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Old
02-27-2009, 01:32 PM
  #301
GKJ
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He spent a year out of the league, but the Flyers were on record for wanting to sign him for last season. Ossi signed in Sweden before the Flyers were ready to make an offer.

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02-27-2009, 01:34 PM
  #302
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester
He got something for Kyle Calder.

KYLE CALDER

at the deadline.

I don't know what to tell you if you really think Vaananen had no value on the trade market. He's only making $1M...he can be an excellent 7th D at worse for almost any playoff team.
Quote:
Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514
The trade deadline is Wednesday. If someone really wanted these guys, they would have made a trade for them. Since there will be a lack of buyers on the trade market this year, the premium for players that are available goes up. To give away guys for nothing like this is inexcusable.
So what i gather from both of your opinions on this matter, is that you think Holmgren is such a huge idiot that he didn't even make a simple effort to trade either player for something.

I'm sorry but i just find it very hard to believe.

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Old
02-27-2009, 01:34 PM
  #303
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Opus View Post
You confident enough to suggest he made no calls?
Confident? Who knows. Do I buy an argument that you couldn't have worked out a deal with Vaananen to another playoff team for a draft pick? No, not at all.

Holmgren has proven time and again to just do stupid crap when it comes to managing the roster/salary cap. Baumgartner. Sbisa. Kukkonen (why did he not get sent to the Phantoms?). Downie (last year). Parent (last year).

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02-27-2009, 01:36 PM
  #304
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ideally, homer wanted to keep both as depth if we suffered injuries. he gambled and lost, but oh well, c'est la vie.

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02-27-2009, 01:36 PM
  #305
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Inebriator View Post
So what i gather from both of your opinions on this matter, is that you think Holmgren is such a huge idiot that he didn't even make a simple effort to trade either player for something.

I'm sorry but i just find it very hard to believe.
He let Kukkonen rot in the press box for how long...eating salary cap and being consistently waived?

He does a lot of crap that is hard to believe.

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02-27-2009, 01:36 PM
  #306
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Are we seriously crying over a 4th round pick here? I mean...seriously?

Should Holmgren get a gold star or something for getting a 3rd round pick in the Carle deal?

HfBoards, where overvaluing draft picks happens.

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02-27-2009, 01:36 PM
  #307
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Opus View Post
You confident enough to suggest he made no calls?
No, I am confident that if he would have played his cards right, he wouldn't have lost two depth guys for nothing. It is basically a proven law of the game that you need 8 defensemen to go deep in the playoffs. If they would have held out, they would have absolutely been able to make a trade, and I say that in absolute, unwavering, unequivocal confidence.

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02-27-2009, 01:38 PM
  #308
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Confident? Who knows. Do I buy an argument that you couldn't have worked out a deal with Vaananen to another playoff team for a draft pick? No, not at all.

Holmgren has proven time and again to just do stupid crap when it comes to managing the roster/salary cap. Baumgartner. Sbisa. Kukkonen (why did he not get sent to the Phantoms?). Downie (last year). Parent (last year).
Baumgartner was Clarke . . . Kukks did . . . but now that Kimmo has the black death he's staying so they have 6 D men. Downie was on IR and couldn't be sent down to the Phantoms because he missed the cutoff date. Parent was more of the same. Sbisa I tend to agree with, but if Steven's wasn't looking to play him and play him properly (4th line Winger?!!?!?!?) then Homer did the best thing which was send him back to Juniors.

You picked a bunch of real bad choices.

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Old
02-27-2009, 01:38 PM
  #309
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyHigh View Post
Are we seriously crying over a 4th round pick here? I mean...seriously?

Should Holmgren get a gold star or something for getting a 3rd round pick in the Carle deal?

HfBoards, where overvaluing draft picks happens.
Holy straw man argument batman!

The identification is consistent poor asset management.

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02-27-2009, 01:39 PM
  #310
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyHigh View Post
Are we seriously crying over a 4th round pick here? I mean...seriously?

Should Holmgren get a gold star or something for getting a 3rd round pick in the Carle deal?

HfBoards, where overvaluing draft picks happens.
It's not about overvaluing draft picks. It is about asset management, and depth. If the Flyers get hit with injuries again in the playoffs, and have to go thin on the blueline, they're going to wish they had Ossi. What is still undetermined is what happens at the deadline though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ToTheNet View Post
Baumgartner was Clarke . . . Kukks did . . . but now that Kimmo has the black death he's staying so they have 6 D men. Downie was on IR and couldn't be sent down to the Phantoms because he missed the cutoff date. Parent was more of the same. Sbisa I tend to agree with, but if Steven's wasn't looking to play him and play him properly (4th line Winger?!!?!?!?) then Homer did the best thing which was send him back to Juniors.

