HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Western Conference > Pacific Division > Vancouver Canucks
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Ossi Vaananen claimed by Canucks

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
02-28-2009, 01:25 PM
  #276
Inside McKenzie
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,231
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by KDizzle View Post
http://www.peterboroughpirates.net/i...lbum=25&pos=12

Inside McKenzie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-28-2009, 01:29 PM
  #277
Drop the Sopel
Feaster famine
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: calgary
Posts: 16,217
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by nuckfan in TO View Post
the Whitney/Kunitz trade is not comparable as both those players had years left on their contracts... not to mention the factors that surround that trade, including Anaheim rumoured to be on the verge of moving Pronger - which a "playoff bound" team wouldn't do.

I agree though, if you can get a return that makes sense, any player is up for grabs really. But chances of such a deal are slim when dealing with assets like Ohlund. He is a UFA after this season, which you can't ignore (unlike Whitney or Kunitz). The type of return you'd get for him on the trade market, considering the type of returns that you always get for rental players, doesn't make it worthwhile to deal Ohlund. That's why you never see playoff bound teams with rental players ever move them - their return value on the market never adds up to making it worthwhile to move them. Teams that give any value to such players are teams that want their impact in the current post-season, and aren't willing to give up their own impact players for the post-season. That's why you always see the exact same type of trades every time for rentals - a playoff bound team giving up futures for immediate impact players going to non-playoff bound teams.

If you can actually get the type of return that never is there for rentals - an impact player to fill another position basically - sure, you have to make it. I just don't think it's realistic at all. When I see suggestions to deal Ohlund come up, I refer back to all trades that such rentals brought back, and that to me makes no sense.
The Penguins ARE trying to make the playoffs...

Ryan Whitney- 24:33 TOI
Mattias Ohlund- 21:46 TOI

As you can see the Penguins traded away a dman with a larger current role on his club than Mattias Ohlund currently has in Vancouver.

If there`s a team out there with excellent depth up front with a big hole on defense and Gillis feels Ohlund`s contributions can be replaced, a deal could get done. Don`t forget the team inquiring about Ohlund could very well see him in their plans beyond this season. Driving up his value.

Ohlund being a free agent doesn`t preclude him from being involved in a hockey deal that improves both teams involved. I would be very surprised if Gillis isn`t at least entertaining such offers.

Drop the Sopel is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
02-28-2009, 01:34 PM
  #278
NFITO
hockeyinsanity*****
 
NFITO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Country: Canada
Posts: 27,904
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vancouver_2010 View Post
Its true that we need depth during our run, but its also true that we do not want to let players go without any return, like jovo. We could have get at least a first round from him that year.

I happen to like Vaananen because we get him for nothing, i dont understand why people are so against it
how is that true? are you Gillis?

you really think Gillis would rather make sure he gets something in return for Ohlund rather than have him for a playoff run and lose him to FA? what indication is there that Gillis even thinks this way?

I'm *assuming* that Gillis doesn't think this way for the same reason that all other GMs don't think this way.

NFITO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-28-2009, 01:37 PM
  #279
NFITO
hockeyinsanity*****
 
NFITO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Country: Canada
Posts: 27,904
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drop the Sopel View Post
The Penguins ARE trying to make the playoffs...

Ryan Whitney- 24:33 TOI
Mattias Ohlund- 21:46 TOI

As you can see the Penguins traded away a dman with a larger current role on his club than Mattias Ohlund currently has in Vancouver.

If there`s a team out there with excellent depth up front with a big hole on defense and Gillis feels Ohlund`s contributions can be replaced, a deal could get done. Don`t forget the team inquiring about Ohlund could very well see him in their plans beyond this season. Driving up his value.

Ohlund being a free agent doesn`t preclude him from being involved in a hockey deal that improves both teams involved. I would be very surprised if Gillis isn`t at least entertaining such offers.
Like I said before, if there's a deal out there that improves the club's changes this season - that improves their current roster - its' a different story.

What I completely disagree with is thinking like this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vancouver_2010 View Post
Its true that we need depth during our run, but its also true that we do not want to let players go without any return, like jovo. We could have get at least a first round from him that year.
I don't see "hockey deals" happen around players like Ohlund... guys on the last year of their deals basically. Again this is different than the Whitney trade was.

