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Carcillo to Flyers for Upshall and 2011 2nd Rd. Pick

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Old
03-05-2009, 03:55 PM
  #51
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Originally Posted by CoyotesVisitor View Post
Ha! Silly flyers fan. I see that you are thinking like a traditional hockey fan, who roots for a team that plays traditional hockey and has discernable "lines."

We have The Great One as our coach. We don't believe in lines.

Carcillo has played with pretty much everyone, from the first to fourth line, depending on what Gretz had for breakfast that morning and whatever hunch he is playing that moment.
To be fair. He did have a good hunch...once.

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03-05-2009, 03:59 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by k1llua View Post
To be fair. He did have a good hunch...once.
You mean on the shootout? Good point, although I fully expect that one point is going to cost us a spot in the draft, and probably the next franchise player. Thanks a lot, coach.

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Old
03-05-2009, 04:06 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by zyllyx View Post
He's not a top 12 caliber forward. There, I said it.

His two-cent head when he gets upset will forever prevent him from becoming anything more than a low-end energy player.
You need to realize that just because this franchise doesn't value toughness, that doesn't mean that's how the rest of the league works. Philly gave up Upshall and a solid pick for Carcillo, and that is a franchise that is light years beyond the Yotes in terms of success, so odds are they know what they're doing.

Also, he's actually a high-end energy player, which is why he has pretty substantial value. He is one of the more skilled agitators/fighters in this league.

You say he isn't a top 12 forward, so let's take a look. I just went through every team's roster, along with which guys are currently in their top 12, and there isn't ONE team that he would be 13th or beyond. So that being said, please offer all of these teams that he wouldn't be a top 12 guy on. I know you'll say Detroit, but there are two things to consider there. First, a guy like this would be very valuable in that they have no such thing (they currently have Downey in the lineup who is terrible). Also, with the talent there, his point production would likely be closer to what he did last season than this one.

You've made 2 derogatory comments about Carcillo in this thread, and none about Upshall, so I can take what I can from that. As I mentioned above, Upshall has EIGHT more bad penalties this year than Carcillo. How come no one mentions the fact that Upshall is a liability? In that you seem to be SO bothered by bad penalties, you should be cursing the fact that Upshall's here in that he takes MORE than Carcillo, but instead you take the time to jab Carcillo again. Upshall had 14 goals last year, and Carcillo had 13 in fewer games. That and Upshall currently makes 50% more money than Carcillo, and will likely be seeking close to twice as much.

If you want to say Upshall is a better player, or that the pick makes this deal worth it, that's fine; both are fair points. But to knock Carcillo for bad penalties when Upshall has nearly twice as many is just ridiculous. It'd be like a 600 pound guy calling a 400 pound guy fat.

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03-05-2009, 04:21 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by BGDDYKWL View Post
You need to realize that just because this franchise doesn't value toughness, that doesn't mean that's how the rest of the league works. Philly gave up Upshall and a solid pick for Carcillo, and that is a franchise that is light years beyond the Yotes in terms of success, so odds are they know what they're doing.
If they're dumb enough to send us a 2nd rounder for Carcillo, I'll take it.

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Originally Posted by BGDDYKWL View Post
You've made 2 derogatory comments about Carcillo in this thread, and none about Upshall, so I can take what I can from that.
Because I don't know a lot about Upshall. If his head is worth two cents like Carcillo's, I won't like him either.

As far as Carcillo being a fan favorite, all it will take is putting another guy in the lineup who'll fight to get them to change allegiances. Hell, people apparently forgot Tyson Nash pretty quickly (although I didn't - Nash is the kind of agitator I would love to see the Coyotes get), didn't they?

The bottom line with Daniel Carcillo is that he's probably a great guy when he's calm, but he's got a tiny, tiny fuse, and when he loses it he loses it. He loses his temper, he loses his cognitive ability, he loses whatever judgment he owned. A truly good agitator never loses his senses because he's actively trying to get the other guys to do it.

When Carcillo tried to calm himself so he could score more, we saw what happened - total ineffectiveness.

