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[OTT/CBJ] Pascal Leclaire + 2nd round pick for Antoine Vermette

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Old
03-11-2009, 09:42 AM
  #351
grabo84
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Obviously if Leclaire plays like he did last year, Ottawa wins this trade. If he remains injury prone and his game suffers, Columbus wins. If I was a Columbus fan I'd be a bit concerned they gave up that 2nd round pick as well though, a straight up swap would have been more even.

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03-11-2009, 09:51 AM
  #352
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Second round picks are overrated. Ottawa's given up a second round pick for Freakin Saprykin in the past, another one for Arnason, and another for Bondra. Toronto gave up a second rounder for Yanik Perreault. They are not the difference between "winning" and "losing" a trade, as if that mattered.

Each team is happy with the piece they've acquired, and that's all that really matters. This was a good hockey trade.

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Old
03-11-2009, 09:57 AM
  #353
grabo84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by King Clancy View Post
Second round picks are overrated. Ottawa's given up a second round pick for Freakin Saprykin in the past, another one for Arnason, and another for Bondra. Toronto gave up a second rounder for Yanik Perreault. They are not the difference between "winning" and "losing" a trade, as if that mattered.

Each team is happy with the piece they've acquired, and that's all that really matters. This was a good hockey trade.
Sure, I completely agree. But the way the market this year was, they probably didn't have to throw it in.

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Old
03-11-2009, 10:30 AM
  #354
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Yeah I'm sure Howson threw in the 2nd rounder out of kindness

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Old
03-11-2009, 10:44 AM
  #355
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grabo84 View Post
Sure, I completely agree. But the way the market this year was, they probably didn't have to throw it in.
i'm guessing he probably did have to throw it in. Murray wanted leclaire AND a prospect for vermette. Howson has had his eyes on vermette for as long as he's been in columbus. Howson wouldnt budge on the prospect, and i'm guessing the 2nd rounder was the compromise.

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Old
03-11-2009, 10:45 AM
  #356
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Mason is the man
Pascal second best goalie
CBJ sleep well

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Old
03-11-2009, 11:11 AM
  #357
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Quote:
Originally Posted by umma gumma View Post
June 24, 2000: Bryan Murray traded Mark Parrish and Oleg Kvasha to the New York Islanders for Olli Jokinen and Roberto Luongo.

Anyone else notice the similarities?

The same guy traded for a top 10 drafted goalie, both were the highest goalies drafted for their year, and both were made expendable because the team they left had a another promising goalkeeper in the system.

Ottawa wins this trade.
Now if we can only draft someone of Jokinen's skillset with the second, that would be awsome.

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Old
03-11-2009, 01:13 PM
  #358
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danishh View Post
i'm guessing he probably did have to throw it in. Murray wanted leclaire AND a prospect for vermette. Howson has had his eyes on vermette for as long as he's been in columbus. Howson wouldnt budge on the prospect, and i'm guessing the 2nd rounder was the compromise.
That's what was reported in the Columbus Dispatch.

Quote:
The Senators wanted the deal to include a prospect, but the Blue Jackets persuaded them to take a draft pick instead.
http://www.bluejacketsxtra.com/live/...9.html?sid=101

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Old
03-11-2009, 04:26 PM
  #359
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Originally Posted by cydawg View Post
That's what was reported in the Columbus Dispatch.



http://www.bluejacketsxtra.com/live/...9.html?sid=101
Any idea who the propect was? maybe Franson?

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Old
03-11-2009, 05:27 PM
  #360
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skrymir View Post
Any idea who the propect was? maybe Franson?
No idea. If I had to guess probably someone like Mayorov or Hansen, maybe Sestito.

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Old
03-11-2009, 05:56 PM
  #361
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Originally Posted by cydawg View Post
No idea. If I had to guess probably someone like Mayorov or Hansen, maybe Sestito.
The rumour was Russell.

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Old
03-11-2009, 07:36 PM
  #362
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grabo84 View Post
The rumour was Russell.
That was back in December (I think) and it was Russell and a pick not Russell and Leclaire. Howson also came out and said he wouldn't trade Russell.

At that time, Howson probably didn't feel comfortable talking about trading Leclaire. However, as Mason continued to prove himself, Leclaire's name probably came up more in conversations and replaced Russell.

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Old
03-12-2009, 12:51 AM
  #363
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Quote:
Originally Posted by umma gumma View Post
June 24, 2000: Bryan Murray traded Mark Parrish and Oleg Kvasha to the New York Islanders for Olli Jokinen and Roberto Luongo.

Anyone else notice the similarities?

The same guy traded for a top 10 drafted goalie, both were the highest goalies drafted for their year, and both were made expendable because the team they left had a another promising goalkeeper in the system.

