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The problem with this team

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Old
03-01-2009, 02:09 PM
  #1
Mustafa*
 
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The problem with this team

Naturaly the title is a bit of a joke. But there's something i'd like to point out, it includes Higgins, the Kostytsyns, Tanguay and Lats.

All those guys have been underperforming this year, seriously underperforming for some of them, slightly for some of them. I think it has become a huge problem to have some of your best offensive players underperforming to this point of the season, seriously if only half of those names starts playing like they should be, i will like the chances of this team.

Higgins and Lats are/were trying hard and playing a good overall games, but they dont score, we need them to score that's what we want from them. The day those two will start scoring we'll be in business.

Andreď is starting to look like a floater that just rely on his talent, sure he has the best shot on the team, but how can a guy give up on every battles all the time? How can such a talented guy be playing so uninspired? Is he still hiting opponents? Sergeď is just playing realy bad hockey and dont have the skillset of his brother to balance.

Tanguay was playing realy great hockey when he was with Koivu but prior to his injury he started to disapear. He was still playing good hockey but his production was less and less important. If this guy come back and realy want to play hockey he might be our biggest offensive threat.

And i'm not talking about Price, Komo, Brisebois and Hamrlik who are also not reliable. I just wanted to talk about the offensive players of the Habs, this team would be a real threat with those guy starts playing colser to their potential.

PS: I know that Lats and Tanguay are injured, no need topoint it out, it doesn't change anything to what i said.

PpS: no need to bring the captain obvious things. I know it's obvious, it's for constructive conversation sake.

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03-01-2009, 04:50 PM
  #2
Qui Gon Dave
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mustafa View Post
Andreď is starting to look like a floater that just rely on his talent, sure he has the best shot on the team, but how can a guy give up on every battles all the time? How can such a talented guy be playing so uninspired? Is he still hiting opponents?
Andrei can play much better, we have all seen what he can do this year when on. He does have to step up more. But while he can do better (and needs to start soon), some people need to give the kid props for what he does.

Relying on his talent? One of the things we can count on him for this year is to be in front of the net. It isn't a 'skilled' job, but he does it every game. He could stick on the perimiter and wait for the puck to go to him, but he doesn't (well, not always). Despite being a 'skill' guy, he does the hard work out front. What excuse does everyone else have?

Is he still hitting? 7 hits in the last 5 games according to the stats (Komi has 11 in that time, Lappy has 4, Kostop has 12, Koivu 1, Kovalev 4 for example). He's doing okay for hits. He could hit more, but he is doing his part.

As for playing uninspired, it has looked the case in a number of regards during the past few games, but I liked what I saw from him in the last 7-8 mins last night. I mentioned it in the PGT, don't know if anyone else cottoned on to it but there was a change in the strategy of his line.

Since Kovalev came back, when that line forechecks, it's been Kovalev skating after the puck, which frankly makes no sense. Carbo uses Kovy on the PK, partly because he can read the game, but pressumably also because he trusts his positioning defensively. A.Kost doesn't get PK time in part because his defensive game could use some work. So why, at even strength, is Kovalev, the slower, less likely to hit forward chasing the puck while A.Kost, the less defensively sound player playing a positional game?

I assume it was a call from one of the coaches but in the last 7-8 mins of the game last night, they switched roles. Kovy was the one hanging in the neutral zone, playing a positional game while Andrei chased the puck carrier, and based on a very limited sample of a handful of shifts, it looked like it worked. Andrei skated harder than he has in a while and finally looked alive thanks to his forechecking. And after that, he stepped his game up a little more in other areas. I don't know if that will continue, but if that line stays together, I can't see many benefits of switching it back to how it was. If any of the coaches came up with that one, looks like a very good call.

I fully admit I am an A.Kost apologist. I've been wanting to see him used on the right wing since the mid point of the 05-06 season. However, I do have to say, he needs to find some aspect of his game to make a stronger contribution to this line he keeps ending up on. That said, he does deserve some credit for some of the little things he does that few are willing to acknowledge IMO. It works both ways.

Tanguay, I'm not worried about. Lats, if he plays like he did before he got hurt, I also have no problems with. Higgins could do with finding some productive form but he seems to be a streaky kind of guy so with his work rate, you gotta figure it'll work for him sooner or later.

