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Compensatory Draft Selection for Cherepanov?

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Old
10-17-2008, 07:24 AM
  #1
MortUWary
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Compensatory Draft Selection for Cherepanov?

Can anyone with familiarity of the NHL's Collective Bargaining Agreement confirm whether the NY Rangers will be entitled to a Compensatory Draft Selection under Article 8.3(b) of the CBA, despite the lack of a transfer agreement? The section states:

"In the event a Club loses its draft rights to an Unsigned Draft Choice drafted in the first round of the Entry Draft (except as a result of failing to tender a required Bona Fide Offer (as defined below)), who is again eligible for the Entry Draft or becomes an Unrestricted Free Agent, a Compensatory Draft Selection shall automatically be granted to that Club, which Compensatory Draft Selection shall be the same numerical choice in the second round in the Entry Draft immediately following the date the Club loses such rights."

With Alexei Cherepanov's untimely and tragic demise, I hope that nobody takes offense to this question. As a human being, I feel terrible that he passed away before living a complete and full life. As a Rangers fan, I feel terrible that they lost a first round pick and an elite talent. Of course this is different, but this would mark the third time in recent memory (Dan Blackburn and Stefan Cherneski) that a first round draft pick's career ended prematurely.

I'm curious to find out if the Rangers would be entitled to a compensatory pick, despite the lack of a transfer agreement AND the inability to tender a bona fide offer, due to his death. I also have no clue as to when he would've become a UFA if he remained unsigned. If anyone can shed some light on this, it would be greatly appreciated.

Mod Edit: deleted


Last edited by Fugu: 10-17-2008 at 11:08 AM. Reason: Take it to PM, please
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10-17-2008, 08:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MortUWary View Post
Can anyone with familiarity of the NHL's Collective Bargaining Agreement confirm whether the NY Rangers will be entitled to a Compensatory Draft Selection under Article 8.3(b) of the CBA, despite the lack of a transfer agreement? The section states:

"In the event a Club loses its draft rights to an Unsigned Draft Choice drafted in the first round of the Entry Draft (except as a result of failing to tender a required Bona Fide Offer (as defined below)), who is again eligible for the Entry Draft or becomes an Unrestricted Free Agent, a Compensatory Draft Selection shall automatically be granted to that Club, which Compensatory Draft Selection shall be the same numerical choice in the second round in the Entry Draft immediately following the date the Club loses such rights."

With Alexei Cherepanov's untimely and tragic demise, I hope that nobody takes offense to this question. As a human being, I feel terrible that he passed away before living a complete and full life. As a Rangers fan, I feel terrible that they lost a first round pick and an elite talent. Of course this is different, but this would mark the third time in recent memory (Dan Blackburn and Stefan Cherneski) that a first round draft pick's career ended prematurely.

I'm curious to find out if the Rangers would be entitled to a compensatory pick, despite the lack of a transfer agreement AND the inability to tender a bona fide offer, due to his death. I also have no clue as to when he would've become a UFA if he remained unsigned. If anyone can shed some light on this, it would be greatly appreciated.

Mod Edit: deleted
I doubt it. They didn't lose their draft right.


Last edited by Fugu: 10-17-2008 at 11:09 AM. Reason: change to quoted section
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10-17-2008, 08:05 AM
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Cherry is not "again eligible for the Entry Draft or becomes an Unrestricted Free Agent".

Also, don't think too much about what you wrote in the 3rd paragraph. There is absolutely nothing wrong with talking about the hockey effects of Cherepanovs passing. I think many many Rangerfans, all over the world, will remember and think of Cherepanov 15-20 years from now. But the tradgey of it all can't result in that nobody can discuss the Rangers hockey position. Like when the draft comes, fans should be able to talk about the lack of scoring threats in the organization. Hockeys Future should be able to list lack of scoring wingers as a "weakness" when they rank the prospects of the organizations. Its not like anyone would "honor" Cherepanov by pretending that he is still alive.

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10-17-2008, 09:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Ola View Post
Cherry is not "again eligible for the Entry Draft or becomes an Unrestricted Free Agent".
Yep, I think that seals it.

Also, as sad as his passing was, there is no reason not to discuss the hockey-related consequences, just as it is appropriate to mention how Vancouver is now weak on high-end D prospects, as long as it is done in good taste.

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10-17-2008, 12:14 PM
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Thank you 'ola' and 'rebel diamond' for the insight. Mod-edit: deleted.


