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I Consider us Winners at the Deadline

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Old
03-05-2009, 10:28 AM
  #51
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Originally Posted by Fish on The Sand View Post
when Tanguay got hurt he was our best winger, and when Lats got hurt he was our 2nd best winger. Given the way AKost is playing lately, they would instantly become our top 2 wingers upon their return.
When Lats got hurt he had that great chemistry going with Lapierre but was hardly considered as untouchable and so important to the team considered the comments in here. As far as Tanguay is concerned, while I agree that he wasn't half bad as people said he was (though not my favorite player), there were a lot of criticsms about his overall play even though he was 1PPG in his last 10 games.

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03-05-2009, 10:29 AM
  #52
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Originally Posted by le_sean View Post
There was no point in overpaying for a player that would not help the Habs anyways. Gainey probably realizes that the Habs will get beat by Boston, New Jersey, Philadelphia and probably Washington if they meet in the playoffs. They are just better teams.

Even if somehow all the pieces fell like in 1993, there is no way the Habs could compete with the Wings, Sharks or Flames.

It just isn't the 100th year destiny we all wished it would be. One player would not have propelled the team.
If he realizes that and does nothing, then he should get fired. When you're a boss, you need to take action. Staying put and waiting for god knows what makes you a bad boss. That's simple management.

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03-05-2009, 10:37 AM
  #53
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Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
The great hockey they gave us last night showed they are more than one or two players away from being a VERY good team...

The players, by oŕplaying the way they did, told Gainey "you're right not to add anything, we arent that good anyway"...
If that is the type of attitude the players have then they can GTFO, that is certainly not being professional, most of us were hoping for a win. The level of effort after the first period was not good. Koivu aside, no one played well.

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03-05-2009, 10:45 AM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Sir Jacques Demers View Post
What did you expect? tanguay to retire? Let's all applaud gainey for not murdering Tanguay in the night.

We're improved, but we're still far from good enough. And we could have done much better.



Yes I would. We needed a big centre, and a physical defensement with an aptitude for the powerplay. We've acquired a 39-year old Defenceman who by fluke is fitting most of that need and our replacement for Robert Lang is Metropolit.

Had we gotten Guerin or Antropov, you would not have heard a peep from me. C'mon. 2nd round pick to fill a huge void, at least partially?

Dandenault should have been waived at the start of the season. As it stands now he'll make 1.7 million "pour manger des hot dogs"
Antropov was not coming here. Brian Burke wasn't trading him to a divisional team first off.
Second, we all know how Burke publicly said he was very disappointed with Gainey in regards to the Rivet deal. So, anybody with common sense a little knowledge knew there was no way Antropov was coming here.

Bill Guerin is a winger and we have enough old veterans.

That leaves Jokinen. The flames gave Lombardi, Prust(who's a top prospect according to TSN) and a 1st.
Would you have given one of Higgins/MaxPac, one of Kristo/McDonagh/Subban, and a 1st for Jokinen?...Maybe you would, but not me.
Gainey said he called for Jokinen but quickly realized he wasn't going to happen.
This year is especially not the year to be giving out some prospects seeing as we have a bunch of upcoming UFAs.

Now, other than these 2 centers. There was Tkachuk possibly, but he didn't move, so..

Instead of just whining like a kid, try to understand. There was very little moves that were significant yesterday. The only ''impactful'' player that got traded was Jokinen and he's still not considered that impactful.
I was expecting 1-2 minor moves from Gainey, like Dandy that could have led to another one, but no one was interested. So I'm certainly not going to ask him to trade our prospect away for other upcoming UFAs and see our future disappear. Be forced to start from scratch again next year. No thx.

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03-05-2009, 10:47 AM
  #55
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Originally Posted by habfan1968 View Post
If that is the type of attitude the players have then they can GTFO, that is certainly not being professional, most of us were hoping for a win. The level of effort after the first period was not good. Koivu aside, no one played well.
Well, Dandy aside, all the other players should have felt some kind of relief, Higgins, Komi, Gorges, Plekanec, Kovalev, etc

IMO, the first thing that should have crossed their mind is something like "Thanks Bob for not trading me to Colombus or Phoenix"

and looking at their performances, they sure forgot to thank Bob...

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03-05-2009, 11:15 AM
  #56
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Originally Posted by deandebean View Post
If he realizes that and does nothing, then he should get fired. When you're a boss, you need to take action. Staying put and waiting for god knows what makes you a bad boss. That's simple management.
Depends if you're concerned with short term gains vs the long term.

