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Old
02-28-2009, 03:12 AM
  #26
EucaLEAFtys
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Originally Posted by Alex28 View Post
I personally would go for that if we give up a 2nd instead of 1st, but just barely. Giving up Fleischmann, Osala and Bouchard is losing 3 likely top 6 wingers.
Agreed. I would truly hate to give up a much-improved Stajan. Would you consider the possibility of taking Grabovski instead of Stajan?

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02-28-2009, 03:37 AM
  #27
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Originally Posted by EucaLEAFtys View Post
Agreed. I would truly hate to give up a much-improved Stajan. Would you consider the possibility of taking Grabovski instead of Stajan?
Yeah, I actually like him and his insanity, but for the Capitals that may not work out. How about Lepisto instead of Bouchard for Stajan staying intact?

You're better off keeping Grabovski. He's a project, but if developed properly could be a hell of a weapon. Stajan is more of a sure thing but with a lower ceiling, imo. We need sure things now.

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02-28-2009, 05:00 AM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Alex28 View Post
Yeah, I actually like him and his insanity, but for the Capitals that may not work out. How about Lepisto instead of Bouchard for Stajan staying intact?

You're better off keeping Grabovski. He's a project, but if developed properly could be a hell of a weapon. Stajan is more of a sure thing but with a lower ceiling, imo. We need sure things now.
I'd say that Sami Lepisto would make an interesting acquisition. At this point, the Leafs have many holes to fill in their quest to become competitive again. Players like Osala, Bouchard, Lepisto, and Fleischmann could certainly help in that regard. More high-round draft picks would also help considerably.

If Stajan gets traded by next Wednesday, I will likely be a bit upset only because he has finally begun to show what he is capable of contributing to a team: consistency, which is something that the Leafs are currently in short supply.

I also hope that Grabovski pans out. With any luck, Ron Wilson should be able to mould Grabovski into a great NHLer within the next few seasons. One can only hope for the best when it comes to dealing with project players. These types of players seem to be either booms or busts.

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02-28-2009, 05:36 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Alex28 View Post
Yeah, I actually like him and his insanity, but for the Capitals that may not work out. How about Lepisto instead of Bouchard for Stajan staying intact?

You're better off keeping Grabovski. He's a project, but if developed properly could be a hell of a weapon. Stajan is more of a sure thing but with a lower ceiling, imo. We need sure things now.
I would also accept either Varlemov or Neuvirth as a substitute for Bouchard. Seeing as though you'd likely want to keep Varlemov, Neuvirth would be nice in some sort of side deal.

As I've previously stated, the Leafs have many holes to fill in their prospect pool as well as their team roster talent-wise.

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02-28-2009, 09:30 AM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Letang58 View Post
Very good proposal.

The Leafs would hate to add Nylander's contract at this point, but it might be worth it for that return.

Both teams have to give to get, but it makes sense.

A Kaberle-Green pairing would be great, because it would allow Green to go full out offensively without really having to worry about putting his team at a defensive disadvantage.
Terrible proposal. lol

Try Fehr, Carlson, 1st for Kaberle

Osala and a 2nd for Stajan.

We don't want Nylander or his retarded contract. If he's sent, send along another 1st with him. That's about the only way we take him

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02-28-2009, 09:37 AM
  #31
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If i'm BB, talks for Kaberle start with Alzner after that it's bartering about taking sal dumps and more.

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02-28-2009, 09:48 AM
  #32
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Originally Posted by Alex28 View Post
Kaberle, Stajan, 3rd

Nylander, Fleischmann, Osala, Della Rovere, 1st
Great proposal, if you guys don't want to deal Della Rovere just take out the Leafs 3rd. I doubt Nylander would waive, so it probably won't happen, but I like the deal. I'm a big fan of Fleischmann's.

So far as Kaberle's defensive play goes, he's actually pretty responsible. He doesn't take big chances, and he's pretty good at defending odd man rushes. Still, you wouldn't really want to play Kaberle and Green together, but I doubt that would happen.

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02-28-2009, 10:56 AM
  #33
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Originally Posted by EroCaps View Post
Fleischmann, Osala, Della Rovere AND a 1st?

Are you sure that's enough?

