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Should we deal Zherdev and Girardi? (NO!)

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Old
02-26-2009, 05:27 PM
  #1
Ola
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Should we deal Zherdev and Girardi? (NO!)

Its really early with Torts behind the bench and every conclusion and evaluation is uncertain.

But after watching last night game; I definitly fear that Zherdev and Girardi really will struggle under Torts.

Torts won't stand players not beeing disciplined and smart on the ice. He is not extreme in that way, most coaches are like that. Atleast a couple of times per game he will really shake his head with plays Zherdev makes. Zherdev also is a much worse fit in Torts system then in Renney's. Zherdev wants to change tempo, thats his strengths. Attack a D thats standing still. Torts wants, or scratch that, Torts will demand -- nothing less -- that this team will play at the highest possible tempo at all times. That gives players like Zherdev much less room to play his style.

Girardi is a really smart D. He can take the body. He passes the puck well. He got really good poise. But he lives on his smarts. He is probably the slowest D's when it comes to turning this team have had since the lockout -- and it basically only shows every 3rd game because his positioning is so good. But with Torts we will start to loose allot more pucks all over the ice. Thoose lost pucks at the wrong areas will 10x with this style. That could really make life allot tougher on Girardi with Torts then under Renney.

Don't get me wrong, I really like both these guys. The reason I thought about if its time to move them is because 1. they have value and 2. they could take steps back under Torts. 3. That Zherdev -- with the KHL driving up the price -- will demand a big paycheck this summer. Probably at the least 5m or something; that could be tough for us under the cap. In that order.

My thinking is that a package of like Zherdev, Girardi, a prospect and a 1st really might get us goto 1st line player -- like a Gaborik or Spezza -- if one gets available at the deadline. Gomez could then be dealt for a good top 4 D.

Like in two deals like these;
Zherdev, Girardi, Sanguinetti and a 1st for Gaborik and Zidlicky
Scott Gomez for Shea Weber

(these specific deals would never happend for numerous reasons (Gaborik is injured for starters), but they are not my point, I mean more like deals "like" them. Like;
1. A offensive star who could get moves (Gaborik/Spezza/LeCav/other
2. A solid defensive D on a team who have problems attracting big UFA stars. Like Nsh, EDM, ATL, NYI, CBJ and others. A team looking for a upswing but that now that they won't ever be able to get a big star on the UFA market would definitly be interested in Gomez. With that said, Nsh and Webber definitly don't have to be a option. But like that...)

Gaborik-Drury-Korpikoski
Avery-Dubinsky-Näslund
Sjöström-Bell-Callahan
Voros-Betts-Orr
Staal-Rozsival
Webber-Zidlicky
Redden-Mara


That would be much more of a Tortorella team so to speak. Tremendous straightahead speed in Gaborik. A PP specialist is a must and Zidlicky is just that. A hardnosed D in Webber especially. Much less temposhifting forwards.

Disclaimer: Please don't misunderstand me and think that I belive we should get rid of Z or Girardi. Or that I think that they can't work under Torts. But thats 2 guys with value, who potentially could struggle under Torts. But they especially have value and could help turning this into a Torts team.

We have made a ton of changes lately, and would really benefit from keeping the roster somewhat complete. At the same time, we don't have a Torts team and changes we will need to make changes sooner or later.

The real question is, should we deal some of the valueble playeres we have right away to get a team more fit for Tortorella?

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Old
02-26-2009, 05:33 PM
  #2
broadwayblue
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Don't know about dealing those 2 particular guys...but I think we should be sellers this coming week. Naslund has to have decent value, and I'd love to move a couple other guys as well. Free up as much cap space as possible and add a couple picks and prospects at the same time. Doubt it will happen, as this team wants badly to make the POs, but other than earning a few $ from the extra home games, will this team really even make it out of the first round against Boston or Washington? Doubtful imo. I'd rather retool and make a real run next year and the year after.

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Old
02-26-2009, 05:35 PM
  #3
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There is NO chance of getting Shea Weber for Scott Gomez. None.

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Old
02-26-2009, 05:35 PM
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iamaranger
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its been 1 game......

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Old
02-26-2009, 05:39 PM
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Vitto79
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no no no and .................no

They are going to keep all of their young players

Guys that are going to likely move or they will try to move are Gomez, Rozsival(that will clear salary_........Voros, Prucha and Dawes ( smaller forwards and a crappy bigger one) and on D , Kalinin to move more salary and for the fact that his turn overs are horrific

I will be thrilled if they are all gone and I don't even really care what they get back

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Old
02-26-2009, 05:44 PM
  #6
eco's bones
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I can only see moving quality young players for quality young players.

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Old
02-26-2009, 05:48 PM
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bumrusherer
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On the list of things to be done with this team...dealing Z and Girardi should be quite far down that list.

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Old
02-26-2009, 05:50 PM
  #8
Cynical TyranT
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This is getting ridiculous. Why is everybody suddenly trying to deal Zherdev?

And Gomer for Weber? Massively one-sided...

C'mon Ola... you're usually on top of this stuff.. heh

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Old
02-26-2009, 05:51 PM
  #9
TheHotRock
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weber for gomez??? cmon ola, you're a LOT better than that


but yea, i wouldn't mind seeing these two shipped out, the return will be nice.

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Old
02-26-2009, 05:53 PM
  #10
TrojanRanger
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Ola is on point with this post IMO.