Philly will love him. And if you miss him so much, I'm sure Center Ice will let you watch Flyers games. I personally think the team is better off getting rid of guys with attitude problems.

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03-05-2009, 04:56 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by zyllyx View Post
If they're dumb enough to send us a 2nd rounder for Carcillo, I'll take it.
Granted the return for Carcillo was decent, but I really do not understand your extreme response to him. He played hard, still has offensive upside and seemed to me to really care. His penalties were really not that bad. If he can just learn to keep his mouth shut a little bit more he will be a good player.

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As far as Carcillo being a fan favorite, all it will take is putting another guy in the lineup who'll fight to get them to change allegiances. Hell, people apparently forgot Tyson Nash pretty quickly (although I didn't - Nash is the kind of agitator I would love to see the Coyotes get), didn't they?
Tyson Nash seems like a nice enough guy off of the ice. On the ice he was a cheap shot artist with no spine. You are right, Nash and Carcillo are very different. Carcillo generally plays a clean game, stands up for himself, stands up for his teammates and has at least a little offensive skill.

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03-05-2009, 05:03 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by yakko View Post
Granted the return for Carcillo was decent, but I really do not understand your extreme response to him. He played hard, still has offensive upside and seemed to me to really care. His penalties were really not that bad. If he can just learn to keep his mouth shut a little bit more he will be a good player.


Tyson Nash seems like a nice enough guy off of the ice. On the ice he was a cheap shot artist with no spine. You are right, Nash and Carcillo are very different. Carcillo generally plays a clean game, stands up for himself, stands up for his teammates and has at least a little offensive skill.
+1.

This throwing carcillo under the bus for the teams problems is ridiculous. Everyone, save few, underachieved and played heartless. I can name many guys who took dumb, lazy penalties this year. Carcillo played with heart, hit people, and certainly wasn't afraid to shoot the puck. The carcillo bashing is total BS and probably desperation to come to terms with what happened yesterday. Quite frankly, it's embarrassing to pin the blame on him. If i'm wrong, please defend it, because carcillo isn't to blame, only convienient.

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Old
03-05-2009, 05:15 PM
  #57
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I don't think this trade was a matter of DM wanting to move Carcillo. I doubt Maloney went into the deadline with trading Carcillo as a priority. I think it was Holmgren calling DM and offering a package that Maloney just couldn't pass up.

Carcillo didn't need to be trade but when you get an offer like that, you just don't say no. Especially where we're at right now.

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Old
03-05-2009, 05:28 PM
  #58
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Hope Upshall does well for you guys... there's pretty much a Civil War going on in the Flyers board over the trade. Half of us really wanted to keep him. He's all heart and plays 24/7 never taking a shift off. He can get a team going. Goodluck!

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Old
03-05-2009, 05:32 PM
  #59
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Yeah, it's Maloney's best deal today. Didnt think Carcillo had much value at all.. was surprised he netted Upshall, then even more surprised to see a 2nd rounder. But it's gutting to realise that it's 2011, THREE drafts away from now! So far off making an impact in the NHL, it's close to irrelevant.

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03-05-2009, 05:33 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by yakko View Post
Granted the return for Carcillo was decent, but I really do not understand your extreme response to him. He played hard, still has offensive upside and seemed to me to really care. His penalties were really not that bad. If he can just learn to keep his mouth shut a little bit more he will be a good player.
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Originally Posted by indczn View Post
This throwing carcillo under the bus for the teams problems is ridiculous.
I think it's public knowledge that since Carcillo started playing for us that I was not on his bandwagon. I could dredge up posts I made back when he played his first games for us that simply restate what I'm saying now.

So I'm not throwing Carcillo under the bus for the current swoon. I just find it as ridiculous as you find my opinion that people are making such a big deal over a guy who, in the grand scheme of things, was essentially a sideshow.

I don't have any romantic notions about fighting hockey players. Maybe that makes me a p*ss-wad to the more "traditional" fans but let's be honest - I became a hockey fan after the lockout, so I appreciate the sport on a different level than the traditionalists. Not better or worse, just different.