You COULD take a big risk and try and make a push for the short term, but if that fails (more than likely, NO MATTER WHAT moves are made) then you're totally boned in the long term.

Reactionary management is bad.

Lets say I'm running a small company and I'm short on funds due to the financial crisis and business not performing as expected. I do, however, have a good amount of retained earnings and funds available for future expansion. See, I invested a lot of money in GICs and other long-term, safer investments.

Now, I could try investing the money aggressively to make a short term gain so I can reach my year end objectives, but the market is tough and unpredictable right now. In all likelyhood, any short term investment strategy to make a huge gain will result in a loss, unless everything falls into place and I'm lucky.

So hey, at least I tried...Except now my retained earnings are depleted. I have a lot less money saved up for the future...And a bunch of new opportunities are presenting themselves.

THAT is bad managment. I should have just tried to limit my losses for the year and hope that business picks up to where it is supposed to be. At least this way, I'm still in a good position for next year and the future.

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Old
03-05-2009, 11:20 AM
  #57
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Originally Posted by le_sean View Post
There was no point in overpaying for a player that would not help the Habs anyways. Gainey probably realizes that the Habs will get beat by Boston, New Jersey, Philadelphia and probably Washington if they meet in the playoffs. They are just better teams.

Even if somehow all the pieces fell like in 1993, there is no way the Habs could compete with the Wings, Sharks or Flames.

It just isn't the 100th year destiny we all wished it would be. One player would not have propelled the team.
We can beat Washington if we get good goaltending, they have Theodore who is shaky. Phillie has problems in goal and on defense.

Apart from New Jersey and Boston we are as good as anybody, we just need to get healthy and get a few guys plying like they can(Price Gorges Komisarek Higgins).

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03-05-2009, 11:23 AM
  #58
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Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
Well, Dandy aside, all the other players should have felt some kind of relief, Higgins, Komi, Gorges, Plekanec, Kovalev, etc

IMO, the first thing that should have crossed their mind is something like "Thanks Bob for not trading me to Colombus or Phoenix"

and looking at their performances, they sure forgot to thank Bob...
Our performance last night was better than a lot of games we won...some people are too infuenced by the media and the scoreboard.

Territorially we had the upper hand but Buffalo was more opportunistic...sort of what we did to teams the last 4 games.

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03-05-2009, 11:31 AM
  #59
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
We can beat Washington if we get good goaltending, they have Theodore who is shaky. Phillie has problems in goal and on defense.

Apart from New Jersey and Boston we are as good as anybody, we just need to get healthy and get a few guys plying like they can(Price Gorges Komisarek Higgins).
Agreed...the trade deadline is like the July 1st UFA signing period where all the major action happens in the first few days

Hockey analyst always think that the most active team, is the most sucessful one...well, history actually proves it's the opposite.

Whatever, Gainey made his moves...out of all the players that were moved at the deadline yesterday, I don't think any of them makes the Habs that much more a contender than they already are today.

Right now, aside from Lapierre, Kostopoulos, Markov and Halak, everyone on this team (minus rookies MaxP + D'Ago) is underachieving big time. Will this continue throughout the rest of the year and potentially during the playoffs? I can't see that happening, but then again, i'm a fan of this team and believe in them no matter what???

Man...the 100th year anniversary is worst thing that's happened to this team this year.

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Old
03-05-2009, 11:36 AM
  #60
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Originally Posted by habfan1968 View Post
I do not view the signing of Olli that great and whether or not Calgary is an instant contender is yet to be seen. Leopold was a better signing
Sorry pal, but neither of the guys were "signed" to anything. They were T-R-A-D-E-D.

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03-05-2009, 11:49 AM
  #61
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
Our performance last night was better than a lot of games we won...some people are too infuenced by the media and the scoreboard.

Territorially we had the upper hand but Buffalo was more opportunistic...sort of what we did to teams the last 4 games.
In the first yeah...

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03-05-2009, 12:05 PM
  #62
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I think most people are disappointed, because we didn't fill all the holes we had. We did have quite a few though and we filled a couple by aquiring Schneider and Metropolit.

But this team still has major holes and we won't contend as is. Heck, how long has it been since we just competed for 60 minutes. Tanguay will help the offense and I don't know what Lats will help with, it depends on how quickly he can get back to game shape. But I still don't see us getting far.

First we have to make the playoffs and that's not a given. Buffalo and Carolina are only 4 points behind us with 18 games to go and even though we won 4 in a row before last night, we didn't look good in any of those wins.

