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Patrick O'Sullivan to Edmonton; Justin Williams to LA (3-way Trade)

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Old
03-04-2009, 11:05 PM
  #176
jt
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Originally Posted by The Judge View Post
Observations:

Dean is like a GM who loves to shop to 99 cents stores but pays a hefty price for it for players that are have beens... for the most part.
- McCauley
- Cloutier
- Blake
- Williams
- Gauthier
Did you just use Gauthier as an example for when Lombardi overpaid in a deal? Really? Patrik Hersley and Ned Lukacevic for Denis Gauthier and a 2010 2nd rounder is an overpayment?

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Originally Posted by Zad View Post
From the players' perspective, I am almost concerned. Sully clearly was not having a great year. He was playing above average hockey. However, I cannot believe that Anze, Dustin, Frolov and the kids aren't thinking about this trade. Be them for a moment. You would really ask some questions about the seriousness of management in building around the represented core. Maybe, in some respects, that will play out in a positive manner because it will teach the players that if you don't pull your weight and play at peak levels, you are gone to the boonies (i.e., Alberta).

I am certain of one thing - Dean just put a big part of his job on JW. JW doesn't come back from injury and Sully goes on to flourish and Dean can look forward to a long scouting career.
If I were one of those players I'd be thinking "I love the player Dean just got us. He's got a Cup and a GREAT reputation as a leader. He plays tough and scores in front of the net. We're gonna be a better team with him and I think we can make the playoffs next year."

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jt, good to see you around these parts, it's been awhile.
Yeah, I might be around a little more now. I've freed up some time.

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Old
03-04-2009, 11:05 PM
  #177
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I talked to someone in the org tonight about this trade, and this is exactly the line of discussion that came up.

.
Tell me you are not talking about your ticket rep

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Old
03-04-2009, 11:05 PM
  #178
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I thought april fools wasn't till next month??

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Old
03-04-2009, 11:07 PM
  #179
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Mark my words.. another King killer is born!
Words marked and noted. And unfortunately, you are all too right.

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Old
03-04-2009, 11:08 PM
  #180
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Everyone wondering why the 2nd had to be thrown in to make the deal work on Carolina's side should note that it's stated somewhere on Lomba...I mean Rich's blog that Edmonton is the one that got peeved because they were mad that Williams was coming here.

How does that make sense? I really don't know because if they were upset they could just trade for Williams straight up. Only way this makes sense is if the Oil had known Kotalik would take a 2nd rounder but didn't want to give up their own while Carolina would give up Williams and their own for an impending UFA. Still find this story hard to believe unless the original target on Carolina was someone other than Williams when Edmonton originally came on board.

As for Rich Hammond's blog, how many times do I need to say on here that Dean and Terry tell him what they want us to hear. Nobody has flipped out when he's reported line combinations from practice and then they are different when the game starts so why start flipping out now?

I don't think either of them has lost credibility; if you feel that either of them have then you gave them too much respect to begin with. Rich is a reporter and reports on what he sees and/or is told while Dean is running a professional sports team/business in which secrecy is highly valued. We're talking about a sport where nobody has had a specific injury for the last 8 years but rather a "lower body injury" and you want to slam the guy for not tipping his hand? These GM's are playing poker with eachother, a game of who blinks first and you are upset that he doesn't run to Rich and tell him what hand he is playing?

As someone who does not practice journalism but earned a degree in it (with an emphasis on Public Relations), I can say with 100% certainty that both of these guys are doing their jobs properly. Rich reports what he is told as a journalist, although tougher questions could be asked, and DL uses it as a public relations tool. Realize this and stop turning the whole thing into an episode of Melrose Place.

