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Old
02-23-2009, 07:34 AM
  #51
dubplatepressure
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen View Post
The Leafs are like the rebuilding team that never actually did any rebuilding. Seriously, we have been waiting since 2007 for the other shoe to drop and the fire sale to happen, but we just keep getting more and more plugs.
Patience.



Fletch/Burke weren't exactly left with a pot of gold prospect-wise. Remember it takes more than a season and a half to restructure a hockey club.

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Old
02-23-2009, 07:42 AM
  #52
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Originally Posted by Stephen View Post
The Leafs are like the rebuilding team that never actually did any rebuilding. Seriously, we have been waiting since 2007 for the other shoe to drop and the fire sale to happen, but we just keep getting more and more plugs.
BINGO.

I hate this franchise more and more every day.

No rebuild will ever happen. Kabs and Kubs will be Leafs after the deadline, Antro will go for a 2nd and the Leafs will miss the playoffs by 1 point.

The thing i hate about this organization is... They FAILED last deadline.... And there gonna FAIL again.

I find it very hard to like this team right now.

So once again,

Failing to rebuild. Check
Failing to make the playoffs. Check
Failing to get a franchise type player via draft. Check

Disgraceful. And yes im negative but this is so true.

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Old
02-23-2009, 07:44 AM
  #53
mapes
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shaner89 View Post
BINGO.

I hate this franchise more and more every day.

No rebuild will ever happen. Kabs and Kubs will be Leafs after the deadline, Antro will go for a 2nd and the Leafs will miss the playoffs by 1 point.

The thing i hate about this organization is... They FAILED last deadline.... And there gonna FAIL again.

I find it very hard to like this team right now.

So once again,

Failing to rebuild. Check
Failing to make the playoffs. Check
Failing to get a franchise type player via draft. Check

Disgraceful. And yes im negative but this is so true.
I'd consider Schenn a franchise defencemen so you're wrong. What's with these guys thinking a rebuild is a quick thing?

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Old
02-23-2009, 07:46 AM
  #54
John-Eric Iannicello
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Don't screw-up this deadline Burke.

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Old
02-23-2009, 07:59 AM
  #55
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Originally Posted by MSP4LYFE View Post
He has to have recieved word that he is safe from somone in the upper management, why else would he risk being moved anywhere in the summer when he knows this isnt a playoff team? It just doesn't make sense.
I highly doubt that.....maybe the Leafs haven't got any real good offers. I thnk people overestimate what Kubina can get in return and the fact that he has another year remaining on his contract could make it difficult to move.

I don't think Burke would make Kubina immune to being traded. A 5 million dollar dman over 30 years old, inconsistent in his own end and getting slower as we speak.......can't see Burke wanting that for the future. I would much rather keep Kaberle around over Kubina. Kabby is cheaper and much more effective.

The expectations were extremely high for this trade deadline but it slowly looking like it's going to be a dud for the Leafs. As of now, it only looks as if Antro will be moved and maybe a guy like Jamal Mayers. So much for the pile of draft picks we were supposed to get

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Old
02-23-2009, 08:02 AM
  #56
AlMo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shaner89 View Post
BINGO.

I hate this franchise more and more every day.

No rebuild will ever happen. Kabs and Kubs will be Leafs after the deadline, Antro will go for a 2nd and the Leafs will miss the playoffs by 1 point.

The thing i hate about this organization is... They FAILED last deadline.... And there gonna FAIL again.

I find it very hard to like this team right now.

So once again,

Failing to rebuild. Check
Failing to make the playoffs. Check
Failing to get a franchise type player via draft. Check

Disgraceful. And yes im negative but this is so true.
You don't rebuild through the deadline. Everyone is expecting a complete firesale but so many fail to realize that the Leafs have very little to offer around the league. Kaberle is the only player really worth something imo and he has a NTC so it make the situation alot more complicated. Guys like Kubina and Antropov are decent players but the Leafs will be hardpressed to get what they want for those players.

The true rebuild comes on draft day.

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Old
02-23-2009, 08:13 AM
  #57
AlMo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen View Post
The Leafs are like the rebuilding team that never actually did any rebuilding. Seriously, we have been waiting since 2007 for the other shoe to drop and the fire sale to happen, but we just keep getting more and more plugs.
Firesale of what?

