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Patrice Bergeron & picks to Anaheim for Chris Pronger

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Old
03-03-2009, 08:15 PM
  #301
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****! Bergeron is one of my favorite players and I won't be able to cheer for him if he goes to Anaheim.

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03-03-2009, 08:16 PM
  #302
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hedgehog Hodgson View Post
He should be able to put up way higher point totals given the large amount of PP time he is granted, especially considering his salary. He is drastically underachieving offensively, why is that so hard to understand? On pace for 10 goals over 82 games is terrible.
Do you watch the Bruins? Or are you guessing?

He plays the point on the PP.

But yes, he is underachieving offensively... may have something to do with missing a season due to a concussion and being used now in a defensive role.

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03-03-2009, 08:24 PM
  #303
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kimota View Post
I wonder why the Ducks wants to trade Pronger. What's the point.
Cause according to ERICNUT, getting a guy that sucks and has a concusion problem is more valuable then Pronger... It's a no brainer, no

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03-03-2009, 08:32 PM
  #304
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kimota View Post
I wonder why the Ducks wants to trade Pronger. What's the point.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nikita Filatov View Post
I have the same question...
It actually does make a lot of sense. If the Ducks feel confident Scott is going to play another year, that is. You've got to think about the future. We're not able to compete with the better teams in the league right now with Pronger and we're facing either a rebuilding or retooling process. Our prospect pool isn't overwhelmingly deep. Except for a high end group of players (Getz, Perry, Ryan) there aren't many young players going to step up too soon. By trading Pronger now you can get most value back, e.g. that young roster player (at best a 2nd line center we've been looking for forever, therefore Bergeron...) and prospects, picks and it would give the management a little more flexibility going into offseason, where the Ducks in the past years didn't have a hard time attracting free agents.
To me it makes all the sense in the world.

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03-03-2009, 08:44 PM
  #305
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nikita Filatov View Post
You should either pay attention, or don't act like you know what's going on.

Bergeron came pretty close to dying on the ice that day... He took just a few months to get back on skates. He came back and got another concussion... Now he's playing the best hockey since he's been paired with Boyes.
That's the point. 2 concussions in, what, 1 calendar year? Not only will he be prone to more concussions, those concussions may take even longer to recover from every time he gets another one.

You can just dismiss it if you want, but the fact is, he's got to prove at this point that he can play significant time without getting another one.

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03-03-2009, 08:46 PM
  #306
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Originally Posted by Vipers31 View Post
It actually does make a lot of sense.
Trading your best defenseman who still has a year left on his contract over your 2nd best who is a UFA to be and who has done more pissing on the team than any other player makes no sense whatsoever. It makes me sick to my stomach to be honest.

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03-03-2009, 08:51 PM
  #307
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bonkers View Post
Trading your best defenseman who still has a year left on his contract over your 2nd best who is a UFA to be and who has done more pissing on the team than any other player makes no sense whatsoever. It makes me sick to my stomach to be honest.
If that's your feeling about it, so be it. I said the Ducks will probably only actually consider trading Pronger when they are certain (or close) that Scott will stay. I don't really care about the "pissing on the team" part. It was a unique situation. If I can choose one of Scott or Chris for next year, that would be Scotty. And I'm in favor of trading Pronger for the right price for the reasons I mentioned in the post that you left out...

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03-03-2009, 08:57 PM
  #308
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaoz View Post
Do you watch the Bruins? Or are you guessing?

He plays the point on the PP.

But yes, he is underachieving offensively... may have something to do with missing a season due to a concussion and being used now in a defensive role.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nikita Filatov View Post
PJ Axelsson. Wayne Gretzky would be dragged down to a 50 point player with this guy (obvious exaggeration)

If you don't watch him, don't judge him, please.
I don't really by the whole 'he is playing with scrubs so it is fine that he is putting up pathetic point totals' argument. Ask yourself, why is he playing with offensive scrubs? Its not like the Bruins are punishing him on purpose. If he was able to play well offensively with some of Boston's good offensive players, clearly he would be put there. There is a reason why he is playing with Axelsson, and that is because he hasn't played well offensively.