Why not throw in Carlson and Alzner and ask the Leafs for Dominic Moore and Jeff Finger?



Another epic overpayment from the Caps to the Leafs.

It would cost them less to get Pronger.

Pathetic how Caps fans underrate their own players and GM while other fan bases overrate their own.
Did you read his breakdown of the proposal?

A fringe 2nd liner on a team loaded with forwards, a good prospect, and a 1st for a top ten NHL defenseman.

AND

negative value + potential fourth line agitator for a short-term second line center and a pretty nice draft pick.

Still seem so bad?

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02-28-2009, 11:24 AM
  #34
DougGilmour93
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Originally Posted by Letang58 View Post
Did you read his breakdown of the proposal?

A fringe 2nd liner on a team loaded with forwards, a good prospect, and a 1st for a top ten NHL defenseman.

AND

negative value + potential fourth line agitator for a short-term second line center and a pretty nice draft pick.

Still seem so bad?
It's horrific.

Other (fans) have already offered much better without us taking on a salary dump.

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02-28-2009, 11:26 AM
  #35
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NHL player that can play now, Fehr (although I'd prefer someone better)

+

Top Prospect, Carlson

+

1st in 09

for

Kaberle


That's exactly the formula Burke clearly stated he wanted. He never mentioned B level prospects or salary dumps.

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02-28-2009, 11:34 AM
  #36
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Originally Posted by DougGilmour93 View Post
NHL player that can play now, Fehr (although I'd prefer someone better)
+
Top Prospect, Carlson
+
1st in 09

for

Kaberle


That's exactly the formula Burke clearly stated he wanted. He never mentioned B level prospects or salary dumps.
It isn't a bad deal at all. Fleischmann is way more valuable than Fehr, and Osala is a top prospect that I'd love to see on the Leafs. As far as salary dumps go, Nylander isn't that bad, and taking on salary is a reality for almost any deal you make. I wouldn't be surprised if we were able to deal Nylander again down the road if he revives his game with more icetime. Losing Stajan hurts, and I'd prefer to include Moore in the deal than him, but if it means getting Fleischmann I do it. We haven't had a winger with his level of talent since Mogilny.

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02-28-2009, 11:44 AM
  #37
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That makes zero sense. He's not gonna be in the top 6. He doesn't have some unique skill to light the world on fire other than to piss people off and play a bigger game than his size.

Bourque is more untouchable than him.
I'm just telling you what GMGM has already said. Also, Bourque is probably little more than a spare part on this team right now. He's going to have a tough time cracking our lineup any time soon, frankly I wouldn't be surprised to see him trded.

Anyways, GMGM specifically listed AnGus, Delly, Carlson, and Holtby (I gather he was only referring to non-NHL/AHL players) as "untouchable" (whatever his definition of the term is). I take it to mean, at the very least, that none of them are going to be offered this season. GMGM likes Della Rovere, he likes the edge he brings, probably thinks of him as a future Dale Hunterish player (sans the offense I suppose).

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02-28-2009, 11:45 AM
  #38
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the original proposal is not bad but there r soo many pieces flying around.. not a fan of nylander as we have blake already but if another pick is thrown in burke may just tempted to make this deal... coz kaberle is worth a full first stajan on the other hand could bring in a 3rd with nylander and etc...

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02-28-2009, 12:17 PM
  #39
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i dont think burke will want to add salary unless he wants to use nylander....two years is too long.

I think I heard he only has 10million to spend....and something like 9 spots to fill. Point being, if he wants to be able to take a shot at bouwmeester....or camelleri.....or backstrom....etc. Than he cant be signing players he doesnt want on the team (Nylander) for two years.

Even if Burke gets rid of some of the other contracts....I think you still need to be careful who you're paying and for how long.

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02-28-2009, 12:20 PM
  #40
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LMAO!! You want us to take Nylander for another 2 years after this at 4,875,000 per???????????????????????????

Here are my counter offers, Nylander for Blake or Nylander,2009 1rst for our 2009 7th.

Talks for Kaberle start with Alzner.

Burke stated he was willing to take sal dumps, not mistakes.

Having his 4,875,000 on the books for 2010 is a deal breaker IMO.