Kaberle has a NTC
Kubina has a NTC
Blake is in his mid 30's and signed for another 3 years
Finger is signed for another 3 years at a ridiculous price
Toskala has been crap and won't improve anyone's goaltending right now
Van Ryn is constantly injured
Frogren has proven very little
Antropov is a rental player who has never scored more than 60 points in a season
Poni has never scored more than 50 points
Moore is a 3rd line rental player
Mayers is a 4th liner with 3 goals and another year on his contract
Hagman is decent but let's face it, he has limited value

There isn't much for the Leafs to work with. Antropov is on his way out and Burke wants a 1st but will a team offer that? What will a team offer for a guy like Poni? An 2nd rd pick? Mayers is worth very little. Moore can fetch a draft pick but are the Leafs better off signing him? Could the Leafs get a great package for either Kabby or Kubina from a team both would be willing to go to?

Burke is in a tough spot and some people are kidding themselves if they think Burke is going to clean house and maximize his returns.


Stajan, Grabovski, White, Schenn, Stralman, Tlusty, Kulemin, Mitchell are all youngsters that are supposed to be a part of the rebuild so dealing them makes little sense.

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Old
02-23-2009, 08:27 AM
  #58
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if one of kubina or kaberle isn't gone at the deadline then **** the leafs

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Old
02-23-2009, 08:31 AM
  #59
Cool Hand Luke
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Originally Posted by dynrehab View Post
Kubina's value at the trade deadline will be good. His value at the draft will be scary bad, after we find out what the cap will be for next year. Cap-Maggeddon will have Kubina in a Leaf uniform for 4 years without a single playoff game.
I disagree. Phoenix is the perfect example. They are losing Derek Morris to free agency, leaving a huge hole in their defense. If you were the Coyotes, in today's uncertain financial climate, would you rather:

A) Re-sign Derek Morris to a 4 year 20 million dollar deal (he makes 4 mil/year now and will definitely get a raise)

B) Sign a free agent D-man like Bouwmeester, Komisarek, Boynton, Kuba, Blake (the only defenders that are comparable to Kubina) for more than 5 million for multiple years.

C) Trade for a dependable defender, who has a Stanley cup for ONE year at 5 million.

I think for financially strapped teams, contract term length is just as important, if not more important than cap hit. Think of it like the NBA, and think of Kubina as an expiring contract. It gives any team that picks him up the option of letting him go if things go badly after next season. Same goes for Ponikarovsky. 29 year old big forwards with a 2 million cap hit and an expiring contract do not come around every day.

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Old
02-23-2009, 08:37 AM
  #60
Cool Hand Luke
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At draft:

To Phoenix
Kubina
Ponikarovsky
Late 1st rounder obtained in Kaberle trade (Boston, NJ, San Jose)

To Toronto
Phx 1st rounder (top 10)
Phx 2nd rounder

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Old
02-23-2009, 08:38 AM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MSP4LYFE View Post
According to AM640, Maple Leafs defenceman, Pavel Kubina will not submit a list of 10 destinations he would accept being dealt to at the Trade Deadline. I personally believe he was given inside information by the coach or GM that he is immune from the fire sale, why else would he risk being shiped out to any of the other 29 NHL franchises in the summer?
what a joke that would turn out to be.

I dont care if Wilson has a hard on for him....he should be shipped out!

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Old
02-23-2009, 08:50 AM
  #62
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http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog/Howar...Summer/3/19564

Quote:
”I like the way Kubina has played the last while and he’s a quality person. With Kaberle, his agent wants to keep some control over the process. [Former GM] John Ferguson was smart is assuring these no-trade clauses are lifted if we miss the playoffs. Pavel doesn’t want to provide me a list… he’ll take his chances over the summer. Kaberle’s agent wants to maintain some control, but it’s highly unlikely Tomas is going anywhere.”
Praise for JFj

Quote:
“A general manager has to have a trust factor with his players,” Burke said. “If you look at our Christmas freeze, it’s longer than other teams around the league, and we don’t ask our people to waive no-trade clauses. I think players deserve a certain amount of respect and should feel that respect from management.
Not so much praise for others.

