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Old
02-28-2009, 08:57 PM
  #26
DaStars99
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knew it was coming, garbage still

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Old
02-28-2009, 08:58 PM
  #27
Kritter471
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Ott's been suspended pending a hearing Monday, which is the case with any match penalty. And honestly, I understand that. I would hope the one game gets it done since he didn't want to fight, he didn't start the fight, and the eye gouge sounds like it was accidental and jsut them getting tangled up.

HF - I stand by what I've been saying. Selling off token guys is fine. Touching what would be core for next year is not. And since we disagree on what core is, we'll disagree on who those guys are.

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Old
02-28-2009, 09:15 PM
  #28
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Ott's going to get more than a game or two because of his reputation and previous suspension history. I'll just say I'll be surprised and pleasantly pleased if he gets less than five games. Gouging can't be ignored by the league.

My only worry about moving Lundqvist and Sutherby is if they're both gone Dallas has no one to play center except Ott going back to center, which will be hard if he's suspended. Though I guess Neal could for a game or two.

I expect Lundqvist to go but Sutherby is actually more valuable. At least to me so Dallas should get a better return for the later. Either way I just can't picture Dallas being a buyer.

There's no one player that could fix the stars now. Not even Bouwmeester.

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02-28-2009, 09:26 PM
  #29
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He's got a previous suspension, but it was for a high hit. It makes him a repeat offender, but I don't think it will play in as much as it would if Ott got out of control on a hit again. Reputation yes, but again, his reputation isn't for stuff like that (the Ruuttu-eque biting, stomping, eyegouging). It's for being wild with his body.

And we've seen eyegouging before not punished harshly if it was determined to be an accident. It'll be up to what the refs saw on this one, I think. And I don't think it will be five. Really dirty head-hunting has gotten five recently from guys with histories. I'm expecting three and hoping for just the one.

I will also kick something if Giguere and Moen, but mostly Giguere, get off without anything.

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Old
02-28-2009, 09:29 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hull Fan View Post
I knew Ryan was after Crosby I just wondered if that pick was orginally Edmonton's that went to Anaheim after the Penner offer sheet. Otherwise how did Anaheim draft second? I don't remember them being one of the worst teams in the league in 2004-05.

****

I looked it up. No the pick wasn't from the Penner deal. This was Anaheim's own pick. So were they that bad before the lockout? I don't remember this. Anyway boo Anaheim because I do not want to see this kid six games a year for the next half decade.
haha no that pick was in the huge lottery were all the teams had 1 ball and got the picks in random because of the lockout
worst year and half ever !
I dont care who hates what teams I think we can all agree that we never want that lockout to happen again!

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Old
02-28-2009, 09:35 PM
  #31
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Did you like Bégin?

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Old
02-28-2009, 09:38 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kritter471 View Post
He's got a previous suspension, but it was for a high hit. It makes him a repeat offender, but I don't think it will play in as much as it would if Ott got out of control on a hit again. Reputation yes, but again, his reputation isn't for stuff like that (the Ruuttu-eque biting, stomping, eyegouging). It's for being wild with his body.

And we've seen eyegouging before not punished harshly if it was determined to be an accident. It'll be up to what the refs saw on this one, I think. And I don't think it will be five. Really dirty head-hunting has gotten five recently from guys with histories. I'm expecting three and hoping for just the one.

I will also kick something if Giguere and Moen, but mostly Giguere, get off without anything.
Why would Giguere get any suspension?
He hit Ott with his blocker because Ott was cross checking Niedermayer for no real reason because with less then 3 seconds left wouldnt you just go straight to the net instead of cross checking a player from behind? That is just stupid on Ott part. Also Ott being suspended has little to do with his altercation with Giguere it is because he supposedly jab Moen's eye during the fight which if is true is deserving of a suspension. If not and there is no evidence then no suspensions should be dealt out.
To be honest, Ott deserves to have gotten his rear end handled to him on a platter by Moen because he has been running his mouth and giving out cheap shots and hasn't stepped up to any fights because of his hand injury. If you can't fight because of an injury then don't go around acting like your tough **** when your not.

