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Lundmark gets his chance

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Old
03-13-2004, 03:58 AM
  #1
KING
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Lundmark gets his chance

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/ho...p-150863c.html

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Old
03-13-2004, 06:13 AM
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in the hall
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Renney set the stage by deploying Lundmark on the power play last night and will give him chances the rest of the season to play with linemates such as Jaromir Jagr.
good to hear.. ill believe it when i see it

and for all the lundmark haters.. tell me again he doesnt have excuses?? even the staff, players and media agree hes been mishandled and hasnt had any real opportunities since being drafted

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03-13-2004, 06:42 AM
  #3
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Quite frankly I've never understood this great Lundmark debate. Personally I think he's a good player and might be a real good 2nd line center in the future. Is he the next Mario? Hardly, but some fans seem to think he should be. All the reports on Lundmark said basically the same thing, he was a smart, solid hockey player but would take time to develop. Considering the Rangers problems, I'm not too concerned with him.

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03-13-2004, 08:18 AM
  #4
Ed Giacomin
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Having Lundmark get to play with the 2 most recent waiver pick-ups (McCarthy and Josh Green) pretty much sums it up.

(Hlavac is starting to look like Bret Hull playing with Holik and Jagr.)

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03-13-2004, 09:56 AM
  #5
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I wouldn't call myself a "Lundmak Hater", but I admit I am less than thrilled with him. I see nothing in him that tells me he's willing to take his game to the next level. A good player can play himself out of a bad situation. I know the popular opinion is that he's being held back, or he's on a line, or receiving minutes that are inhibiting his progress. While I nod to all of those reasons, I don't entirely embrace them. Lundmark has to be held at least partly responsible for his treatment in the organization thus far. All I've seen out of him is speed. He hasn't, again, only my opinion, exhibited the level of offensive instincts that warranted picking him up 9th overall. I honestly thought we were drafting a solid second line player that may not light the league up, but could produce Mike York type numbers, maybe a shade more, and be a nice weapon for us for years. But, while his linemates don't help, neither they nor the coaching staff should be blamed for him being unable to put the puck into the net. I can't say McCarthy is the reason why Jamie is easily taken off the puck by the opponent night in and night out. I'm willing to go half way with the whole debate. I agree the environment isn't the best situation for him to be in, but I also agree that he hasn't given enough for it be otherwise.

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03-13-2004, 11:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Ed Giacomin
(Hlavac is starting to look like Bret Hull playing with Holik and Jagr.)
That will be the excuse when he is resigned in the off-season. You know, for the "need" to have some experience on the top line and how "good" he looked w/ Holik & Jagr and the obvious chemistry that the trio displayed.

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Old
03-13-2004, 11:33 AM
  #7
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Originally Posted by Shadowtron
but could produce Mike York type numbers,
Kind of hard to produce Mike York type numbers when you do not have a Theo Fleury to play with. Let's recall that Fleury producing (as far as points are concerned) MUCH more than Lac, Ortmeyer, Green put together. And then, let's not forget how much time Yorkie spent w/ Fleury and Lindros. Again a far cry from Lac, Ortmeyer, & Green.
And let's recall that Yorkie was not yo-yoed from RW to LW to C. Nor did he have to struggle to find consistent ice time. All of these things add up.
Haven't you wondered as to WHY the Rangers have such a hard time developing prospects? There are lots of reasons. Not all of them are busts. Looks like Manny is beginning to hit his stride in Columbus. Again, you CANNOT place a potential top 2 line player w/ 4th line wastes and expect him to produce instant offense. NO team in the league does that w/ their prospects. Add in the fact that he had a knee injury and has missed 2 months of the season.
All of these factors add up.


Last edited by True Blue: 03-13-2004 at 11:49 AM.
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Old
03-13-2004, 11:36 AM
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"in the hall", could you send me that pic in your avatar please, I'd like to put it on my desktop, I'd very much appreciate it.

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Old
03-13-2004, 11:42 AM
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ahh well i did not create it so i can not send you the large version of it but if you want it as your avatar i replied to your private message explaining how to do it... i think the forum member "kodiak" created it so you might be better served asking him...

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Old
03-13-2004, 11:43 AM
  #10
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Originally Posted by True Blue
Kind of hard to produce Mike York type numbers when you do not have a Theo Fleury to play with. Let's recall that Fleury producing (as far as points are concerned) MUCH more than Lac, Ortmeyer, Green put together. And then, let's not forget how much time Yorkie spent w/ Fleury and Lindros. Again a far cry from Lac, Ortmeyer, & Green.
wasnt fleury leading the league in goals and scoring at the time?

