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Upshall-Carcillo Discussion; UPDATE (post #862) McLaren trade is nullified

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Old
03-04-2009, 11:54 PM
  #326
CharlieGirl
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Oysterhead View Post
Spoken like a true Philly fan... That's a pretty reactionary article
Also very true.

- Carcillo does take a lot of stupid penalties and has 3 goals on the season
- The Flyers’ close-knit chemistry has been shaken and they have lost considerable depth in the last week
- The Flyers overpaid for Carcillo

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03-04-2009, 11:56 PM
  #327
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
That's not the point. Skill in the shootout does not equate to skill in game situations.

Downie should have been left in the AHL all of last year. In two years, I'll be relatively shocked if he isn't a full-timer barring him getting himself arrested.



He's a RFA who MAY have gotten himself to 30 points. Upshall was not looking at a significant raise...and likely never would have.

If you're concern is escalating salary, then keeping Upshall made a lot more sense than trading him.

Even if Upshall only gets raised to about 1.75 mil (and remember, Metro got 1 mil as a 4th line player) then Carcillo is STILL about 1 mil cheaper. Thus, you are wrong in thinking it's better to keep Upshall than to trade him for Carcillo.

The ONLY freaking thing that Upshall added of any value at all to the team was being sandpaper against the other team. He couldn't work the corners, he couldn't work the front of the net, he couldn't set up plays, he wasn't a PK or PP specialist, he wasn't a solid defensive or even 2-way forward, and he wasn't a goal scorer. He was an energy guy who flew around the ice trying to agitate the other team, he flopped on the ice, and when he tried to check he more often than not ended up knocking himself down rather than the other guy. Giroux does absolutely EVERYTHING that Upshall does only better EXCEPT for being a little pain in the ass. In 2 months Giroux has thrown more EFFECTIVE checks than Upshall has in 2 years. Personally, I'm GLAD we have Giroux here to take Upshalls job and that we can now add a player like Carcillo to do some of the dirty work in the corners and in front of the net.

For a guy who has consistantly *****ed at us for NOT having any players who can do this other than Hartnell and Knuble (a player we are likely losing in the off-season) you sure aren't happy when we take care of that area are you. Do you really just like to ***** all the time or what? Honestly, what is it??? I'd like to know. This guy is EXACTLY the type of player that you've *****ed about us not having enough of. This was the main reason you said that trading Downie was so stupid. Well guess what, this guy is a better player than Downie and he's smarter too. That makes him more effective than Downie at doing that job but that's not good enough for you. Why??? Honestly, the only reason I can come to is that you just like to ***** all the time.

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03-04-2009, 11:57 PM
  #328
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I haven't been able to post all day. Here's my take. I'm angry. Don't read the rest if you love this deal.

We are not as good as we were at the start of the day. We took a step back.

Carcillo is Downie without the offensive potential and has the ability to kill a guy at a moment's notice. Check his list of suspensions in the OHL. Vicious, vicious stick stuff.

He's the same height but a little heavier than Upshall. He's slower. He's massively dumber. For a team that already takes a lot of penalties based on reputation and stupidity - prepare for it to get worse. From everything I've ever seen he's a selfish player.

We traded a guy who would do anything for this team, was beloved by most of the fans and a good friend to his teammates. We picked up a guy who only cares about himself. I was counting on Upshall reprising his role from last year's playoffs. I could care less about his offensive production, he was a solid third line role player. Carcillo is a thug. This BS about 20 goal potential is just that - BS.

If I see one person who hated on Downie but loves Carcillo - go **** yourself and die. ****ing hypocrites.

I could maybe...MAYBE understand a straight swap of players. Carcillo is not worth Upshall, but I understand we were against the cap so maybe it had to be made. But to throw in a 2nd rounder when Upshall is already overpayment from a value standpoint - **** you Holmgren.

I couldn't give a **** what anybody else thinks of this deal. It's horrible. Carter, Richards, and Parent know Carcillo from the OHL and I can guarantee they know he's a piece of trash. Everyone knows it. Their friend was traded for a piece of trash. Way to go, Paul.

And **** you if you don't agree with me.

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Old
03-05-2009, 12:00 AM
  #329
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phlocky View Post
For a guy who has consistantly *****ed at us for NOT having any players who can do this other than Hartnell and Knuble (a player we are likely losing in the off-season) you sure aren't happy when we take care of that area are you. Do you really just like to ***** all the time or what? Honestly, what is it??? I'd like to know. This guy is EXACTLY the type of player that you've *****ed about us not having enough of. This was the main reason you said that trading Downie was so stupid. Well guess what, this guy is a better player than Downie and he's smarter too. That makes him more effective than Downie at doing that job but that's not good enough for you. Why??? Honestly, the only reason I can come to is that you just like to ***** all the time.
No. You couldn't be more wrong.