You picked a bunch of real bad choices.
Baumgartner was signed more at Holmgren's insistence, if you read between the lines when Clarke was removed as the GM resigned.

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02-27-2009, 01:41 PM
  #311
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ToTheNet View Post
Baumgartner was Clarke . . . Kukks did . . . but now that Kimmo has the black death he's staying so they have 6 D men. Downie was on IR and couldn't be sent down to the Phantoms because he missed the cutoff date. Parent was more of the same. Sbisa I tend to agree with, but if Steven's wasn't looking to play him and play him properly (4th line Winger?!!?!?!?) then Homer did the best thing which was send him back to Juniors.

You picked a bunch of real bad choices.
Holmgren for reasons that still remain beyond understanding called Baumgartner up and watched him get claimed by Dallas...and making us pay for him to play in Dallas.

Kukkonen has been with the Phantoms on conditioning, he is still on our salary cap.

Downie shouldn't have been up in that position once Stevens ceased playing him prior to the injury. The yo-yo of him getting called up and then playing a few minutes before getting sent down was beyond dumb.

Parent in the same situation...

Sbisa...about the dumbest thing I've ever witnessed.

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Old
02-27-2009, 01:43 PM
  #312
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post

Kukkonen has been with the Phantoms on conditioning, he is still on our salary cap.
Which is the most ironic thing about all of this. They're libel to keep him now out of necessity unless they actually do make a trade.

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02-27-2009, 01:43 PM
  #313
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Holmgren for reasons that still remain beyond understanding called Baumgartner up and watched him get claimed by Dallas...and making us pay for him to play in Dallas.

Kukkonen has been with the Phantoms on conditioning, he is still on our salary cap.

Downie shouldn't have been up in that position once Stevens ceased playing him prior to the injury. The yo-yo of him getting called up and then playing a few minutes before getting sent down was beyond dumb.

Parent in the same situation...

Sbisa...about the dumbest thing I've ever witnessed.
if that is the dumbest thing you've ever witnessed I suggest you get away from your computer a bit more. There are certainly thousands of dumber things done every hour.

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02-27-2009, 01:43 PM
  #314
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Really, guys? Holmgren could have sat on his ass and done nothing, but made moves to try and help this team. **** happens. We have been close to the cap before and we've made moves to help us.

Also, is it HOLMGREN's fault that Kuks sat in the press box, when other players should have been there? No. That belongs to John Stevens. All Holmgren can do is give Stevens the options, and then he puts them in.

This calling of HORRIFIC asset management is, quite frankly, HORRIFIC.

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02-27-2009, 01:45 PM
  #315
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Quote:
Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post
No, I am confident that if he would have played his cards right, he wouldn't have lost two depth guys for nothing. It is basically a proven law of the game that you need 8 defensemen to go deep in the playoffs. If they would have held out, they would have absolutely been able to make a trade, and I say that in absolute, unwavering, unequivocal confidence.
i disagree.... he probably didnt want to take back any contracts. As youve seen earlier with players clearing waivers and than being traded right after....no team was gonna offer a pick knowing holmgrem was gonna have to waive players to make room for briere... he may have been offered a player in return, but i doubt he was offered a pick.

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02-27-2009, 01:46 PM
  #316
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ToTheNet View Post
if that is the dumbest thing you've ever witnessed I suggest you get away from your computer a bit more. There are certainly thousands of dumber things done every hour.
Way to take the hyperbole in stride.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carle Winslow View Post
Really, guys? Holmgren could have sat on his ass and done nothing, but made moves to try and help this team. **** happens. We have been close to the cap before and we've made moves to help us.

Also, is it HOLMGREN's fault that Kuks sat in the press box, when other players should have been there? No. That belongs to John Stevens. All Holmgren can do is give Stevens the options, and then he puts them in.

This calling of HORRIFIC asset management is, quite frankly, HORRIFIC.
It's not Holmgren's fault that he's in the press box. It IS Holmgren's fault that a player our coach refuses to use remains on our salary cap.

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02-27-2009, 01:46 PM
  #317
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Inebriator View Post
So what i gather from both of your opinions on this matter, is that you think Holmgren is such a huge idiot that he didn't even make a simple effort to trade either player for something.

I'm sorry but i just find it very hard to believe.
Other GM's are not stupid. They know the cap situation the Flyers are in, what are the chances of making a deal for a player that the Flyers need to get rid of in order to get under the cap with Briere returning? No team is going to give up any asset knowing the Flyers are going to have put them on waivers eventually. If the Flyers were under the cap and in no danger of being over when Briere comes back Vaananen could have netted something if he was on the block.

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02-27-2009, 01:46 PM
  #318
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Holy straw man argument batman!

The identification is consistent poor asset management.
Jesus wept, wow.

- Vaananen, depth d-man, would have netted a 4th round at most.

