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Old
03-12-2004, 05:10 PM
  #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThisYearsModel
Nope. Moore did not do anything wrong. OTOH, perhaps Queen Marcus might be thinking "damn, if only I would have kept my head up, none of this would have happened."

Bertuzzi got off lucky, and Burke and Crawford are low-class managers. They confirm this every time they open their mouths. Burke's comments about Moore skating in 4-6 weeks are an indication that is not only clueless and classless, but he would not make a good doctor. No one returns to a contact sport any sooner than 6 months following a cervical fracture, if at all. Burke is saying that Moore is not hurt as badly as everyone thinks. I would like to see his physician's license.
What on earth would possess you to insult one of the classiest players in the game? This shows YOUR low class.

Please give proof before you call Crawford low class. Is it for his post game rant? I believe any coach would've been royally ticked off about that happening to their best player. Oh yeah, perhaps you think Hitchcock is low class too for saying that Havlat should be "fed his lunch"? Burke said Moore should be skating(not playing) in 4-6 weeks, but then said "I hope he is skating in 4 weeks". Returning to play and skating are two different things.

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03-12-2004, 05:12 PM
  #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ol' Dirty Chinaman
'Queen Marcus' ?

Who's the queen who wouldn't answer the bell with anybody except a player smaller than him ?

He fought the fight. That was more than shpuld have been required as he did nothing wrong in the forst place. Remember, you don't get into Harvard if you are stupid. Which college did Bertuzzi, May and Crawford go to?

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03-12-2004, 05:17 PM
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ehc73
What on earth would possess you to insult one of the classiest players in the game? This shows YOUR low class.

Please give proof before you call Crawford low class. Is it for his post game rant? I believe any coach would've been royally ticked off about that happening to their best player. Oh yeah, perhaps you think Hitchcock is low class too for saying that Havlat should be "fed his lunch"? Burke said Moore should be skating(not playing) in 4-6 weeks, but then said "I hope he is skating in 4 weeks". Returning to play and skating are two different things.
Crawford started the buildup for this after the Feb. 16th game. When the brave gladiators from Vancouver came back to Denver a week later, no one did anything. Why was that? Afraid to administer their "frontier justice" in Colorado's rink? All talk? So they wait to get home and pick a fight in the first period, their goalie is a sieve and they get blown out. THEN they start all of this nonsense again? Any mention of the word CLASS associated with the Canucks is bogus. Crawfords smirk while Moore laid motionless on the ice with a broken neck said it all. Too bad one of his key players, one that the Canucks need to excel in the playoffs, is also dumb as a stump.

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03-12-2004, 05:17 PM
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ol' Dirty Chinaman
Wow, just ....

Wow.

In that same vein: **** Moore. That chicken "innocent" polyanna got what he deserved.
My point is that you can't call what Bertuzzi did a "mistake".

Moore "deserved" it? Then what does Bertuzzi deserve? To be assaulted in the parking lot by 6 guys with baseball bats? Under your "logic" he deserves it as well.

I'm not even going to try and discuss this any more. Certain Canuck poster (not all of them, but it's the ignorant minority that gets noticed) would defend Bertuzzi if he beat the Pope senseless.

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03-12-2004, 05:18 PM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThisYearsModel
He fought the fight. That was more than shpuld have been required as he did nothing wrong in the forst place. Remember, you don't get into Harvard if you are stupid. Which college did Bertuzzi, May and Crawford go to?
shpuld ! forst !

Elbow -> Head = Wrong.

If Elbow -> Head = Nothing Wrong, then

Punch -> Side of the Head = Nothing Wrong.

I love your logic.

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03-12-2004, 05:19 PM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThisYearsModel
Nope. Moore did not do anything wrong. OTOH, perhaps Queen Marcus might be thinking "damn, if only I would have kept my head up, none of this would have happened."
What the hell are you talking about? If there has been anyone that has been classy through all this, it has been Markus Näslund.

You are as bad as the delusional Canucks fans. Your delusions come from being an Avs homer instead.

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03-12-2004, 05:20 PM
  #57
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That thug Matt Johnson should not be in the league, either. I see he is out for another 5 game stick swinging suspension. Guys like him and Bertuzzi should be banned from the league.

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Old
03-12-2004, 05:25 PM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThisYearsModel
He fought the fight. That was more than shpuld have been required as he did nothing wrong in the forst place. Remember, you don't get into Harvard if you are stupid. Which college did Bertuzzi, May and Crawford go to?
What does college have to do with this? You're just throwing insults for the sake of throwing insults, and contributing nothing worthwhile to this thread.

