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Old
04-19-2009, 09:45 PM
  #51
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Originally Posted by slanted View Post
No, because I have nothing against the KHL. And don't see how anyone can dispute that the NHL isn't superior. Which draws the conclusion that one must be european and or have some sort of bias.
When talking about par. If he left the NHL and went to the KHL then we're talking about whether or not the average player in the NHL is better than the average player in the KHL. Which I don't see as an argument. If the KHL was .01% better than the NHL than the huge contracts offered would have OV, Malkin etc jumping to go back and play at the highest level the world has to offer. but they're not. so sup-par is a perfect description of the KHL.

we're talking proffesioal hockey 98% of the players in those leagues won't see 1 minute in a pro setting, but since the question is asked I'll take the OHL player first then the Q player since 60% of NHL hockey players and the majority of international metals are from canada. And I believe by far the best drafting league is the O.
First off, thrillhous never said the KHL was as good or better than the NHL. He simply disputed your calling it "sub-par" when it's still far better than most leagues and at least equal to, if not better than, every other league that's not the NHL. You're holding par as the caliber of the NHL. But the NHL is not an average league. That's like setting the bar for golfers at Tiger Woods. By comparison all other golfers are terrible. But that's not the case because par is not set at the best, but rather the average.

and as far as those players:

A = Alexander Ovechkin

B = Simon Gamache

C = Anze Kopitar

D = David Legwand

E = Dany Heatley

So yeah. Ovechkin only recorded 27 points in 37 games in a league that was worse than the KHL is now. He's a lemon just like Radulov, right? Keep in mind that just 1 season after that 37 points was when he made his NHL debut and netted 101 points in his first full season here. Kopitar also vastly outperformed his SEL totals in the next season, getting 61 points as a rookie in LA. Meanwhile that 80 point season has only mean a career best 63 points for Legwand, and a career average that's closer to the mid 40s.

The point is that you can't just look at the point totals of another league and make judgements on a player's impact or suitability or probable success in the NHL based on that. Otherwise it would've been Ovechkin putting up numbers like Gamache, and Simon would've done what Mikko Koivu did just prior to getting drafted, when he got less than 5 points in the Finnish league season.

Yeah, Radulov's totals aren't impressive by NHL standards, but you simply can't apply NHL standards to them. In the grand scheme of things, they're pretty good for the KHL. Evgeni Malkin's last RSL season was barely a point per game. Pavel Datsyuk's lockout season with Moscow Dynamo was 35 points in 47 games. Jagr's season in the KHL had him get 53pts in 55gp. Seeing a pattern? Damn good players are putting up numbers not a whole lot different than Radulov did in this league that you have deemed sub-par.

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Old
04-19-2009, 10:13 PM
  #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Nemesis View Post
First off, thrillhous never said the KHL was as good or better than the NHL. He simply disputed your calling it "sub-par" when it's still far better than most leagues and at least equal to, if not better than, every other league that's not the NHL. You're holding par as the caliber of the NHL. But the NHL is not an average league. That's like setting the bar for golfers at Tiger Woods. By comparison all other golfers are terrible. But that's not the case because par is not set at the best, but rather the average.

and as far as those players:

A = Alexander Ovechkin

B = Simon Gamache

C = Anze Kopitar

D = David Legwand

E = Dany Heatley

So yeah. Ovechkin only recorded 27 points in 37 games in a league that was worse than the KHL is now. He's a lemon just like Radulov, right? Keep in mind that just 1 season after that 37 points was when he made his NHL debut and netted 101 points in his first full season here. Kopitar also vastly outperformed his SEL totals in the next season, getting 61 points as a rookie in LA. Meanwhile that 80 point season has only mean a career best 63 points for Legwand, and a career average that's closer to the mid 40s.

The point is that you can't just look at the point totals of another league and make judgements on a player's impact or suitability or probable success in the NHL based on that. Otherwise it would've been Ovechkin putting up numbers like Gamache, and Simon would've done what Mikko Koivu did just prior to getting drafted, when he got less than 5 points in the Finnish league season.