There was one thing I think you missed (for whatever reason) in your post though. You target Lats, Higgins and the Kostitsyn's who, while they are an important part of the team, are also the future of the team. We have 4 big time, vet forwards and if healthy, we would turn to them in times of trouble. But Lang is done for the year. Tanguay has been injured a lot of the time. Kovalev is inconsistent and Koivu can only carry so much of the load. And so we are forced to look to the kids to step up. Now fair enough, some of them have enough experince in the NHL to hopefully be better and there are times when they should flat out be better, but there is no alternative to experience. The fact we are forced to rely so much on these guys is an issue in itself. And with the extra pressures this season has placed on the team, we shouldn't be too surprised if the younger guys get overwhelmed at times, especially Sergei.

Hopefully the recent adversity has brought the team closer together and we see them gel down the stretch. That will be the acid test. As it is, we need almost all our forwards to raise their games further, not just the guys focused upon in the original post IMO.

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03-01-2009, 05:09 PM
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It's not right to say Tanguay's been an under-performer this year. Yes he wasn't playing well when we went down, but overall he was having a more than decent year up to that point.

And I know he's been much better lately, but was there a bigger underachiever on the team in the first half than Pleks? (Aside from Kovy. He's just not comparable to anybody.)

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03-01-2009, 05:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Qui Gon Dave View Post
Andrei can play much better, we have all seen what he can do this year when on. He does have to step up more. But while he can do better (and needs to start soon), some people need to give the kid props for what he does.

Relying on his talent? One of the things we can count on him for this year is to be in front of the net. It isn't a 'skilled' job, but he does it every game. He could stick on the perimiter and wait for the puck to go to him, but he doesn't (well, not always). Despite being a 'skill' guy, he does the hard work out front. What excuse does everyone else have?

Is he still hitting? 7 hits in the last 5 games according to the stats (Komi has 11 in that time, Lappy has 4, Kostop has 12, Koivu 1, Kovalev 4 for example). He's doing okay for hits. He could hit more, but he is doing his part.

As for playing uninspired, it has looked the case in a number of regards during the past few games, but I liked what I saw from him in the last 7-8 mins last night. I mentioned it in the PGT, don't know if anyone else cottoned on to it but there was a change in the strategy of his line.

Since Kovalev came back, when that line forechecks, it's been Kovalev skating after the puck, which frankly makes no sense. Carbo uses Kovy on the PK, partly because he can read the game, but pressumably also because he trusts his positioning defensively. A.Kost doesn't get PK time in part because his defensive game could use some work. So why, at even strength, is Kovalev, the slower, less likely to hit forward chasing the puck while A.Kost, the less defensively sound player playing a positional game?

I assume it was a call from one of the coaches but in the last 7-8 mins of the game last night, they switched roles. Kovy was the one hanging in the neutral zone, playing a positional game while Andrei chased the puck carrier, and based on a very limited sample of a handful of shifts, it looked like it worked. Andrei skated harder than he has in a while and finally looked alive thanks to his forechecking. And after that, he stepped his game up a little more in other areas. I don't know if that will continue, but if that line stays together, I can't see many benefits of switching it back to how it was. If any of the coaches came up with that one, looks like a very good call.

I fully admit I am an A.Kost apologist. I've been wanting to see him used on the right wing since the mid point of the 05-06 season. However, I do have to say, he needs to find some aspect of his game to make a stronger contribution to this line he keeps ending up on. That said, he does deserve some credit for some of the little things he does that few are willing to acknowledge IMO. It works both ways.

Tanguay, I'm not worried about. Lats, if he plays like he did before he got hurt, I also have no problems with. Higgins could do with finding some productive form but he seems to be a streaky kind of guy so with his work rate, you gotta figure it'll work for him sooner or later.

There was one thing I think you missed (for whatever reason) in your post though. You target Lats, Higgins and the Kostitsyn's who, while they are an important part of the team, are also the future of the team. We have 4 big time, vet forwards and if healthy, we would turn to them in times of trouble. But Lang is done for the year. Tanguay has been injured a lot of the time. Kovalev is inconsistent and Koivu can only carry so much of the load. And so we are forced to look to the kids to step up. Now fair enough, some of them have enough experince in the NHL to hopefully be better and there are times when they should flat out be better, but there is no alternative to experience. The fact we are forced to rely so much on these guys is an issue in itself. And with the extra pressures this season has placed on the team, we shouldn't be too surprised if the younger guys get overwhelmed at times, especially Sergei.

