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Old
02-28-2009, 12:41 AM
  #1
BJG
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18.9

That is the number of millions of dollars our top 4 D-men get paid. Seems like a lot. Any of you numbers guys know how that compares to other teams' top pairings?

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Old
02-28-2009, 12:42 AM
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Pronger + Nieds = 13-14m

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Old
02-28-2009, 12:43 AM
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Iwishihadacup
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Well, if we have 20 millions on Dman we have 40 millions for forwards... It's really healthy if you ask me

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Old
02-28-2009, 12:48 AM
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BJG
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Originally Posted by Iwishihadacup View Post
Well, if we have 20 millions on Dman we have 40 millions for forwards... It's really healthy if you ask me
That's for 4 D, not 6 or 7. And what about money for Goalies?

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02-28-2009, 12:51 AM
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Iwishihadacup
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Brian Campbell+ any D-man = 10 millions

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Old
02-28-2009, 12:56 AM
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Guy Caballero
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The best teams build from the net out.

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Old
02-28-2009, 12:58 AM
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BJG
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Originally Posted by Guy Caballero View Post
The best teams build from the net out.
I agree. But would you say that we have an elite top 4? For a third of your cap space, you might expect that. BTW, this is befor Komi gets his raise.

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02-28-2009, 01:28 AM
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If we get a better D to replace Breeze it will be a solid group.

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Old
02-28-2009, 02:00 AM
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HellasLEAF
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Hamerlik is paid too much.

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Old
02-28-2009, 02:44 AM
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snakeye
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Originally Posted by HellasLEAF View Post
Hamerlik is paid too much.
Yeah but he's not on our team. We have Hamrlik on our team. But he too, is being payed too much. I think he kind of slowed down this season.

Btw anyone else thought the thread was about our PP percentage?

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Old
02-28-2009, 03:46 AM
  #11
Kriss E
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Originally Posted by BJG View Post
I agree. But would you say that we have an elite top 4? For a third of your cap space, you might expect that. BTW, this is befor Komi gets his raise.
It's also Schneider's, Breezer's, Bouillon's, Dandy's last season before their contracts are up.
So it changes little how much Komi's getting as a lot of room will be freed up.
I actually wouldn't surprised to see us with a higher total than 18.9 next season for our top4.
I think Komi will be resigned around 4M, and Gainey will try to get Bouwmeester. I really feel like Gainey will make a push for him.
It's still going to leave enough room to resign some of our guys up front too.

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Old
02-28-2009, 09:52 AM
  #12
didouche
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Lidstrom, Nicklas 7.450
Rafalski, Brian 6.000
Stuart, Brad 3.750
Kronwall, Niklas 3.000
=20.2M$

Markov, Andrei 5.750
Hamrlik, Roman 5.500
Komisarek, Mike 1.700
Schneider, Mathieu 5.625
=18,57M$

enough said

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Old
02-28-2009, 10:05 AM
  #13
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Schneider has been with us for 5 games so it's not like we paid the first 3.5 millions of this contract. We'll see next year how things will look like, but right now, I don't think it's fair to pretend that we have a 18 millions top 4...

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Old
02-28-2009, 10:17 AM
  #14
MTL-rules
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Originally Posted by Guy Caballero View Post
The best teams build from the net out.
Except the Stanley Cup winner...

Another great myth here, on HF...

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Old
02-28-2009, 10:24 AM
  #15
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Hamrlik + Schneider = Overpaid...

And Komisarek, will be the next overpaid habs.

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Old
02-28-2009, 10:25 AM
  #16
LePoche69
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Originally Posted by didouche View Post
Lidstrom, Nicklas 7.450
Rafalski, Brian 6.000
Stuart, Brad 3.750
Kronwall, Niklas 3.000
=20.2M$

Markov, Andrei 5.750
Hamrlik, Roman 5.500
Komisarek, Mike 1.700
Schneider, Mathieu 5.625
=18,57M$

enough said
Interesting view. So Habs d-men are paid too much, based on that comparison. There isn't 2 M difference between the top 4 D of the Stanley cup champions and Habs' top 4 D.

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Old
02-28-2009, 10:28 AM
  #17
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Interesting view. So Habs d-men are paid too much, based on that comparison. There isn't 2 M difference between the top 4 D of the Stanley cup champions and Habs' top 4 D.
No, the talent is pretty equal, the problem is the coach...

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Old
02-28-2009, 10:34 AM
  #18
LePoche69
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Originally Posted by MTL-rules View Post
No, the talent is pretty equal, the problem is the coach...
I don't think so. How can it be equal when one top 4 has one of the best d-man of all time (like it or not), + a Markov-like d-man as a second?

In my opinion, the comparison ends with Lidstrom. He's a d-man who's a superstar by any standards, a franchise player. There is absolutly no player near that status in the entire Habs lineup.

