HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Western Conference > Pacific Division > Phoenix Coyotes
Notices

Jokinen, 3rd rounder to Calgary for Lombardi, Prust, 1st rounder

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
03-15-2009, 12:19 PM
  #101
rt
Usually Incorrect
 
rt's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Rarely Sober
Country: United States
Posts: 40,060
vCash: 500
This Jokinen debacle should be reason enough to can our "coach".

rt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-15-2009, 01:03 PM
  #102
_Del_
Registered User
 
_Del_'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: SkullcrusherMountain
Posts: 2,847
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by ducky View Post
Jokinen's re-found success is yet another testimony to how poor our team "schemes" are.

I was pumped when we traded for him. I beleived we would have a fantastic offense with Jokinen leading the way.

Somehow our system manages to stifle the talents of even 40 goal scorers.
This pretty well sums up how I feel about the issue.

_Del_ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-16-2009, 06:57 PM
  #103
2yotesfans88
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 233
vCash: 300
Quote:
Originally Posted by rt View Post
This Jokinen debacle should be reason enough to can our "coach".
i thought this was an interesting article on JOKINEN. not to say that TGO isnt at fault for his lack of production. but i think this guy makes some strong points about jokinen

http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/blog/puc...urn=nhl,148255

i love the title calgary is doomed and its all jokinens fault.

2yotesfans88 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-16-2009, 10:46 PM
  #104
HockeyHillbilly
Registered User
 
HockeyHillbilly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Where I woke up at.
Country: United States
Posts: 235
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2yotesfans88 View Post
i thought this was an interesting article on JOKINEN. not to say that TGO isnt at fault for his lack of production. but i think this guy makes some strong points about jokinen

http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/blog/puc...urn=nhl,148255

i love the title calgary is doomed and its all jokinens fault.
I read the PuckDaddy blog 2-3 times a day and as usual he finds some of the best articles, posts and a pretty good mix of humor. Another good one is the "brian burke" twitter... with posts like "ran into Eklund last night. He kept grilling me about trades and rumors. Finally I just paid him for the pizza and slammed the door."

HockeyHillbilly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-17-2009, 02:23 PM
  #105
zz
HFBoards Sponsor
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 5,595
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2yotesfans88 View Post
i thought this was an interesting article on JOKINEN. not to say that TGO isnt at fault for his lack of production. but i think this guy makes some strong points about jokinen

http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/blog/puc...urn=nhl,148255

i love the title calgary is doomed and its all jokinens fault.
My brain's very slow today, so I'm probably being thick and missing something obvious. Is this blog supposed to be sarcastic, "Colbert report" style? Or does that guy actually believe all this ********?

zz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-20-2009, 07:29 AM
  #106
Walkingthroughforest
ring bear
 
Walkingthroughforest's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,980
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2yotesfans88 View Post
i thought this was an interesting article on JOKINEN. not to say that TGO isnt at fault for his lack of production. but i think this guy makes some strong points about jokinen

http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/blog/puc...urn=nhl,148255

i love the title calgary is doomed and its all jokinens fault.
I'm about to go out on a limb here and say that sarcasm doesn't resonate very well with you

Walkingthroughforest is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-30-2009, 04:43 PM
  #107
rt
Usually Incorrect
 
rt's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Rarely Sober
Country: United States
Posts: 40,060
vCash: 500
FYI:

Matthew Lombardi has a higher PPG avg. as a Phoenix Coyote than Olli Jokinen did.

rt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-30-2009, 05:16 PM
  #108
PHX FireBirds18
Registered User
 
PHX FireBirds18's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Country: United States
Posts: 2,898
vCash: 500
Thanks for that piece of info. I was wondering how many points Lombardi has racked up since the trade, I did read today that he has 4 goals in the last 5 games.

Just checked he has 5-4-9 in 12 games as a yote. Not including the disallowed goal in NY.

PHX FireBirds18 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
03-30-2009, 10:58 PM
  #109
MP
Registered User
 
MP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,890
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by rt View Post
FYI:

Matthew Lombardi has a higher PPG avg. as a Phoenix Coyote than Olli Jokinen did.
And with at least one point added tonight, to boot. And between the two of them, I like our chances of re-signing Lombardi much better. The sting of losing Ballard would ease somewhat if the net result of that trade--that is, Lombardi--ends up becoming a long-term asset, instead of a two-season rental. I'm convinced that that's all Jokinen would have ended up being.

