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Game #63 - 02.26.09 | Florida Panthers @ NY Rangers | 7:00 PM - MSG (HD)

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Old
02-27-2009, 08:24 AM
  #676
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Originally Posted by Bluenote13 View Post
Yes, but were you bored?
The game was great, but it was one of the worst atmospheres I have seen in a long time. You would think Daigle was out there making rink turns with the lack of enthusiasm.

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02-27-2009, 08:28 AM
  #677
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Torts didnt seem to think so, but I definitely think our play sagged in the 3rd.

with that said, Henrik gave up a SUPER soft goal, and Gomez totally missed an assignment, and wham bam thank you maam we lost.

We totally and completely outplayed the Panthers tonight. Total bad luck that we lost. im not concerned. The play is there. The results will come.
So basically, not a consitent 60 minute effort, where have we heard that before?

And I got a kick out of Torts post game interview, he was upbeat, pointing out the positives, confident that we'll get things going. Again, where have we heard that before?

That being said, its still only 2 games. I'm really shocked the 'why didnt sather fire Renney earlier' crowd hasnt shown up yet....

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02-27-2009, 08:29 AM
  #678
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I suggest you try (no need to wear skates, just stick and puck on hardwood floor) and let us know.
If you are patient, lifting the puck is very easy, you should know this. These guys have no confidence and as a result are impatient and are rushing their chances. Either that or at other times they're hesitating for too long.

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02-27-2009, 08:31 AM
  #679
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It's really a shame the Dubinsky goal wasn't reviewed. In retrospect, that error probably changed the outcome.

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Originally Posted by ThirdEye View Post
You don't need a sniper to put a puck into an empty net. These guys are struggling because they have no patience, gripping their stick too hard, and overall just making poor decisions.
You're probably right. How do you rectify the situation quickly though? A really loose practice of just shooting today? Just give it time?


Overall, big hit to playoff chances, but the team is as good as the Panthers and Sabres w/ Lalime, better than what I've seen from Carolina. When everyone can just r....e....l....a....x...., the fruits of the labor will hopefully be rewarded.

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02-27-2009, 08:38 AM
  #680
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02-27-2009, 08:39 AM
  #681
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Originally Posted by PruBlue25 View Post
If you are patient, lifting the puck is very easy, you should know this. These guys have no confidence and as a result are impatient and are rushing their chances. Either that or at other times they're hesitating for too long.
May be, but how do one know the difference between "uptempo" and "rushing"? I am serious here. How would you explain that in simple terms? Patience is Renney's word, isn't it?

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02-27-2009, 08:41 AM
  #682
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May be, but how do one know the difference between "uptempo" and "rushing"? I am serious here. How would you explain that in simple terms? Patience is a Renney's term, isn't it?
"Uptemo" implies a level of control and sensibility. "Rushing" implies a lack of those things.

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02-27-2009, 08:47 AM
  #683
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Originally Posted by we want cup View Post
"Uptemo" implies a level of control and sensibility. "Rushing" implies a lack of those things.
Exactly. Thus, "uptempo" w/o talent turns into "rushing". We got plenty of evidence to it. It is very difficult to teach control and sensibility, there is no drill for it.

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02-27-2009, 08:55 AM
  #684
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Exactly. Thus, "uptempo" w/o talent turns into "rushing". We got plenty of evidence to it. It is very difficult to teach control and sensibility, there is no drill for it.
IDK, I understand that this isn't the most talented team in the NHL. However, these guys all made it this far. They all have scored goals at the NHL level. Granted, only 4 players on this team have scored 30 or more goals in their careers.

However, your scoring touch just doesn't disappear. I'd say that's the last thing, look at Shanahan. Speed is gone, but the shot isn't.

Naslund can still score, we've seen it all year. He may be invisible when he's not putting the puck into the net, but he at least scores.

Drury scored over 30 twice. Sure they were on highly offensive teams, but you don't suddenly forget how to score. He also scored 25 last year as a 2nd/3rd liner. This year he's playing the same role. You can say that teams aren't putting their best defenders on Jagr, etc. However, they're still putting them on Gomez's line, not Drury's, therefore Drury should be in the same situation as last season.

Prucha scored 30 once and 22 the next season when he finally got a chance. He had Jagr & Nylander, and all that, but he scored a lot of goals with nice shots. You don't suddenly lose that skill.

Gomez isn't a scorer, but even he scored over 30 goals in a season. Sure it could have been a fluke season, but the guy made it this far. He has to know how to score.

Dawes, people have said he's scored at every level he's played at. Does his scoring touch just disappear all of a sudden?


I think that 75% of it is confidence and 25% is talent. Sure we don't have a true goal scorer, but that still shouldn't mean that with all of the quality chances that this team is generating that they can't score.