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Old
02-28-2009, 10:44 AM
  #19
MTL-rules
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Originally Posted by LePoche69 View Post
I don't think so. How can it be equal when one top 4 has one of the best d-man of all time (like it or not), + a Markov-like d-man as a second?

In my opinion, the comparison ends with Lidstrom. He's a d-man who's a superstar by any standards, a franchise player. There is absolutly no player near that status in the entire Habs lineup.
Rafalski is more a Schneider-like D-men... His numbers are inflated because he plays with Lidstrom...

The difference is really between Lidstrom's talent and Markov's... and it's not that wide, espacially this year...

But they got much better forwards in front and a much much much much better coach...

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Old
02-28-2009, 10:53 AM
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LePoche69
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Originally Posted by MTL-rules View Post
Rafalski is more a Schneider-like D-men... His numbers are inflated because he plays with Lidstrom...
I more or less agree here. Maybe more Schneider-like, I can give you that, but his numbers were already pretty good in New jersey, with no one else to help.

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Originally Posted by MTL-rules View Post
The difference is really between Lidstrom's talent and Markov's... and it's not that wide, espacially this year...
This is where we're absolutly not agreeing. If anything, Markov is showing this year that he is a very good d-man but who can't play more than 25 minutes without starting to lose his composure. He is a star, but far from a superstar, and he is a star since only 1 or 2 years. Lidstrom is way older and is again playing lots of minutes without fading away that much (more than in the past, tho, I agree). But he still has superstar composure, and if anything, HE is the one making the others around him better, not the other way around.


Quote:
Originally Posted by MTL-rules View Post
But they got much better forwards in front and a much much much much better coach...
For the "better forwards" part, I agree completly. For the coach part, I tend to presume it's right, but I can't be as sure as you are. It's kinda hard to know for sure...

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Old
02-28-2009, 10:58 AM
  #21
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Originally Posted by MTL-rules View Post
Except the Stanley Cup winner...

Another great myth here, on HF...
They are the exception, not the rule.

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Old
02-28-2009, 11:54 AM
  #22
habfaninvictoria
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Markov and Schneider are playing great and in todays NHL they're paid appropriately.

Markov has been our #1 and is probably underpaid, he had a wonky stretch but how much was him and how much was the crap around the team...
If you think Schneider is overpaid how about prorating his 5 games over the whole year, what's he got 3 goals and 6 points, as well as being solid defensively.
Hamrlik was awesome last year and for the first part of this one, he's struggling for sure right now. Last year we go great value for him but this one not so much, hopefully he can turn it around.

Komisarek is a physical presence, no one likes standing in front of our net or near the boards in our zone,but handles the puck like a red hot coal, he can't wait to get rid of it and as a result nothing good happens. He brought down Markov's game and now he's doing it to Hammer. Maybe he's hurt, only him and the team know for sure but at this moment if he was part of the asking price for Kaberle I'd say, done. He still got value, but if this keeps up he won't. He's liable to attract a ton of attention as UFA and we may not retain him anyway, might as well get something in return.

With any luck our d next could be..

Markov-Schneider/Kaberle
Hamrlik-Subban
Gorges-O'bryne/McDonagh/

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Old
02-28-2009, 12:05 PM
  #23
BJG
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Quote:
Originally Posted by didouche View Post
Lidstrom, Nicklas 7.450
Rafalski, Brian 6.000
Stuart, Brad 3.750
Kronwall, Niklas 3.000
=20.2M$

Markov, Andrei 5.750
Hamrlik, Roman 5.500
Komisarek, Mike 1.700
Schneider, Mathieu 5.625
=18,57M$

enough said
Again, just woke up. This was just the kind of comparison I was asking for. When I read it I assumed Didouche was illustrating the significantly better top 4 Detroit has for only 10% more salary. But in reading some other comments it appears that some feel it proves the opposite, that we are getting good value for the money and that the Wings' and Habs' top 4 are comparable. I would be curious what all think, but mostly which of the two points you were you trying to make, Didouche?

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Old
02-28-2009, 12:15 PM
  #24
didouche
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BJG View Post
Again, just woke up. This was just the kind of comparison I was asking for. When I read it I assumed Didouche was illustrating the significantly better top 4 Detroit has for only 10% more salary. But in reading some other comments it appears that some feel it proves the opposite, that we are getting good value for the money and that the Wings' and Habs' top 4 are comparable. I would be curious what all think, but mostly which of the two points you were you trying to make, Didouche?
good value for now

I only hope that komi will realize that he isn't worth more than kronwall and we can sign him at 3./3.5 M (average salary on the whole contract)

I would love to have next year

Markov, Andrei 5.750
Hamrlik, Roman 5.500
Komisarek, Mike 3.00
Schneider, Mathieu 3.5
gorges
obyrne
brisebois (if doesn't retire)
emelin
weber/carle/subban

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Old
02-28-2009, 12:17 PM
  #25
Rscorpio
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AgRiVaToRR View Post
If we get a better D to replace Breeze it will be a solid group.
Dandy

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