If we do make the playoffs, the first round will be against Boston, New Jersey, Washington, or Philadelphia. All teams that will grind us down to nothing. We've all seen how we respond to teams that hit us. Not good. I predict a short series unless our opponent is overconfident and has a sense of accomplishment already.

What should we have done. Well it depends on what your goals are. If your goal is just to make the playoffs and see what happens, well then we did the right thing. If the goal is to contend, then there were 3 solutions.
- status quo and let the kids develop and aquire experience (option chosen by Gainey)
- be a buyer and aquire the pieces that fill the holes you have identified (option most seem to have wanted but with so many important holes, how realistic is this)
- be a seller and do a quick and simple summer retool (option taken by the Flyers 2 seasons ago)

The 3rd option is the one I wanted. We are going nowhere with this team right now, we should have sold off any pieces that we didn't think would fit into our plan for next year. Give Kovalev to the highest bidder. Jokinen got a 1st, we could have gotten a 1st. Find out the intentions of Komisarek, Koivu, Tanguay, and the rest of the UFA and anyone not looking to resign is traded away for picks and prospects. We could have gotten quite a few draft picks and come summer time, we sign the best available UFA to a huge contract, or make another pitch for Vinny or a pitch for Tavares with all draft picks acquired and go from there.

Just my opinion, anyways but I don't think Gainey took the right option. I've been waiting long enough for a contender, I could of waited another year. (It's a year we aren't contending anyways.)
I suggested your 3rd option over a month ago in a thread here and, well, lets just say that the resident experts here did not appreciate my suggestion, going as far as even closing the thread quickly.

http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=602684

With so few sellers and so many buyers at the deadline this year and with a team with many overwhelming difficulties, why not roll the dice and trade away most UFAs for young talent and picks and make sure that the young players we get are in the MaxPac mold - fast, strong and bigger than what we have now. Then use the significant available Cap space to offer big bucks to a player like Bouwmeester and even have more assets available to trade for Lecavalier.

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03-05-2009, 12:08 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by gillyguzzler View Post
I suggested your 3rd option over a month ago in a thread here and, well, lets just say that the resident experts here did not appreciate my suggestion, going as far as even closing the thread quickly.

http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=602684

With so few sellers and so many buyers at the deadline this year and with a team with many overwhelming difficulties, why not roll the dice and trade away most UFAs for young talent and picks and make sure that the young players we get are in the MaxPac mold - fast, strong and bigger than what we have now. Then use the significant available Cap space to offer big bucks to a player like Bouwmeester and even have more assets available to trade for Lecavalier.
That is exactly what i wanted... or at least trade the UFAs you sure won't sign in the summer. Forget the Cup this season, the team is too shaky. Now look at all the UFAs leaving the Habs for nothing.

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03-05-2009, 12:09 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by gillyguzzler View Post
I suggested your 3rd option over a month ago in a thread here and, well, lets just say that the resident experts here did not appreciate my suggestion, going as far as even closing the thread quickly.

http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=602684

With so few sellers and so many buyers at the deadline this year and with a team with many overwhelming difficulties, why not roll the dice and trade away most UFAs for young talent and picks and make sure that the young players we get are in the MaxPac mold - fast, strong and bigger than what we have now. Then use the significant available Cap space to offer big bucks to a player like Bouwmeester and even have more assets available to trade for Lecavalier.
Because the word "shrewd" is nowhere to be found in Gainey's vocabulary. Naive and conservative, on the other hand.....

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03-05-2009, 12:28 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
Antropov was not coming here. Brian Burke wasn't trading him to a divisional team first off.
Second, we all know how Burke publicly said he was very disappointed with Gainey in regards to the Rivet deal. So, anybody with common sense a little knowledge knew there was no way Antropov was coming here.
Sort of off topic, but I had to address this part, because I've seen this said a lot lately. Gainey and Burke actually have great respect for each other. I remember Burke standing up for Gainey in an interview after people were all over Bob for proposing his shot-blocking idea.

I think this rift over the Rivet trade is something that has been skewed over time. Burke was angry at first, and then he called Gainey and found out that the Rivet trade was almost a month in the making. He accepted that.

Quote:
Craig Rivet is traded to San Jose by Montreal, and I call and whine to Gainey about not calling me back and telling me he was available. He tells me that I was late to that party, and he had been talking to Doug Wilson for three weeks. Fair enough.
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/hocke...ke-diary_x.htm

Burke doesn't mince his words. If he though what Gainey did was bushleague, he would have said a bit more than "fair enough".