Hopefully the recent adversity has brought the team closer together and we see them gel down the stretch. That will be the acid test. As it is, we need almost all our forwards to raise their games further, not just the guys focused upon in the original post IMO.
Great post QGD as usual.

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03-01-2009, 05:22 PM
  #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mustafa View Post
Andreď is starting to look like a floater that just rely on his talent, sure he has the best shot on the team, but how can a guy give up on every battles all the time? How can such a talented guy be playing so uninspired? Is he still hiting opponents? Sergeď is just playing realy bad hockey and dont have the skillset of his brother to balance.
Hmmm... How familiar does that sound? Mentorship issue perhaps?

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03-01-2009, 05:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Qui Gon Dave View Post
Andrei can play much better, we have all seen what he can do this year when on. He does have to step up more. But while he can do better (and needs to start soon), some people need to give the kid props for what he does.

Relying on his talent? One of the things we can count on him for this year is to be in front of the net. It isn't a 'skilled' job, but he does it every game. He could stick on the perimiter and wait for the puck to go to him, but he doesn't (well, not always). Despite being a 'skill' guy, he does the hard work out front. What excuse does everyone else have?

Is he still hitting? 7 hits in the last 5 games according to the stats (Komi has 11 in that time, Lappy has 4, Kostop has 12, Koivu 1, Kovalev 4 for example). He's doing okay for hits. He could hit more, but he is doing his part.

As for playing uninspired, it has looked the case in a number of regards during the past few games, but I liked what I saw from him in the last 7-8 mins last night. I mentioned it in the PGT, don't know if anyone else cottoned on to it but there was a change in the strategy of his line.

Since Kovalev came back, when that line forechecks, it's been Kovalev skating after the puck, which frankly makes no sense. Carbo uses Kovy on the PK, partly because he can read the game, but pressumably also because he trusts his positioning defensively. A.Kost doesn't get PK time in part because his defensive game could use some work. So why, at even strength, is Kovalev, the slower, less likely to hit forward chasing the puck while A.Kost, the less defensively sound player playing a positional game?

I assume it was a call from one of the coaches but in the last 7-8 mins of the game last night, they switched roles. Kovy was the one hanging in the neutral zone, playing a positional game while Andrei chased the puck carrier, and based on a very limited sample of a handful of shifts, it looked like it worked. Andrei skated harder than he has in a while and finally looked alive thanks to his forechecking. And after that, he stepped his game up a little more in other areas. I don't know if that will continue, but if that line stays together, I can't see many benefits of switching it back to how it was. If any of the coaches came up with that one, looks like a very good call.

I fully admit I am an A.Kost apologist. I've been wanting to see him used on the right wing since the mid point of the 05-06 season. However, I do have to say, he needs to find some aspect of his game to make a stronger contribution to this line he keeps ending up on. That said, he does deserve some credit for some of the little things he does that few are willing to acknowledge IMO. It works both ways.

Tanguay, I'm not worried about. Lats, if he plays like he did before he got hurt, I also have no problems with. Higgins could do with finding some productive form but he seems to be a streaky kind of guy so with his work rate, you gotta figure it'll work for him sooner or later.

There was one thing I think you missed (for whatever reason) in your post though. You target Lats, Higgins and the Kostitsyn's who, while they are an important part of the team, are also the future of the team. We have 4 big time, vet forwards and if healthy, we would turn to them in times of trouble. But Lang is done for the year. Tanguay has been injured a lot of the time. Kovalev is inconsistent and Koivu can only carry so much of the load. And so we are forced to look to the kids to step up. Now fair enough, some of them have enough experince in the NHL to hopefully be better and there are times when they should flat out be better, but there is no alternative to experience. The fact we are forced to rely so much on these guys is an issue in itself. And with the extra pressures this season has placed on the team, we shouldn't be too surprised if the younger guys get overwhelmed at times, especially Sergei.