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Old
02-28-2009, 09:48 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by justheducks View Post
haha no that pick was in the huge lottery were all the teams had 1 ball and got the picks in random because of the lockout
worst year and half ever !
I dont care who hates what teams I think we can all agree that we never want that lockout to happen again!
No, it was a weighted lottery based upon every team's previous five seasons.

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Old
02-28-2009, 09:51 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danyhabsfan View Post
Did you like Bégin?
I really didn't notice Begin because Tippet is a moron who couldn't stay with a stable 4th line throughout the game. I'm sure he played with at least four other guys. Basically the whole game outside of our top line was a cluster**** and it was hard to judge him.

I will say Sutherby set him up for a nice one timer, on which Giguere made a really good save. So he was fine. I have no doubt had he been on the ice he would have had Ott's back. None of the other ******* on the ice did so that would have been nice.

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Old
02-28-2009, 09:51 PM
  #35
Kritter471
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Quote:
Originally Posted by justheducks View Post
Why would Giguere get any suspension?
He hit Ott with his blocker because Ott was cross checking Niedermayer for no real reason because with less then 3 seconds left wouldnt you just go straight to the net instead of cross checking a player from behind? That is just stupid on Ott part. Also Ott being suspended has little to do with his altercation with Giguere it is because he supposedly jab Moen's eye during the fight which if is true is deserving of a suspension. If not and there is no evidence then no suspensions should be dealt out.
To be honest, Ott deserves to have gotten his rear end handled to him on a platter by Moen because he has been running his mouth and giving out cheap shots and hasn't stepped up to any fights because of his hand injury. If you can't fight because of an injury then don't go around acting like your tough **** when your not.
Are we really gonna start this again?

Ott cross-checked Niedermayer in front of the net as part of setting up a screen and as part of trying to get Niedermayer to pay attention to him instead of the play. It's a play that happens 50 times a game. It's annoying but not unusual and not even among the worst things he did this game. Heck, Niedermayer didn't even react. Giguere went nuts for no good reason and started a fight.

I think Giguere should be suspended because he instigated a fight after the game was over. I think Ott should get one game for accidentally (he says) getting Moen in the eye with his casted hand and more if they can prove intent. One game for both would be great for me.

And Ott is playing through an injury but playing the only way he knows how. I think guys who play with multiple screws and a plate, and risk re-injury while they're playing, shouldn't be told to play a "certain way" because they piss other players off too much. That's the Ducks' problem, not Ott's. He's playing with what the referees are allowing, though to say it's clean would be a lie. The Ducks are the one who has a problem, not Ott or the refs.

Hell, to make up for the cross checks, the two teams play next week. Giguere should have said "screw it" and had Parros come lay Ott out on Friday early in the game. That's the way to handle this, not instigating a fight with a guy who can't fight back.

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Old
02-28-2009, 09:55 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chad_ View Post
No, it was a weighted lottery based upon every team's previous five seasons.
Thinking back on it I am again forced to agree with Kritter. (damn everyone) The NHL ****ed over a lot of teams not least of which was Dallas with that "weighted" system thing. Detroit got a better pick than us. As did Anaheim, New Jersey, Edmonton, Calgary, and a host of others. Dallas got stuck with the 28th pick. Brutal.

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Old
02-28-2009, 09:59 PM
  #37
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Was Burke already with the Ducks at that point? Can I use that as part of the fuel to the theory that the lottery was completely rigged?

HF - hee! I will get you to come to the dark side eventually. And I'll work on the Sydor thing once I get over the blinding idiocy of some fans on the main board.

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Old
02-28-2009, 10:00 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danyhabsfan View Post
Did you like Bégin?
He didn't really play enough to make any difference. He did have a nice hit and didn't do anything wrong at least. The lines were poorly conceived and implemented today.