With that knowledge, you need to make the call on this 2nd round pick nonsense. Rich is reporting what he was told by the main source himself, a source that uses the blog as a PR tool. It looks to me like DL is covering his ass with the fanbase because I can guarantee that the man obsessed with assets did not want to give up that pick. The pick was the sticking point because Edmonton wouldn't make the move because they wanted Kotalik as well but not at the price of their own 2nd rounder for a UFA. DL wanted Williams but Carolina did not want O'Sullivan...it was deemed that Williams was the best player in the deal even with the injury concerns so DL had to pony up.

As for the trade, I reacted violently to it and was a ***** at work the rest of the day. I officially put the fork in them last night but it was still a gut-punch to have management do it for me right before two big games at Staples. We have 7 home games left and I don't really care about them as much anymore...also great timing with my renewal package coming last night!

As others have mentioned, it all depends on a return to form of Williams. Big gamble and not the best use of assets in my opinion due to the risks involved.

As for Moller, I've been a huge proponent of him being sent back to the WHL, then to the WJC and then back to the WHL. It was only one game last night, but he was DANGEROUS out there. Great vision during one of the only time the Kings had dominated in the CBJ zone 5-on-5 and the goal was a direct result of his hard-nosed and smart play to Frolov before that. I will not be surprised if he matches O'Sullivan numbers-wise while providing leadership as well.

My favorite part of the trade is that I feel DL has made a decision on Frolov as part of the "core", if you want to talk about the core anymore. O'Sullivan is out and Frolov is in I believe which I think all of us would be excited about.

I'm mainly bothered by the 10 points JW has put up this year in 30 games. Many of you seem to think he's been out all year but he hasn't been: it just seems that way. Looks like a Handzus ****-sandwich season but Zeus had 82 games and the following Summer to get back in game shape...Williams has 30 games and a very important Summer. I'm worried he won't be up to speed until 2010-11.

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Old
03-04-2009, 11:11 PM
  #181
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zad View Post
lol

I just got an image of Sully in the shootout trying to go high glove on Quick.

LMAO!

Hey, if you can't laugh at these things...
It may come with time, but I can't laugh right now.

Maybe I need more sake!

Zad, are you going to be there Thursday or Saturday?


P.S. I want to call my old season seat rep and ask if I can trade my O'Sullivan jersey in for someone like . . . well I better limit it to Calder or Gauthier. I mean I bought it because they said he was a core player for the future!

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Old
03-04-2009, 11:13 PM
  #182
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it's interesting that the onus is NEVER on the player for some of you.

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Old
03-04-2009, 11:15 PM
  #183
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Tell me you are not talking about your ticket rep
I dont need a ticket rep.

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Old
03-04-2009, 11:18 PM
  #184
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Originally Posted by VictoryRose View Post
Just maybe, getting Kovy isn't in the plans. Just a thought?
I would have to say that's much more than likely than landing Kovalchuk is.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DIEHARD the King Fan
This is the roll of the dice of a riverboat gambler, and we have been burned by DL's injury gambles before. Beyond that, even if you were going to trade Sully, wouldn't he have been far more valuable to a team like Atlanta, packaged with prospects and picks for Kovalchuk than a risky trade like this? I think this trade will severely hinder our chances of landing Kovy on draft day without giving up Frolov or Brown.
But doesn't this trade just illustrate that O'Sullivan isn't good enough to be the centerpiece of a trade for a talent like Kovalchuk?

Even those who love Sully would be hard pressed to say you can build an offense around him. He is a support scorer, and he showed zero signs of chemistry with well... anyone on the team. He got shuffled the most, and I think for good reason. No matter who he played with, no one could get a read off him. Either he was THAT good, or he just is not a good fit anymore.

As for him being a core player, I think if you had done some real critical thinking about how many core players there really are, you would have realized Sully was never one of them. I certainly never thought he was, and you were being admittedly optimistic. My friend did the same as you and bought an O'Sullivan jersey a month ago.