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03-05-2009, 12:30 PM
  #66
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Because the word "shrewd" is nowhere to be found in Gainey's vocabulary. Naive and conservative, on the other hand.....
Either Gainey should have gone for it (Jokinen, Bouwmeester, someone!) or have the balls to trade some UFAs and stock up for next year because the present team, with Carbo at the helm, might not even make the playoffs.

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03-05-2009, 12:31 PM
  #67
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Either Gainey should have gone for it (Jokinen, Bouwmeester, someone!) or have the balls to trade some UFAs and stock up for next year because the present team, with Carbo at the helm, might not even make the playoffs.
Exactly, I agree 100%.

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03-05-2009, 12:33 PM
  #68
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Because the word "shrewd" is nowhere to be found in Gainey's vocabulary. Naive and conservative, on the other hand.....
There is no GM, coach, player or journalist that I've seen even imply that Gainey is naive when it comes to performing his job. In fact, the opinion is universal that his moves and plans are well thought-out and have many outs. This is one of the most ridiculously unfounded criticisms I've ever seen on this forum.

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03-05-2009, 12:50 PM
  #69
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Originally Posted by waffledave View Post
Depends if you're concerned with short term gains vs the long term.

You COULD take a big risk and try and make a push for the short term, but if that fails (more than likely, NO MATTER WHAT moves are made) then you're totally boned in the long term.

Reactionary management is bad.

Lets say I'm running a small company and I'm short on funds due to the financial crisis and business not performing as expected. I do, however, have a good amount of retained earnings and funds available for future expansion. See, I invested a lot of money in GICs and other long-term, safer investments.

Now, I could try investing the money aggressively to make a short term gain so I can reach my year end objectives, but the market is tough and unpredictable right now. In all likelyhood, any short term investment strategy to make a huge gain will result in a loss, unless everything falls into place and I'm lucky.

So hey, at least I tried...Except now my retained earnings are depleted. I have a lot less money saved up for the future...And a bunch of new opportunities are presenting themselves.

THAT is bad managment. I should have just tried to limit my losses for the year and hope that business picks up to where it is supposed to be. At least this way, I'm still in a good position for next year and the future.
Right now, the Habs aren't in a crisis. They are just coasting as an organisation. Which is bad.

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03-05-2009, 01:00 PM
  #70
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Originally Posted by deandebean View Post
Right now, the Habs aren't in a crisis. They are just coasting as an organisation. Which is bad.
I disagree. There was a big drop off from last year. That's crisis to me. The team is good enough to win, but the players aren't performing as expected.

If they were playing up to their potential, we'd have the same results from last year, if not better.

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03-05-2009, 01:09 PM
  #71
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Originally Posted by Gorges of the Jungle View Post
There is no GM, coach, player or journalist that I've seen even imply that Gainey is naive when it comes to performing his job. In fact, the opinion is universal that his moves and plans are well thought-out and have many outs. This is one of the most ridiculously unfounded criticisms I've ever seen on this forum.
He's naive in relying on UFA's when we all know not to get our hopes with that. How many players did he offer a massive contract to two seasons ago? 6 I believe... and the one guy that signed was Hamrlik. Last offseason was no different, and nor will this offseason.

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03-05-2009, 01:51 PM
  #72
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Originally Posted by gillyguzzler View Post
Either Gainey should have gone for it (Jokinen, Bouwmeester, someone!) or have the balls to trade some UFAs and stock up for next year because the present team, with Carbo at the helm, might not even make the playoffs.
That's been the problem with Gainey since day one. He fails to go all the way in anything he does. Holmgrem retooled his team completly in one summer. Charelli got Chara and Savard signed as UFAs. Other examples are legion of other GMs doing things.

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03-05-2009, 02:05 PM
  #73
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That's been the problem with Gainey since day one. He fails to go all the way in anything he does. Holmgrem retooled his team completly in one summer. Charelli got Chara and Savard signed as UFAs. Other examples are legion of other GMs doing things.
Holmgren is also in cap hell with the Briere contract and Philly is constantly struggling with cap space. It's only a matter of time before they lose someone due to cap space...They already had to lose Upshall.

Burke is a proactive GM too...The Ducks STINK now, and they lost Andy Mcdonald for nothing.

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03-05-2009, 02:08 PM
  #74
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I just wish we'd grabbed Roberts.

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03-05-2009, 02:12 PM
  #75
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Burke is a proactive GM too...The Ducks STINK now, and they lost Andy Mcdonald for nothing.
They stink now... AFTER WINNING A CUP.

If we won the cup, I really wouldn't care too much about missing the playoffs two seasons later. Something which isn't set in stone either.

Excuses excuses.

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