Last edited by Faltorvo: 02-28-2009 at 12:32 PM.
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Old
02-28-2009, 01:02 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by DougGilmour93 View Post
Terrible proposal. lol

Try Fehr, Carlson, 1st for Kaberle

Osala and a 2nd for Stajan.

We don't want Nylander or his retarded contract. If he's sent, send along another 1st with him. That's about the only way we take him
Fehr? No thanks.... I would rather have Fleischmann
Carlson? Highly unlikely as he is the Caps' top prospect on defence (I wouldn't mind having him though...)
1st (in '09)? Pretty much mandatory
Osala and a 2nd (in '09) for Stajan? I have the distinct feeling that you are reaching a bit here on this part of the deal. I don't think Stajan is worth Osala AND a 2nd; perhaps one OR the other, but most assuredly NOT both.

Also, Nylander's contract is not as bad as many people think. Besides, his contract would be off the books before the Leafs would be ready to compete for the playoffs anyways so taking on the contract isn't going to hurt them. In order to make the OP's proposal work, Nylander would have to waive his NTC (which is something he probably wouldn't do anyways).

So, in conclusion, the OP's proposal would have to be tweaked a bit in order to work for both sides.

PS. You still wouldn't get another 1st rndr even if Nylander deigned to waive his NTC. Sorry to burst your bubble there.

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02-28-2009, 01:29 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by EucaLEAFtys View Post
Fehr? No thanks.... I would rather have Fleischmann
Carlson? Highly unlikely as he is the Caps' top prospect on defence (I wouldn't mind having him though...)
1st (in '09)? Pretty much mandatory
Osala and a 2nd (in '09) for Stajan? I have the distinct feeling that you are reaching a bit here on this part of the deal. I don't think Stajan is worth Osala AND a 2nd; perhaps one OR the other, but most assuredly NOT both.

Also, Nylander's contract is not as bad as many people think. Besides, his contract would be off the books before the Leafs would be ready to compete for the playoffs anyways so taking on the contract isn't going to hurt them. In order to make the OP's proposal work, Nylander would have to waive his NTC (which is something he probably wouldn't do anyways).

So, in conclusion, the OP's proposal would have to be tweaked a bit in order to work for both sides.

PS. You still wouldn't get another 1st rndr even if Nylander deigned to waive his NTC. Sorry to burst your bubble there.
What gives you the idea that TO wants 4,875,000 extra on the books when the likes of Jbo,Nash,Gabo,Koval could be coming onto the market in the next 2 years.

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02-28-2009, 01:55 PM
  #43
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LMAO!! You want us to take Nylander for another 2 years after this at 4,875,000 per???????????????????????????

Here are my counter offers, Nylander for Blake or Nylander,2009 1rst for our 2009 7th.

Talks for Kaberle start with Alzner.

Burke stated he was willing to take sal dumps, not mistakes.

Having his 4,875,000 on the books for 2010 is a deal breaker IMO.
Talks end then with a belly laugh from McPhee.

Keep dreaming Leafs fans.

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02-28-2009, 01:55 PM
  #44
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i dont think burke will want to add salary unless he wants to use nylander....two years is too long.

I think I heard he only has 10million to spend....and something like 9 spots to fill. Point being, if he wants to be able to take a shot at bouwmeester....or camelleri.....or backstrom....etc. Than he cant be signing players he doesnt want on the team (Nylander) for two years.

Even if Burke gets rid of some of the other contracts....I think you still need to be careful who you're paying and for how long.
1) Nylander's contract is not that much more than Kaberle's and the remaining years on the terms are equal. ($4.875m vs. $4.25m: difference of $650k.... not a big concern).
2) The Leafs currently have approx. $9m to spend before they hit the cap ceiling.
3) The spots to fill will likely be filled either as the result of trades or promotions from within the organization (once again, not a big concern).
4) It is highly unlikely that Bouwmeester will sign here as it has been apparently stated that he wants to play on a contending team as long as said contending team is NOT a large-market team. The Leafs fail to meet these criteria.
5) It would still be possible to sign either Backstrom or Cammalleri, however other deals would likely have to take place before these potential signings happened.
6) Of course you would still need to be careful regarding who you're paying, how much you're paying, and for how long you're paying them. That's pretty much common sense.