Ottawa wins this trade.
No way.

Luongo was three years removed from being drafted and had developed into the top prospect not in the NHL. He was traded to make room for someone who was three years behind on the development curve and who was much less of a sure thing. Besides that, Milbury was the one who made the offer to Murray.

Leclaire's development has been damaged because of his lengthy injury history; he hasn't played anything close to a full season going all the way back (I presume) to peewee hockey, since his time in the Q was abbreviated by injury as well. Leclaire is 5 years older than Luongo was and his biggest issue is staying healthy.

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Old
03-12-2009, 01:03 AM
  #364
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Redlighting View Post
30-Jun-06: Columbus Blue Jackets traded Marc Denis to the Tampa Bay Lightning for Fredrik Modin and Fredrik Norrena.

Anyone else notice the similarities?

Columbus trades their former #1 starting goalie to a team one year removed from going to the Stanley Cup finals, in desperate need for a goalie, for an established second line player.

Columbus wins this trade.
Honestly, the Denis for Modin/Norrena is about as lose-lose a trade as you can get

Both Denis and Modin woefully underperformed while with their new club. Norrena was a solid tender when Pazzy went down to injury a few years back but never re-attained that level. Now he's not even in the NHL.

Hell, as a CBJ fan I often forget Modin is even a roster player.

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Old
03-12-2009, 05:28 AM
  #365
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Originally Posted by futurcorerock View Post
Honestly, the Denis for Modin/Norrena is about as lose-lose a trade as you can get

Both Denis and Modin woefully underperformed while with their new club. Norrena was a solid tender when Pazzy went down to injury a few years back but never re-attained that level. Now he's not even in the NHL.
Modin scored 22 goals in his first year as a jacket. That is on par with his typical year...a far cry from 'woefully under performing'.

Last year was a very difficult year for him in terms of injuries, but in the games he did play, he was on pace for his usual 23 goal season. Again, in the games he played, he was as advertised. Again a far cry from 'woefully under-performing'.

Quote:
Hell, as a CBJ fan I often forget Modin is even a roster player.
Wow, so you forgot when Modin played with two broken toes for about 3 straight weeks and stayed in the lineup when we were down 7 regulars?

Nice fan...how quickly people forget...

What a terrible analysis of that trade.

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Old
03-12-2009, 07:14 AM
  #366
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Both teams will declare themselves the winner and that means the trade worked out well for everyone. It is possible that everyone wins a trade you know. I hope Pazzy returns to form and hope Vermette continues to play like his first few games in Columbus. This was a good trade and the 2nd round pick should be nice for Ottawa adn was necessary due to Pazzy's injuy history and higher contract.

Another added benefit for Columbus is this frees up cash for a front loaded offer to Nash.

Win - Win. I hope both teams succeed with their new players.

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Old
03-12-2009, 11:03 AM
  #367
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xoggz22 View Post
Both teams will declare themselves the winner and that means the trade worked out well for everyone. It is possible that everyone wins a trade you know. I hope Pazzy returns to form and hope Vermette continues to play like his first few games in Columbus. This was a good trade and the 2nd round pick should be nice for Ottawa adn was necessary due to Pazzy's injuy history and higher contract.

Another added benefit for Columbus is this frees up cash for a front loaded offer to Nash.

Win - Win. I hope both teams succeed with their new players.
But when there's a winner there's a loser. Every trade has a loser, right? Somebody has to have "lost" this trade, right?

Right?


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Old
03-12-2009, 09:13 PM
  #368
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1 goal and 1 assist tonight.

Vermette is awesome. Thank You so much. Good Luck Pazzy!

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Old
03-13-2009, 12:04 AM
  #369
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Originally Posted by ClevelandJacketFan View Post
1 goal and 1 assist tonight.

Vermette is awesome. Thank You so much. Good Luck Pazzy!
I wish him and the Jackets the best of luck. He can be a valuable member of any team, but it's debatable whether or not he would hit his ceiling here, being behind the big 3. That may happen in Columbus though, and he seems like the perfect forward for a Hitchcock system. I'll definitely be rooting for you guys come playoff time.

Hopefully Leclaire can stay healthy though, and this can be a great trade for both teams. I'm fairly confident in our defences ability to clear out any rebounds (which some CBJ fans have warned us about), with the likes of Phillips, Volchenkov, and to a lesser extent, Smith.

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Old
03-13-2009, 09:30 AM
  #370
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that reminds me of that near goal versus edmonton where smith swept it off the goal line, that was a close call.