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03-05-2009, 12:00 AM
  #330
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Until they remove the instigator. It's a meaningless point.
The refs know the instigator penalty is pretty freaking stupid, honestly how many times do they call it a year. We've had what, ONE, Called against us in the last 2 years??? Yeah, I'm freakiong petrified of Carcillo getting 25 insitgator penalties a season and costing us games. It's a valid point and trying to use the NEVER called instigator penalty to refute it is just plain stupid.

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Old
03-05-2009, 12:01 AM
  #331
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Originally Posted by Charlie_Girl View Post
The Flyers’ close-knit chemistry has been shaken and they have lost considerable depth in the last week
Then we might as well never ever make deadline deals. At least no significant ones.

Also are you still under the impression that Carcillo is just a goon? This thread has corrected that misinterpretation dozens of times over.

Edit: Oh ok I realized you're referring to metro and vaananen. Yeah still breaks my heart about vaany.

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03-05-2009, 12:02 AM
  #332
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Here's my take without reading this thread:
I think the Upshall trade is a lateral move. I would have loved to retain Uppy but I don't think this trade is going to change much in the team.
I don't know that much about McLaren but from what I hear he might be a decen addition come playoff time.

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Old
03-05-2009, 12:02 AM
  #333
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What kind of contract will Upshall get, any ideas?

Quote:

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/blogs/2009/...e_volumes.html

On Upshall for Carcillo

I was shocked at Philadelphia's decision to move Scottie Upshall for Daniel Carcillo. Obviously, if it led to some other major deal, all is understood, but Kyle McLaren didn't qualify. Yes, the Flyers are in cap hell, but ask the Penguins what happens when team chemistry is tampered with. Upshall was a huge part of that room, very tight with Mike Richards, Jeff Carter and the rest of the young players who run that team. Carcillo is a difficult fit, a potentially talented player who can be immature. This could be like my Grade 10 science experiment – an explosion waiting to happen.

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Old
03-05-2009, 12:06 AM
  #334
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A potentially talented player who can be immature? You're either talented or not. He's not.

Immature? Hell yes. Worse than Downie could ever be. Trading Downie just looks even more retarded now. We got a worse version of him.


Last edited by Dig Out Your Soul: 03-05-2009 at 12:14 AM.
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Old
03-05-2009, 12:10 AM
  #335
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You know what I think pisses me off the most? Holmgren refuses to admit his mistakes and deal with them. That lazy sack of crap Lupul is about to earn $4.25M a season by floating and only playing when he feels like it. But the inexpensive guy who busts his ass every night gets traded. Brilliant.

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03-05-2009, 12:11 AM
  #336
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Originally Posted by Dig Out Your Soul View Post
A potentially talented player who can be immature? You're either talented or not. He's not.

Immature? Hell yes. Worse than Downie could ever hope to be. Trading Downie just looks even more retarded now. We got a worse version of him.
Dude you're just being silly now. What if someone took that literally? Worse than Downie "could ever hope to be"? Downie could easily land his ass in jail any night he plays a hockey game. Carcillo has played 111 games in 2 years. Hope you're being sarcastic and I'm the dummy.

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Old
03-05-2009, 12:14 AM
  #337
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Originally Posted by BerubeBox View Post
Dude you're just being silly now. What if someone took that literally? Worse than Downie "could ever hope to be"? Downie could easily land his ass in jail any night he plays a hockey game. Carcillo has played 111 games in 2 years. Hope you're being sarcastic and I'm the dummy.
I just ****ed up the sentence, take out the words "hope to". I was typing a mile a minute, I've been waiting all night to get this off my chest.

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03-05-2009, 12:14 AM
  #338
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Originally Posted by Dig Out Your Soul View Post
You know what I think pisses me off the most? Holmgren refuses to admit his mistakes and deal with them. That lazy sack of crap Lupul is about to earn $4.25M a season by floating and only playing when he feels like it. But the inexpensive guy who busts his ass every night gets traded. Brilliant.
I agree with this. I honestly want Lupul out of here. I was REALLY REALLY hoping we would get a trade of Lupul, Carle and a 2010 1st for J-Bo done today. Barring that I hope that we can trade Lupul for a 2nd and the rights to talk to J-Bo in the off-season and to get him signed to a long term deal. Then we just need to get a 2nd or better for Carle and we can STILL be rid of Lupul and Carle, STILL get J-Bo and add in 2 2nds instead of shipping out a 1st instead.

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03-05-2009, 12:16 AM
  #339
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Originally Posted by BrindamoursNose View Post
Why is it against the law to have 3 really tough guys on a roster?
Cote and Asham get beat. Laraque, is really tough. Orr, is really tough. Boggard, is really tough. Cote and Asham are speed bags.