Furthermore, the fact that Bergeron plays on average, the second most powerplay time of Boston's forwards (excluding Sturm due to the small sample size,) at 3:06 minutes, and yet has put up an appallingly low 10 power play points. Thats 150 minutes, so about 1 point about every 15 minutes.

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03-03-2009, 09:05 PM
  #309
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hedgehog Hodgson View Post
I don't really by the whole 'he is playing with scrubs so it is fine that he is putting up pathetic point totals' argument. Ask yourself, why is he playing with offensive scrubs? Its not like the Bruins are punishing him on purpose. If he was able to play well offensively with some of Boston's good offensive players, clearly he would be put there. There is a reason why he is playing with Axelsson, and that is because he hasn't played well offensively.

Furthermore, the fact that Bergeron plays on average, the second most powerplay time of Boston's forwards (excluding Sturm due to the small sample size,) at 3:06 minutes, and yet has put up an appallingly low 10 power play points. Thats 150 minutes, so about 1 point about every 15 minutes.
You know nothing about the Bruins and each post is proving this... Why do you keep trying?

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03-03-2009, 09:08 PM
  #310
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i've been saying it for days: the bruins have to get rid of bergeron. Either they do it now and use him to get a boost somewhere else for the playoffs, or they drop him at the draft (when he is likely worth less). If bergeron + nets them pronger for a year + these playoffs, i'd consider that a win for the B's.

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03-03-2009, 09:09 PM
  #311
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Originally Posted by danishh View Post
i've been saying it for days: the bruins have to get rid of bergeron. Either they do it now and use him to get a boost somewhere else for the playoffs, or they drop him at the draft (when he is likely worth less). If bergeron + nets them pronger for a year + these playoffs, i'd consider that a win for the B's.

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03-03-2009, 09:13 PM
  #312
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Pronger looks better than Bergeron, offensively and defensively.

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03-03-2009, 09:15 PM
  #313
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nikita Filatov View Post
You know nothing about the Bruins and each post is proving this... Why do you keep trying?
Way to address the argument! Why is it so hard for you to admit that Bergeron has play poorly offensively this year? A 10 goal pace over an 82 games is absolutely horrid. Pretty simple, really. Not saying he isn't contributing to the success of the team, only that for 5 million dollars this year he is horribly overpaid considering his offensive production. Hell, I am not even claiming that he won't return to form.

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03-03-2009, 09:15 PM
  #314
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eraser View Post
Pronger looks better than Bergeron, offensively and defensively.
Don't forget he's also a decade younger... Oh wait...

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03-03-2009, 09:16 PM
  #315
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hedgehog Hodgson View Post
Way to address the argument! Why is it so hard for you to admit that Bergeron has play poorly offensively this year? A 10 goal pace over an 82 games is absolutely horrid. Pretty simple, really. Not saying he isn't contributing to the success of the team, only that for 5 million dollars this year he is horribly overpaid considering his offensive production. Hell, I am not even claiming that he won't return to form.
There's nothing to argue. You simply have no clue what you're saying. You look at the point totals and think he's having a bad season, when, clearly, that is not the case.

If you would watch a few games you might be able to realize this. If not, well, I can't help you.

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03-03-2009, 09:21 PM
  #316
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Originally Posted by Nikita Filatov View Post
There's nothing to argue. You simply have no clue what you're saying. You look at the point totals and think he's having a bad season, when, clearly, that is not the case.

If you would watch a few games you might be able to realize this. If not, well, I can't help you.
Quite clearly, if your could understand even the most basic arguments and logic, you would realize that Bergeron is having a terrible year offensively. If you can't grasp this elementary concept, then ironically, I cannot help you.

