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Upshall-Carcillo Discussion; UPDATE (post #862) McLaren trade is nullified

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Old
03-04-2009, 11:16 PM
  #301
IrishSniper87
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Originally Posted by FlyHigh View Post
Because that's worked so much in the past.
Not with Downie, lol.

But who other then Downie was a problem??? Plus, he got shown the door when he didnt wise up.

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03-04-2009, 11:16 PM
  #302
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Originally Posted by MiamiScreamingEagles View Post
Agreed. I thought he was especially fantastic last night.
I don't think he's ever going to rise above you wanting him on the 4th line, but he clearly plays smart and with spunk. Thus why Metro is gone.

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03-04-2009, 11:17 PM
  #303
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Originally Posted by MiamiScreamingEagles View Post
Agreed. I thought he was especially fantastic last night.
I can't remember who it was on or where it happened, but he had a couple really nice hits last night where I was just like, "Holy crap, Darroll Powe!" and got dirty looks from everybody else in the section.

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03-04-2009, 11:18 PM
  #304
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Originally Posted by IrishSniper87 View Post
Not with Downie, lol.

But who other then Downie was a problem??? Plus, he got shown the door when he didnt wise up.
Most of our current team. We earn the majority of our minors.

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03-04-2009, 11:19 PM
  #305
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
shootouts are meaningless. look no further to the struggles of Jussi Jokinen.

Additionally...PHX blows and has blown...it isn't like its a competitive depth chart down there.


I wouldn't want to be losing many shootouts in the West right now. Tampa blows too, but Downie is still shuttling to Norfolk.

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03-04-2009, 11:20 PM
  #306
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Originally Posted by Cinerary View Post
I saw Upshall's interview with Boruk too. He's pretty composed through most of it, but then at the end, Boruk asks Scottie if he has anything to say to the fans, and Scottie turns away and starts getting choked up. Really sad.

What did he say to the fans?

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03-04-2009, 11:20 PM
  #307
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The 2nd is hard to swallow - I guess Gretzky liked the guy more than we think. Upshall for Carcillo would have been fine but you have to figure Phoenix wanted something else because of the salary and contract status differences. I'm sure Homer didn't just say "uuuuh, ok wayne I'll give you a 2nd..." he probably started with a much lower pick/player and Wayne didn't bite.

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03-04-2009, 11:20 PM
  #308
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I echo the sentiments of everyone saying we're going to love Carcillo. He was by far my favorite Coyote and he's been a lot of fun to watch in the five or so PHX games i've gone to this year. From the first time I saw him play I knew he was going to be a Flyer some day, didn't think it would be this soon though.

He was a fan favorite out here and some of my Coyote fan friends are already cheering for us now that he's here. Says a lot about him imo.


Last edited by Mr Oysterhead: 03-04-2009 at 11:29 PM.
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03-04-2009, 11:20 PM
  #309
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IrishSniper87 View Post
Not with Downie, lol.

But who other then Downie was a problem??? Plus, he got shown the door when he didnt wise up.
Hartnell, Coburn, Carter, Knuble, Alberts.

This team takes dumb minor penalties like nobody's business.

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03-04-2009, 11:21 PM
  #310
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Carcillo is going to make most people forget about Upshall very very quickly. He's really kind of a cross betwen Hartnell and Downie. He's a better player than Downie AND Upshall but not qhite as big as Hartnell (5'11" vs 6'2" I think, about 5-10 lbs difference too). Many of you wanted more grit, well you got it right here.


Upshall was gone at the end of this season anyways, there was little chance that we could have retained him at his expected raise up to 2-2.5 mil per season. Upshall would have returned us a 2nd at best, that's about all his value would have been.

So basically, Carcillo most likely cost us 2 2nd rnd picks, that's not too bad. He's a decent player who can play top 9, will bang in the corners and in front of the net, and will drop the gloves. It's much much better for us to have someone like Carcillo fighting someone like Avery than Richards or Hartnell, remember that guys. Carcillo is still on his entry level contract through next season and he will likely be looking at about the same contract Upshall has right now for his next contract. We NEED to have some quality players who are cheap and can fit around our higher priced guys, that's exactly what we got here with Carcillo.

This was not a trade made to make us better for a playoff run, that was done with getting Briere back in the lineup. This was done so that we could get something for Upshall before we lost him for nothing and so that we could keep as much of the existing crew together for next year and still sign us a goalie. We are a better team being able to keep Lupul over Upshall, we are a better team if we can now trade Jones instead of having to trade Carle to free up cap space before free agency. This is likely to be about a 1.5 mil cap savings next season and about 1 mil for the next 2-3 after that.