I think a core can only consist of 5-7 players, and I put Kopitar/Brown/Doughty/Johnson/Quick/Greene/Stoll and even Moller before O'Sullivan. He's a wicked talent who has not proven he will reach his potential, whatever that realistically is. I'm not trying to knock O'Sullivan at all... at least not in this post... really just trying to say that we have prospects like Moller and hopefully Purcell who can step in for O'Sullivan, but there is no one to stick into Kopitar/Brown/Doughty/Johnson/Quick/Greene/Stoll's roll. Well, maybe Drewiske or Tuebert can ultimately replace Greene, or Lewis can replace Stoll, but those aren't for sure, and they definately won't be ready immediately, the way Moller is ready to step in for O'Sullivan.

Unless O'Sullivan is playing with Hemsky (which will greatly inflate his totals, because Hemsky is a wizard) all next year, I'd venture to guess Moller scores about as much him next year.

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Old
03-04-2009, 11:20 PM
  #185
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There's a point that has yet to be brought up. Even if Williams is healthy for a full season there's no guarantee he reverts back to his 05-06 form. Watching him play, all be it for a limited time, the guy looks like a shell of the player he use to be. Trading a young player with the upside of Sully should be for a proven scorer. Not for a guy with as many questions as the guy you are giving up on. The deal makes little sense to me.

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Old
03-04-2009, 11:22 PM
  #186
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Originally Posted by JDM View Post
Unless O'Sullivan is playing with Hemsky
Phaneuf, Regher, Bieksa, and Brent Burns are all licking their lips.

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03-04-2009, 11:25 PM
  #187
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JDM View Post

Even those who love Sully would be hard pressed to say you can build an offense around him. He is a support scorer, and he showed zero signs of chemistry with well... anyone on the team. He got shuffled the most, and I think for good reason. No matter who he played with, no one could get a read off him. Either he was THAT good, or he just is not a good fit anymore.

BRILLIANCE!

that is exactly the way i've felt about him ALL season, and in particular, over the last month.

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Old
03-04-2009, 11:25 PM
  #188
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Originally Posted by DIEHARD the King fan View Post
It may come with time, but I can't laugh right now.

Maybe I need more sake!

Zad, are you going to be there Thursday or Saturday?


P.S. I want to call my old season seat rep and ask if I can trade my O'Sullivan jersey in for someone like . . . well I better limit it to Calder or Gauthier. I mean I bought it because they said he was a core player for the future!
I will be there on Saturday. Section 301 (whichever one is dead center), first row.

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Old
03-04-2009, 11:29 PM
  #189
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I think even DIEHARD will agree on one thing:

Sully never had that "it" factor...assuming you know what "it" is.

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03-04-2009, 11:30 PM
  #190
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Originally Posted by VictoryRose View Post
Phaneuf, Regher, Bieksa, and Brent Burns are all licking their lips.
Hahaha, Sully does fit with Edmonton. I hate Edmonton. Softies. Edmonton likes softies, we don't. That why they gave us their two grittiest players.

Like it or not, and most all of you say you like it, the direction this club is being built in is NOT a skill team or a puck possession team. We are being built as a hard nosed in your face team. Granted they haven't played like it lately, but Williams fits that mold and Sully doesn't.

I'll be glad not get pushed around by Clowe, Michalek, Doan and Getzlaugh anymore.

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03-04-2009, 11:31 PM
  #191
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Originally Posted by wabwat View Post
BRILLIANCE!

that is exactly the way i've felt about him ALL season, and in particular, over the last month.
It was hinted on HNIC today that POS did not like playing in LA. He was interviewed on the phone and sounded dissapointed IMO. I just never imagined a guy at his age with his front loaded deal would be dealt for a guy who has the longest list of injuries I've seen since Aaron Miller, who's older and makes MORE money. I actually believe this deal has more to do with the emergence of Oscar Moller than anything else. I'm telling you this guy is the next Martin Straka, still hate the POS trade though.

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03-04-2009, 11:32 PM
  #192
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Originally Posted by wabwat View Post
BRILLIANCE!

that is exactly the way i've felt about him ALL season, and in particular, over the last month.
Exactly the way I feel three.