Hopefully the recent adversity has brought the team closer together and we see them gel down the stretch. That will be the acid test. As it is, we need almost all our forwards to raise their games further, not just the guys focused upon in the original post IMO.
I agree with most of what you said, i always enjoy your posts, Andreď is actuly the most beautiful hockey player on the team, apart from his defensive game, he,s everything i hope to see in a hockey player. I'm realy excited to have him for years to come, even if he leaves the Habs the NHL will have a good player to promote their league (is that enough praising?). But A Kost isn't always after the puck, this player should always be around the puck, he should always be a threat on the ice, every oponents should have their head up when his line is on the ice... since the slump he just show flashes, you dont see him in the whole game and at some point he end up with the puck and shoot it on the net as easy as it gets, to put a goal for the Habs. He shoudl never stop skating and he should battle harder for the puck, i mean he would be so dominant.

But yeah the main reason of this thread is about good players who are playing just good enough, if we want to go further they should upgrade their game a bit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bullsmith View Post
It's not right to say Tanguay's been an under-performer this year. Yes he wasn't playing well when we went down, but overall he was having a more than decent year up to that point.

And I know he's been much better lately, but was there a bigger underachiever on the team in the first half than Pleks? (Aside from Kovy. He's just not comparable to anybody.)
Yes i said some are slightly underperforming, i meant all the players in the list. Actualy my thread isn't clear, i wanted to call out player that are just playing good enough. When they should be playing better than that, closer to their potential, that's how the Bruins, the Sharks and the Wings got so succesful.

I Didn't mention Kovalev or Plecs because they seems to be turning their season around, and the point of calling them out would have useless.

Koivu is playing to his potential.


Last edited by Habs10Habs: 03-01-2009 at 11:13 PM.
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03-01-2009, 05:56 PM
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Hmmm... How familiar does that sound? Mentorship issue perhaps?
About 3/4 of your posts say that. I think we got the point.

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03-01-2009, 05:56 PM
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I wonder if maybe something happened at the All Star Game that may have affected some of the players that were part of the festivities.

Price has not played at all since.
Kovalev was the ASG player of the game and came back with the wrong attitude
Komisarek has not been good
Markov is just now starting to look good again

All Star game maybe have something to do with it?

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03-01-2009, 05:59 PM
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About 3/4 of your posts say that. I think we got the point.
You should learn math.

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03-01-2009, 06:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Asterix View Post
Hmmm... How familiar does that sound? Mentorship issue perhaps?
Andrei has been playing better hockey now than when he was scoring. His defensive game has improved, he is assisting his linemates, he is working harder for the puck, he is checking more and he is working in front of the net to open up his linemates. That's the Andrei Kostitsyn I love.

We're slowly getting closer to the Andrei we had last season in the playoffs.

I think there might be a reason for that. He got his mentor back.

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03-01-2009, 06:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Lone Rogue View Post
Andrei has been playing better hockey now than when he was scoring. His defensive game has improved, he is assisting his linemates, he is working harder for the puck, he is checking more and he is working in front of the net to open up his linemates. That's the Andrei Kostitsyn I love.

We're slowly getting closer to the Andrei we had last season in the playoffs.

I think there might be a reason for that. He got his mentor back.
Stats show otherwise but whatever... only until Wednesday or the end of this season. Then we'll see the true Andrei.

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03-01-2009, 06:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Mustafa View Post
Andreď is starting to look like a floater that just rely on his talent, sure he has the best shot on the team, but how can a guy give up on every battles all the time? How can such a talented guy be playing so uninspired? Is he still hiting opponents?
If its sarcasm, then I understand your post, but how can you write this about Andrei and NOTHING about Aliocha?!?

Anyway, nevermind, I won't come back to this thread.

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03-01-2009, 06:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Asterix View Post
Stats show otherwise but whatever... only until Wednesday or the end of this season. Then we'll see the true Andrei.
Every point I made was about what Andrei was doing outside of the scoreboard. He went from being almost useless for an entire hockey game with one big opportunity that would get the puck in the net (Remind you of someone? Michael Ryder?) to now ensuring that his linemates get the work done through hard work and determination.

Like many, I'd prefer that work to be done by Patches and Andrei to play on a different line, but with Robert Lang out, he doesn't have that Top 9 system to work in.

Andrei doesn't need to be on the scoreboard. If he is doing the work to give Tomas Plekanec and Alex Kovalev the points, that's great. You know why? BECAUSE THEN THE TEAM WINS.