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02-27-2009, 09:15 AM
  #685
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IDK, I understand that this isn't the most talented team in the NHL. However, these guys all made it this far. They all have scored goals at the NHL level. Granted, only 4 players on this team have scored 30 or more goals in their careers.

However, your scoring touch just doesn't disappear. I'd say that's the last thing, look at Shanahan. Speed is gone, but the shot isn't.

Naslund can still score, we've seen it all year. He may be invisible when he's not putting the puck into the net, but he at least scores.

Drury scored over 30 twice. Sure they were on highly offensive teams, but you don't suddenly forget how to score. He also scored 25 last year as a 2nd/3rd liner. This year he's playing the same role. You can say that teams aren't putting their best defenders on Jagr, etc. However, they're still putting them on Gomez's line, not Drury's, therefore Drury should be in the same situation as last season.

Prucha scored 30 once and 22 the next season when he finally got a chance. He had Jagr & Nylander, and all that, but he scored a lot of goals with nice shots. You don't suddenly lose that skill.

Gomez isn't a scorer, but even he scored over 30 goals in a season. Sure it could have been a fluke season, but the guy made it this far. He has to know how to score.

Dawes, people have said he's scored at every level he's played at. Does his scoring touch just disappear all of a sudden?


I think that 75% of it is confidence and 25% is talent. Sure we don't have a true goal scorer, but that still shouldn't mean that with all of the quality chances that this team is generating that they can't score.
Your logic is flawed by bringing up these past results. In every instance where a current Ranger scored 30 plus goals, they had at least one elite teammate...either playing on the same line, or on a different line which deflected the defensive attention. Wheres the elite player on this team? Hes in the nets, which doesnt exactly help our goalscoring woes.

You cant wrangle up a bunch of support players and expect them to carry the load offensively. As a result, this team couldnt score in a whorehouse with a fist full of 50's.

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02-27-2009, 09:24 AM
  #686
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Bluenote...

to be fair to Torts, it is his second day on the job and their clearly seems to be a different system and a different work ethic on the ice. I'm not saying that's a game changer or something that will definitely generate better results, but at least he's trying something different as what was being done in the past stopped working with this group. I'd give Torts' system a bit more time to begin taking effect on the players before I start saying same 'ol, same 'ol (and to be honest, I think there's more than a 50% chance I'd be saying that, but I wanted for him to at least come out of the upcoming break to get things going with this bunch).

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02-27-2009, 09:25 AM
  #687
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Originally Posted by PruBlue25 View Post
IDK, I understand that this isn't the most talented team in the NHL. However, these guys all made it this far. They all have scored goals at the NHL level. Granted, only 4 players on this team have scored 30 or more goals in their careers.

However, your scoring touch just doesn't disappear.
My point is Torts started from the wrong end. Eventually he will get to the point Renney left off and hopefully will be more successful in it.
Hockey is a game. Any game must have an element of deception in it. Hockey is amazing in that regard, because, unlike, say, baseball or football where coach could and should take care of that element, in hockey the players must be doing that on their own. They must deceive the defenseman (same in football) to go by him and most importantly do that to goaltender to score. You must constantly show certain intention and then do something different and unexpected. That is the game. The rest is an effort and athleticism, but that what swimming is required. There is no game in swimming. By focusing on effort and athleticism you can always please the fans, but hockey is no swimming, you have to fool the opposition to be successful. Being a "crook" is a talent. You can teach anything, but talent allows you, as coach to save valuable time.
Less talent, more time is needed. Anyone could become as good as Ovechkin in 30 or 40 years of intensive practice, but he is as good as he is at 22 years of age in his ability to deceive (plus he does well many other things).
I think Torts should be patient and focus more of the game aspect of the hockey, rather then stressing teamwork and athleticism. If not, his "uptempo" will always end up as "rushing".

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02-27-2009, 09:32 AM
  #688
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Yes, but were you bored?
No! Finally. Entertaining hockey. Almost as the Gods intended. Now if only the team was good.

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02-27-2009, 09:33 AM
  #689
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Your scoring touch disappears if you are the guy that has to score, but never played that role before in your career. If this team had a legit 35+ goal scorer we would all be looking to tweak instead of rebuild. Replace Dawes, for example, and add 20 to 30 goals and this is a totally different team.

On a night like last vs the Panthers, the Rangers get the 2nd goal and Florida goes in to the 3rd with ~15 shots they are done. The Rangers add a little pressure, Florida opens up and the next thing you know you have a 4-0 shutout.

The Rangers are one solid offensive threat away from being a legit #4-#5 seed. There's no telling what happens to guys like Dubinsky and Dawes and Callahan when they don't have to be the goto guys every night.