Yeah, Radulov's totals aren't impressive by NHL standards, but you simply can't apply NHL standards to them. In the grand scheme of things, they're pretty good for the KHL. Evgeni Malkin's last RSL season was barely a point per game. Pavel Datsyuk's lockout season with Moscow Dynamo was 35 points in 47 games. Jagr's season in the KHL had him get 53pts in 55gp. Seeing a pattern? Damn good players are putting up numbers not a whole lot different than Radulov did in this league that you have deemed sub-par.
No, wrong again...if you wanna talk golfing and tiger....the courses he plays on have different pars than your regular course which is why you have to keep the context of KHL and NHL. Now if I said every player in the KHL is sub-par to ovechkin your analogy would have merit, but I didn't. And when par is set..it's set for pros, How many KHL players could play in the NHL? 50.01%? if not sub-par. You take the best, take the average and you have the par.

I'm pretty sure I didn't simply dismiss radulov based on point totals my original post had other arguments which are conveniently dismissed now. And I would still take the O and Q player since mathematically my odds of getting the best one are greater than 50%.

Rads is a lemon.

And we have more than just KHL stats to look at, cause he did play a bit of NHL games. For the exact team we are predicting future success with.

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04-19-2009, 10:19 PM
  #53
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if the NHL = par, what league is better than par? par implies average. the NHL is not average.

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04-19-2009, 10:34 PM
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no 3rd or 4th man in penalties?

please allow me to re-iterate for the sticklers. Radulov's stats this season we're against a league of sub-par competition when looking in the context of the 2 leagues we are talking about, the KHL and NHL. I will retain my view that if the competition is sub-par then therefore the league is sub-par. My white flag is up...I'm done posting...Mark my words if Radulov plays in NSH next season it will be detrimental.

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04-19-2009, 10:52 PM
  #55
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I think you're just being a little dramatic. If Radulov doesn't work out in Nashville, then we trade him. Not that big a deal. But he needs some NHL playing time to increase his value

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04-19-2009, 10:57 PM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slanted View Post
no 3rd or 4th man in penalties?

please allow me to re-iterate for the sticklers. Radulov's stats this season we're against a league of sub-par competition when looking in the context of the 2 leagues we are talking about, the KHL and NHL. I will retain my view that if the competition is sub-par then therefore the league is sub-par. My white flag is up...I'm done posting...Mark my words if Radulov plays in NSH next season it will be detrimental.
I think you're being ridiculously presumptuous to say that "most fans" don't want Radulov back. You don't speak for "most fans" on this board, obviously, and certainly not for me.

And if Arnott is the top-notch captain he proclaims himself to be, he'll get over his little grudge quickly and recognize that Radulov is twice the scorer anyone else on the team is, and that begging Poile to sign someone else isn't likely to bear any fruit, so he should probably do the "leader" thing and make amends for the good of the team.

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Old
04-19-2009, 11:06 PM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slanted View Post

Rads is a lemon.
A lemon that could very easily score 30 goals in the NHL.

That's one sweet lemon.

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04-20-2009, 01:39 PM
  #58
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Ill have some lemonaide please

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Old
04-20-2009, 01:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barrytrotzsneck View Post
I think you're being ridiculously presumptuous to say that "most fans" don't want Radulov back. You don't speak for "most fans" on this board, obviously, and certainly not for me.

And if Arnott is the top-notch captain he proclaims himself to be, he'll get over his little grudge quickly and recognize that Radulov is twice the scorer anyone else on the team is, and that begging Poile to sign someone else isn't likely to bear any fruit, so he should probably do the "leader" thing and make amends for the good of the team.
You quoted the wrong post. So I won't blame you for misquoting me. And I'm fairly certain I've sifted through multitudes of posts on more than just this board, where people have stated more than distaste for rads and what he did. Have you ever played hockey? do you now? if so did one of your top players jump ship and leave you high and dry? I think arnott and others are right to feel the way they do. Hockey players have very close bonds with teammates.

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04-21-2009, 12:38 AM
  #60
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I would like to have him back.

If he comes back he'll have to build back all the trust he lost and prove to his teammates and the fans that he is back for good. So he will probably grow up and mature some and work harder than he ever has and probably score a lot more, which would totally benefit the Preds and get us more of the goal scoring that we really needed this season. And who knows how other players around the league feel, but if they take runs at him it's just going to get us more powerplays to work with, again benefiting the Preds.

If Rads came back and scored a hattrick in his first game back, I would be willing to bet that many of those that don't like him will start changing their minds.

If he wants to play in the NHL he has to come back here first so the players and fans might as well just suck it up for a while and find out whether he wants to be here in Nashville in the NHL or somewhere else in the NHL. And if it's just about not playing here in Nashville then he'll get sent on his way and all the "I hate Rads" group can throw their good riddance party. But if he wants to be here, then he's going to be here and everyone that hates him will just have to deal with it.