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Old
02-28-2009, 10:05 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hull Fan View Post
Thinking back on it I am again forced to agree with Kritter. (damn everyone) The NHL ****ed over a lot of teams not least of which was Dallas with that "weighted" system thing. Detroit got a better pick than us. As did Anaheim, New Jersey, Edmonton, Calgary, and a host of others. Dallas got stuck with the 28th pick. Brutal.
I didn't like it at the time and I still don't. It rewarded teams sucking for years even with an eventual tide turn, using the same formula suggesting teams with high picks improve, and penalized teams that performed well but could be in for a drop off following the institution of the cap.

The only thing different, other than using five seasons of data to weight the draft, is they 'snaked' the draft in an effort to even things out since, you know, the 31st pick in the draft is the same as the first.

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02-28-2009, 10:13 PM
  #40
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Watching Ott get hammered and knowing he couldn't throw punches was bad. As has been brought up at various places I do think someone should have jumped in. Very disappointing. That being said it was Mo, Ribs, Lehts, Robidas, Loui on the ice with Ott. Who should have jumped in? Only one who is at all physical is Robidas. that being said Robi hasn't been in a fight since 2007, when he was in 2 and got his ass handed to him both times. Also 3rd man in would most certainly be suspended as well, but frankly at this point does that even really matter? Instead they let Ott fend for himself, take the punches, get the suspension, and who knows if his hand is ok?

Here is Tippett's comments about it per DMN:
Quote:
I saw five of their guys jumping on one of ours, which is disappointing to see one guy having to fight all five of their's.
And Razor's comments from his blog:
http://blog.dallasstars.com/archives...buzzer_fa.html
Quote:
I'll guarantee you if Morrow was healthy he would have been on the ice and he would have intervened - same goes for a few others. Just look at Trevor Daley coming to Loui Eriksson's aid earlier in the game as an example. Although I don't agree with fighting a guy for a hard heavy hit I do hold coming to a teammates aid in high regard.

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Old
02-28-2009, 10:17 PM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kritter471 View Post
Are we really gonna start this again?

Ott cross-checked Niedermayer in front of the net as part of setting up a screen and as part of trying to get Niedermayer to pay attention to him instead of the play. It's a play that happens 50 times a game. It's annoying but not unusual and not even among the worst things he did this game. Heck, Niedermayer didn't even react. Giguere went nuts for no good reason and started a fight.

I think Giguere should be suspended because he instigated a fight after the game was over. I think Ott should get one game for accidentally (he says) getting Moen in the eye with his casted hand and more if they can prove intent. One game for both would be great for me.

And Ott is playing through an injury but playing the only way he knows how. I think guys who play with multiple screws and a plate, and risk re-injury while they're playing, shouldn't be told to play a "certain way" because they piss other players off too much. That's the Ducks' problem, not Ott's. He's playing with what the referees are allowing, though to say it's clean would be a lie. The Ducks are the one who has a problem, not Ott or the refs.

Hell, to make up for the cross checks, the two teams play next week. Giguere should have said "screw it" and had Parros come lay Ott out on Friday early in the game. That's the way to handle this, not instigating a fight with a guy who can't fight back.
If that was the case if Goalies were suspended for altercations then Turco would only play about 30 games season.
Watch the video 3 vicious cross checks to the back and even one attempt after the whistle blew. He was not clearing out Niedermayer and it really was unnecessary and Ott should have been crashing the net instead and trying to setup a screen. It is not like Ott is a quiet non aggressive player. He gets under other people's skin and it came back to bite him this time. Jiggy was standing up for his teammate and good friend. If it was the same situation but Turco was involved with Pronger, you guys wouldn't be calling for any suspensions for Turco and wanting Pronger's head.
Ott got what he deserved and Moen handed him a whooping.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4bmAiuaRKow

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Old
02-28-2009, 10:22 PM
  #42
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All this suspension talk made me think of Avery.

Do you realize that Avery would have received a less harsh suspension if he had just attacked Phaneuf with a flying elbow with intent to injure?

Brenden Witt only got 5 for his vicious hit on Hagman. Avery was essentially suspended for 2 months after being relegated to the NHL Behavior program for saying a girl was sexually active.

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Old
02-28-2009, 10:29 PM
  #43
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Honestly I was a little surprised that Ribs didn't step up and fight someone or at least attempt to separate Ott. Hell, he did everything else. You know he at least cares unlike Modano.