The thing to remember here is that the Leafs are not going to be contenders for a few more years during which time they will continue to increase/improve their prospect pool as well as their big club. They willl probably not even spend to the cap ceiling anyways because there is no point in doing so at this time, unless they can garner some extra draft picks in the process of "sellling their cap-space".

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02-28-2009, 02:21 PM
  #45
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What gives you the idea that TO wants 4,875,000 extra on the books when the likes of Jbo,Nash,Gabo,Koval could be coming onto the market in the next 2 years.
I believe the operative word here is "could".

1) Bouwmeester wants to play on a CONTENDER. The Leafs are NOT a contender and won't likely be a contender for a few more years.
2) Nash will probably re-sign with CBJ.
3) You want to spend big money on Gsborik? Get real... he is far too injury-prone to be worth any substantial contract. Gaborik isn't even worth a $2m contract let alone anything higher. I guess you would want to pay him NOT to play.
4) See point #! above.
5) Brian Burke has stated that he would be willing to take on a salary dump IF the price was right. If the OP's proposal was "the right price", then the Leafs would only be taking on an extra $650k, not $4.875m because Kaberle would be going the other way. Also, in order for the OP's proposal to work, TO would have to take back salary since the Caps have very little cap-space to work with.

I hope this answers your question sufficiently.

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02-28-2009, 02:44 PM
  #46
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I doubt Caps would want Kaberle given that they already have Green. Kubina, on the other hand, is a much better fit.

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02-28-2009, 03:02 PM
  #47
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I doubt Caps would want Kaberle given that they already have Green. Kubina, on the other hand, is a much better fit.
Ahh, no... Green is their only decent puck-moving D-man. Kaberle would be the better choice in this case as he is a better PM'er than Kubina. Kaberle is also a better set-up man on the PP. Plus, the Caps can't afford to take on Kubina's contract w/o some serious salary coming back to the Leafs.

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02-28-2009, 03:36 PM
  #48
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Ahh, no... Green is their only decent puck-moving D-man. Kaberle would be the better choice in this case as he is a better PM'er than Kubina. Kaberle is also a better set-up man on the PP. Plus, the Caps can't afford to take on Kubina's contract w/o some serious salary coming back to the Leafs.
Poti's not bad as a puck-mover.

Kubina would be a better fit since he adds a physical element, and his shorter contract might be a plus as well (not to mention we could use another right Dman). The extra salary is an issue, no doubt, but it's less than a 1m difference so it's probably not insurmountable.

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02-28-2009, 04:02 PM
  #49
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Poti's not bad as a puck-mover.

Kubina would be a better fit since he adds a physical element, and his shorter contract might be a plus as well (not to mention we could use another right Dman). The extra salary is an issue, no doubt, but it's less than a 1m difference so it's probably not insurmountable.
I don't see the shorter salary as a plus. We don't have to resign any major players next year (Semin, Backstrom), so having a cheap Kaberle with the core for one more year would make us that much more threatening next year. Especially if Carlson is brought in on the 3rd pairing.

Poti makes an ok first pass but that's it. His offensive element has been more or less negligible with the Caps, especially since coming back from injury. Right now he's a very good positional defenseman who can eat up a lot of minutes without many mistakes, but that's it.

Kubina may be more physical but he's not as savvy of a playmaker and puck mover as Kaberle. For the physical element we're better off renting someone like Salei, even if we have to move additional salary with someone like Collins or Kronwall.

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02-28-2009, 04:05 PM
  #50
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What gives you the idea that TO wants 4,875,000 extra on the books when the likes of Jbo,Nash,Gabo,Koval could be coming onto the market in the next 2 years.
Probably the fact that Burke has a 0% chance of signing 3 of them and the 4th one has a groin made of glass.

Panthers are what the Leafs may be in 2-3 years IF everything goes according to plan. Why would JBo go to a team that's further back than the one he's on right now?

Kovalchuk is not leaving Atlanta. He's made that clear. A lot of times.

Nash would take something like 8-9 million to pry out of Columbus. Like JBo, he won't leave a team whose icon he is to play for a rebuilding franchise.

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