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04-21-2009, 02:40 PM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slanted View Post
You quoted the wrong post. So I won't blame you for misquoting me. And I'm fairly certain I've sifted through multitudes of posts on more than just this board, where people have stated more than distaste for rads and what he did. Have you ever played hockey? do you now? if so did one of your top players jump ship and leave you high and dry? I think arnott and others are right to feel the way they do. Hockey players have very close bonds with teammates.
I firmly believe if you are going to play this card, you should explain your history with the sport of hockey. Who did you play for and who are you currently playing for? I do think people that have played hockey at a high level (minimally professionally) may have insight into what this situation could do to a lockeroom. If you don't have an extensive hockey history, then I'm not sure playing this card is fair.

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04-21-2009, 03:02 PM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lugnut76 View Post
I firmly believe if you are going to play this card, you should explain your history with the sport of hockey. Who did you play for and who are you currently playing for? I do think people that have played hockey at a high level (minimally professionally) may have insight into what this situation could do to a lockeroom. If you don't have an extensive hockey history, then I'm not sure playing this card is fair.
I didn't feel inclined to even answer, since not only have I been playing hockey since long before slanted fell out of his mother, I'm not all misty-eyed with respect for Arnott and Dumont the way he is, either.

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04-21-2009, 03:50 PM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barrytrotzsneck View Post
I didn't feel inclined to even answer, since not only have I been playing hockey since long before slanted fell out of his mother, I'm not all misty-eyed with respect for Arnott and Dumont the way he is, either.
My post was in reference to slanted's comments. I don't think you have a responsbility to answer him, but if he can draw from his own hockey experience to shed more light on this then maybe those of us who have not played hockey professionally would better understand his position on the subject.

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Old
04-23-2009, 12:08 AM
  #64
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Nemesis - thank you for defending me. IMO Slanted simply doesn't get it but he is entitled to his view.

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05-05-2009, 03:38 PM
  #65
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I've played hockey games with teammates that I didn't like and played well with them, I'll even defend them to no end on the ice.

Rads made a mistake, he deserves another chance, Arnott has gotten second and 3rd chances too.

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05-06-2009, 05:05 PM
  #66
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Playing a few games once in awhile with a guy you don't like is one thing - going on the road for two weeks at a time and living in close proximity is another. The Preds have enough chemistry problems in the first three months of each season without throwing in a player who all the vets see as a traitor. Poile and Trotz are all about chemistry, that's why they hesitate to make moves at the trade deadlines- probably a very wise thing to do in that respect. If they keep Radulov and he ends up being an Avery-like cancer then it will be even harder to trade him during the season than it would be on June 26th.

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05-06-2009, 10:21 PM
  #67
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How has Radulov looked so far during the WHC?

I've only been able to check out the latest game against Belarus and his game looked pretty solid.

If anyone has had the opportunity to watch him this year in Russia and the WHC, please share.

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05-07-2009, 10:19 AM
  #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skipper49 View Post
Playing a few games once in awhile with a guy you don't like is one thing - going on the road for two weeks at a time and living in close proximity is another. The Preds have enough chemistry problems in the first three months of each season without throwing in a player who all the vets see as a traitor. Poile and Trotz are all about chemistry, that's why they hesitate to make moves at the trade deadlines- probably a very wise thing to do in that respect. If they keep Radulov and he ends up being an Avery-like cancer then it will be even harder to trade him during the season than it would be on June 26th.
Comparing Radulov to Avery is ludicrous. Radulov is a kid that took some bad advice, and has been visibly repentent about it at every turn. Avery is someone that's made a career out of outlandish statements, inexplicable antics, and average talent. Radulov is the best scorer that we have in the system, and likely the best scorer that we have EVER had in the system. We all know that Vernon Fiddler and Scott Nichol are great "team" guys, but we missed the playoffs because our scoring was far too inconsistent. That includes and in fact focuses on Arnott and Dumont, and to some extent Erat and Legwand.

Put it this way...do we really want to cater to the whims of two guys that aren't likely to be here, three years from now? Or build around the only superstar-caliber forward that we have ever had?

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05-12-2009, 01:01 PM
  #69
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I felt sick watching Radulov play in the Worlds. If Fassell wasn't so corrupt, Radulov wouldn't be on the ice.