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03-13-2004, 01:22 PM
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I think he began with Graves...

and Fleury too. But let's get some facts straight... York began his NHL career a year or two older than Lundmark after having put up some very good numbers in college. Lundmark never did put up very good numbers in Hartford, but he did put up decent numbers for a 20 year old. Then, he did get jerked around a bit as the organization didn't want to be patient. York, however, is stronger than Jamie. He's a bit more effective as a result, I believe. The skills are nearly the same.

Whether Jamie has it or not I cannot say. I can say that he skates extremely well. He shoots extremely well. He's not stupid out there. He tries very hard every shift. Can a kid with those tools be taught some finer points of the game? Can a coach see his strengths and play to them (can he not shoot the puck playing the off-wing with laser-like precision? - Would Jagr feeding him and Holik creating space benfit him and give him the confidence he needs - and us and the coaching staff to see if he's got it?).

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03-13-2004, 01:28 PM
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by True Blue
Kind of hard to produce Mike York type numbers when you do not have a Theo Fleury to play with. Let's recall that Fleury producing (as far as points are concerned) MUCH more than Lac, Ortmeyer, Green put together. And then, let's not forget how much time Yorkie spent w/ Fleury and Lindros. Again a far cry from Lac, Ortmeyer, & Green.
And let's recall that Yorkie was not yo-yoed from RW to LW to C. Nor did he have to struggle to find consistent ice time. All of these things add up.
Haven't you wondered as to WHY the Rangers have such a hard time developing prospects? There are lots of reasons. Not all of them are busts. Looks like Manny is beginning to hit his stride in Columbus. Again, you CANNOT place a potential top 2 line player w/ 4th line wastes and expect him to produce instant offense. NO team in the league does that w/ their prospects. Add in the fact that he had a knee injury and has missed 2 months of the season.
All of these factors add up.

excuse after excuse after excuse. truebrooks you are the best. lundmark has two goals he gets chances its not like he doesn't. the fact is he can't score at the nhl level. its sad and pathetic.

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03-13-2004, 02:00 PM
  #13
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Originally Posted by Son of Steinbrenner
truebrooks you are the best.
Again, your originality level truly astounds me. Taking my "Glenjar" and converting it into your own version must have many a sleepless night.
Are Kobasew's 6 goals in 58 games really that much more impressive than Lundmark's 2 in 48? How about Morrison's 6 goals in 57 games in his first season in Vancouver? Didn't Graves score something like 2 in his first year in Detroit? Joe Thorton's 3 goals really must have had Boston writing him off as a bust.
I know that this is technically Jaime's 2nd year. But let's recall that he got bounced around in his first year and missed 2 months of this season.

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Old
03-13-2004, 02:01 PM
  #14
in the hall
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Originally Posted by Son of Steinbrenner

excuse after excuse after excuse. truebrooks you are the best. lundmark has two goals he gets chances its not like he doesn't. the fact is he can't score at the nhl level. its sad and pathetic.
whoa bro i think you should read the article in this thread.. it pretty much depicts how little chances this guy gets.. granted yes he only has two goals but this kid never gets ice time or the right line mates...

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03-13-2004, 02:05 PM
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Why is everyone so down on Lundmark? Yes, he hasn't developed hquickly as fans may wanted him to, but from the very beginning the coaching staff as tried to make him a more disciplined defensive forward. I think I remember a quote from Maloney a year or two ago saying that his goals will come naturally, as he has a knack for the net, but they were going to force him to be more defensive in the beginning. I think once he finds his balance (between off/def) he will be a solid 2nd line winger (I agree with whomever said he's probably spoiled at center, now), and start putting that biscuit in the basket, where it belongs. JMHO.


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03-13-2004, 02:10 PM
  #16
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Originally Posted by Forechecker
Why is everyone so down on Lundmark? Yes, he hasn't developed hquickly as fans may wanted him to, but from the very beginning the coaching staff as tried to make him a more disciplined defensive forward. I think I remember a quote from Maloney a year or two ago saying that his goals will come naturally, as he has a knack for the net, but they were going to force him to be more defensive in the beginning. I think once he finds his balance (between off/def) he will be a solid 2nd line winger (I agree with whomever said he's probably spoiled at center, now), and start putting that biscuit in the basket, where it belongs. JMHO.

i dont think its so much everyone is down on lundy only the loudest voices are heard.....

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03-13-2004, 02:55 PM
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Jamie has had a tough year, no doubt but from the effort he's showed the last few games I think he's got a good future. Sooner or later the pucks are going to go in for him; as long as he keeps moving his feet and driving to the net he'll be fine.

As far as him being Mario...I really don't ever recall anyone, in the organization or media, calling this guy the next one. To have had your sights set on that type of reputation for this kid is probably unwise.