MP is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-01-2009, 12:38 AM
  #110
Devils Advocate
mmmmmm....Crow.
 
Devils Advocate's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 3,673
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ducky View Post
Jokinen's re-found success is yet another testimony to how poor our team "schemes" are.

I was pumped when we traded for him. I beleived we would have a fantastic offense with Jokinen leading the way.

Somehow our system manages to stifle the talents of even 40 goal scorers.
But Upshall, Lombardi, & Prucha seem to thrive in the poor system?

Maybe his re-found success is tied to the fact that Jokinen is surrounded by the likes of Iginla, Cammalleri, Phaneuf...Then again Jokinen did put up those numbers while in Florida too. I don't know is the East higher scoring? Maybe playing on a team with Doan actually hurt Jokinen's numbers? Maybe the fact the Coyotes were terrible on faceoffs, which is going to put a big damper on your power play, is yet another reason his numbers were down.

Just maybe the players have as much to do with scoring as the system (caveat: the Wild system).

Devils Advocate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-01-2009, 01:17 AM
  #111
yakko
Registered User
 
yakko's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Northern California
Country: United States
Posts: 3,867
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Devils Advocate View Post
But Upshall, Lombardi, & Prucha seem to thrive in the poor system?
Is it a coincidence that they are all new and were not exposed to the training handed out in training camp and since?

Quote:
Maybe his re-found success is tied to the fact that Jokinen is surrounded by the likes of Iginla, Cammalleri, Phaneuf...Then again Jokinen did put up those numbers while in Florida too. I don't know is the East higher scoring? Maybe playing on a team with Doan actually hurt Jokinen's numbers? Maybe the fact the Coyotes were terrible on faceoffs, which is going to put a big damper on your power play, is yet another reason his numbers were down.
I am sure the outcome of Jokinen's stay in Phoenix in contrast before and since was due to a number of factors. The key for the Coyotes is finding the ones that were not specific to Jokinen and deeper problems with the team.

yakko is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-01-2009, 01:37 AM
  #112
hao chi
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 2,014
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ducky View Post
Jokinen's re-found success is yet another testimony to how poor our team "schemes" are.

I was pumped when we traded for him. I beleived we would have a fantastic offense with Jokinen leading the way.

Somehow our system manages to stifle the talents of even 40 goal scorers.
I don't see how re-found success for Jokinen is putting up better personal stats while his new team goes 5-8-0 since his arrival (4-6-0 in last 10). Keep in mind this is (or should be) a very good team that was 7-1-2 in the last 10 before he showed up, and now they're struggling (it's like a coincidence!). Not to mention he's had a negative +/- rating in most of his games.

http://flames.nhl.com/team/app?page=...e=page&tab=gbg

Ever think there's a reason Jokinen has never been in the playoffs and we'll be better off without him?

I'll gladly take Lombardi and the 1st round pick over Jokinen any day.

I know you posted that a couple weeks ago, but even then the flames were 2-3-0 with Jokinen.


Last edited by hao chi: 04-01-2009 at 01:58 AM.
hao chi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-01-2009, 04:13 AM
  #113
Gwyddbwyll
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Country: United Kingdom
Posts: 10,500
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2yotesfans88 View Post
i thought this was an interesting article on JOKINEN. not to say that TGO isnt at fault for his lack of production. but i think this guy makes some strong points about jokinen

http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/blog/puc...urn=nhl,148255

i love the title calgary is doomed and its all jokinens fault.
Very funny article.. beautifully captures the twists his detractors are prepared to go to blame Jokinen.

He did not work out here, but Jokinen was still on course for a 30 goal season. That's some "bad" year. His would-be critics would rather wax lyrical about some voodoo playoff hoodoo. Lets look at a similar case. Shane Doan has made the playoffs ONCE in the last TEN years and went straight out in the first round. He ONLY has 6 goals in 32 playoff games. My god. There's a guy with OBVIOUS character flaws that mean the team will never be successful with him on it. Quick, trade him for a bag of pucks before anyone realises.