I wouldn't be a good Flyers fan, that's for damn sure.

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Old
03-05-2009, 05:37 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by zyllyx View Post
So I'm not throwing Carcillo under the bus for the current swoon. I just find it as ridiculous as you find my opinion that people are making such a big deal over a guy who, in the grand scheme of things, was essentially a sideshow.
He was a sideshow because he had a $.10 head when it came to hockey sense. He didn't have a clue when to take a penalty/start a fight and when not to.

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Old
03-05-2009, 05:41 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by zyllyx View Post
I think it's public knowledge that since Carcillo started playing for us that I was not on his bandwagon. I could dredge up posts I made back when he played his first games for us that simply restate what I'm saying now.
I will give you that. You have had an irrational dislike for him from the beginning.

Quote:
So I'm not throwing Carcillo under the bus for the current swoon. I just find it as ridiculous as you find my opinion that people are making such a big deal over a guy who, in the grand scheme of things, was essentially a sideshow.
How you can say that and support Tyson Nash in the same thread is remarkable juxtaposition to the point of hilarity. Tyson Nash was a cheap shot, minor penalty machine with no offensive ability at all.

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03-05-2009, 05:43 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by zyllyx View Post
I think it's public knowledge that since Carcillo started playing for us that I was not on his bandwagon. I could dredge up posts I made back when he played his first games for us that simply restate what I'm saying now.

So I'm not throwing Carcillo under the bus for the current swoon. I just find it as ridiculous as you find my opinion that people are making such a big deal over a guy who, in the grand scheme of things, was essentially a sideshow.

I don't have any romantic notions about fighting hockey players. Maybe that makes me a p*ss-wad to the more "traditional" fans but let's be honest - I became a hockey fan after the lockout, so I appreciate the sport on a different level than the traditionalists. Not better or worse, just different.

I wouldn't be a good Flyers fan, that's for damn sure.
I mentioned fighting? Sounds like you got issues to reconcile with.
But yeah, you rail on him excessively for being uncontrollable, when hes CLEARLY controlled his temper as opposed to last year. His minor penalties are cut in half, and I haven't seen much in the way of tantrums. As for production, the whole team sucked it up this year. I stand by my opinion that this trade won't work out in our favor.

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Old
03-05-2009, 05:50 PM
  #64
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But yeah, you rail on him excessively for being uncontrollable, when hes CLEARLY controlled his temper as opposed to last year. His minor penalties are cut in half, and I haven't seen much in the way of tantrums.
Yeah, and look where he is on the stats sheet.

And I mentioned "fighting hockey players" because that's why Carcillo was a fan favorite - he fought people. Daniel "The Animal" I believe was the nickname people used.

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I will give you that. You have had an irrational dislike for him from the beginning.
Irrational to you, maybe. Your defense of him is equally irrational to me given that you seem rational about a lot of other stuff. Guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

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How you can say that and support Tyson Nash in the same thread is remarkable juxtaposition to the point of hilarity. Tyson Nash was a cheap shot, minor penalty machine with no offensive ability at all.
Because Tyson Nash knew what he was doing every minute he was out there. He was an agitator in the classic sense. He was the kind of guy to get penalties that took better players out of the game for two minutes. He had a strategic sense that Carcillo utterly lacks.

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03-05-2009, 06:07 PM
  #65
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Yeah, and look where he is on the stats sheet.
I could have sworn i mentioned something about that. As if upshall is a standout on the stat sheet himself. If all you see in carcillo is fighting, then fine. He's got upside that upshall doesn't.

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Originally Posted by zyllyx View Post
And I mentioned "fighting hockey players" because that's why Carcillo was a fan favorite - he fought people. Daniel "The Animal" I believe was the nickname people used.

Irrational to you, maybe. Your defense of him is equally irrational to me given that you seem rational about a lot of other stuff. Guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

Because Tyson Nash knew what he was doing every minute he was out there. He was an agitator in the classic sense. He was the kind of guy to get penalties that took better players out of the game for two minutes. He had a strategic sense that Carcillo utterly lacks.