He's a solid two-way forward that can get it done at both ends. Just because he hasn't put up offensive numbers doesn't mean he hasn't improved over the past few years. He's gone from no PP or PK time to the first PK unit (even when we had all the stacked lineup) and a little PP time. He's made drastic improvements in his own zone and I think he's just starting to get his nose for the net back. All you have to do is watch his play in the last few games.

As Ranger fans I think at times you (we ) tend to get over excited and our expectations are set too high. Have some patients with these young guys and let them develop.

What really pisses me off is how we call up Josef Balej (so damn good with the puck) and we only give him 4 minutes of ice. He had 4 shifts last night and on his fourth he had two scoring chances.

Jan Hlavac is a UFA at this years end and WON'T be back next year. What the hell is he doing on the first line when you can give that valuable experience to a kid like Balej. That is what really irks me. :mad:

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03-13-2004, 03:17 PM
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by True Blue
Kind of hard to produce Mike York type numbers when you do not have a Theo Fleury to play with. Let's recall that Fleury producing (as far as points are concerned) MUCH more than Lac, Ortmeyer, Green put together. And then, let's not forget how much time Yorkie spent w/ Fleury and Lindros. Again a far cry from Lac, Ortmeyer, & Green.
And let's recall that Yorkie was not yo-yoed from RW to LW to C. Nor did he have to struggle to find consistent ice time. All of these things add up.
Haven't you wondered as to WHY the Rangers have such a hard time developing prospects? There are lots of reasons. Not all of them are busts. Looks like Manny is beginning to hit his stride in Columbus. Again, you CANNOT place a potential top 2 line player w/ 4th line wastes and expect him to produce instant offense. NO team in the league does that w/ their prospects. Add in the fact that he had a knee injury and has missed 2 months of the season.
All of these factors add up.

As I said, I agree with both sides of the coin. I'm not saying you, or those that share your opinion, are wrong at all. I'm just not as willing to absolve him of any wrongdoing. To me he just seems to offensively inept most nights. Listen, the entire team sucked this year, and it's infectious. He's only 23 so I'm not saying let's ride him out of town for not being the next Gretzky. I thought he'd be further along by now. I'm not a player scout, so who knows who's right. Again, I don't disagree with you TB, but I'm only going to use about 50% of your argument. And on this board that's a very generous percentage

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03-13-2004, 03:23 PM
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I liked what I saw from JL last night

He showed responsibility defensively and geherated a few chances offensively. He also falt out beat Boyle to the outside using his speed, only to stopped on an incredible play by Kubina. I would still like to see him get time with a player who might have some offensive talent.

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Old
03-13-2004, 03:38 PM
  #20
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I think what I find the funniest in the 'Lundmark' debate is that everyone seems to want results now. Yet for the last 7 years the same people have been screaming to let the kids develop and give them a chance. Yet, when the Rangers finally do, albeit badly, give a 'kid' a chance the fans want instant results. He's 23, give him time.

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03-13-2004, 04:05 PM
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fletch
and Fleury too. But let's get some facts straight... York began his NHL career a year or two older than Lundmark after having put up some very good numbers in college. Lundmark never did put up very good numbers in Hartford, but he did put up decent numbers for a 20 year old. Then, he did get jerked around a bit as the organization didn't want to be patient. York, however, is stronger than Jamie. He's a bit more effective as a result, I believe. The skills are nearly the same.

Whether Jamie has it or not I cannot say. I can say that he skates extremely well. He shoots extremely well. He's not stupid out there. He tries very hard every shift. Can a kid with those tools be taught some finer points of the game? Can a coach see his strengths and play to them (can he not shoot the puck playing the off-wing with laser-like precision? - Would Jagr feeding him and Holik creating space benfit him and give him the confidence he needs - and us and the coaching staff to see if he's got it?).
Agree 100 percent.

Put him in the best situation to produce and see if he can. No guarantee that he will, but what do we have to lose?

Man, now is the perfect tome to find out something about a lot of young players.

Obviously, some of us already know that Lundmark doesn't have it. I ain't no expert so I don't know.

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03-13-2004, 04:13 PM
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Originally Posted by klingsor
Obviously, some of us already know that Lundmark doesn't have it. I ain't no expert so I don't know.
Know or think? There's a difference.

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03-13-2004, 05:17 PM
  #23
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The damn kind is trying so hard. You could just see the frustration on his face when he was on that partial break and Boyle dove and deflected his shot into the stands.

Hey Renny, put him on with Holik and Jagr for jsut one game...just one game! I know we will miss the acrobatics of Hlavac for one night but the season is already over anyway!!

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03-13-2004, 06:53 PM
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Originally Posted by BigE
Know or think? There's a difference.
My use of the word "know" was sarcastic.

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03-13-2004, 07:05 PM
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I was too busy being a wiseass to notice, my bad.

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