But like I said, if there really is a deal out there where you can flip Ohlund to improve the club's chances in the playoffs this year, you have to consider it. I don't however agree with comments like above - where you have to get "something for him" rather than lose him to FA. Playoff teams just don't work like that.

NFITO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-28-2009, 01:50 PM
  #280
Drop the Sopel
Feaster famine
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: calgary
Posts: 16,217
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by nuckfan in TO View Post
Like I said before, if there's a deal out there that improves the club's changes this season - that improves their current roster - its' a different story.

What I completely disagree with is thinking like this:



I don't see "hockey deals" happen around players like Ohlund... guys on the last year of their deals basically. Again this is different than the Whitney trade was.

But like I said, if there really is a deal out there where you can flip Ohlund to improve the club's chances in the playoffs this year, you have to consider it. I don't however agree with comments like above - where you have to get "something for him" rather than lose him to FA. Playoff teams just don't work like that.
You`re saying there`s no way Jay Bouwmeester gets moved. Florida and Vancouver have identical records, Bouwmeester is an UFA, yet Martin has openly stated Bouwmeester is available in the right deal. Again, this flies in the face of your point that pending free agents NEVER get dealt by teams looking to the postseason.

The Penguins dealt a 25:00 a night defenseman for a top 6 forward. You`re whole argument is predicated on the fact that teams don`t deal players making significant contributions during a pending postseason push. This is patently false.

Yes, in all likelihood the Canucks will not trade Mattias Ohlund for 1st rd picks and non roster players. Saying they will not trade Ohlund in any circumstance is flat out wrong and someting you have stated many, many times. Just pointing out a few instances where teams do in fact move key players to address other areas of weakness on their club.

Drop the Sopel is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
02-28-2009, 01:59 PM
  #281
NFITO
hockeyinsanity*****
 
NFITO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Country: Canada
Posts: 27,904
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drop the Sopel View Post
You`re saying there`s no way Jay Bouwmeester gets moved. Florida and Vancouver have identical records, Bouwmeester is an UFA, yet Martin has openly stated Bouwmeester is available in the right deal. Again, this flies in the face of your point that pending free agents NEVER get dealt by teams looking to the postseason.

The Penguins dealt a 25:00 a night defenseman for a top 6 forward. You`re whole argument is predicated on the fact that teams don`t deal players making significant contributions during a pending postseason push. This is patently false.

Yes, in all likelihood the Canucks will not trade Mattias Ohlund for 1st rd picks and non roster players. Saying they will not trade Ohlund in any circumstance is flat out wrong and someting you have stated many, many times. Just pointing out a few instances where teams do in fact move key players to address other areas of weakness on their club.
sorry, maybe I'll make my point clearer, since I've said as much already:


Playoff teams don't trade impact players at the deadline that are on the last year of their deals just so they get something back for them!

Like I've said MANY MANY times, if there's a hockey deal out there that makes your current team better, it makes sense to look at it... and in such a deal Ohlund may well get moved. However, a) I don't think that it's likely to expect such a deal, and more importantly b) you don't trade Ohlund in a deal for future returns just so you get something for an impending UFA that may not re-sign.

Can JBo get dealt? sure... will he get moved in a deal which just brings back draft picks and future returns for the Panthers? not likely since they are in a playoff race.

Similarly Ohlund could get moved - but only if it's a deal that improves the current canucks chances in the upcoming playoffs. I personally don't think such a deal is available, but that's the only type of deal that you'd even consider moving him in.

Does Ohlund get moved for draft picks, prospects or players that will downgrade the current lineup by making that trade? I don't believe that there's any chance he's involved in such a trade!

NFITO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-28-2009, 02:14 PM
  #282
Drop the Sopel
Feaster famine
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: calgary
Posts: 16,217
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by nuckfan in TO View Post
sorry, maybe I'll make my point clearer, since I've said as much already:


Playoff teams don't trade impact players at the deadline that are on the last year of their deals just so they get something back for them!

Like I've said MANY MANY times, if there's a hockey deal out there that makes your current team better, it makes sense to look at it... and in such a deal Ohlund may well get moved. However, a) I don't think that it's likely to expect such a deal, and more importantly b) you don't trade Ohlund in a deal for future returns just so you get something for an impending UFA that may not re-sign.

