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Old
02-26-2009, 02:24 PM
  #26
KreiMeARiver*
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aaronm_88 View Post
After hearing Burke set the price for Kaberle at a 1st rounder, roster player and top prospect and watching a few Rangers games the last few weeks and thinking they could benefit from a puck moving dman like kaberle what about this..

To NYR
Kaberle
Moore

To TOR
09 1st
Dubinsky
Del Zotto or Sanguinetti


Rangers get a true puck moving dman and powerplay qb, something I think they desperately need in my opinion after watching some of the stiffs they have on the blueline. They also get Moore who can sub in for the loss of Dubinsky for this season, and can contribute to a playoff run and provide some leadership and positivity to the dressing room.

Leafs get a young American for Burke in Dubinsky who will likely end up as a decent 2way 2nd line center, and a young offensive dman that can hopefully eventually fill kaberle's shoes and combine to make a nice pairing with the defensive Schenn in the future, as well as the 1st round pick they covet.

I don't think this quite works with the Cap, so it might need some tweaking..
ugh no thank you! Del Zotto isn't going anywhere...or at least he better not. No more declining players, thanks.

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Old
02-26-2009, 02:39 PM
  #27
eco's bones
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More fair--would be if Toronto wants a young player--they should take a toxic asset back. Counter proposal Kaberle for 1 of Gomez, Drury, Redden (your choice) and Sanguinetti.

Figuring the Rangers are going to wind up drafting anywhere from 11-16--I have visions of Zack Kassian--big power forward and would be very reluctant to move this years first rounder.

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Old
02-26-2009, 02:46 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by GAGLine View Post
How is it an excellent proposal? Oh yeah, you're a leafs fan lol.

This deal wouldn't work because of the cap and even if it did, it's overpayment by the Rangers. I wouldn't give you Dubi for Kaberle straight up, let alone throw in a 1st and a good prospect.

You can debate all you want which is the better player, but a 22 year old power forward (who won't make a lot of money for the next few years) is worth more to the Rangers than a 30 yo PP QB (who will make more than the Rangers can afford under the cap), especially considering we have both Sanguinetti and Del Zotto waiting in the wings.
Wow. It's guys like you that make Leafs fans look smart, while at the same time claiming they aren't.
Nice job. I appreciate that double whammy.

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Old
02-26-2009, 02:48 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by GAGLine View Post
You're right. So what? We should sacrifice the future so we can make the playoffs and get bounced in the 1st round?
Yes, that's typically the point of a deadline deal...are you new here?

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Old
02-26-2009, 02:51 PM
  #30
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How about Kaberle for Redden and Drury?

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Old
02-26-2009, 02:57 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by DougGilmour93 View Post
Umm, hello.....

Carter (of last year) >>>>>>>>>>>> Dubinsky

We were going to get Carter and a 1st for Kabs last year.

No way Dubs even comes close to Carter. Dubs is a great all round player, but doesn't have much in the offense department. He is vastly overrated on these boards.
You know how play value fluctuates? The same applies to Kaberle. Kaberle isn't the same Kaberle he was 3 years ago, nor is he worth as much as he was last year. 1 year older, 1 year removed from one of his best and oh yeah, 1 less year on that great contract of his. Deflation is a *****.

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Old
02-26-2009, 05:01 PM
  #32
eco's bones
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Some Maple Leafs fans might want to take a gander down the Rangers roster especially at forward. Dubinsky hit 40 points as a 21 year old with Jagr on the winger--this year he's at 30 and should be close to last years point total without Jagr. One can figure he'll be a regular 50 + point player sometime in the near future and for some time to come. What else they might notice besides his youth is he has good size and you won't find anyone else with any skill at all on the Rangers that plays as physical as he does. And after that is the matter of the contract--making 633 K and an RFA in the off season. He is a good deal for the Rangers and honestly I wouldn't move him for Kaberle either even though I think Kaberle is an excellent defenseman but I don't think that Kaberle makes much difference with the team we have now--he would give surely give us more mobility and puck movement but he's not going to change the non-aggresive nature of the team nor do I think he's going to do much for our confidence addled forwards like Drury (who hasn't scored in 16 games) or Naslund.