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Old
02-23-2009, 08:55 AM
  #63
Transplanted Caper
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Burke has always praised JFJ. He, like most of us, I think found it pretty sickening how JFJ was treated at the end of his tenure here by the higher-ups.

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Old
02-23-2009, 09:08 AM
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shaner89 View Post
BINGO.

I hate this franchise more and more every day.

No rebuild will ever happen. Kabs and Kubs will be Leafs after the deadline, Antro will go for a 2nd and the Leafs will miss the playoffs by 1 point.

The thing i hate about this organization is... They FAILED last deadline.... And there gonna FAIL again.

I find it very hard to like this team right now.

So once again,

Failing to rebuild. Check
Failing to make the playoffs. Check
Failing to get a franchise type player via draft. Check

Disgraceful. And yes im negative but this is so true.
I'm starting to think so as well. I've supported the Leafs since i started watching hockey as a kid around 1999, but I'm drawing the line at the deadline.

If the only [real] trade Burke makes is for Antropov I'm cutting my losses and moving on to a new team. The prospect of it sounds horrible, but I'm not putting up with anymore Maple Leaf BS.

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Old
02-23-2009, 09:10 AM
  #65
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Kubina will have more value at next years deadline anyway. He'll be a UFA at seasons end. I'm sure we could get a low first or second for him. And it doesn't hurt to keep him around. Contrary to popular belief, we do need veterans on this team to mentor, tutor, and shield the younger players from the controversy that comes with losing. Add to the fact that MVR is always injured and Frogen is AHL caliber at best, and we do have a need for experienced NHL d-men.

The rebuild is not going to happen at the trade deadline only. It will partially happen at the deadline (Antropov, Moore, Mayers, Poni all traded). It will partially happen at the draft (top 5 pick, plus newly acquired trade deadline draft picks). And it will partially happen through free agency as well (maybe not in the next couple of years). It will take time and we will need to use all avenues available to us. Patience is the key.

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Old
02-23-2009, 09:11 AM
  #66
ForzaZuffa
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Originally Posted by draeko17 View Post
Did you hear him say he was going to provide that list? Or did the media report a rumour?
Did you hear that a deal was done at the deadline but he backed out? He has a clause in the NTC that requires him to submit a list of 10 teams he'd accept a trade to if asked by management. The media reported he was asked, it's common sense really.

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Locke View Post
You're such a typical fan. The fat kid who just sits back and watches everything from his TV. Thinks the world revolves around him. Entirely unaware that the players on his favourite team are real live people, with real lives, and real feelings.
Sorry, buddy, I forgot Mr. Kubina reads the forums on HFboards and get his poor little feelings hurt by me calling him a fool.

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Old
02-23-2009, 09:51 AM
  #67
nuck
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MSP4LYFE View Post
According to AM640, Maple Leafs defenceman, Pavel Kubina will not submit a list of 10 destinations he would accept being dealt to at the Trade Deadline. I personally believe he was given inside information by the coach or GM that he is immune from the fire sale, why else would he risk being shiped out to any of the other 29 NHL franchises in the summer?
How reliable is that? Are they quoting a rumour? Have they heard no list yet and deduced from that no list is ever coming? Thefourthperiod.com was the original source for the Kubina list rumour. Are they more or less believable than the source at AM640? I don't know who broke the story so I don't know if he changed hs mind or he never said a list in the first place. That would make a difference as to whether he would still waive if Burke approached him.

Edit - Nevermind. The quote is actually on their site and nothing vague about it
"He does not want to submit a list of teams," Burke told me from the press box at Madison Square Garden in the second intermission of Sunday's game. "He wants to stay and that's fine with me. I think his play has improved lately. He's a quality person and that's all good."

Having said that, nothing in the quote says "we're keeping him", just that they would respect the terms of the NTC. That fits with trying to make the club more attractive to FAs while still only delaying a trade. Also, maybe a happy Kubina finishes the year on a high and pushes up his value a bit.


Last edited by nuck: 02-23-2009 at 10:54 AM.
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Old
02-23-2009, 09:51 AM
  #68
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Originally Posted by ForzaZuffa View Post
Did you hear that a deal was done at the deadline but he backed out? He has a clause in the NTC that requires him to submit a list of 10 teams he'd accept a trade to if asked by management. The media reported he was asked, it's common sense really.