Last edited by Snoil11: 10-17-2008 at 01:01 PM. Reason: Mod abuse
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10-17-2008, 12:26 PM
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It is sad but in the end all drafts are gambles and sadly one of those gambles is that a prospect could die. Just ask the Boston Celtics about Len Bias. In the end, as cold hearted as it is, the Rangers lost this pick much like if a player decides not to come to NA or is a bust just a lot sader.

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10-17-2008, 12:28 PM
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I don't want to start anything. Please correct me if i'm to far off track. But didn't Cherry have Ischemia?

If so, wouldn't that have been looked over in the NHL combine and by way of default land another pick for the Rangers. Now, i don't want to get in a big debate because it was the sad end that Cherepanov went down with an ambulance and proper medical care available.

Sorry, Hm. I was wondering if the NHL combine missed the diagnosis? and if they were to would that compensate a team. In any situation.

RIP Cherepanov


Last edited by UpGoesRupp: 10-17-2008 at 12:29 PM. Reason: Without*** an ambulance etc.
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10-17-2008, 12:31 PM
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Originally Posted by WestZephyr View Post
I don't want to start anything. Please correct me if i'm to far off track. But didn't Cherry have Ischemia?

If so, wouldn't that have been looked over in the NHL combine and by way of default land another pick for the Rangers. Now, i don't want to get in a big debate because it was the sad end that Cherepanov went down with an ambulance and proper medical care available.

Sorry, Hm. I was wondering if the NHL combine missed the diagnosis? and if they were to would that compensate a team. In any situation.

RIP Cherepanov
Seeing as there's no past precedent for the league to compensate a team in this fashion it would seem unlikely.

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10-17-2008, 12:34 PM
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"In the event a Club loses its draft rights to an Unsigned Draft Choice drafted in the first round of the Entry Draft (except as a result of failing to tender a required Bona Fide Offer (as defined below)), who is again eligible for the Entry Draft or becomes an Unrestricted Free Agent, a Compensatory Draft Selection shall automatically be granted to that Club, which Compensatory Draft Selection shall be the same numerical choice in the second round in the Entry Draft immediately following the date the Club loses such rights."
My interpretation of the above cited clause is that the Rangers get the pick, if the transfer agreement issue is resolved.

They can still tender an offer, he just is now unable to accept it .

To clarify, I expect it to be treated as if he were still alive and just chose to not sign the Bona Fide Offer.

Still, the issue remains whether his rights lapse per the Transfer Agreement this draft or never. If the rights would have lapsed this draft, the Rangers will get pick #47 in 2009.

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10-17-2008, 12:36 PM
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Thanks for the opinion. On a side note. Big ups to the KHL for showing a lot of emotions for the tradgedy. I.e. naming the Rookie of the Year trophy after the late Alexei Cherepanov. The fashion in which it happened is very sad.

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10-17-2008, 01:01 PM
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They would have tendered him a bona fide offer this past offseason to retain his rights.

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10-17-2008, 01:51 PM
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10-17-2008, 03:02 PM
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MortUWary
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WestZephyr View Post
Thanks for the opinion. On a side note. Big ups to the KHL for showing a lot of emotions for the tradgedy. I.e. naming the Rookie of the Year trophy after the late Alexei Cherepanov. The fashion in which it happened is very sad.
I believe Omsk also retired his #7, which was also a classy move.

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10-17-2008, 03:42 PM
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I believe the NHL will invoke commission discretion and a comp pick will be awarded. The NHLPA and other teams won't even think about contesting it.

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10-17-2008, 04:06 PM
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stu the grim reaper
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the idea is outrageous! life happens. there is no compensation.

you cant just postulate whether or not a contract/transfer wouldve been worked out had things transpired differently...the young man's career ended. thats the end of it.

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10-17-2008, 04:32 PM
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Not a chance. If a team is in a similar situation in that they loose the player to career-ending injury, is a pick awarded? I doubt it.

Things happen in life, this was bad luck, NYR just needs to suck it up and move forward - and they will.

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10-17-2008, 04:42 PM
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Not a chance. If a team is in a similar situation in that they loose the player to career-ending injury, is a pick awarded? I doubt it.

Things happen in life, this was bad luck, NYR just needs to suck it up and move forward - and they will.
If the player has a career-ending injury and the team held that player's draft rights never had an opportunity to sign the player, the same question would and should be brought up.

Not to take off on Bluenote13's mention of Luc Bourdon, but he was a player who turned pro, was already signed by Vancouver and had a handful of NHL games under his belt at the time of his tragic passing. Vancouver wouldn't be entitled to draft compensation, just as Philly wasn't eligible for anything when Pelle Lindburgh passed on, but you should be able to ask the question in the case of an amateur who was drafted, but lost their life or had a career-ending injury. The team used a draft pick and wasn't able (because of unfortunate or tragic circumstances) to sign the player.