Everything that's wrong with this team points to adding 1 goal scorer. Gomez gets his 70 points and everyone loves him. Naslund is a steal with 30 goals. Dubinsky puts up a solid 50 point season. Calahan and Dawes chip in 35 between them and all is right with the world. Lundqvist gets more shutouts and looks more dominating because he knows he has some breathing room to do his thing.

All of the anger pointed at certain players is warranted to an extent, but the Rangers have a cast of contributing characters, not goto guys. Gomez and Drury are not goto guys and just because boat loads of money got thrown at them.

It's easy to want to hang Sather for not having the perfect team and being able to precisely assemble a team with hindsight that we all enjoy. (And, no, you don't get credit for saying 'I told you so' months ago, because in your eyes Sather does everything wrong anyway.) Maybe he has a plan and he's sticking to it? Sather has a chance in the next few days to show us that his puzzle is not complete.

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02-27-2009, 09:33 AM
  #690
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to be fair to Torts, it is his second day on the job and their clearly seems to be a different system and a different work ethic on the ice. I'm not saying that's a game changer or something that will definitely generate better results, but at least he's trying something different as what was being done in the past stopped working with this group. I'd give Torts' system a bit more time to begin taking effect on the players before I start saying same 'ol, same 'ol (and to be honest, I think there's more than a 50% chance I'd be saying that, but I wanted for him to at least come out of the upcoming break to get things going with this bunch).
I said its only 2 games, but isn't it ironic that Torts post game couldve been Renney, almost word for word?

I see the change in style, I still wonder if this group has the talent to finish, in any system.

It'll just be disappointing, but not unfamiliar, if they start to 'get it' about 2 weeks from now then we finish a point or two out of the playoffs.

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02-27-2009, 09:35 AM
  #691
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No! Finally. Entertaining hockey. Almost as the Gods intended. Now if only the team was good.
So instead of the usual 4 good chances we got under Renney, the 7 we got last night we're more enjoyable? I get what you're saying.

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02-27-2009, 09:39 AM
  #692
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Your scoring touch disappears if you are the guy that has to score, but never played that role before in your career. If this team had a legit 35+ goal scorer we would all be looking to tweak instead of rebuild. Replace Dawes, for example, and add 20 to 30 goals and this is a totally different team.

On a night like last vs the Panthers, the Rangers get the 2nd goal and Florida goes in to the 3rd with ~15 shots they are done. The Rangers add a little pressure, Florida opens up and the next thing you know you have a 4-0 shutout.

The Rangers are one solid offensive threat away from being a legit #4-#5 seed. There's no telling what happens to guys like Dubinsky and Dawes and Callahan when they don't have to be the goto guys every night.

Everything that's wrong with this team points to adding 1 goal scorer. Gomez gets his 70 points and everyone loves him. Naslund is a steal with 30 goals. Dubinsky puts up a solid 50 point season. Calahan and Dawes chip in 35 between them and all is right with the world. Lundqvist gets more shutouts and looks more dominating because he knows he has some breathing room to do his thing.

All of the anger pointed at certain players is warranted to an extent, but the Rangers have a cast of contributing characters, not goto guys. Gomez and Drury are not goto guys and just because boat loads of money got thrown at them.

It's easy to want to hang Sather for not having the perfect team and being able to precisely assemble a team with hindsight that we all enjoy. (And, no, you don't get credit for saying 'I told you so' months ago, because in your eyes Sather does everything wrong anyway.) Maybe he has a plan and he's sticking to it? Sather has a chance in the next few days to show us that his puzzle is not complete.
Agree. Very good. Frame it and put it on the wall.

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02-27-2009, 09:41 AM
  #693
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I've seen that story happen too many times, Bluenote. The post games have been a bit similar. I do like what I'm seeing on the ice a bit better, to be honest, which likely is mostly a function of them believing they have a fresh start and partly just a different way of playing. And if they continue to work hard, they should begin to finish. Let's be honest here...while this team is not chock full of goal scorers, there's not reason why Naslund , Drury and Zherdev couldn't net 25 goals. There's not really a reason why Gomez shouldn't get 60 points; Dubi should be around 45-50 points (I had him at 35-40 to start the season, but have changed expectations due to his start, his playing time and with whom he's played); if Dawes was to improve (and he should've), he should be around 15-20 goals; Cally near 20; Redden with more than a couple. While this group is not a scoring machine, they are underachieving scoring-wise (reminds too much of the Ron Low team that was pushing to make the playoffs in February-March and stopped scoring, just when Dunham actually started to stop letting the softies go in).