Lombardi has been much better than I expected. Still Im not sure we got very good value. He has to keep going and with our coaching..

.


Last edited by Gwyddbwyll: 04-01-2009 at 04:20 AM.
Gwyddbwyll is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-01-2009, 08:37 AM
  #114
ducky
Registered User
 
ducky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Home of Kokanee Beer
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,767
vCash: 500
If you consider the Jokinen period a blip...would anyone be happy trading Ballard, Boynton and a 2nd for Lombardi, Prust, and a 1st?

Personally I wanted a defenseman back rather than Prust. Granted I do not know much about Prust but feel we did not need another player that produces 1 goal every 33 games (and counting).

Lombardi is a good replacement for Reinprecht as a 2nd line centre. We will have to see how the 1st pans out over the next 5 years or so.

ducky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-01-2009, 09:12 AM
  #115
Kaizen
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Prince George B.C.
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,070
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gwyddbwyll View Post
Very funny article.. beautifully captures the twists his detractors are prepared to go to blame Jokinen.

He did not work out here, but Jokinen was still on course for a 30 goal season. That's some "bad" year. His would-be critics would rather wax lyrical about some voodoo playoff hoodoo. Lets look at a similar case. Shane Doan has made the playoffs ONCE in the last TEN years and went straight out in the first round. He ONLY has 6 goals in 32 playoff games. My god. There's a guy with OBVIOUS character flaws that mean the team will never be successful with him on it. Quick, trade him for a bag of pucks before anyone realises.

Lombardi has been much better than I expected. Still Im not sure we got very good value. He has to keep going and with our coaching..

.
I love it when I'm not the only devil's advocate.

Kaizen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-01-2009, 02:47 PM
  #116
BigJCaRoach
I howl
 
BigJCaRoach's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: The Desert
Country: United States
Posts: 594
vCash: 500
I like the way Matthew Lombardi has played since the trade but still I am extremely bitter the Olli Jokinen experiment cost us Ballard.


But is anyone else having some extreme déjà vu with this? Remember the 2005-2006 season? We thought we finally got our number 2 center? he put up 23 points in 28 games. Had great chemistry with Doan. And then wasn't capable of keeping that up the last 3 seasons.


Matthew Lombardi is this years Steve Reinprecht.

BigJCaRoach is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-01-2009, 03:02 PM
  #117
k1llua
 
k1llua's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,841
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to k1llua
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigJCaRoach View Post
I like the way Matthew Lombardi has played since the trade but still I am extremely bitter the Olli Jokinen experiment cost us Ballard.


But is anyone else having some extreme déjà vu with this? Remember the 2005-2006 season? We thought we finally got our number 2 center? he put up 23 points in 28 games. Had great chemistry with Doan. And then wasn't capable of keeping that up the last 3 seasons.


Matthew Lombardi is this years Steve Reinprecht.
It's way too soon to make that assumption. Not the Reinprecht has been a bad player. He's actually been exactly what you described him as, a number 2 center that has chemistry with Doan.

k1llua is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-01-2009, 03:21 PM
  #118
yakko
Registered User
 
yakko's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Northern California
Country: United States
Posts: 3,867
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by k1llua View Post
It's way too soon to make that assumption. Not the Reinprecht has been a bad player. He's actually been exactly what you described him as, a number 2 center that has chemistry with Doan.
It is a pretty good expectation to have though. If someone is expecting Lombardi to become a completely different player than he has been over his career, they are setting themselves up for disappointment. If he does end up being better in Phoenix, that will be a pleasant surprise, but it is a poor expectation.

He is a little bit different than Reinprecht though. He is faster and more of a straight line kind of guy with less offensive flare than Reinprecht. They are both roughly second line centers, pretty good in each zone but nothing special overall.

yakko is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-01-2009, 03:23 PM
  #119
k1llua
 
k1llua's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,841
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to k1llua
Quote:
Originally Posted by yakko View Post
It is a pretty good expectation to have though. If someone is expecting Lombardi to become a completely different player than he has been over his career, they are setting themselves up for disappointment. If he does end up being better in Phoenix, that will be a pleasant surprise, but it is a poor expectation.