It's just a question of interpretation of the NHL's Collective Bargaining Agreement. I'm not trying to start trouble, but I feel (as do others who were at the Rangers game with me on Monday night) that it's a intriguing question to raise.

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10-17-2008, 04:44 PM
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azrok22
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the idea is outrageous! life happens. there is no compensation.
But there IS compensation for 1st round prospects who don't get signed.

Quote:
"In the event a Club loses its draft rights to an Unsigned Draft Choice drafted in the first round of the Entry Draft (except as a result of failing to tender a required Bona Fide Offer (as defined below)), who is again eligible for the Entry Draft or becomes an Unrestricted Free Agent, a Compensatory Draft Selection shall automatically be granted to that Club, which Compensatory Draft Selection shall be the same numerical choice in the second round in the Entry Draft immediately following the date the Club loses such rights."
Playing first year law student with this, the elements for who receives compensation are:

1) a Club loses its draft rights to an Unsigned Draft Choice
2) drafted in the first Round
3) except as a result of failing to tender a required Bona Fide Offer
4) who is again eligible for the Entry Draft or becomes an Unrestricted Free Agent

Cherepanov, Bourdon, and Wheeler (old CBA, but just as an example) are all very different sutations.

Wheeler:
1) a Club loses its draft rights to an Unsigned Draft Choice - Coyotes did lose their draft rights
2) drafted in the first Round - was drafted in the first round
3) except as a result of failing to tender a required Bona Fide Offer - Coyotes did tender a Bona Fide Offer, Wheeler did not sign
4) who is again eligible for the Entry Draft or becomes an Unrestricted Free Agent - became an UFA

Thus, Coyotes were compensated

Bourdon:
1) a Club loses its draft rights to an Unsigned Draft Choice - Canucks did NOT lose their draft rights
2) drafted in the first Round - was drafted in the first round
3) except as a result of failing to tender a required Bona Fide Offer - Canucks did tender a Bona Fide Offer, Bourdon signed
4) who is again eligible for the Entry Draft or becomes an Unrestricted Free Agent - did not become an UFA or reenter the draft



If Cherepanov was from the US (or Canada) and the situation played out the exact same (tragic) way, the Rangers would get the compensation without any question. BUT, the first and fourth elements may be problematic because of the transfer agreement... it is possible the Rangers would not lose their draft rights which would defeat the compensation claim. So:

Cherepanov:
1) a Club loses its draft rights to an Unsigned Draft Choice - depending on how the transfer agreement is interpreted, the Rangers either (a) lose their rights if Cherepanov remains unsigned, or (b) they retain them indefinitely. If the answer would be (a) if Cherepanov was live the Rangers would get the compensation
2) drafted in the first Round - Chere was a first round pick
3) except as a result of failing to tender a required Bona Fide Offer - Rangers did tender a Bona Fide Offer
4) who is again eligible for the Entry Draft or becomes an Unrestricted Free Agent - depending on how the transfer agreement is interpreted, Cherepanov either (a) returns to the draft, or (b) remains Rangers property indefinitely. If (a) the Rangers get compensation

I think the situation plays out with the Rangers receiving the pick in the 2009 draft, but it is terrible compensation both in terms of the talent Cherepanov was and that his life was lost to bring about the compensation.

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10-17-2008, 04:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stu the grim reaper View Post
the idea is outrageous! life happens. there is no compensation.

you cant just postulate whether or not a contract/transfer wouldve been worked out had things transpired differently...the young man's career ended. thats the end of it.
my feelings as well...

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10-17-2008, 04:48 PM
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If the player has a career-ending injury and the team held that player's draft rights never had an opportunity to sign the player, the same question would and should be brought up.
Actually, there would be no question.

If a player:
1) had a career-ending injury before he was signed to an NHL contract (EDIT: note, he must have been offered a contract he did not sign)
2) was drafted in the first round
3) and was from either Canada, the U.S., or a transfer agreement country...

All of the elements outlined in the paragraph above are met. There is no question the team who drafted him would receive a compensatory pick.

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10-17-2008, 04:50 PM
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MortUWary
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Originally Posted by azrok22 View Post
But there IS compensation for 1st round prospects who don't get signed.



Playing first year law student with this, the elements for who receives compensation are:

1) a Club loses its draft rights to an Unsigned Draft Choice
2) drafted in the first Round
3) except as a result of failing to tender a required Bona Fide Offer
4) who is again eligible for the Entry Draft or becomes an Unrestricted Free Agent

Cherepanov, Bourdon, and Wheeler (old CBA, but just as an example) are all very different sutations.