But instead, you implement a straw-man argument and claim that I am arguing that he has had, overall, a bad season, when in reality, I have only ever mentioned his offensive play.

But if you are happy paying 475,000 dollars per goal, then that is fine.

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03-03-2009, 09:26 PM
  #317
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Bob McKenzie said he thinks Pronger is less likely to get traded than Bouwmeester is

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03-03-2009, 09:28 PM
  #318
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hedgehog Hodgson View Post
Quite clearly, if your could understand even the most basic arguments and logic, you would realize that Bergeron is having a terrible year offensively. If you can't grasp this elementary concept, then ironically, I cannot help you.

But instead, you implement a straw-man argument and claim that I am arguing that he has had, overall, a bad season, when in reality, I have only ever mentioned his offensive play.

But if you are happy paying 475,000 dollars per goal, then that is fine.
Just watch him play. If you're gonna judge off stats, at least watch him so you can actually have something to back it up.

He actually has not been horrible offensively (But you fantasy GM's say different) He's actually been pretty damn good. Just because he isn't getting points does not mean he's not good.

All I'm asking is for you to watch a game so you can see his impact. If you want to base your arguments off of stats you find on ESPN, then go ahead, but it means nothing.

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03-03-2009, 09:28 PM
  #319
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If I was ANH, I'd jump all over that.

Bergeron is still only 23!!!!! Most players only come into the league at that age and he already has 2 years 70+ points, a 30+ goal season, and 20+ goal season.

The concussions are an issue and that's something you have to consider.

If Bergeron was putting up his 30 goal 40 assist season this year, there's no way in hell BOS would trade him.

ANH is getting a player where his value is at his lowest. I think he can tear it up in ANH.

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03-03-2009, 09:31 PM
  #320
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hedgehog Hodgson View Post
I don't really by the whole 'he is playing with scrubs so it is fine that he is putting up pathetic point totals' argument. Ask yourself, why is he playing with offensive scrubs? Its not like the Bruins are punishing him on purpose. If he was able to play well offensively with some of Boston's good offensive players, clearly he would be put there. There is a reason why he is playing with Axelsson, and that is because he hasn't played well offensively.

Furthermore, the fact that Bergeron plays on average, the second most powerplay time of Boston's forwards (excluding Sturm due to the small sample size,) at 3:06 minutes, and yet has put up an appallingly low 10 power play points. Thats 150 minutes, so about 1 point about every 15 minutes.
He plays the point on the PP... didn't I just say this in the post you quoted?

Also, the fact that he is putting up low offensive numbers is no doubt in fact due to him:

1. Missing an entire year of hockey, not being able to practice or for a mjority of the time even work out. His game is finally getting back on track, which is about par for the course.

2. Being used in a defensive role. Savard and Krejci are used as our top offensive centers. As an aside, Bergeron looks a hell of a lot better then Krejci right now. Maybe they should move him up between Ryder and Wheels.

In short, very good, you can read. His point totals are low. Now add common sense to the equation and you would realize there's no reason to think this is a permanent situation, and in fact looks to be resolving itself already. Next year Savard leaves, and if we deal both Bergeron and Colbourne, we're left with Krejci, and Hamill. Can anyone not see a valid reason why Boston doesnt do this trade. Its staring you right in the face, threatening to kick you in the nutz.

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03-03-2009, 09:35 PM
  #321
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Originally Posted by Nikita Filatov View Post
Just watch him play. If you're gonna judge off stats, at least watch him so you can actually have something to back it up.

He actually has not been horrible offensively (But you fantasy GM's say different) He's actually been pretty damn good. Just because he isn't getting points does not mean he's not good.

All I'm asking is for you to watch a game so you can see his impact. If you want to base your arguments off of stats you find on ESPN, then go ahead, but it means nothing.
Unfortunately for you, hockey is results driven. Getting chances isn't good enough, you have to actually get goals and assists. So yes, the fact that he isn't getting points does mean he hasn't played well offensively. Simple concept really. In fact, you don't have to have watched every Bruins game this season to realize how piss-poor offensively he has been.