Quote:
Crawford started the buildup for this after the Feb. 16th game. When the brave gladiators from Vancouver came back to Denver a week later, no one did anything. Why was that? Afraid to administer their "frontier justice" in Colorado's rink? All talk? So they wait to get home and pick a fight in the first period, their goalie is a sieve and they get blown out. THEN they start all of this nonsense again? Any mention of the word CLASS associated with the Canucks is bogus. Crawfords smirk while Moore laid motionless on the ice with a broken neck said it all. Too bad one of his key players, one that the Canucks need to excel in the playoffs, is also dumb as a stump.
Do you watch hockey? When it's a close game, no one on any team does anything to jeopardize chances of winning the game. It has nothing to do with being afraid. When it is a blowout, ANY blowout, there is a chance for fights(see Trottier's handling when the Rangers got blown out...he sent out McCarthy and Barnaby). I suppose you think every other team in the league is positively angelic. Because nothing like this has ever happened before, so therefore only the Canucks are the classless dogs of the NHL and every other team has nothing wrong with them, so the Canucks should be banned.

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Old
03-12-2004, 05:26 PM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ol' Dirty Chinaman
shpuld ! forst !

Elbow -> Head = Wrong.

If Elbow -> Head = Nothing Wrong, then

Punch -> Side of the Head = Nothing Wrong.

I love your logic.
Is there a problem with your VCR? Moore never hit him with an elbow. The LEAGUE reviewed it and said as much. Or, does the league discriminate against your poor, unfortunate Canucks? Marcus Naslund is a great player who had his head down. No different than any of the Scott Stevens shots. All legal according to the rules.

Big Bad Bert attacks the kid from behind? What a man! I sure want my kids to emulate him!

Perhaps if players with IQ's below 50 would be banned from the NHL, we would not have to worry about guys like Bertuzzi, Johnson and May.

Bertuzzi had better prepare himself to meet Moose, Bull and Bubba in the big house. If they attack him from behind like he did Moore, he'll have a bad case of hemmorhoids, at least.

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Old
03-12-2004, 05:26 PM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThisYearsModel
Bertuzzi got off lucky, and Burke and Crawford are low-class managers. They confirm this every time they open their mouths. Burke's comments about Moore skating in 4-6 weeks are an indication that is not only clueless and classless, but he would not make a good doctor. No one returns to a contact sport any sooner than 6 months following a cervical fracture, if at all. Burke is saying that Moore is not hurt as badly as everyone thinks. I would like to see his physician's license.
So if you don't mind me asking, do you have a license to practice medicine, and if you do not (most likely case) why should what you have stated have more weight than what has been reported by different media sources, not only in Vancouver but also in Calgary, as can be seen in the Wednesday paper where it stated that the average time for healing is 5-12 weeks. Now since then we have discovered that there is in fact no nerve dammage, which would be a plus, and thus it is reasonable to assume that the 5-12 weeks could in fact be 4-6 weeks until he could skate again. So your uneducated, uninformed opinion should hold more weight than that of a medical doctor? If anything seems odd about this please tell me, for apparently your MD status, should be able to clarify everything.

Good-day sir.

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Old
03-12-2004, 05:28 PM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ehc73
What does college have to do with this? You're just throwing insults for the sake of throwing insults, and contributing nothing worthwhile to this thread.



Do you watch hockey? When it's a close game, no one on any team does anything to jeopardize chances of winning the game. It has nothing to do with being afraid. When it is a blowout, ANY blowout, there is a chance for fights(see Trottier's handling when the Rangers got blown out...he sent out McCarthy and Barnaby). I suppose you think every other team in the league is positively angelic. Because nothing like this has ever happened before, so therefore only the Canucks are the classless dogs of the NHL and every other team has nothing wrong with them, so the Canucks should be banned.
Trottier got suspended for 2 games for that. Crawford should have had 10 games and got nothing. You guys would defend Ted Bundy if he wore the orca sweater.

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03-12-2004, 05:34 PM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxwell Edison
So if you don't mind me asking, do you have a license to practice medicine, and if you do not (most likely case) why should what you have stated have more weight than what has been reported by different media sources, not only in Vancouver but also in Calgary, as can be seen in the Wednesday paper where it stated that the average time for healing is 5-12 weeks. Now since then we have discovered that there is in fact no nerve dammage, which would be a plus, and thus it is reasonable to assume that the 5-12 weeks could in fact be 4-6 weeks until he could skate again. So your uneducated, uninformed opinion should hold more weight than that of a medical doctor? If anything seems odd about this please tell me, for apparently your MD status, should be able to clarify everything.

Good-day sir.
In fact, I am a medical professional. Secondly, what difference does it make to Brian Burke? If Moore comes back in 4 days or 4 years, it has zero affect on the true issue, ehich is a cowardly assault that he suffered from Bertuzzi. If Bertuzzi pulled that stunt anywhere but on a hockey rink, he woud have been arrested immediately. His low-class act has damaged the game. Attempts to minimize it by Vancouver management is foolish and rings hollow to mose evryone who is not an unconditional Bertuzzi or Canuck fan. Don't take it from me, take it from Bill Clement, Terry Jones, etc.