Wheeler:
1) a Club loses its draft rights to an Unsigned Draft Choice - Coyotes did lose their draft rights
2) drafted in the first Round - was drafted in the first round
3) except as a result of failing to tender a required Bona Fide Offer - Coyotes did tender a Bona Fide Offer, Wheeler did not sign
4) who is again eligible for the Entry Draft or becomes an Unrestricted Free Agent - became an UFA

Thus, Coyotes were compensated
I appreciate the backup, but there was actually a stipulation with Wheeler's situation on signing the player by his college graduation year, whereby the Coyotes had 4 years to sign him. There are more gray areas with Cherepanov, due to the lack of a transfer agreement with Russia and a different timeline for players to become UFAs. Being as Wheeler had a 4 year window, as a result of going to a US College, the parameters were defined.

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10-17-2008, 04:56 PM
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I appreciate the backup, but there was actually a stipulation with Wheeler's situation on signing the player by his graduation year, whereby the Coyotes had 4 years to sign him. There are more gray areas with Cherepanov, due to the lack of a transfer agreement with Russia and a different timeline for players to become UFAs.
I'm aware of that I was just using Wheeler as an example... for my purposes ignore the old-CBA new-CBA issue, because they dealt primairily with his UFA/draft re-entry status. For college born players it was 4 years (ie: time needed to graduate). For European players in this CBA, the term is 2 years (which would make the pick 2009.

The issue is there are two conflicting clauses. One deals with countries that sign the transfer agreement, one deals with countries that do not sign.

The problem is, there was a transfer agreement with Russia, but it lapsed. The question is, do they use the clause for countries that signed the transfer agreement, or the one for no transfer agreement.

Using the no transfer agreement clause would mean Cherepanov becomes an UFA (EDIT: sorry, I mean reenters the draft).

Using the transfer agreement clause would mean Cherepanov remains Rangers property indefinitely.

***The difference old CBA vs. this CBA for Wheeler was that under the old CBA (which was followed) he became an UFA, under the current CBA a player would reenter the draft.

EDIT: Situation with Frolik this summer was almost similar. Had Frolik not signed before the deadline, he would have reentered the draft and the Panthers would have received a compensatory pick. Frolik signed a day or so before the deadline averting the situation.

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10-17-2008, 05:08 PM
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Great information and insight. Thanks azrok!


Last edited by MortUWary: 10-17-2008 at 05:14 PM.
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10-17-2008, 06:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by azrok22 View Post
If Cherepanov was from the US (or Canada) and the situation played out the exact same (tragic) way, the Rangers would get the compensation without any question. BUT, the first and fourth elements may be problematic because of the transfer agreement... it is possible the Rangers would not lose their draft rights which would defeat the compensation claim. So:
From a purely legal standpoint, the wording on #1 could be an obstacle also.

Quote:
"In the event a Club loses its draft rights to an Unsigned Draft Choice drafted in the first round of the Entry Draft (except as a result of failing to tender a required Bona Fide Offer (as defined below)), who is again eligible for the Entry Draft or becomes an Unrestricted Free Agent, a Compensatory Draft Selection shall automatically be granted to that Club, which Compensatory Draft Selection shall be the same numerical choice in the second round in the Entry Draft immediately following the date the Club loses such rights."
Being deceased, could Cherepanov meet either of those conditions?



p.s. Obviously the NHL has leeway to interpret this clause, just pointing out the language.

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10-18-2008, 02:05 AM
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by azrok22 View Post
Cherepanov:
1) a Club loses its draft rights to an Unsigned Draft Choice - depending on how the transfer agreement is interpreted, the Rangers either (a) lose their rights if Cherepanov remains unsigned, or (b) they retain them indefinitely. If the answer would be (a) if Cherepanov was live the Rangers would get the compensation
2) drafted in the first Round - Chere was a first round pick
3) except as a result of failing to tender a required Bona Fide Offer - Rangers did tender a Bona Fide Offer
4) who is again eligible for the Entry Draft or becomes an Unrestricted Free Agent - depending on how the transfer agreement is interpreted, Cherepanov either (a) returns to the draft, or (b) remains Rangers property indefinitely. If (a) the Rangers get compensation

I think the situation plays out with the Rangers receiving the pick in the 2009 draft, but it is terrible compensation both in terms of the talent Cherepanov was and that his life was lost to bring about the compensation.
As a rangerfan I hope you are right. A 2nd round pick wouldn't hurt.

But, gooing strict by the wording -- Cherry won't meet the criterias for beeing eligble for the entry draft or to become a UFA.

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