If you actually knew what a team was, you'd understand.

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03-01-2009, 06:21 PM
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I agree with most of what you said, i always enjoy your posts, Andreď is actuly the most beautiful hockey player on the team, apart from his defensive game, he,s everything i hope to see in a hockey player. I'm realy excited to have him for years to come, even if he leaves the Habs the NHL will have a good player to promote their league (is that enough praising?). But A Kost isn't always after the puck, this player should always be around the puck, he should always be a threat on the ice, every oponents should have their head up when his line is on the ice... since the slump he just show flashes, you dont see him in the whole game and at some point he end up with the puck and shoot it on the net as easy as it gets, to put a goal for the Habs. He shoudl never stop skating and he should battle harder for the puck, i mean he would be so dominant.

But yeah the main reason of this thread is about good players who are playing just good enough, if we want to go further they should upgrade their game a bit.

Well, as QGD mentionned, Akost switched roles with Kovy a the end of the game, but I still think he's a very poor forechecker in general. He doesn't use his stick well to block the passing lanes and his stick work to steal the puck from an opponent is very underpar IMO. For exemple, Higgins will often cause a player to make a bad move or loose the puck by simply hitting the stick of his opponent. This is a play I rarely see Andrei make since he gets close to the players but doesn't keep an active stick. Andrei will however finish his checks sometimes which his something Higgins almost never does.


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03-01-2009, 06:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Kafka View Post
If its sarcasm, then I understand your post, but how can you write this about Andrei and NOTHING about Aliocha?!?

Anyway, nevermind, I won't come back to this thread.
Aliocha is a little good for nothing wanna be monk, if he would stop with all his love and understanding he would leave his fathers house and never speak to his brothers ever again, but it would make a bad story, and i like good stories.

And no it wasn't sarcasm, sorry.

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03-01-2009, 06:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Lone Rogue View Post
If you actually knew what a team was, you'd understand.
Now now... those are big words...

The TEAM would be better without. It's a matter of opinion. In spite of your nasty petty remark, I still respect your opinion and it's no worse nor better than mine. I happened to have captained 3 hockey teams BTW.

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03-01-2009, 08:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Asterix View Post
Now now... those are big words...

The TEAM would be better without. It's a matter of opinion. In spite of your nasty petty remark, I still respect your opinion and it's no worse nor better than mine. I happened to have captained 3 hockey teams BTW.
Did your dad coach the team?

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03-01-2009, 08:32 PM
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Did your dad coach the team?
I think he said earlier that his sister was coaching and his mother would replace her from time to time.

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03-01-2009, 08:33 PM
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the more i keep thinking about this PROBLEM with our team or so called problem many think we have .


Did we have a problem last year at game 63 with 75 pts ? NO heck everyone was happy .

this year game 63 and 75 pts again and depression sets in ?


We just did it different this year and we in the exact same postion as last which is fine with me .for me i dont care how we get there just get hot last 5-8 games of the season and roll into the playoffs . Then get hot see what happens from there .

Maybe more of a fans problem


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03-01-2009, 08:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Asterix View Post
Now now... those are big words...

The TEAM would be better without. It's a matter of opinion. In spite of your nasty petty remark, I still respect your opinion and it's no worse nor better than mine. I happened to have captained 3 hockey teams BTW.
As a goalie?

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03-01-2009, 08:53 PM
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As a goalie?
I was asking myself the same question, but who knows

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03-01-2009, 09:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Lord Chezz View Post
Did your dad coach the team?
Nope.

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Originally Posted by Blades 0f Steel View Post
As a goalie?
I only started playing goal 20 years ago or so.

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03-01-2009, 09:31 PM
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Nope.


I only started playing goal 20 years ago or so.
Asterix is Cristobal Huet ?

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03-01-2009, 09:34 PM
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The problem with this team is...it's soft as a Bounce sheet.

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03-01-2009, 09:39 PM
  #25
Artyukhin*
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deandebean View Post
The problem with this team is...it's soft as a Bounce sheet.
i dunno bout that.

same team as last year add stewart who is able to stick up for himself in the middle weight class and George Laraque in the Heavy.

Then for playoffs Henry who will fight heavys should be available , so if it does get ruff like last year i think we got the troops this year to send in to take care of biz .

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