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Old
02-26-2009, 12:55 PM
  #1
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Question about Shea Webber.

I am a big watcher of The NHL Network and huge listener of Hockey Night IN Canada. at the beginning of the season they talked about shea webber being one of the best d-man in the league. i was just wandering how his season has been or is. i havent heard them talk about him like they did.



just curious,




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02-26-2009, 01:07 PM
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Weber has struggled since the All-Star Break, and his offense has all but disappeared (in no small part due to the massive suckitude of our forward corps). His bid for the Norris is all but over unless the team just explodes offensively.

Suter is the more complete defenseman, and our #1, IMO.

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02-26-2009, 01:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by worstfaceoffmanever View Post
Weber has struggled since the All-Star Break, and his offense has all but disappeared (in no small part due to the massive suckitude of our forward corps). His bid for the Norris is all but over unless the team just explodes offensively.

Suter is the more complete defenseman, and our #1, IMO.
yea. im not trying to be like flaming you team. i just wanted to know if it was just a little streak or was this a thing you guys could see alot of. and by thing i mean Webber putting pucks in the net. thats too bad that you guys dont get to see that anymore or less than what you did.

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02-26-2009, 01:32 PM
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Weber is still able to put it in the net, but when no one else on the team can score, the opposition can put 2 guys on Weber on the PP so he can't get his shot off.

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02-26-2009, 01:46 PM
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A lot of the reason he isn't scoring as much is because we are relying on our defense to be perfect. Any mistake is a goal against right now. Additionally, Trotz inexplicably took him off the first PP unit, so much of his PP time is spent retrieving the puck/trying to get it in the zone (i.e. it is misleading and worthless). An anemic offense doesn't help either...

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02-26-2009, 01:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pcgflyers12 View Post
yea. im not trying to be like flaming you team. i just wanted to know if it was just a little streak or was this a thing you guys could see alot of. and by thing i mean Webber putting pucks in the net. thats too bad that you guys dont get to see that anymore or less than what you did.
Weber is still the beast he was at the beginning of the year... Just teams KNOW that he is our main offensive weapon now and play tight point up high in the defensive zone to cut off the point shot from him and Suter.

You would expect that since this has happened, that our forwards would get more goals in return. But alas, our forwards have all but disappear on the scoresheet since teams started doing this. Thus, allowing teams to JUST shut down Weber and Suter and not really having to worry about anyone else on the team.


One positive note: 2 goals in the past 2 games for Weber. Neither one from the blueline either... He is learning to become very mobile in the offensive zone by making back-door cuts and finding the opening in the high slot area. Hopefully he keeps this up and will score a few more. If the PP starts to contribute more to the Preds offense, you will likely see his assist count rise too.

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02-26-2009, 01:50 PM
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how to spell his name?

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02-26-2009, 07:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by utmfisher19 View Post
Weber is still the beast he was at the beginning of the year... Just teams KNOW that he is our main offensive weapon now and play tight point up high in the defensive zone to cut off the point shot from him and Suter.

You would expect that since this has happened, that our forwards would get more goals in return. But alas, our forwards have all but disappear on the scoresheet since teams started doing this. Thus, allowing teams to JUST shut down Weber and Suter and not really having to worry about anyone else on the team.


One positive note: 2 goals in the past 2 games for Weber. Neither one from the blueline either... He is learning to become very mobile in the offensive zone by making back-door cuts and finding the opening in the high slot area. Hopefully he keeps this up and will score a few more. If the PP starts to contribute more to the Preds offense, you will likely see his assist count rise too.

i guess that is the logical answer. like i said i wasnt trying to "flame" or put down your team. i was just wandering.

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02-28-2009, 11:04 PM
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yea. he's doing decent

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02-28-2009, 11:15 PM
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lilja found out a little of what it's like to tug on superman's cape tonight.

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03-01-2009, 02:41 AM
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Wrong!

Quote:
Originally Posted by worstfaceoffmanever View Post
Weber has struggled since the All-Star Break, and his offense has all but disappeared (in no small part due to the massive suckitude of our forward corps). His bid for the Norris is all but over unless the team just explodes offensively.

Suter is the more complete defenseman, and our #1, IMO.
If you think that Suter is the better defenseman in any way, then you're myopic at best. Other teams adjusting to you does not a #2 defenseman make. Ryan Suter will never, but never, compete for any awards during his career. There is no aspect of the game in which Weber does not surpass Suter.

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03-01-2009, 03:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brown Angel View Post
If you think that Suter is the better defenseman in any way, then you're myopic at best. Other teams adjusting to you does not a #2 defenseman make. Ryan Suter will never, but never, compete for any awards during his career. There is no aspect of the game in which Weber does not surpass Suter.
Suter is a better skater than Weber. There. Your argument is now blown.