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Old
03-04-2009, 11:23 PM
  #311
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyHigh View Post
I can't remember who it was on or where it happened, but he had a couple really nice hits last night where I was just like, "Holy crap, Darroll Powe!" and got dirty looks from everybody else in the section.
You missed the Jack Edwards "He lives up to his name" comment. I could only imagine what "Jeff Beukeboom" would have elicited.

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Old
03-04-2009, 11:24 PM
  #312
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Originally Posted by Mountaineer View Post
The 2nd is hard to swallow - I guess Gretzky liked the guy more than we think.
I think the second might be more indicative of how high our management thinks of Carcillo. I don't want to totally dismiss your point, I just got the feeling that Gretzky wasn't a fan of danny.

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03-04-2009, 11:25 PM
  #313
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I'm willing to give him a chance, I'm hearing good things.

Good luck, Scottie! Will miss him for sure.

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03-04-2009, 11:25 PM
  #314
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On the note of contracts, from the time our season ends, until July 1, this team's full attention will be on goaltending - as far as signing one. No RFA's to sign (from the pro roster), a few UFA's, all of which are unlikely to return aside from one of the goalies.

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03-04-2009, 11:25 PM
  #315
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MiamiScreamingEagles View Post
You missed the Jack Edwards "He lives up to his name" comment. I could only imagine what "Jeff Beukeboom" would have elicited.
Most underrated part of going to Bruins games: Missing Jacko.

I heard he went beserk after Chara took out Richards too (which was admittedly a solid hit).

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03-04-2009, 11:25 PM
  #316
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Originally Posted by phlocky View Post
Carcillo is going to make most people forget about Upshall very very quickly. He's really kind of a cross betwen Hartnell and Downie. He's a better player than Downie AND Upshall but not qhite as big as Hartnell (5'11" vs 6'2" I think, about 5-10 lbs difference too). Many of you wanted more grit, well you got it right here.


Upshall was gone at the end of this season anyways, there was little chance that we could have retained him at his expected raise up to 2-2.5 mil per season. Upshall would have returned us a 2nd at best, that's about all his value would have been.

So basically, Carcillo most likely cost us 2 2nd rnd picks, that's not too bad. He's a decent player who can play top 9, will bang in the corners and in front of the net, and will drop the gloves. It's much much better for us to have someone like Carcillo fighting someone like Avery than Richards or Hartnell, remember that guys. Carcillo is still on his entry level contract through next season and he will likely be looking at about the same contract Upshall has right now for his next contract. We NEED to have some quality players who are cheap and can fit around our higher priced guys, that's exactly what we got here with Carcillo.

This was not a trade made to make us better for a playoff run, that was done with getting Briere back in the lineup. This was done so that we could get something for Upshall before we lost him for nothing and so that we could keep as much of the existing crew together for next year and still sign us a goalie. We are a better team being able to keep Lupul over Upshall, we are a better team if we can now trade Jones instead of having to trade Carle to free up cap space before free agency. This is likely to be about a 1.5 mil cap savings next season and about 1 mil for the next 2-3 after that.
Good point.

Solid post, too.

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Old
03-04-2009, 11:29 PM
  #317
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Originally Posted by Bob Clarke Fan Club View Post
I wouldn't want to be losing many shootouts in the West right now. Tampa blows too, but Downie is still shuttling to Norfolk.
That's not the point. Skill in the shootout does not equate to skill in game situations.

Downie should have been left in the AHL all of last year. In two years, I'll be relatively shocked if he isn't a full-timer barring him getting himself arrested.

Quote:
Originally Posted by phlocky View Post
Upshall was gone at the end of this season anyways, there was little chance that we could have retained him at his expected raise up to 2-2.5 mil per season. Upshall would have returned us a 2nd at best, that's about all his value would have been.
He's a RFA who MAY have gotten himself to 30 points. Upshall was not looking at a significant raise...and likely never would have.

If you're concern is escalating salary, then keeping Upshall made a lot more sense than trading him.