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02-27-2009, 09:50 AM
  #694
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We lack an offensive leader. A Shanny, a Jagr, hell, I'd settle for the 1990 Bernie Nicholls at this point. Even the 86 team had Larouche

I agree, they should be putting up better numbers but it has to start with Drury, Gomez, & Naslund. The experience and leadership thats who every team looks too when they slump. Nicky Z isn't the man yet, the rest are too inexperienced as well.

I'm almost positive Sather adds a scorer in a few days, we'll have a better idea next week, but will it be too late?

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02-27-2009, 09:57 AM
  #695
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So instead of the usual 4 good chances we got under Renney, the 7 we got last night we're more enjoyable? I get what you're saying.
I won't presume to know what you watch hockey for. I won't presume to know what you find entertaining in a hockey game. I have been watching hockey for more than 20 years. I probably haven't missed a Rangers game in 15 years. This is bar none the most dull season I have ever had to endure. I have never been so disinterested. No effort. No intensity. No attack. No pressure. No aggression. No speed. No movement. There's more action in golf.

Last night they had speed. They had aggression. They had intensity. They had attack. They had pressure. They hit. They attacked the net. They had WAY more chances than they normally get. Paint it as a marginal difference if you want. But it was night and day. That's what I find entertaining.

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02-27-2009, 09:58 AM
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Nick Z isn't the man - and it's a bit unfortunate he really didn't grow at all this year, which means that perhaps he doesn't grow at all, or that playing with Dubi all season, a kid with 40 career NHL points playing with Jagr, may not have been the best situation for him and thus the added pressure of needing to carry a line offensively stiffened him up.

Who knows. The team seems to feel like they have more freedom out there and feel as though they're putting more pressure. Maybe the goals will start to come - all they need is a bit of time, a long break (and to get through the trading deadline this week, which surely isn't helping matters as every on the team is rumored to be on the move).

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02-27-2009, 10:02 AM
  #697
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That was embarrassing as hell. Someone has to score. Gomez at least played better, but jesus christ Drury DO SOMETHING. You're not being paid to take ****** wrist shots and slapshots from above the circles on the rush.

I like the guy but he looks absolutely lost out there right now

Zherdev also just isn't making things happen right now. Lots of other players have picked up their games, but no the ones who have the most goal scoring talent, which is unfortunate.

I'm glad they've played better these past two games, but you just can't dominate teams for most of the game like that and then lose because you can't score any goals.

Also, Lundqvist, soft goal, wtf.

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02-27-2009, 10:06 AM
  #698
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Im sorry but i dont think this has anything to do with lack of talent. Maybe the lack of talent is preventing them from being a very good championship potential team, but its not holding them back from scoring 2-4 goals a game.

The Rangers got more chances in the last two games then they did in the last 2 weeks under Renney.

If the quality chances are there, its just a matter of time before they go in.

The Rangers easily could have scored 5 goals last night. The had 20 scoring chances. 20.

That gave them a better chance to win than any recent game under Renney, so i dont see how you can refute that after just 2 games under Torts.

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02-27-2009, 10:07 AM
  #699
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I won't presume to know what you watch hockey for. I won't presume to know what you find entertaining in a hockey game. I have been watching hockey for more than 20 years. I probably haven't missed a Rangers game in 15 years. This is bar none the most dull season I have ever had to endure. I have never been so disinterested. No effort. No intensity. No attack. No pressure. No aggression. No speed. No movement. There's more action in golf.

Last night they had speed. They had aggression. They had intensity. They had attack. They had pressure. They hit. They attacked the net. They had WAY more chances than they normally get. Paint it as a marginal difference if you want. But it was night and day. That's what I find entertaining.
Cool. I agree the quality of the entertainment hasn't been the greatest this year, but compared to 98-04 I don't mind it, having a winning record no matter how those wins come are enjoyable to me. I'm never bored though so I can't relate to most peoples lack of excitement in their lives.

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Nick Z isn't the man - and it's a bit unfortunate he really didn't grow at all this year, which means that perhaps he doesn't grow at all, or that playing with Dubi all season, a kid with 40 career NHL points playing with Jagr, may not have been the best situation for him and thus the added pressure of needing to carry a line offensively stiffened him up.

Who knows. The team seems to feel like they have more freedom out there and feel as though they're putting more pressure. Maybe the goals will start to come - all they need is a bit of time, a long break (and to get through the trading deadline this week, which surely isn't helping matters as every on the team is rumored to be on the move).
I'm willing to give them a long time, I like Torts, if anyone was gonna replace Renney i'm glad its him. If his system works thats great, but I'm pretty sure it'll start to work when the roster changes happen.

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02-27-2009, 10:07 AM
  #700
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I agree that they have enough talent to do more than struggle at scoring more than one goal per game. But the question is why they can't do it even when they're getting good chances?

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