Can JBo get dealt? sure... will he get moved in a deal which just brings back draft picks and future returns for the Panthers? not likely since they are in a playoff race.

Similarly Ohlund could get moved - but only if it's a deal that improves the current canucks chances in the upcoming playoffs. I personally don't think such a deal is available, but that's the only type of deal that you'd even consider moving him in.

Does Ohlund get moved for draft picks, prospects or players that will downgrade the current lineup by making that trade? I don't believe that there's any chance he's involved in such a trade!
I see you've softened your stance on pending UFA's being dealt.

I never disagreed with your point about dealing a quality free agent for futures but just pointing out that throwing Ohlund's name around in trade talks is not out of the question. As you can see with Jacques Martin's recent comments regarding Jay Bouwmeester the possibility is certainly there. If Florida is entertaining the thought of moving their franchise player in fear of seeing him walk this summer, Ohlund shouldn't be immune to such a scenario.

Drop the Sopel is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
02-28-2009, 02:17 PM
  #283
ahmon
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 6,365
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by nuckfan in TO View Post
sorry, maybe I'll make my point clearer, since I've said as much already:


Playoff teams don't trade impact players at the deadline that are on the last year of their deals just so they get something back for them!

Like I've said MANY MANY times, if there's a hockey deal out there that makes your current team better, it makes sense to look at it... and in such a deal Ohlund may well get moved. However, a) I don't think that it's likely to expect such a deal, and more importantly b) you don't trade Ohlund in a deal for future returns just so you get something for an impending UFA that may not re-sign.

Can JBo get dealt? sure... will he get moved in a deal which just brings back draft picks and future returns for the Panthers? not likely since they are in a playoff race.

Similarly Ohlund could get moved - but only if it's a deal that improves the current canucks chances in the upcoming playoffs. I personally don't think such a deal is available, but that's the only type of deal that you'd even consider moving him in.

Does Ohlund get moved for draft picks, prospects or players that will downgrade the current lineup by making that trade? I don't believe that there's any chance he's involved in such a trade!

Well if hes moved for picks and prospects, then it doesn't mean we can't use those assets to get another player to make our current team better.

Firstly, calling ohlund an impact player is pushing it, as its getting obvious hes now more of a 2nd pairing #4 dman. Posters on this board have consistently ovverated his abilities, remember you were saying how you don't want to discuss hockey with me because i thought that dan boyle was more valuable than mattias ohlund ( like a year ago or so). I bet you wouldn't trade ohlund for boyle right?


Secondly, after watching almost 20 years of hockey, there really isn't much "never" or impossibles in hockey. Why can't a playoff team trade a veteran that will become a ufa for propspects?

You can say its highly unlikely, but you can't say 'NEVER'.

New Jersey fired Robinson weeks before the playoffs, and they were a contending team with a very good record. Anything is possible.

ahmon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-28-2009, 02:37 PM
  #284
Barney Gumble
Registered User
 
Barney Gumble's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 21,204
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ahmon View Post
remember you were saying how you don't want to discuss hockey with me because i thought that dan boyle was more valuable than mattias ohlund ( like a year ago or so). I bet you wouldn't trade ohlund for boyle right?
Dislike Boyle's contract. Sooner that kind of money to Jaybo.


Last edited by Barney Gumble: 02-28-2009 at 02:51 PM.
Barney Gumble is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-28-2009, 04:15 PM
  #285
Scott Hall
The Bad Guy
 
Scott Hall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 368
vCash: 500
Again, is there a player out there that can be had for LESS assets and bring MORE than what Ohlund already brings?

Ohlund costs us nothing to keep, and will act as a "rental" player... and is probably the best rental player that we can have right now.

Scott Hall is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-28-2009, 05:32 PM
  #286
orcatown
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 7,798
vCash: 500
Late comment so it's probably already been stated somewhere but Vaananen can be very effective when matched with a good defenseman. Not the kind of player you put into a lead role but a good complementary player. He was good with Kimmonen but not so much when he was put with other defensive defenseman. Same thing in Colorado.

Might be best with someone like Bieksa who can take the lead and be supported by Vaananen. Putting him with someone like Salo or Ohlund is not a good option IMO.