Anyway the Rangers don't need to add another big contract without at least getting rid of one. They don't need to get older, smaller and less physical. Whether they make the playoffs or not--they're not going to last long if they do. There's no reason for us to gut our team of our best young players and prospects and as well it would be better for Kaberle if he went instead to a team with a better chance of winning.

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Old
02-26-2009, 05:24 PM
  #33
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No matter how good our defence is we can't score goals n that's our biggest problem n I hope that's the problem the rangers deal with b4 gettin another puck-moving defenceman. That the rangers spent so much money on PP qb's. And have 2 comming up in the farm system meanwhile we have no pure scores in the system

Pass.

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Old
02-26-2009, 05:50 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eco's bones View Post
More fair--would be if Toronto wants a young player--they should take a toxic asset back. Counter proposal Kaberle for 1 of Gomez, Drury, Redden (your choice) and Sanguinetti.

Figuring the Rangers are going to wind up drafting anywhere from 11-16--I have visions of Zack Kassian--big power forward and would be very reluctant to move this years first rounder.
Your proposal assumes that Sanguinetti >>>>> Kaberle.

Thanks for the lark.

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Old
02-26-2009, 10:06 PM
  #35
eco's bones
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Originally Posted by embracedbias View Post
Your proposal assumes that Sanguinetti >>>>> Kaberle.

Thanks for the lark.
My proposal might assume that Sanguinetti has his entire career in front of him and FWIW is an $855 K salary should he make the NHL next year. I'd say it's 50/50 though I'd expect if he doesn't he will get in a few games. Anyway that contract is very cap friendly and in these hard(er) economic times it's not only good to go with youth but a thrifty thing to do as well.

In any case look at this way--it's much fairer value than the initial proposal by the Leafs poster of Kaberle and Moore for Dubinsky, Rangers 1st in 09 and one of either Sanguinetti and Del Zotto. Basically Maple Leafs get 3 of our best young players and prospects and we get a chance to go nowhere in this years playoffs.

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Old
02-26-2009, 10:10 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eco's bones View Post
My proposal might assume that Sanguinetti has his entire career in front of him and FWIW is an $855 K salary should he make the NHL next year. I'd say it's 50/50 though I'd expect if he doesn't he will get in a few games. Anyway that contract is very cap friendly and in these hard(er) economic times it's not only good to go with youth but a thrifty thing to do as well.

In any case look at this way--it's much fairer value than the initial proposal by the Leafs poster of Kaberle and Moore for Dubinsky, Rangers 1st in 09 and one of either Sanguinetti and Del Zotto. Basically Maple Leafs get 3 of our best young players and prospects and we get a chance to go nowhere in this years playoffs.
That'd be more of a valid objection if Kaberle was a rental.

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Old
02-27-2009, 01:48 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by grabo84 View Post
That'd be more of a valid objection if Kaberle was a rental.
The Rangers have so many structural problems right now that Kaberle is not what's going to turn them around. The only real way out of the woods is finding better, younger players--and the Rangers need to get bigger especially at forward. We might be the smallest team up front and it's been showing on a nightly basis.

Kaberle, to me is a guy you add when you really got a shot. My critique is not intended to say that he wouldn't bring back more than my last proposal from somebody else--though the Dubinksy, 1st 09 and one of DZ or Sanguinetti was overreaching--we just need to protect our future because truthfully with the veterans we have were not even close to being a contender. Of course I'm not Glen Sather--who knows what he's going to do.

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02-27-2009, 03:55 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by eco's bones View Post
The Rangers have so many structural problems right now that Kaberle is not what's going to turn them around. The only real way out of the woods is finding better, younger players--and the Rangers need to get bigger especially at forward. We might be the smallest team up front and it's been showing on a nightly basis.

Kaberle, to me is a guy you add when you really got a shot. My critique is not intended to say that he wouldn't bring back more than my last proposal from somebody else--though the Dubinksy, 1st 09 and one of DZ or Sanguinetti was overreaching--we just need to protect our future because truthfully with the veterans we have were not even close to being a contender. Of course I'm not Glen Sather--who knows what he's going to do.
Oh okay, so you're talking about a full-on rebuild. That makes more sense to me.