Don't know if I'd package Z, Girardi, Sangs and a first for anyone other than a Kovalchuk but you have to wonder what a package of Z and Girardi would bring back.

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Old
02-26-2009, 05:57 PM
  #11
GothamRanger
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Zherdev is not as undisciplined as you make him out to be, and Gerardi's stock is as low as it's been during his short career in the NHL. Keep both please.

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Old
02-26-2009, 05:58 PM
  #12
glees68
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I don't know. Zherdev looked pretty solid under the system for the FIRST TIME. You guys have to know it takes more than 2 days to learn a whole new system. Give them time.

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Old
02-26-2009, 05:59 PM
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ThirdEye
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If it's those two + prospect/pick for Kovalchuk then you have to do it.

But then comes the question... how are you going to sign Kovalchuk wit no cap space? Ditto with Gaborik

Also, Gomez for Weber is pretty funny.

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Old
02-26-2009, 05:59 PM
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Cherepanisimov
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Ola, you are definitely one of the most intelligent posters on this forum, but come on, I have a hard time believing that you watched the game if you don't think they played well. Girardi was great. He has really struggled lately and it was his first game in a while that he has gone back to his early season form. He made smart decisions with the puck, made good passes, and played first-class positionally. I thought he and Staal played fantastic together. I think we have found a special pairing here. I thought Zherdev had an even better game. He was forechecking and putting pressure on the Leafs like crazy, and as a result, got many scoring chances. He was down low in the offensive zone when the Leafs had the puck and forced Toronto to cough it up. Tortorella has said that we needed to turn up the pressure, and that is EXACTLY what Zherdev did/ Lately, his play has dropped a bit along with the rest of the team, but he got several quality scoring chances, and by the looks of it, he can really flourish in Tortorella's system. No offense because you haven't done this in the past, but I wouldn't advise you to put that Gomez for Weber or even the Gaborik proposal on the Trade board, because it is just too bad in so many ways. Anyway, Zherdev and Girardi were two of our best players last night, so if you don't think they played well, give them a few more games.

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02-26-2009, 06:04 PM
  #15
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I don't think you deal assets like that unless you're getting considerable value for them. Especially considering 1) there has been zero time to evaluate how they will do with this coach and 2) this coach has a lot to prove and there is no telling if this team will succeed at all with him and how long he will last. I don't think you give up young assets with high potential to accommodate a coach who has to show that he can bring success to an organization that has little patience for failure from coaches (in spite of the plethora of failure it has seen from many a coaches).

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02-26-2009, 06:07 PM
  #16
segmentation fault
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If it nets a return why not?

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Old
02-26-2009, 06:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iamaranger View Post
its been 1 game......
This.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GothamRanger View Post
Zherdev is not as undisciplined as you make him out to be, and Gerardi's stock is as low as it's been during his short career in the NHL. Keep both please.
This.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bring Back Avery View Post
I don't know. Zherdev looked pretty solid under the system for the FIRST TIME. You guys have to know it takes more than 2 days to learn a whole new system. Give them time.
And this.

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Old
02-26-2009, 06:55 PM
  #18
Levitate
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I think you might actually be overanalyzing Tortorella's gameplan at this point...we don't know for sure how things are going to shake out with him and how he wants the team to play, what adjustments he might make that would differ from how he coached Tampa, and how the players would react to it.

Maybe after the end of the season we will have a better idea

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Old
02-26-2009, 06:59 PM
  #19
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I'm surprised to see Ola in such panic mode over Tortorella, given that the franchise was heading absolutely nowhere prior to him taking over anyway.

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Old
02-26-2009, 07:09 PM
  #20
bobbop
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If there is a value for value trade out there, I'm listening. But I find it hard to believe you can get equal value for either player for different reasons. Ola, I think you make good points about Nik not fitting in with Torts. Deserved or not, Zherdev has lots of baggage. New York was supposed to be his change of scenery. Been OK, but hasn't blossomned like everyone hoped. I believe Girardi is a much better player than most here think. I thnk he will be fine in any system and thrive for many years to come. Getting what I would see as equal value for him would be very difficult -- a young scorer with a high ceiling.

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Old
02-26-2009, 08:11 PM
  #21
z1co80
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I really hope someone comes in with an offer sheet of over $5m for Zherdev but whether thats possible or not is another story because teams will see he really hasnt been all that different from when he was in Columbus, one night he looks up for it the next not so much.

I love Z but he is frustrating to watch

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Old
02-26-2009, 08:27 PM
  #22
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those two trade would not happen

first off the gomez for weber wouldn't happen cause he is one of nashville best players.

plus like the rangers said they aren't going to really give up there young players that are in the system

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Old
02-26-2009, 08:28 PM
  #23
bumrusherer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rangersfan30 View Post
I really hope someone comes in with an offer sheet of over $5m for Zherdev but whether thats possible or not is another story because teams will see he really hasnt been all that different from when he was in Columbus, one night he looks up for it the next not so much.

I love Z but he is frustrating to watch
Personally, he seems ''up for it'' on most nights. The problem is that because he tries the flashy play, it doesnt always have a great success rate. On the off nights, it doesnt look great.

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Old
02-26-2009, 09:24 PM
  #24
Richter35
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i think we should move girardi..maybe him and pruchs for derek morris? he hasnt been playing well for a while we need to get some value before he has none.

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Old
02-26-2009, 09:32 PM
  #25
KotsyJr
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I sure hope we don't overpay for Zherdev to keep him. Just another guy who can't finish and takes nights off.

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