Might well be that Philly tried to downgrade Vaananen to get him thru waivers. Seemed to be having a good season with the Flyers until they started cutting back on his role about a month ago.

orcatown is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-28-2009, 06:19 PM
  #287
Bobby Lou
Moustache Power
 
Bobby Lou's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: The Crease
Country: Canada
Posts: 15,394
vCash: 894
Nice, Vaananen is wearing #5 - next generation Bryan Allen.

We have a fairly big team at this point.

Bobby Lou is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-28-2009, 06:45 PM
  #288
Bullet Tooth Tony
Registered User
 
Bullet Tooth Tony's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 423
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by orcatown View Post
Might well be that Philly tried to downgrade Vaananen to get him thru waivers. Seemed to be having a good season with the Flyers until they started cutting back on his role about a month ago.
Interesting logic... Not sure I buy it... By all accounts, and according to Flyers fans, it seems he somehow landed himself in the doghouse of John Stevens, and never really got a chance to work his way out. I think it was the numbers game that squeezed him out, pure and simple, and not any kind of strange, backhanded attempt of benching him to lower his value so they could sneak him down to the farm, only to call him up when the roster limit and cap are thrown out the window... sounds pretty complicated to me

Bullet Tooth Tony is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-28-2009, 06:56 PM
  #289
Shareefruck
Registered User
 
Shareefruck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Vancouver, BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 17,333
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by HydroFluoric View Post
Very key. I will reserve all judgment until he plays a game for us.
I don't know, I'd give the people in this forum more credit than THAT. It doesn't exactly take a genius to judge speed, and there isn't much of a reason to lie about that. I can't imagine he'd be much slower than O'Brien.

Shareefruck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-28-2009, 07:50 PM
  #290
Drop the Sopel
Feaster famine
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: calgary
Posts: 16,217
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by orcatown View Post
Late comment so it's probably already been stated somewhere but Vaananen can be very effective when matched with a good defenseman. Not the kind of player you put into a lead role but a good complementary player. He was good with Kimmonen but not so much when he was put with other defensive defenseman. Same thing in Colorado.

Might be best with someone like Bieksa who can take the lead and be supported by Vaananen. Putting him with someone like Salo or Ohlund is not a good option IMO.

Might well be that Philly tried to downgrade Vaananen to get him thru waivers. Seemed to be having a good season with the Flyers until they started cutting back on his role about a month ago.
O'Brien has faired pretty well with Bieksa but I think Vaananen is better suited to play with Bieksa stylistically. Like Mitchell, Vaananen plays a safe game that would allow Bieksa to wander as he so often does. IMO O'Brien and Bieksa together may be a little too volatile heading into the playoffs where one mistake could be costly. I wouldn't be shocked to see O'Brien dealt to free up a roster spot for Vaananen. Ossi is good enough to be a regular skater and O'Brien's penchance for penalties could be another cause for concern heading into the postseason. Our penalty killing obviously doesn't help Shane's case for sticking around.

Drop the Sopel is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
02-28-2009, 07:55 PM
  #291
windflare
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Vancouver, B.C.
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,274
vCash: 500
Edler and O'Brien aren't too bad, but O'Brien is a bit too slow for me to like that pairing too much. Bieksa/Ohlund and Salo/Mitchell are fine as well - would be interesting to see Bieksa/Vaananen.

windflare is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-28-2009, 08:03 PM
  #292
Bobby Lou
Moustache Power
 
Bobby Lou's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: The Crease
Country: Canada
Posts: 15,394
vCash: 894
Vaananen would look good alongside most of our defenseman in my opinion. I would be hesitant to pair him with O'Brien or Davison, and I'd most likely keep his ice-time with Mitchell limited to short-handed situations, but he'd look great alongside Edler, Bieksa, Salo, or Ohlund.

Bobby Lou is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-28-2009, 10:10 PM
  #293
pitseleh
Registered User
 
pitseleh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Vancouver
Country: Canada
Posts: 17,645
vCash: 500
Some quotes from the Province:

Quote:
"When he was with us in Phoenix, he was a good, young, reliable defenceman," said Bowness, who spent five seasons as an assistant for the Coyotes and also served as their interim head coach in 2003-04. "When we played against the Canucks, we put him out against (Bertuzzi) because he was big and fast and strong enough for that battle.