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03-05-2009, 06:12 PM
  #66
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Rag on me all you want. In the end I win because Carcillo's in Philadelphia.

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03-05-2009, 06:14 PM
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Rag on me all you want. In the end I win because Carcillo's in Philadelphia.
And we all lose because we are coyote fans.

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03-05-2009, 06:29 PM
  #68
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And we all lose because we are coyote fans.
Still feel that way after Upshall's PP goal tonight?

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03-05-2009, 08:47 PM
  #69
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1 goal and 1st star of the game. Good start with his new team. He will be missed in Philly.

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03-05-2009, 10:00 PM
  #70
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I don't recall. I have a new trade proposal every other day. I do like Upshall, though, and have probably made a handful of proposals with him involved.
I dug this up from 7-10-2006:

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One guy I would really like for the Reinprecht/Doan line that wouldn't hurt our cap, at all, is Scottie Upshall. Nashville has plenty of top six forwards with Kariya, Arnott, Sullivan, Radulov, Hartnall, Legwand, Erat, and Walker. They also have a very good young defensive corps. However, their young defenseman, while immensely talented, are lacking in the physical department. With the obvious exception of Shea Weber the Preds are lacking any tough, punishing defenseman. Weber is also the only defensman with some size. So perhaps something could be worked out where Nashville would end up with Matt Spiller and a draft pick, and Phoenix would end up with Scottie Upshall...

Nagy-Comrie-Johnson/Roenick
Upshall/Sjostrom-Reinprecht-Doan
Sjostrom/Upshall-Scatchard-Roenick/Johnson
Gratton-Ricci-Laraque

...would make me a much, much happier camper.
This is a prime example of something that absolutely pissed off my wife. I can remember a trade proposal from like 3 years ago, but somehow manage to forget to take the trash out in the morning.


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Old
03-05-2009, 10:14 PM
  #71
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Originally Posted by Art.Vandelay View Post
I dug this up from 7-10-2006:



This is a prime example of something that absolutely pissed off my wife. I can remember a trade proposal from like 3 years ago, but somehow manage to forget to take the trash out in the morning.

You guys are so full of useless information.

On another note, The saddest part of your post is that our current team only has two players from three years ago on it....wow!

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Old
03-05-2009, 10:28 PM
  #72
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Originally Posted by sa cyred View Post
Hope Upshall does well for you guys... there's pretty much a Civil War going on in the Flyers board over the trade. Half of us really wanted to keep him. He's all heart and plays 24/7 never taking a shift off. He can get a team going. Goodluck!
Ditto. Scottie's probably not going to score you a ton of goals, but I think he will quickly become a fan favorite. I wish him nothing but the best and hope that one day he returns to the orange and black. Until then, I hope you guys love him as much as we do/did.


Last edited by flyersfan97: 03-06-2009 at 08:33 AM. Reason: typo
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Old
03-05-2009, 11:03 PM
  #73
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As a Flyers fan, you can not help but love upshall. I wish we still had him

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03-05-2009, 11:26 PM
  #74
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Originally Posted by zyllyx View Post
Because Tyson Nash knew what he was doing every minute he was out there. He was an agitator in the classic sense. He was the kind of guy to get penalties that took better players out of the game for two minutes. He had a strategic sense that Carcillo utterly lacks.
I loved Nash, but let's be honest here. I would take Carcillo over a 05-06 version Tyson Nash any day of the week. Nash was a horrible player when Carcillo has offensive upside and Tyson Nash was a terrible fighter when he dropped the mits.

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Old
03-06-2009, 02:10 AM
  #75
yakko
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Originally Posted by Art.Vandelay View Post
This is a prime example of something that absolutely pissed off my wife. I can remember a trade proposal from like 3 years ago, but somehow manage to forget to take the trash out in the morning.
For reference, rt dreamed up a few deals involving Prucha too.

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