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03-01-2009, 12:12 PM
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Weber

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Originally Posted by Predanerd View Post
Suter is a better skater than Weber. There. Your argument is now blown.
How is my argument blown? One could argue that Suter is a better skater, but that still doesn't blow my argument. My argument is that Weber is the better player and the number one defenseman for the Nashville Predators. You may be belaboring a point within my argument, but you certainly haven't blown it to bits.

Anyways, I think Weber had one of the better games I've seen last nite. I think that's our first Gordie Howe Hat Trick since Tootoo had one earlier in the year. This game has reached vaunted "Save Until I Delete" Tivo status already.

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03-01-2009, 07:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brown Angel View Post
If you think that Suter is the better defenseman in any way, then you're myopic at best. Other teams adjusting to you does not a #2 defenseman make. Ryan Suter will never, but never, compete for any awards during his career. There is no aspect of the game in which Weber does not surpass Suter.
Suter can actually get the puck out of his own zone on the power play, and he's the far more mobile defenseman, which means he doesn't get burned nearly as often as Weber (who, despite playing his best game since December last night, got burned at least once on a rush). Suter is furthermore the superior stickhandler, which becomes noticeable when the two work down low in the offensive zone.

He's also the better positional defenseman, which is why he sees almost twice as much shorthanded ice time as Weber.

Suter is a better overall player than Weber. That's not to say Weber isn't good at what he does, he just has weaknesses, mainly in his own zone, that Suter doesn't.

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03-01-2009, 09:05 PM
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Brown, it is not nearly as clear as you seem to indicate. There are aspects of each player's game that are superior to the other. They are really not cut from the same cloth, so it is hard to make a head-to-head comparison of them.

Suter is much better carrying the puck, better skater, has a better wrist shot (or is smarter about using, perhaps). Really knows how to neutralize a guy on the rush with superior positioning and strength.

Weber delivers more punishing hits, has a better slap shot, maybe a little flashier. Both are very effective in their own way, but I don't think one is light years better than the other.

And to say that Suter will never get an award in his career, well, you must be pretty clairvoyant to be able to make that call.

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03-01-2009, 09:43 PM
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I think Suter is overshadowed by Weber in many regards, and as such is somewhat underrated both around the league and among our fans.

That said, there's an argument for Weber being one of the best all around defenseman in the league, NOW, and I don't think that case can be made for Suter.

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03-01-2009, 11:54 PM
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the battle wages on!

I think Suter is a fine player, but certainly not the impact player that Weber has already become. I think it's fairly silly to quibble over the idiosyncrasies of their skill set. Bottom line: Weber is the type of player rarely found and the type one strives to build a team around. Suter is a solid defenseman who contributes, but those of his ilk are much easier to find. I'm curious to know how you guys rate the other d-men we've got.

Enjoying this,
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03-01-2009, 11:58 PM
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If I had to sum it up I would say this:

When Weber is playing his style of game up to his highest capabilty he is a superstar.

When Suter is playing his style of game up to his highest capabilty he is a star.


Suter has made the biggest step this year and both are the cornerstones of this franchise.

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03-02-2009, 07:31 AM
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I haven't said much, but I will say this: Right now, Suter is the better defenseman. If I had to choose who I would rather keep, though, it would be Weber.

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03-02-2009, 09:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brown Angel View Post
I think Suter is a fine player, but certainly not the impact player that Weber has already become. I think it's fairly silly to quibble over the idiosyncrasies of their skill set. Bottom line: Weber is the type of player rarely found and the type one strives to build a team around. Suter is a solid defenseman who contributes, but those of his ilk are much easier to find. I'm curious to know how you guys rate the other d-men we've got.

Enjoying this,
JHHBjr
To me... the best way of explaining this is by comparisons around the League.

For our team -- Weber is Pronger and Suter is Neidermayer.

They are incomparable due to their completely different styles. Suter is quicker, faster, better puck-handler, better passer, better positionally, maybe better at stopping the cycle in the defensive zone along the boards, and might have one of the most underrated poke-checks in the NHL period.

Weber on the other hand throws thunderous hits, cannon-like slapshots, and is unmatched at keeping the puck in at the blueline in the offensive zone.


Two different styles that both compliment each other extremely well.

If the game were on the line, and we were down, I would put Weber out there; but if the game were on the line and we were up, I would put Suter out there. Now if the game were tied, I would still probably have to pick Suter.

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03-02-2009, 10:51 AM
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Another thing that should be mentioned:

Down the stretch, Suter has been our number 1 defensemen each of the past three years (I think he has been our number one this year pretty much all season). He shows up in big games. It was odd seeing it happen even with Kimmo here, but Suter was given a huge chunk of minutes and was truly our best guy at the end of that year (the earlier part of the season was a different scenario). Suter repeated that sequence last year, but this year he has been good from the beginning. I think we have finally seen what a mature and unencumbered (no Zidlicky as his partner) Suter can do, and it is great for our future.