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Old
02-28-2009, 10:31 PM
  #44
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All any of the guys on the ice had to do was go hug Moen and pull him off Ott. I don't expect Jere to start throwing punches. I'd almost have to ask if Eriksson even knows how. Again the two fights Niskanen has been in he got his ass kicked but he could have at least pulled Moen off.

That's disappointing and again it forces me to agree with someone I can't stand. Tippet in this case was right. Monday Dallas should have a bag skate. I don't care if you aren't a fighter. You cannot stand by while your guy is getting his ass kicked when you know he can't fight back. That's bush league and an embarrassment to the organization.

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02-28-2009, 10:31 PM
  #45
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The strangest part of the Avery suspension was not the length, as we've seen it's a virtual dartboard in Campbell's office he aims at during shots of tequila, rather that part of the sentence was for Avery having a history. That was his first suspension. Witt's hit was brutal and far worse than Bettman having to explain words to his daughter, or just cast it aside and tell her to ask mommy.

'Justtheducks,' I'm not sure what world you live in, but I hardly see the logic behind you criticizing Ott for "acting like [he's] tough **** when [he's] not" and then praising Moen for fighting a guy who can't fight due to injury, hitting him before he's even turned to face him and then exaggerating an 'eye gouge' to the point where we must assume Ott has tiny, tiny fingers and was able to get those petite digits behind his eyeball and pull. That's not tough.

I don't fault Gigeure for doing what he did, nor Ott for what he did, nor even Moen for what he did. It's all a hockey play and happens often enough it's neither shocking or really unexpected. However, the venom directed towards Ott is just ridiculous. This is a guy who is allegedly a cheap shot artist and one of the dirtiest players in the game but has now been suspended for a total of three games in his career (I assume more days tacked on during Monday's meeting). How does that happen?

And yeah, it was ridiculous the Stars players just stood by and, if nothing else, didn't break the circle created by Ducks players around the 'fight.'

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02-28-2009, 10:35 PM
  #46
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Your definition of vicious needs some work.

Turco is definitely a punk and I do not appreciate some of the extracurricular activities he does. But I haven't seen him mug a player and start a fight that he won't himself finish. Belfour got suspended several times for going after skaters. Turco should when he does (I remember a particularly vicious clothesline from a few years back), and Giguere deserves it here.

The real coward in that whole sequence was Giguere, for both mugging a guy who wasn't expecting it and can't fight right now, then wanting someone else to fight for him. At least if Turco jumps someone, I bet he'd try to fight himself.

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02-28-2009, 10:37 PM
  #47
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I think two things probably prevented Stars from jumping in.

A.) The Ducks had a relatively goonish lineup. The first guy to jump to Ott's defense was going to get Pronger, and that would not end well.

B.) Fear of suspension for starting a line-brawl after the buzzer.

I hate it, but I also understand it, particularly given the lineup that was out there. By the time anyone realized what was going on, Ott and Moen were already squared up.

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02-28-2009, 10:38 PM
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hull Fan View Post
All any of the guys on the ice had to do was go hug Moen and pull him off Ott. I don't expect Jere to start throwing punches. I'd almost have to ask if Eriksson even knows how. Again the two fights Niskanen has been in he got his ass kicked but he could have at least pulled Moen off.

That's disappointing and again it forces me to agree with someone I can't stand. Tippet in this case was right. Monday Dallas should have a bag skate. I don't care if you aren't a fighter. You cannot stand by while your guy is getting his ass kicked when you know he can't fight back. That's bush league and an embarrassment to the organization.
Niskanen wasn't on the ice for the last 3 seconds, he was pulled off in favor of 5 forwards with Robidas being the lone defenseman. That being said I bet he would have, he took a beating for Avery surely he would have for Otter.

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02-28-2009, 10:42 PM
  #49
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I kinda wish Daley was on the ice for that. He woulda jumped in and summarily gotten pummeled by Pronger, but he would have jumped in at least.

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02-28-2009, 10:46 PM
  #50
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I didn't get to watch the game but why did Grossman not take a shift in the last 6 minutes?

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