He is a little bit different than Reinprecht though. He is faster and more of a straight line kind of guy with less offensive flare than Reinprecht. They are both roughly second line centers, pretty good in each zone but nothing special overall.
That's pretty much what I expect. I just dislike the insinuation that being like Reinprecht is somehow some horrible fate that should be avoided.

k1llua is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-01-2009, 03:28 PM
  #120
Devils Advocate
mmmmmm....Crow.
 
Devils Advocate's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 3,673
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by yakko View Post
It is a pretty good expectation to have though. If someone is expecting Lombardi to become a completely different player than he has been over his career, they are setting themselves up for disappointment. If he does end up being better in Phoenix, that will be a pleasant surprise, but it is a poor expectation.

He is a little bit different than Reinprecht though. He is faster and more of a straight line kind of guy with less offensive flare than Reinprecht. They are both roughly second line centers, pretty good in each zone but nothing special overall.
He's faster, more skilled, better defensively, younger, better at faceoffs, tougher, & more durable (knock knock).

I'd say Lombardi is a legit 2nd line center & Rhino is poor-mans 2nd line center...albeit underrated.

Devils Advocate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-01-2009, 03:41 PM
  #121
yakko
Registered User
 
yakko's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Northern California
Country: United States
Posts: 3,867
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by k1llua View Post
That's pretty much what I expect. I just dislike the insinuation that being like Reinprecht is somehow some horrible fate that should be avoided.
I completely agree with you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Devils Advocate View Post
He's faster, more skilled, better defensively, younger, better at faceoffs, tougher, & more durable (knock knock).

I'd say Lombardi is a legit 2nd line center & Rhino is poor-mans 2nd line center...albeit underrated.
Lombardi is faster, younger and better at face offs. I do not think he is more skilled or or significantly better defensively.

I am not sure Lombardi is any more durable either. Lombardi has played 63 games this season to Reinprecht's 68. In the previous three seasons Reinprecht played 81, 49 and 80 to Lombardi's 82, 81 and 56.

yakko is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-01-2009, 03:49 PM
  #122
rt
Usually Incorrect
 
rt's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Rarely Sober
Country: United States
Posts: 40,060
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by yakko View Post
Lombardi is faster, younger and better at face offs. I do not think he is more skilled or or significantly better defensively.
I think Lombardi is awesome defensively. Totally blows Reinprecht out of the water, IMO. Lombardi great PKer, too. Rhino hasn't traditionally seen much time on the PK.

rt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-01-2009, 03:52 PM
  #123
yakko
Registered User
 
yakko's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Northern California
Country: United States
Posts: 3,867
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by rt View Post
I think Lombardi is awesome defensively. Totally blows Reinprecht out of the water, IMO. Lombardi great PKer, too. Rhino hasn't traditionally seen much time on the PK.
While I think Lombardi is a little better defensively, I think Reinprecht is pretty good in his own zone too. I don't think Lombardi blows him out of the water.

You're going to scare AY talking like that.

yakko is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-01-2009, 07:16 PM
  #124
crazyhockeylover96
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Country: United States
Posts: 245
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ducky View Post
Ballard, Boynton and a 2nd for Lombardi, Prust, and a 1st?
Actually, it was:

Ballard (too expensive demands)
Boynton (not even playing hockey now)
PHX 3rd (not 2nd)

For:

Lombardi
Prust
Cal 1st

I agree that evaluating the picks will take some years. People's opinion might change on this trade based on how you divide Gratton, Vaananen, and Stastny for Morris and Ballard. Losing Ballard hurt a lot less knowing he was demanding more then PHX would give and that he's in the East not steamrolling PHX all the time. Boynton also has diabetes. Controlled but still dangerous.

crazyhockeylover96 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-01-2009, 10:48 PM
  #125
Kaizen
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Prince George B.C.
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,070
vCash: 500
It was in fact a 2nd rounder but there was then some additional dealing surrounding the second round pick(s).

Here's a great link someone provided earlier.

http://www.prosportstransactions.com...y/DraftTrades/

Kaizen is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:19 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.