- Metro, you seriously think teams would give up picks for Glen Metropolit?

- Kukkonen, has been through waivers multiple times without being claimed.

- Downie, turned into a strong puckmoving D.

- Parent, now flourishing with the big club.

Your basic premise is that we didn't trade Vaananen for a 4th round pick and it's all Holmgren's fault and our franchise will never be the same again because we didn't have that 4th round pick.

Fail.

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02-27-2009, 01:47 PM
  #319
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carle Winslow View Post
Really, guys? Holmgren could have sat on his ass and done nothing, but made moves to try and help this team. **** happens. We have been close to the cap before and we've made moves to help us.

Also, is it HOLMGREN's fault that Kuks sat in the press box, when other players should have been there? No. That belongs to John Stevens. All Holmgren can do is give Stevens the options, and then he puts them in.

This calling of HORRIFIC asset management is, quite frankly, HORRIFIC.
Actually, let's go into Kukkonen a bit more, because Stevens insistence to not play him at any cost, should raise the question of why he was even on the team to start with. Not afterwards and being waived and being the 8th defenseman after the Alberts trade. Kukkonen should not be on the team on the basis that the coach does not have real faith in him. I've asked more than once why there are players in the organization the team is unwilling to use.

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02-27-2009, 01:47 PM
  #320
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Are people really arguing that Homer is a bad GM? The guy took us from last place to the Eastern Conference Finals and now the Flyers are back to being perennial contenders. He's done really well with signings and trades. Until we miss the playoffs again I have faith in Homer. I'm pretty sure if he could have easily gotten these picks for Ossi and Metro he would have. There is a reason he is the GM and we are just some people arguing on an internet forum. The guy can do 10 great things, but once he does one thing that isn't as great as some would like, everyone wants to crucify him.

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02-27-2009, 01:48 PM
  #321
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Way to take the hyperbole in stride.



It's not Holmgren's fault that he's in the press box. It IS Holmgren's fault that a player our coach refuses to use remains on our salary cap.
Way to make it neccessary in the first place. You blow everything out of proportion. Every arguement you make has to turn into a life or death situation. Why don't you go get laid or something and quit blowing up at the first sign of conflict.

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02-27-2009, 01:48 PM
  #322
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FireStevensDotCom View Post
Other GM's are not stupid. They know the cap situation the Flyers are in, what are the chances of making a deal for a player that the Flyers need to get rid of in order to get under the cap with Briere returning? No team is going to give up any asset knowing the Flyers are going to have put them on waivers eventually. If the Flyers were under the cap and in no danger of being over when Briere comes back Vaananen could have netted something if he was on the block.
Excellent point.

That's like knowing that an external HD that's currently priced at $300 is going to go on sale the next day for $100 dollars and while other people might get to the sale before you, it may still be there.

Would you really pay the $300 or would you wait for the sale?

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02-27-2009, 01:49 PM
  #323
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Confident? Who knows. Do I buy an argument that you couldn't have worked out a deal with Vaananen to another playoff team for a draft pick? No, not at all.
So you're saying (in as many words) that you don't think he tried (even half assed, if you will) to get 'something' for either player. That's how I read that. I agree with a lot of what you say, but this one...there is no chance.

I'm pretty sure that he made it known both players were available.

Quote:
Holmgren has proven time and again to just do stupid crap when it comes to managing the roster/salary cap. Baumgartner. Sbisa. Kukkonen (why did he not get sent to the Phantoms?). Downie (last year). Parent (last year).
He's made some mistakes, yes. I'm not ready to take him before the firing squad though. At the end of the day, we have a nice young team...and things could be a lot worse in Flyers land.

Quote:
Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post
No, I am confident that if he would have played his cards right, he wouldn't have lost two depth guys for nothing. It is basically a proven law of the game that you need 8 defensemen to go deep in the playoffs. If they would have held out, they would have absolutely been able to make a trade, and I say that in absolute, unwavering, unequivocal confidence.
You know the NHL is monitoring the 'Briere' situation, right?

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02-27-2009, 01:50 PM
  #324
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Originally Posted by Jaydepps;18211549 [B
Are people really arguing that Homer is a bad GM?[/B] The guy took us from last place to the Eastern Conference Finals and now the Flyers are back to being perennial contenders. He's done really well with signings and trades. Until we miss the playoffs again I have faith in Homer. I'm pretty sure if he could have easily gotten these picks for Ossi and Metro he would have. There is a reason he is the GM and we are just some people arguing on an internet forum.
i think just one person is....

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02-27-2009, 01:50 PM
  #325
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyHigh View Post
Your basic premise is that we didn't trade Vaananen for a 4th round pick and it's all Holmgren's fault and our franchise will never be the same again because we didn't have that 4th round pick.

Fail.
It's not that THIS didn't happen. It's that it keeps happening.

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