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03-12-2004, 05:36 PM
  #63
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Wasn't Terry Jones a Python?

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Old
03-12-2004, 05:36 PM
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarioinDenver
Considering Bertuzzi's actions could have generated results that were much worse, NO.

Not that I think there is any chance of Bertuzzi being reinstated anytime sooner, this logic just doesn't apply.

If you went in with that mentality, then I suppose Doug Weight should have been suspended much longer when he cross checked Sedin to the face. He ran the risk of taking out an eye, same goes with Havlat. Obviously they don't base suspensions on "what could have happened."

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03-12-2004, 05:39 PM
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThisYearsModel
Trottier got suspended for 2 games for that. Crawford should have had 10 games and got nothing. You guys would defend Ted Bundy if he wore the orca sweater.
I was defending the Canuck organization. You were calling them classless and generalizing a whole from bad acts from a few individuals. And you completely missed my point as to why fighting didn't happen in the first game and did in the second. I think Crawford should've gotten fined after his outburst after the game, much like I thought Hitchcock should've been fined for his "feed Havlat his lunch" speech. Brad May should've been fined for his "bounty" speech, no matter how much in jest, but the CBA only allows $1000 fines for players(I think).

Your insults such as Moore attending a better college than Bertuzzi, May or Crawford have nothing to do with the conversation(OT: Burke got his law degree from Harvard). You just threw that in there for some reason.

If you can offer up your medical degree, I'm sure you can have credit when you say Burke is wrong about Moore being able to skate in 4 weeks. And I stress again that skating is not playing hockey. Not to mention the newspapers have also cited doctors saying Moore should be recovered in 5-12 weeks, much less than the 6 months you claim it takes for recovery from such an injury. Please, give your sources as to where you got this information from.

EDIT: I see you have stated you are a medical professional. May I ask in what field? Perhaps if your specialty is in the spinal region, you can enlighten the rest of us on what it takes to recover from such an injury.


Last edited by ehc73: 03-12-2004 at 05:43 PM.
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Old
03-12-2004, 05:42 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by ehc73
Not to mention the newspapers have also cited doctors saying Moore should be recovered in 5-12 weeks, much less than the 6 months you claim it takes for recovery from such an injury. Please, give your sources as to where you got this information from.
He practices medecine out of his garage, didn't you know?

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03-12-2004, 05:54 PM
  #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThisYearsModel
In fact, I am a medical professional. Secondly, what difference does it make to Brian Burke? If Moore comes back in 4 days or 4 years, it has zero affect on the true issue, ehich is a cowardly assault that he suffered from Bertuzzi. If Bertuzzi pulled that stunt anywhere but on a hockey rink, he woud have been arrested immediately. His low-class act has damaged the game. Attempts to minimize it by Vancouver management is foolish and rings hollow to mose evryone who is not an unconditional Bertuzzi or Canuck fan. Don't take it from me, take it from Bill Clement, Terry Jones, etc.
In fact that is the point... the length of the suspension is based on the INJURY... and your last sentence says it all... bow down to Clement and Jones why dont ya? hahhahaha

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03-12-2004, 05:56 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by ThisYearsModel
Is there a problem with your VCR? Moore never hit him with an elbow. The LEAGUE reviewed it and said as much. Or, does the league discriminate against your poor, unfortunate Canucks? Marcus Naslund is a great player who had his head down. No different than any of the Scott Stevens shots. All legal according to the rules.
Actually no, it was a bona-fide textbook interference play.

Naslund did not have possession of the puck. You cannot hit somebody who does not have posession of the puck. And even if he did have the puck, you cannot hit somebody in the head with your elbow.

Stevens hits guys in the open ice who are carrying the puck with their head down, big difference.

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03-12-2004, 06:51 PM
  #69
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This thread is on double-secret probation watch. Watch the personal insults or the thread gets closed.

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Old
03-12-2004, 06:55 PM
  #70
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Originally Posted by Beukeboom Fan
Only Canucks fans are saying that the Naslund hit was extremely dirty.

I guess that the Charles Manson or John Wayne Gacy just made a mistake as well. Like Bert said "I didn't mean to hurt you".
Not true.

And you are disgracing the victims of those murderers. Some Avs fans were calling Bertuzzi 'Osama'. Id' like to know what one of his victims family thinks about such a comparrison. I bet they would be insensed that a mass murderer can be compared in any way to this incident. Lets keep it real.