"I knew we discussed bringing him in (to Vancouver) the summer of '07 and it didn't work out. I haven't seen him play for a couple of years. I'm hoping he's the same guy I remember when I had him."

That's probably a stretch. A second-round pick in 1998, Vaananen was a key shut-down type on a young Phoenix defence, but he's been a vagabond since being dealt to Colorado at the 2004 deadline - two seasons with the Avalanche, a year in the Swedish Elite League and less than a year in Philadelphia after they signed him to a one-year, $1 million deal.

...

"I'm not a guy who puts up big numbers," said Vaananen, who played one season in Phoenix with Canucks forward Darcy Hordichuk and has teamed up with Sami Salo for several international tournaments including the 2002 Olympics. "I'm more stay at home, I try to make some hits once in a while and play a sound defensive game.

"You don't really expect it (being waived), but once it happens you try to look forward and move on. I'm very excited. I've played against these guys a lot and they're always tough games and I'm glad to be on the other side."
http://www.faceoff.com/hockey/teams/...%3Fid%3D894638

pitseleh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-01-2009, 01:02 AM
  #294
monster_bertuzzi
registered user
 
monster_bertuzzi's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Vancouver
Country: Canada
Posts: 30,332
vCash: 500
The best thing about this is it gives us 8 NHL top 6 calibre defenceman, and pushes Nycholat down to #9, who can play also (not well, mind you) if need be with injuries.

monster_bertuzzi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-01-2009, 02:40 AM
  #295
windflare
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Vancouver, B.C.
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,274
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by pitseleh View Post
For some reason, things do seem to be looking up for our franchise since this year. These luck of the draw things keep falling to us.

windflare is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-01-2009, 04:28 AM
  #296
thefifthsedin*
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: here and there
Country: Sweden
Posts: 1,484
vCash: 500
ossi vaananens real name is ossi väänänen ... it's all about the ä ... and it is pronounced like eeh

thefifthsedin* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-01-2009, 01:19 PM
  #297
Barney Gumble
Registered User
 
Barney Gumble's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 21,204
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by monster_bertuzzi View Post
The best thing about this is it gives us 8 NHL top 6 calibre defenceman, and pushes Nycholat down to #9, who can play also (not well, mind you) if need be with injuries.
Technically, based on ability, Nycholat would be #9 - but in terms of team needs, IMHO - he's #8. If say, Salo goes does (big surprise), Nycholat would be the better defenseman to replace him in the lineup than Davison. Davison seems the redundant (defensive) defenseman.

Barney Gumble is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-01-2009, 01:39 PM
  #298
Velociraptor
Registered User
 
Velociraptor's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Maritimes
Country: Canada
Posts: 10,721
vCash: 500
So, Ossi isn't playing tonight? I used the lines for the GDT off canucks.com and Friday's D pairings were there.

Velociraptor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-01-2009, 01:43 PM
  #299
kmad
Riot Survivor
 
kmad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Vancouver
Country: Canada
Posts: 32,799
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Barney Gumble View Post
Technically, based on ability, Nycholat would be #9 - but in terms of team needs, IMHO - he's #8. If say, Salo goes does (big surprise), Nycholat would be the better defenseman to replace him in the lineup than Davison. Davison seems the redundant (defensive) defenseman.
I'd disagree. I think you have to rank the defensemen depth based on competence and not on the type of role they'd be assuming. Davison is simply better at hockey.

I don't think Nycholat plays another game for Vancouver at this point.

kmad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-01-2009, 01:51 PM
  #300
Flinch*
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,652
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bullet Tooth Tony View Post
Interesting logic... Not sure I buy it... By all accounts, and according to Flyers fans, it seems he somehow landed himself in the doghouse of John Stevens, and never really got a chance to work his way out. I think it was the numbers game that squeezed him out, pure and simple, and not any kind of strange, backhanded attempt of benching him to lower his value so they could sneak him down to the farm, only to call him up when the roster limit and cap are thrown out the window... sounds pretty complicated to me
You a Canucks fan? If so, you need to post more in this forum. You're usually reasonable and have solid insight on things.

Flinch* is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:04 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2015 All Rights Reserved.