Sorry, buddy, I forgot Mr. Kubina reads the forums on HFboards and get his poor little feelings hurt by me calling him a fool.

Uh, yeah, I don't think you really understood my post.

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Old
02-23-2009, 10:04 AM
  #69
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There isn't 10 teams in the whole World that would want Kubina at $5 mil per, so I am not surprised Kubina can't name 10 NHL teams.

What does that say about the character of a player that embraces losing year after year and refuses to leave to compete and contend for a Stanley Cup instead?. Kubina's country club mentality and preference for shortened seasons would be the exact reason if I was a GM I would trade and remove him.

From Kubina's perspective he saw his value was the aging Kyle McLaren and a pick so the rest of the NHL has not shown him a lot of love, and so much like McCabe previously, he hides behind his NTC as a crutch to avoid embarrassment for himself. If he submits a list and Burke comes on his PC and says "No Interest" just like McCabe then that reflects poorly on him.

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Old
02-23-2009, 10:06 AM
  #70
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I'm starting to think too many people believe NHL '09 is a realistic game!

What would you prefer? Trade Kablerle for less than he's worth - or keep a talented puck moving D on a great contract for anther 2 years?

Personally, I'm thinking more and more that Kaberle will be dealt at the deadline for a great package, he'd be too valuable to a contending team and affordable to keep going forward - some GM under pressure will be willing to overpay for him. But I also feel glad that we have a GM who's willing to wait for the right deal rather than make a stupid one just to show people he's doing something.

Kubina will be worth more in mid July when the FA's are getting signed to big contracts over long term and his $5mil and one year start looking really good.

When you sell anything - whether it's a home, a car, a comic book, or a hockey player ... it's all about timimg. You have to try and be patient to find the peak market conditions where the demand far exceeds the supply. That take patience. This is notNHL '09!

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Old
02-23-2009, 10:08 AM
  #71
ForzaZuffa
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Uh, yeah, I don't think you really understood my post.
Yeah, comparing someone to a fat little kid with no consideration of pro athletes' feelings really has a lot to do with discussions on hockey. What is there to understand about your daft drivel??

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Old
02-23-2009, 10:15 AM
  #72
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now i hear on fan 590 burke saying dont expect much activity at the trade deadline

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Old
02-23-2009, 10:17 AM
  #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shaner89 View Post
BINGO.

I hate this franchise more and more every day.

No rebuild will ever happen. Kabs and Kubs will be Leafs after the deadline, Antro will go for a 2nd and the Leafs will miss the playoffs by 1 point.

The thing i hate about this organization is... They FAILED last deadline.... And there gonna FAIL again.

I find it very hard to like this team right now.

So once again,

Failing to rebuild. Check
Failing to make the playoffs. Check
Failing to get a franchise type player via draft. Check

Disgraceful. And yes im negative but this is so true.

miss the playoffs by one point?

i can understand if you are upset about players you want moved not getting moved but how on earth to you think we are going to be good enough to climb the ladder and get into a position to miss the playoffs by one point... how exactly is that going to happen?

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Old
02-23-2009, 10:30 AM
  #74
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Originally Posted by Squiffy View Post
Guess we trade him in the offseason then. Here's a guy to look at, rather then Mats, discussing scuttling movement. Trade done done last year that he supposedly agreed to, changes his mind last second, and now won't waive again? Alright buddy... hey, he has the right I suppose.

Burke is right, JFJ did make a heads up move with these offseason free trade agreements.
I think he did us a favour by blocking a trade last year - but not this year. I think this trade deadline would be the best time to move him as he could help one of the contenders. But this year I think he increased his avalue and we'll get more for him in the off season than we would have last year.

The clauses were a great idea - too bad it wasn't in Tucker's contract too.

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Old
02-23-2009, 10:38 AM
  #75
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Originally Posted by p.l.f. View Post
now i hear on fan 590 burke saying dont expect much activity at the trade deadline
Can't say I didn't see this coming. Kind've makes you think this whole rebuild thing was a scam.

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