O'Sullivan is a very good young player and he has all the talent in the world but he just does not fit this team anymore. Terry Murray is All System All The Time and O'Sullivan was the definition of a square peg to Murray's round hole. And on top of that, O'Sullivan missed camp which further alienated him from the coaching staff's plans.

Frolov is the perfect example of a player contouring his skills to the new team philosophy aka O'Sullivan's antithesis. Frolov was all but left for dead come the start of the season and what did the Mad Russian do? He evolved. I've never been more proud of the doofy sonuvagun.

Acquiring Justin Williams is the single biggest step Lombardi has made in turning this team into a contender. Count on that.

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03-04-2009, 11:32 PM
  #193
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Hahaha, Sully does fit with Edmonton. I hate Edmonton. Softies. Edmonton likes softies, we don't. That why they gave us their two grittiest players.

Like it or not, and most all of you say you like it, the direction this club is being built in is NOT a skill team or a puck possession team. We are being built as a hard nosed in your face team. Granted they haven't played like it lately, but Williams fits that mold and Sully doesn't.

I'll be glad not get pushed around by Clowe, Michalek, Doan and Getzlaugh anymore.
I recall another time this team took the non-skill, non puck possession, but hard nosed mold - 93-94.

I actually think you are wrong though. Justin Williams is first and foremost (when healthy) a first line winger on most teams and a hell of a talent.

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03-04-2009, 11:34 PM
  #194
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Hahaha, Sully does fit with Edmonton. I hate Edmonton. Softies. Edmonton likes softies, we don't. That why they gave us their two grittiest players.
The toughest guys that I personally have ever played with have almost always been from somewhere between Kamloops and Winnipeg.

Weird how Edmonton's org has this fascination with skill skill skill, even with Souray, they knew they were getting someone that was prettier than he was dirty.
Makes me wonder what's taking so long for Schremp to crack the top line.

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Old
03-04-2009, 11:34 PM
  #195
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Originally Posted by Zad View Post
lol

I just got an image of Sully in the shootout trying to go high glove on Quick.

LMAO!

Hey, if you can't laugh at these things...
Hey, what is life without humor !

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03-04-2009, 11:35 PM
  #196
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I actually think you are wrong though. Justin Williams is first and foremost (when healthy) a first line winger on most teams and a hell of a talent.
He's also a tough son of a ***** that doesnt pivot at the first sign of trouble.

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03-04-2009, 11:36 PM
  #197
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I feel punked by rich's blog...

when I read the yesterday "That one seemingly took a wrong turn at Albuquerque, to paraphrase Bugs Bunny" I was like.. who's williams?

Now I read it was all just a shtick... damn..

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03-04-2009, 11:36 PM
  #198
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It was hinted on HNIC today that POS did not like playing in LA. He was interviewed on the phone and sounded dissapointed IMO. I just never imagined a guy at his age with his front loaded deal would be dealt for a guy who has the longest list of injuries I've seen since Aaron Miller, who's older and makes MORE money. I actually believe this deal has more to do with the emergence of Oscar Moller than anything else. I'm telling you this guy is the next Martin Straka, still hate the POS trade though.
A greatly ignored point today. Moller is top 6 and should have a spot there. If we look at just this season, comparing Sully and Moller, Oscar has proven more effective on the PP, grittier in general, about as good defensively, and shown better chemistry with the team and adaptation to the system than Sully. I also love Oscars attitude and never cared for SUlly's that much.

I don't know about the Straka comparison though, I think Oscar is more of a shooter than Straka ever was.

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03-04-2009, 11:38 PM
  #199
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So, will we be seeing old Dave Tiger "Williams" jerseys making a comeback at Staples? Who has one of those?

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03-04-2009, 11:38 PM
  #200
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Interesting!

NHL Network thinks Sully has a great upside than most people think and don't understand why we have to pull the trigger. Like I said, players who miss training camp usually underachieves and rebounds the next.

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