I can't see him coming back, if his own teammates don't take a run or two others will. I didn't disagree with any of his celebrations over the first two years but if he pulls something like the above in the NHL, he'll be missing a few teeth. I really don't mind the stick thing, but I can't stand the arms in the air, look at me thing. Especially when you skate pass your teamates to finish your show.

I wonder how Weber, Hamuis and Trotz felt watching Radulov's display.

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05-12-2009, 01:28 PM
  #70
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I felt sick watching Radulov play in the Worlds. If Fassell wasn't so corrupt, Radulov wouldn't be on the ice.

I can't see him coming back, if his own teammates don't take a run or two others will. I didn't disagree with any of his celebrations over the first two years but if he pulls something like the above in the NHL, he'll be missing a few teeth. I really don't mind the stick thing, but I can't stand the arms in the air, look at me thing. Especially when you skate pass your teamates to finish your show.

I wonder how Weber, Hamuis and Trotz felt watching Radulov's display.
Doesn't bother me. He had just scored the game winning, gold medal winning goal in a game where his team was the under dog. The classy, Canadian head-nod and fist bump doesn't work here. And I enjoy his celebrations overall. The league and "traditionalists" worry so much about preserving "class" that it puts hockey in a situation in which all personality is sucked out of it. The game needs characters like Radulov, Ovechkin...even Tootoo and Avery.

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05-12-2009, 02:55 PM
  #71
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I've played hockey games with teammates that I didn't like and played well with them, I'll even defend them to no end on the ice.
and I appreciate it. I know everybody in the room hates me but I can't change the way I am just for you F___ers!!!!

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05-12-2009, 03:38 PM
  #72
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Lol xEx....you being Canadian has nothing to do with it right?

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05-12-2009, 06:40 PM
  #73
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I felt sick watching Radulov play in the Worlds. If Fassell wasn't so corrupt, Radulov wouldn't be on the ice.

I can't see him coming back, if his own teammates don't take a run or two others will. I didn't disagree with any of his celebrations over the first two years but if he pulls something like the above in the NHL, he'll be missing a few teeth. I really don't mind the stick thing, but I can't stand the arms in the air, look at me thing. Especially when you skate pass your teamates to finish your show.

I wonder how Weber, Hamuis and Trotz felt watching Radulov's display.
yet if it was say spezza doing that you wouldn't mind at all right?

ppl do that kinda thing all the time... get over it.. it was nothing and now has been over hyped by sookie Canadian fans who are sad they lost

I live in Canada ive gone for Canada all my life and i didnt mind it.. he spun his stick WOW!


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05-12-2009, 10:13 PM
  #74
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I'll put my bucks down to see stick twirling like that again in the Sommet if it follows a move and shot like that.... it would be like paying to watch Vern Fiddler, Wade Belak and Jerred Smithson.... only with a move.... a shot... and a celebration.

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05-13-2009, 01:56 AM
  #75
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David Poile was on 104.5 Tuesday afternoon. The 1st question was of course about Radulov.

He said that over in Switzerland he did meet with Radulov (it was the first face to face meeting since Rads left last summer). He said that Radulov talked with Suter, Wilson, Weber, Hamhuis almost everyday. I think he said that all the teams were in the same hotel or hotel complex and ate at the same place and all saw each other at the ice rinks since there were something like 8 locker rooms and they were pretty much all there at the same time.

Poile said Radulov had been in touch with some guys from the Preds team most of the year and had been keeping up with the Preds all season. Poile said they talked about last season, R/U-FAs, the direction of the team, the guys we drafted in '08, if Wilson would make the team, etc..

And Rads talked about Milwaukee being in the playoffs and following them, too.

Poile said he thinks Radulov has a lot to think about.


Also Poile said he will be meeting with Sully again soon and last time things were pretty positive. And Poile's going to be meeting with Trotz about R/U-FA's. They didn't get to have any meetings at the end of the season because Trotz was already gone to the Canadian camps for the WC.

---------------------------------------------------
So basically I took from this, if some of our "core" players are hanging out with Rads and some others were keeping in touch throughout this season, then they won't have much of a problem with Rads coming back this coming season. Some guys might hate what he did and may really try to lay him out or cuss him out on the ice in camp or sometime, but then once the games start will get over it. It almost seems that fans have taken it harder than some of the players did.




*Also, Shea Weber was named the WC's Best Dman!


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