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03-04-2009, 11:29 PM
  #318
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I started to get a headache after getting to the 3rd page of this thread so im gonna chime in now.
Im with many people who said Im alright with this deal if it didnt include the 2nd round pick in 2011. We just cant keep our 2nd round picks can we? unreal.
Anyway I really like Carcillo. He is going to bring it every single night, and I really believe he will be a fan favorite. He is coming to a city that is passionate about hockey and their team. He is going to feed off that. I will say this If he is on the line with Briere and Giroux, I dont think anyone is going to take any stupid runs at Giroux and get away with it.
As far as the money goes, I think this was done for next season. I think Upshall was looking at 2 million at least anyway. I am going to miss Upshall, but I am not totally ticked off at losing him. I wish him the best of luck in Phoenix.
I am meh with keeping Cote around thou, Carcillo is a far better hockey player then him so if it were me id send him to the Phantoms and be done with it.
Mclaren is a decent addition if anything he will bring leadship to the Phantoms something they need down there. Bring him up for the playoffs and he can be a 7/8 guy. He is a better option then using a forward on D(2004 ring a bell)

One last thing, gotta say I was pretty annoyed with the site crash today, I figured all the server upgrades and everything else would have prevented it. But im over it. no biggie now.

btw Phoenix is in Boston on Thursday. I would imagine he would be in the lineup for Phoenix who look vastly differant right now adding Lombardi,Prust,Dawes,Prucha and Upshall.

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03-04-2009, 11:31 PM
  #319
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Good point.

Solid post, too.
Until they remove the instigator. It's a meaningless point.

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03-04-2009, 11:37 PM
  #320
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Until they remove the instigator. It's a meaningless point.
Not necessarily. It's irrelevant in the playoffs, since I don't expect any fighting majors in the post-season, but if Carcillo participates in a couple fights that Richards/Hartnell would normally be in, then I won't be complaining.

Most of Richards' fights have been reactionary, so it might not matter, but it is nice to have another option so our scoring forwards don't spend five minutes in the box or get injured from a fight.

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03-04-2009, 11:38 PM
  #321
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Very anxious to see Carcillo in the Orange and Black - his grit is certainly welcome.

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03-04-2009, 11:42 PM
  #322
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I'm not sure if this has been posted here but this is from Sam C. at the Inquirer.:




http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/i...t_Bullies.html
Quote:


While many of the Eastern Conference contenders got better today, the Flyers took a step backward.
All because they were backed into a corner by their lack of cap space.
So they traded energetic winger Scottie Upshall to Phoenix for tough-guy winger Dan Carcillo, the NHL’s leader with 174 penalty minutes .
My first reaction: The Broad Street Bullies are being resurrected _ and that won’t work in today’s speed-first NHL.(Carcillo and Flyers winger Riley Cote are second in the NHL with 18 fights each.)
Still, general manager Paul Holmgren deserves a mulligan. In two years, he has transformed the Flyers from a laughing stock to one of the Eastern Conference’s elite teams.
One bad week _ and it was a forgettable one for the man they call Homer _ shouldn’t mask his superb two-plus years as the Flyers’ GM.
Cap mismanagement caused the Flyers to dump salaries in the last week. In order to activate Danny Briere, they tried to slip popular veterans Glen Metropolit and Ossi Vaananen through waivers, but both were claimed.
Then the Flyers had to send flashy Claude Giroux _ one of their most productive players recently _ to the minors so they could call up a defenseman to temporarily replace the flu-ridden Kimmo Timonen.
And today they traded Upshall _ whose speed and hustle will be missed in the playoffs _ for a player who has three goals and a reputation for taking foolish penalties.
Oh, and the Flyers also had to throw in a 2011 second-round draft pick.
Talk about overpaying!
So, in the last week, the Flyers’ close-knit chemistry has been shaken and they have lost considerable depth.

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03-04-2009, 11:44 PM
  #323
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Spoken like a true Philly fan... That's a pretty reactionary article

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03-04-2009, 11:54 PM
  #324
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[QUOTE=Jester;18351862]That's not the point. Skill in the shootout does not equate to skill in game situations.

Downie should have been left in the AHL all of last year. In two years, I'll be relatively shocked if he isn't a full-timer barring him getting himself arrested.



Then why do all of our skill guys do shootout duties? Not counting Hartnell. Besides...a point is a point, it's how they decide payoff spots, so it is relevant.

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03-04-2009, 11:54 PM
  #325
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Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post
He was sent because he sucks. Or else the Sharks wouldn't be replacing him with Brad Lukowich (a favorite missed target of mine in the past). His play totally dropped off.

And I'd say 2nd round picks do matter, they're not gold, but to say 'who cares,' just look at some recent guys who were drafted in the 2nd round in recent years. Paul Stastny, Patrice Bergeron, Matt Carle, Patrick O'Sullivan, Milan Lucic, Shea Weber, Fedor Tyutin....these are guys we're missing out on. Could you imagine if we had Shea Weber? Our defense would be set for 10 years.
In that case I guess we shouldn't trade 6th round draft picks either, might miss out on the next Pavel Datsyuk. I agree that we probably paid more for Carcillo then we should have, but if Upshall was moved it likely means he wouldn't have been re-signed anyways, and now we have a guy I can't wait to watch.

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