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Old
03-05-2009, 01:26 PM
  #51
selltrade
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Go back to the threads in July and August and every Fletcher booster was saying these acquisitions would be flipped for the same picks or better. Made no sense then and obviously didn't happen..
as tml4life would say, can you predict whats going to happen in the future.. You obviously do your rants to try and get rises out of people, but if you can sit there and say everything Cliff did is bad you really don't know hockey.. Ive said they will recoup the pick for Mayers, didnt happen this year, probably will next year as his contract is expiring.. But if you want to go back to threads, look at Moore threads, Im sure nay sayers like yourself were criticizing him for resigning Moore. Looks good now... Again not everything he did turned to gold, but not everything he did turned into coal ...

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Old
03-05-2009, 01:33 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by selltrade View Post
as tml4life would say, can you predict whats going to happen in the future.. You obviously do your rants to try and get rises out of people, but if you can sit there and say everything Cliff did is bad you really don't know hockey.. Ive said they will recoup the pick for Mayers, didnt happen this year, probably will next year as his contract is expiring.. But if you want to go back to threads, look at Moore threads, Im sure nay sayers like yourself were criticizing him for resigning Moore. Looks good now... Again not everything he did turned to gold, but not everything he did turned into coal ...
Uh, nobody is saying everything Cliff Fletcher did was bad. I don't know how hard it is for you to understand that.

And yes, you can look at what's going on and make reasonable predictions about the future, like the fact that Mayers would suck this year and wouldn't recoup a pick, and probably won't next year either.

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Old
03-05-2009, 01:38 PM
  #53
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I just don't get it with some of you. Who is actually saying all of Fletcher's moves were bad?

If you look at things carefully, people who dislike Fletcher are saying his moves were inconsistent for a rebuild, gave away picks too easily and he managed his assets poorly overall and handled the 'Muskoka Five' poorly.
Did you not start this thread, sounds to me you think he did? You must be a Crown Attorney in real life as you fail to put down all the details only willing to see/hear what you want?

The Fletcher Burke Era

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Putting aside the issue of 'setting the table' and clearing out unwanted players and making moves to shake up a crap team for one second, has there ever been a franchise that has been this careless about its assets? Since last June, the Leafs have given up

McCabe
Wellwood
Raycroft
Tucker
Kronwall
Bell
Steen
Colaiacovo

for

Van Ryn
Stempniak

In a world where a 36 year old Dean McAmmond can be part of a hockey trade that brings back Comrie and Campoli, what the hell are the Leafs smoking? These guys don't have a lot of value, but a lot of it had to do with our own management trashing them. I've seen firesales before, but never one where the team moving bodies gets so little in return. As a **** team with mediocre prospects and a roster full of scrubs, this organization has no business putting any asset on waivers. Each move in itself doesn't add up to too much but when you can't even recover a 6th rounder, you're missing something.

The equation in Leaf Land seems to be subtraction subtraction subtraction, and I don't see it helping at all for improving this team in the future. Even though we got rid of veterans like Sundin and McCabe, this is still a team headed for 10th place.

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Old
03-05-2009, 01:41 PM
  #54
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Don't forget to add in the 4th round pick we traded along with McCabe for ol' Mush Head.

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Old
03-05-2009, 01:41 PM
  #55
Stephen
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Originally Posted by selltrade View Post
Did you not start this thread, sounds to me you think he did? You must be a Crown Attorney in real life as you fail to put down all the details only willing to see/hear what you want?

The Fletcher Burke Era

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Putting aside the issue of 'setting the table' and clearing out unwanted players and making moves to shake up a crap team for one second, has there ever been a franchise that has been this careless about its assets? Since last June, the Leafs have given up

McCabe
Wellwood
Raycroft
Tucker
Kronwall
Bell
Steen
Colaiacovo

for

Van Ryn
Stempniak

In a world where a 36 year old Dean McAmmond can be part of a hockey trade that brings back Comrie and Campoli, what the hell are the Leafs smoking? These guys don't have a lot of value, but a lot of it had to do with our own management trashing them. I've seen firesales before, but never one where the team moving bodies gets so little in return. As a **** team with mediocre prospects and a roster full of scrubs, this organization has no business putting any asset on waivers. Each move in itself doesn't add up to too much but when you can't even recover a 6th rounder, you're missing something.

The equation in Leaf Land seems to be subtraction subtraction subtraction, and I don't see it helping at all for improving this team in the future. Even though we got rid of veterans like Sundin and McCabe, this is still a team headed for 10th place.
Yeah and if you read that you'll notice I'm talking exclusively about his mismanagement of picks and assets as a critique of Fletcher's failures.

Did I mention the Grabovski trade? Or the Gill trade? Or the Kilger and Belak trades which I didn't hate? No I didn't.

Overall, I ****ing hate Cliff Fletcher, don't get me wrong.

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Old
03-05-2009, 02:00 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Stephen View Post
Yeah and if you read that you'll notice I'm talking exclusively about his mismanagement of picks and assets as a critique of Fletcher's failures.

Did I mention the Grabovski trade? Or the Gill trade? Or the Kilger and Belak trades which I didn't hate? No I didn't.

Overall, I ****ing hate Cliff Fletcher, don't get me wrong.
Exactly you didnt mention them, which is what I've been saying. Your not looking at the whole picture which is my point... So all in all your mad that he traded a 3rd for Mayers, gave up a 4th in the McCabe deal and a 5th for Hollweg...

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Old
03-05-2009, 07:15 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by selltrade View Post
Exactly you didnt mention them, which is what I've been saying. Your not looking at the whole picture which is my point... So all in all your mad that he traded a 3rd for Mayers, gave up a 4th in the McCabe deal and a 5th for Hollweg...
When I am criticizing specific points about a GM's performance, why do I need to bring up positives? Should I also remember to thank Fletcher for bringing in Mats Sundin in 1994?

Overall, the big picture is Fletcher did a bad job. You want to know what Fletcher moves I don't like? Here's a comprehensive list:

Getting rid of McCabe for no appreciable gain for the future or the present
The Sundin fiasco and the public nature he conducted things
Signing Jeff Finger and burying Kronwall in the minors
Not trading Pavel Kubina in the summer
Dumping Wellwood, Tucker and Raycroft who were still good enough to get jobs right away with NHL teams
Trading Steen and Colaiacovo for Stempniak
Not forcing Gilbert to play Pogge for the Marlie playoff drive
Wasting picks on acquiring garbage like Hollweg and Mayers

The picks he got for Belak, Gill, Kilger etc were good. The Schenn move was a lateral one, Grabovski was good, Hagman was okay.

All in all anything he did that was a positive is overshadowed by all these things.

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Old
03-05-2009, 10:01 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by selltrade View Post
Exactly you didnt mention them, which is what I've been saying. Your not looking at the whole picture which is my point... So all in all your mad that he traded a 3rd for Mayers, gave up a 4th in the McCabe deal and a 5th for Hollweg...
Just curious, do you recognize he made several mistakes?

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Old
03-06-2009, 10:29 AM
  #59
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Just curious, do you recognize he made several mistakes?
Im surprised Ulf, normally your better than this. Did you not read above where I said, some good, some unknown and some bad... Guess not

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