Down the stretch and in the playoffs, Weber has been amazing. His production peaks in March and in the playoffs each year (check it out, in 05-06, and 06-07 March is his best month statistically). Additionally, 9 points in 15 games in the post-season.....he has been a monster each playoff season.

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03-02-2009, 02:33 PM
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More Ranting from JHHBjr

Quote:
Originally Posted by Enoch View Post
Another thing that should be mentioned:

Down the stretch, Suter has been our number 1 defensemen each of the past three years (I think he has been our number one this year pretty much all season). He shows up in big games. It was odd seeing it happen even with Kimmo here, but Suter was given a huge chunk of minutes and was truly our best guy at the end of that year (the earlier part of the season was a different scenario). Suter repeated that sequence last year, but this year he has been good from the beginning. I think we have finally seen what a mature and unencumbered (no Zidlicky as his partner) Suter can do, and it is great for our future.

Down the stretch and in the playoffs, Weber has been amazing. His production peaks in March and in the playoffs each year (check it out, in 05-06, and 06-07 March is his best month statistically). Additionally, 9 points in 15 games in the post-season.....he has been a monster each playoff season.
Ryan Suter averages 20 more seconds on the ice than Shea Weber. In every other statistical category, including +/-, which I do consider a useless stat but is vaunted by many old-schoolers to show a player's positioning or defensive value, Weber exceeds. Suter's greatest asset to his game, right now, is that he is paired with Shea. I know it may be hard to remember, but there was a time when Dan Hamhuis was spoken of in the same tones as some of you are speaking of Suter, but that certainly isn't the case any longer. When Hamhuis was paired with a defenseman who was a "presence" on the ice, to steal Ken Dryden's description of a young Larry Robinson, it made the game easier for him, thereby limiting his mistakes and giving him space. I think the same has happened with Suter. I certainly don't remember the past two years the way Enoch has, although I love Suter and think he's made great strides, particularly this year. The Niedermayer comparisons above are really off, I think, as Suter projects as more of a Kevin Bieksa than anything else, whereas Weber is already putting up great numbers and projects more like a Rob Blake.

I guess my thesis is this: Suter is a solid defenseman who eats minutes, whereas Weber is something truly special. For all the complaints about Weber's positioning, it's the chances he takes that turn into positive plays for the Preds. If stoic, stay-at-home defensemen are all you're after, you can have a team full of them, and a team with some Webers and Greens is gonna beat you. We need our Suters and Zanons, but we really need our Webers. And the Webers of the world are a lot harder to fine.

Whew. I've said my bit. I know we'll never agree, but it sure is fun to argue Preds with some knowledgeable fans, rather than the stuffy casual fans with whom I sit. I would like to know how you guys rate the other D-men, with regards to their skillset, prospective careers, etc. Should I start a new thread for it? I feel like I've hijacked this one away from its origin.

Go Preds,
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03-02-2009, 03:41 PM
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Angel, I disagree with some of your points. I too feel Weber is special, but I think you are kidding yourself if you feel Suter has not been better defensively than Shea this year. He has been. I think the comparison of Niedermayer was just used to show how different their overall game is. Suter is a skater and puckhandler. He is nasty along the boards. Weber is a shooter and open-ice hitter. He is also physical along the boards, but he isn't nearly as effective at carrying the puck or moving the puck like Suter. This is the primary reason why Suter is still on the first powerplay unit over Weber (although I will readily agree that it is sheer stupidity to not have Weber on the first PP unit and if given the choice I would have both on that unit or Weber if just one).

As for the TOI comparison, I don't think it computes. We both know Trotz rolls his lines, and as the two are paired together, they should have similar minutes. The past three years in march through the playoffs, I truly do believe Suter was our best or second best defenseman. Hamhuis has always been in the top 3, but he is unable to take his game to another level as Weber and Suter have. Weber has been a beast in those periods as well. Where he ranks overall, I am unsure. Suffice to say that Weber and Suter both bring it in big games, which is all that is important. Weber can be a game-changer/momentum-swinger, Suter is more consistent and better all around IMO at this point in their careers. It probably helps that Suter has an injury free 2007-2008 to build upon that Weber does not. To somewhat agree with you, if I had to choose between the too, it would be Weber, without a doubt.

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03-02-2009, 04:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brown Angel View Post
The Niedermayer comparisons above are really off, I think, as Suter projects as more of a Kevin Bieksa than anything else, whereas Weber is already putting up great numbers and projects more like a Rob Blake.
I used it as a comparison model (showing how different the two players are). I was not using it saying Suter is a mold of Niedermayer and Weber is a mold of Pronger, more saying comparing Suter to Weber is like comparing Niedermayer to Pronger.

Sorry, it was not well presented in my post.

Not much else to add on to what Enoch said as I agree 110%

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03-02-2009, 04:15 PM
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Weber gave Lilja a concussion when he handed him his rear end

http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog/Mark-...sacre/77/19733

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