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Old
03-05-2009, 12:18 AM
  #340
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I don't post on these boards often but I do read it very much. That being said I'm sad to see Uppy go.

This is my favorite song from my favorite band - the title says it all....probably shoulda been posted when he was still with this team



Good luck with the Coyotes Scottie, I know you'll still be smashin people up!

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03-05-2009, 12:22 AM
  #341
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hey... just got in and see HF is finally up and running again.

i dont feel like reading through all 7 pages but on comcast sportsnet they had an interview with upshall at the airport and it was very emotional. he seemed really upset he traded and called philly fans the best in hockey and felt like he was like family with the guys in the locker room.

sad to see him go.

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03-05-2009, 12:25 AM
  #342
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This reminds me of Patriots fans *****ing and being upset when they thought they had over paid for Wes Welker. Totally different situation, I know, but the moral of the story is that if management is high on a guy take some time to watch him play before saying we overpaid.

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03-05-2009, 12:25 AM
  #343
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Dunno if it has been posted yet:


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Old
03-05-2009, 12:27 AM
  #344
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Originally Posted by BlackTuuk View Post
Cote and Asham get beat. Laraque, is really tough. Orr, is really tough. Boggard, is really tough. Cote and Asham are speed bags.
How is Asham a "speed bag"?

Why are Flyer fans so unhappy if we don't have a top 3/top 4 enforcer?

I hear the same big names over and over and nobody seems to understand that there are 30 teams and that means there are at least 30 rankings for enforcers. Boohoo we don't have one of the Top Five. There's this weird sense of entitlement that comes along with being a Flyer fan that isn't rational at all.

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03-05-2009, 12:27 AM
  #345
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People are overreacting to this trade. Yeah I think it was stupid and unnecessary and I'm just as mad as anyone about the 2nd rounder, but its not like Upshall was lighting up the league. He was a 3rd line, "energy" player, who is very replaceable. Carcillo may help this team who knows and if I was GM I would have never done this trade. I'm gonna miss Uppy but he was way overrated.

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03-05-2009, 12:28 AM
  #346
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I don't understand this move whatsoever. I can see someone arguing that Upshall->Carcillo is a lateral move. However, I would much rather have Upshall, he provides a lot of energy with a lot less risk (with slightly higher offensive upside in my opinion).

It doesn't take much to know Upshall was also very close with the core of this team. If we're trading Upshall and a pick is involved, it better be coming our way. I had to double take the trade, it should have been Carcillo+2nd...

Gretz would at least yell like a mad dog at Carcillo to keep him somewhat in check, I can't see Stevens being able to handle him.

I really like watching Carcillo, he's exciting, but i'm already fearing the amount of games we'll lose due to boneheaded plays by him. We have enough of those already.

As for Kyle Mclaren, whatever I guess. I can't argue with cheap depth (though i'd probably prefer a call up to Mclaren)...or better yet! Keep Ossi?

I'm starting to question Holmgren's "plan". I think most people (myself included) go back to the same o'l argument with Holmgren every single time. "Well he certainly turned this team around." If he doesn't trade to improve, we could be finding ourselves battling for a last playoff spot in a few years....Dramatic? Yes. But I seriously question Holmgren's asset management. I am almost flabbergasted that there is a good chance Lupul will be making 4.25-.5? next year playing for our team. I sincerely hope Stevens at least keeps him on the 2nd line to produce.

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Old
03-05-2009, 12:28 AM
  #347
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I think most of us wish Lupul had been traded somewhere instead, you aren't alone Soul.

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Old
03-05-2009, 12:29 AM
  #348
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Originally Posted by Dig Out Your Soul View Post
I just ****ed up the sentence, take out the words "hope to". I was typing a mile a minute, I've been waiting all night to get this off my chest.
Dude go out and have a drink or smoke a fat j.

You are seriously overreacting.

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Old
03-05-2009, 12:30 AM
  #349
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Originally Posted by BerubeBox View Post
How is Asham a "speed bag"?

Why are Flyer fans so unhappy if we don't have a top 3/top 4 enforcer?

I hear the same big names over and over and nobody seems to understand that there are 30 teams and that means there are at least 30 rankings for enforcers. Boohoo we don't have one of the Top Five. There's this weird sense of entitlement that comes along with being a Flyer fan that isn't rational at all.
Asham is the top middleweight in the league and he is a "speed bag"

Flyers fans are acting like retards today. I know everyone is upset to see Scottie go but Jesus Christ people are acting like their mom just died.

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Old
03-05-2009, 12:31 AM
  #350
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Originally Posted by nevermore View Post
Dunno if it has been posted yet:

I hope we get Scottie back somehow. He's part of a long line of grit/energy fan favorites that includes Ricci, Podein, and other guys I can't think of right now.

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