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Old
02-27-2009, 04:34 PM
  #39
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Oh okay, so you're talking about a full-on rebuild. That makes more sense to me.
Yes--the Rangers have no cap room and truthfully need 5 or 6 pieces to be a real contender. The only arguably elite player is Lundquvist. Our forwards are too small, are not getting to the net. We don't have a guy who can really finish and to be honest Kaberle's mobility and puck movement would be great but without real goal scoring threats what's it worth? They take a lot of unscreened and/or long range shots. At the beginning of the year they found ways to win but they've never really broken out of the goal scoring rut--Naslund leads the team with 19, Zherdev has 16 and I can't remember when he scored the last one. Drury hasn't scored a goal in 17 games. Now we find ways to lose. Not tough enough on the back end either.

So while Kaberle would definitely be an upgrade over Rozsival or Redden--we also need a legit finisher, at least two big mucker and grinder forwards with some skill and a no nonsense defender also with some skill.

Looking at Del Zotto and Sanguinetti. Del Zotto wowed everyone in training camp. Played two preseason games and held up in his own end well and moved the puck on the pwp as well any of the veterans. He may need to put on a few more pounds but he has a stocky frame. He has a shot next year depending on what direction the Rangers go in vis-a-vis free agency. Sanguinetti also has a shot--is a real good puck mover with a great shot but not very solid in his own end. As I stated somewhere above I expect the Rangers to be choosing between 11 and 16 (15 and 16 means they sneak into the playoffs) and am hoping that someone like Kassian is available.

That's my assessment anyway--others are more optimistic. But yeah IMO we need to rebuild.

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Old
02-27-2009, 04:36 PM
  #40
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If I have the choice between giving away a building block of the future for a player that will help now and only now to make the playoffs just to lose in 5 games or keeping that player and missing the playoffs, I'm keeping the player.

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Old
02-27-2009, 04:39 PM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nikita Filatov View Post
Kaberle=Dubi+1st
Moore<<<<DelZotto/Sang
Kaberle > Dubi and a 1st

Dubinsky, Del Zotto, 1st rounder is a fair price for Kaberle. Dubinsky is a good young player but very overrated. I think he has at most 2nd line center potential. The kid has crashed and burned this season after scoring only 4 goals in like 50 games.

Del Zotto is a pure offensive dman. He struggles a grea deal in his own and he will need a lot of work before becoming an NHL regular.

It's not like the Leafs are getting the creme de la creme in this deal. Both are good young players and would be a welcome addition to the Leafs organization but I think you underrate Kabby's abilities here and his value.

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02-27-2009, 04:40 PM
  #42
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If I have the choice between giving away a building block of the future for a player that will help now and only now to make the playoffs just to lose in 5 games or keeping that player and missing the playoffs, I'm keeping the player.
Kaberle will not only help now but he will help next season and the season after that and even further down if the Rangers choose to re-sign him.

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02-27-2009, 04:45 PM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlMo View Post
Kaberle will not only help now but he will help next season and the season after that and even further down if the Rangers choose to re-sign him.
The Rangers need forwards.

The defense is fine for the next few years.

Staal, Girardi, Sanguinetti, Del Zotto as young guys. Redden and Rozsival as contracts that can't be moved. Potter can play 5-6th.

Their problem is they can't get the puck in the net.

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Old
02-27-2009, 10:08 PM
  #44
eco's bones
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Originally Posted by AlMo View Post
Kaberle will not only help now but he will help next season and the season after that and even further down if the Rangers choose to re-sign him.
Then why don't you guys keep them. No--because you're going nowhere and want to rebuild your team--with some of our best young players. I understand that--but don't let the standings fool you--the Rangers are in pretty much the same boat--only with big cap issues as well because they've tied so much money in guys who aren't worth it. The only real way forward is to rebuild and I'll say again I wouldn't trade Dubinsky straight up for Kaberle because he's still young and developing. He's more or less on the same point scoring pace as last year--without Jagr on his wing for half the season this time. So I'm not disappointed in his numbers. I see him as a 50 + point player in the near future--not a first liner but a guy also with intangibles--and again look at who is playing forward for us--he stands out as not only young, but he's skilled, bigger and more physical by far than anybody else that we have. If we had 3 or 4 guys like him in his age range (like a lot of other teams do)--sure--but we don't--he's the only one and I wouldn't move him unless it was for something really special and something that we really need. End of rant.

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