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03-12-2004, 06:56 PM
  #71
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Originally Posted by DarioinDenver
I am considering the whole picture. If you shoot someone and it misses their spine by inches and they are up and walking a few weeks later it does not deminish the seriousness of the assault in question, nor the potential for a much worse result. Besides, the whole prediction of recovery is total conjecture not supported by any public statements by Moore's physicians, nor public press releases from the Avalanche nor Moore family.
Its not conjecture if you know what the stated injuries are, and what is the general prgonosis for them would be. Im educated in sports injuries and think I can give such an opinion, but each case if individual of course.

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03-12-2004, 07:04 PM
  #72
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Originally Posted by ThisYearsModel
In fact, I am a medical professional.
then you would know each case is individual, and Burke may be privy to information we dont have. Also the fracture being to the transverse processes makes return to sport much sooner, in the order of months, than a fractured verterbral body would be. Of couse, you know that allready. the fractures have been characterised as small and that they will heal fine, by the doctors at the hospital according to media reports today on radio.

debating Moore's condition is dumb.

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03-12-2004, 07:05 PM
  #73
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Originally Posted by gb701
We will have to agree to disagree.

1. I am a hockey player, a coach and a fan. I have sons playing Junior hockey, one with potential to play for money somewhere. I had season tickets from 1984-1989, and since then have gradually reduced the number of games I go to because the quality of the hockey has gone steadily down, and because I have other things to do. I have been in and around the game all my life, and am friends with a number of owners behinds three NHL teams, and quite a few retired and still active players. Some of them were "enforcer" types when they played, and they disagree with me but not in the terms that you raise. I am not a bleeding heart activist, nor am I a soccer mom. I am not "whining".

2. I also fully understand that there are fans who genuinely like and get excited out of watching a couple of semi-skilled gorillas slide around the ice and try to whale on each other. The only leagues in the WORLD who allow this are the NHL, the semi-pros and the CHA and other Junior leagues in Canada. The question is whether it is necessary that this continues to be the case.

3. You are right - you said your personal views. I respect that - but you then go on to presume to tell everyone what "real" hockey fans want. Sorry - first of all, I don't think you have any idea what "real" hockey fans want, and second, I am not sure that the fans are the issue here. This whole issue crosses over to what is legal, and what is good business, and what is safe, and what is responsible. As another enlightened poster said, he sees the game as being like "Gladiator" with some lions and bears on the ice, and the more blood the better. He is a fan - fortunately nobody cares what he likes.

4. The people who enjoyed the crap in the Ottawa/Philly game are the same people who think Bert was justified in trying to take Moore out of the game - and fortunately, the League, most owners and managers, and everyone else with authority disagrees.

Like I have said elsewhere, the real question that should be debated is what rules will work if enforced properly, and how to enforce them without destroying the game entirely. I think there are some obvious steps that can be taken - getting rid of the instigator rule and encouraging line brawls are not among them.

I can respect that you have your own personal views, but it seems to me that you're far more guilty of assuming that me in assuming that your views are that of the 'true' hockey fan.

The fact of the matter is that the majority of NHL fans love the fighting.

A fight breaks out and what happens? The crowd hits its feet screaming.

When a fight breaks out and the people in the crowd stay in their seats, it will be time to end the fighting.

I'm not particularly saying I'm for/against fighting, that's not my point in saying this. I'm for/against what the fans demonstrate night after night is what they like. And that still is fighting. When the fans as a whole demonstrate they're against it, I will support that then.

As for hockey being a violent sport....yes, it is, but its not alone in that. Sports are often violent. Boxing draws millions of fans. And football, the great American past time, where players get hammered from behind, not all that disimilar from how Bertuzzi jumped Moore, fairly frequently, is far more violent as a whole than hockey to me. It's hardly rare to see a quarterback get tackled hard from behind, and I've definitely seen clubbing motions. The fact that its allowed doesn't make it any less violent does it?

I don't know gb, but it seems to me that right now hockey is no more violent than football, and right now....fans like the fighting.

That's just how I see it.

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03-12-2004, 07:26 PM
  #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rye&ginger
then you would know each case is individual, and Burke may be privy to information we dont have. Also the fracture being to the transverse processes makes return to sport much sooner, in the order of months, than a fractured verterbral body would be. Of couse, you know that allready. the fractures have been characterised as small and that they will heal fine, by the doctors at the hospital according to media reports today on radio.

debating Moore's condition is dumb.
No one has argued that there isn't a good chance that Moore will have no permanent damage from this and will make a return to hockey.

Debating Burkes statements as to when Moore will make a comeback isn't dumb, especially since those statements seemed self-serving and there has been no confirmation from any of the treating doctors.

Or are you saying Burke is honest when he takes a "best case scenario for this type of injury" and equates it with Moores return to the Avs? Or is he speculating and being self-serving?

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03-13-2004, 12:20 AM
  #75
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well well look what i started

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