I don't know why you can't admit he has played poorly offensively this year. I feel like I am arguing with a grade two student.

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03-03-2009, 09:41 PM
  #322
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hedgehog Hodgson View Post
I don't really by the whole 'he is playing with scrubs so it is fine that he is putting up pathetic point totals' argument. Ask yourself, why is he playing with offensive scrubs? Its not like the Bruins are punishing him on purpose. If he was able to play well offensively with some of Boston's good offensive players, clearly he would be put there. There is a reason why he is playing with Axelsson, and that is because he hasn't played well offensively.

Furthermore, the fact that Bergeron plays on average, the second most powerplay time of Boston's forwards (excluding Sturm due to the small sample size,) at 3:06 minutes, and yet has put up an appallingly low 10 power play points. Thats 150 minutes, so about 1 point about every 15 minutes.
I'm sorry dude, but Nikita is clearly right here...you don't know anything about the Bruins. PB is clearly one of our most talented offensive players. He's (so) talented that he can play with Kobasew and PJ and still play a decent offensive game.

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03-03-2009, 09:43 PM
  #323
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Originally Posted by Kaoz View Post
He plays the point on the PP... didn't I just say this in the post you quoted?

Also, the fact that he is putting up low offensive numbers is no doubt in fact due to him:

1. Missing an entire year of hockey, not being able to practice or for a mjority of the time even work out. His game is finally getting back on track, which is about par for the course.

2. Being used in a defensive role. Savard and Krejci are used as our top offensive centers. As an aside, Bergeron looks a hell of a lot better then Krejci right now. Maybe they should move him up between Ryder and Wheels.

In short, very good, you can read. His point totals are low. Now add common sense to the equation and you would realize there's no reason to think this is a permanent situation, and in fact looks to be resolving itself already. Next year Savard leaves, and if we deal both Bergeron and Colbourne, we're left with Krejci, and Hamill. Can anyone not see a valid reason why Boston doesnt do this trade. Its staring you right in the face, threatening to kick you in the nutz.
Playing on the point doesn't completely explain his lack of production on the powerplay.

1. I never said there wasn't good reason for his lack of production, only that he was playing poorly offensively. I understand the type of challenges he is facing, I was only commenting on how poorly offensively he has been. Which is true.

2. This doesn't really change the fact that Bergeron has been terrible offensively. Like I said, I never said there wasn't good reason for Bergeron's poor numbers, only that they were quite clearly there.

You need to actually read my posts. I already stated that I wasn't concluding that Bergeron wouldn't get better. My only point - from the very beginning - was that Bergeron was playing horrible offensively this year.

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03-03-2009, 09:44 PM
  #324
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hedgehog Hodgson View Post
Unfortunately for you, hockey is results driven. Getting chances isn't good enough, you have to actually get goals and assists. So yes, the fact that he isn't getting points does mean he hasn't played well offensively. Simple concept really. In fact, you don't have to have watched every Bruins game this season to realize how piss-poor offensively he has been.

I don't know why you can't admit he has played poorly offensively this year. I feel like I am arguing with a grade two student.
He slumped badly early in the year. Losing Marco Sturm, and having P.J. Axelsson and Chuck Kobasew on his line has hurt his production. But, he has 6 points in his last 8 games, you're a little off base here. Bad season? Yes. Currently? Playing pretty well.

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03-03-2009, 09:45 PM
  #325
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Originally Posted by mikeybuddha View Post
I'm sorry dude, but Nikita is clearly right here...you don't know anything about the Bruins. PB is clearly one of our most talented offensive players. He's (so) talented that he can play with Kobasew and PJ and still play a decent offensive game.
You call 10 goals prorated over a 82 game schedule a decent offensive game? Not saying that Bergeron isn't offensively talented, but quite clearly, he isn't producing offensively.

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