4.5M per year, which puts him in the range of a secondary talent. Kovalev is not paid as one of the elite talents in the league. He is not getting $10M or even $8M, nor even $6M.
If a player earning the salary of a secondary talent actually scored 3 points per game, I bet every rational persone would want him on their team. Think about the won-loss record. It is possible that Kovy could score 3 points and the team could lose, but that might happen once in 10 games.

So, in the extreme example WTK gave, we would have Kovy scoring 246 points and the team going something like 66-8-8 (140 points and walking away with the Conference Championship), and yet WTK would want Kovy gone.

Yeah, sure.

Some people are obviously just being stubborn here.

A little realism would be nice. Alex Kovalev is not the highest paid player on the Habs. He is in fact the 5th highest paid player. By and large, he earns his money. Could he do better some times? Sure, and so could Markov, Hamrlik, Tanguay and Koivu - who all earn higher salaries. It's the coaching staff's job to try and get the most out of each player, and the GM is entitled to help from time to time, too. Let's allow all of these people do their job.

Kovy is not a God to worship, but neither is he someone who must be damned when he does not consistently deliver God-like results.
It is far from stubbornness, it's history. Kovalev has had the tag of being an inconsistent player, someone who has an immense talent but simply doesn't provide the necessary effort to shine on a regular basis and that, his entire career!

People were extremely hard on him two years ago and guess what? THEY WERE RIGHT! Why is that? Because he proved them wrong last year! Yes, he showed everyone of what he was capable of doing when putting a decent effort game in, game out and guess what? The results were there for both himself and the team.

So people are hard on him? Well... if he provided the quality of play as he did last year, would we be talking about him right now?

Yes, I forgot, what about his linemates? Two young kids who have greatly benefited from his greatness last year. Coincidence that they're not performing as well this year? I think not! They're carrying a ball and chain on their line just like Plekanec carried two of them two years ago. Yes, Plekanec, the youngster, was struggling until he was finally freed of Samsonov and Kovalev only to become our best producing forward in the second half of that season! Last year? Kovalev played and that line became the team's first line, ahead of Koivu's. Coincidence? Think about it!

You know what I find the most frustrating about Kovalev lovers? It's the excuses, the number of times they hang on to straws to try to build their point. It's the rose glasses regarding his on-ice performances instead of seeing him for what he truly is!

Why was he given the "C"? Why does Carbo compliment him? Why are his teammates trying their best to defend him? I'll tell you why! They all tried the hard way two years ago, Carbo, Souray and company. Instead of picking up his socks, he pouted even more. So they're trying to motivate him through positive reinforcement and that's also not working!

Time to cut the ties and let the team be a TEAM.

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