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Old
03-13-2009, 01:18 PM
  #371
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Originally Posted by King Clancy View Post
Second round picks are overrated. Ottawa's given up a second round pick for Freakin Saprykin in the past, another one for Arnason, and another for Bondra. Toronto gave up a second rounder for Yanik Perreault. They are not the difference between "winning" and "losing" a trade, as if that mattered.

Each team is happy with the piece they've acquired, and that's all that really matters. This was a good hockey trade.
I'm not disagreeing with you, 2nd round picks are overrated on these boards but it really didn't make sence for Columbus to throw it in. Hell, I thought Vermette for Leclaire favored the Sens (Pascal did have 9 shutouts last year) so what was the point of the 2nd? I guess it was probably Sens realizing the Jackets have to make the playoffs and do something because they never have so told them to throw it in or no deal. Jackets felt a 2nd isn't a big loss and neither is an injured goalie right now since neither is going to help them this year so got it done.

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03-13-2009, 02:07 PM
  #372
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mapes View Post
I'm not disagreeing with you, 2nd round picks are overrated on these boards but it really didn't make sence for Columbus to throw it in. Hell, I thought Vermette for Leclaire favored the Sens (Pascal did have 9 shutouts last year) so what was the point of the 2nd? I guess it was probably Sens realizing the Jackets have to make the playoffs and do something because they never have so told them to throw it in or no deal. Jackets felt a 2nd isn't a big loss and neither is an injured goalie right now since neither is going to help them this year so got it done.
That pick had nothing to do with desperation on the Jackets' part. It was was thrown in strictly because of Leclaire's injury history. It's insurance on Murray's part. He wanted a prospect; he got a pick instead.

Or, put differently, if Leclaire never plays another hockey game (G-d forbid), then at least he got *some*thing in return.

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03-13-2009, 03:12 PM
  #373
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Originally Posted by mapes View Post
I guess it was probably Sens realizing the Jackets have to make the playoffs and do something because they never have so told them to throw it in or no deal. Jackets felt a 2nd isn't a big loss and neither is an injured goalie right now since neither is going to help them this year so got it done.
That's where this falls apart. The Toronto media has been saying that Columbus HAS TO MAKE THE PLAYOFFS all season. It's just not true. I'm in Columbus as are several other posters in this thread. What Columbus had to do this year is demonstrate their plan is sound and moving forward. They had to show they were building a team that will contend for a long time. The team's management made it very, very clear they were not going to make moves to "get into the playoffs" that would be short term moves...ie. rentals.

There was no desperation. Howson targeted Vermette for over a year as a long term addition. In his press conference he related that the Sens wanted a young player- most believe it to be Kris Russell along with LeClaire for Vermette. Rumors of that exact request were reported by the Columbus media going back to December. Howson was not going to part with Russell. He also realized Murray was taking a significant chance to fill Ottawa's goaltender needs, due to Pascal's history of injuries. To get the player he wanted, he included the 2nd because he thought it was fair trade value. Howson is not a GM that HAS to beat the other GM in a trade. He is looking for a fair trade. So far, Blue Jackets fans are learning Howson knows what he is doing.

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Old
03-13-2009, 03:23 PM
  #374
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Yeah, Howson looks fine. The media around here tends to have some memes that they like to run with (X team needs this, Y team is desperate because of that) and its frustrating for everybody, especially those of us who read it in the papers every day. It's a big reason why these cities can be pressure cookers to play in.

The only reason I was saying that it seemed like overpayment was because a 2nd was the highest price anybody paid for a player at the deadline (barring Jokinen). Vermette is probably good enough to justify a second on his own, but not much more. I suppose the fact that Leclaire has a relatively pricy contract and is injured probably hurt his value fairly badly though.

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03-13-2009, 03:29 PM
  #375
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Originally Posted by Viqsi View Post
That pick had nothing to do with desperation on the Jackets' part. It was was thrown in strictly because of Leclaire's injury history. It's insurance on Murray's part. He wanted a prospect; he got a pick instead.

Or, put differently, if Leclaire never plays another hockey game (G-d forbid), then at least he got *some*thing in return.
You guys get an average 2nd liner for the rest of this season and next season.

We get a #1 goalie for 2 more years.

We also get a 2nd round pick.

While Leclaire may be of no benefit to you guys, he will be much more valuable to us than Vermette will be to you (in the long-run). Since Columbus was desperate to fill a need for the playoffs, Murray was able to significantly upgrade the team and get a top 50 pick.

If Columbus had chosen to wait (and I'm not at all saying you should have), you'd be looking at much higher value for Leclaire in the offseason.

I can't stress enough how no team 'lost' this deal (time will tell anyways), but the Jackets were dealing from a position of weakness and could have got a lot more for Leclaire had they waited.

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