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Deadline Deal that Didn't Happen

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Old
03-05-2009, 08:42 AM
  #1
Quaz
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Deadline Deal that Didn't Happen

I heard on 1380 AM this morning that the deal for Tkachuk was Tkachuk and Perron for Kessel. Someone backed out on the deal at the last minute. I'm glad they didn't make this deal. I think Perron will cost less over the next couple years than Kessel, and could possibly break out in the next year two just like Kessel has this year.

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03-05-2009, 08:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Quas View Post
I heard on 1380 AM this morning that the deal for Tkachuk was Tkachuk and Perron for Kessel. Someone backed out on the deal at the last minute. I'm glad they didn't make this deal. I think Perron will cost less over the next couple years than Kessel, and could possibly break out in the next year two just like Kessel has this year.
Wow, if that was the deal, it's gonna take me awhile to figure out if I would have liked that or not.

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03-05-2009, 08:57 AM
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Wow, if that was the deal, it's gonna take me awhile to figure out if I would have liked that or not.
It took me all of about two seconds to decide that I would have have hated that deal.

Perron is worth Kessel all by himself, IMO; adding Tkachuk to the deal, and getting nothing additional back from Boston, would equal the Blues getting hosed.

Tkachuk and Perron for Kessel and a second-round pick would have been more equitable.

P_B

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03-05-2009, 09:20 AM
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It took me all of about two seconds to decide that I would have have hated that deal.

Perron is worth Kessel all by himself, IMO; adding Tkachuk to the deal, and getting nothing additional back from Boston, would equal the Blues getting hosed.

Tkachuk and Perron for Kessel and a second-round pick would have been more equitable.

P_B
I agree with you on this. The majority of the people over at STLToday.com would have made this trade in a second. While Kessel has done very well this year, he will have to do it agian next year to prove he has arrived. I think Perron will improve a lot next season, and will put up similar numbers as Kessel. Also he will cost less short term and the Blues don't have another top 6 forward to call up to replace Tkachuk if you have Kessel replace Perron in the line-up.

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03-05-2009, 09:41 AM
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Cross-posting what I said somewhere else...

Perron's first season - 13 G, 14 A, 62 GP
Perron's second season - 9 G, 29 A, 62 GP (so far)

Kessel's first season - 11 G, 18 A, 70 GP
Kessel's second season - 19 G, 18 A, 82 GP

Kessel broke out only this year, and he broke out playing with some damn good forwards - Marc Savard and Wheeler, I think. He's also been absolutely horrible since he came back from mono. Put him with Oshie and Berglund or even McDonald and Boyes and I don't think he's nearly as productive, especially since we don't have Chara or Wideman or Ference on our back end breaking guys out of the zone. In the meantime, we give up the extra asset and we wreck chemistry on at least half our lines and in the locker room. Our powerplay is suddenly short a player and we go from having 8 scoring forwards (arguably) to having 7. And our reward is a $4M+ deal for Kessel in the summer, assuming we don't lose him to an offer sheet.

I'm awfully glad the B's pulled the plug.

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03-05-2009, 10:05 AM
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WalterSobchak
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concur this deal would have been a mistake.

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03-05-2009, 01:04 PM
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I almost shuddered hideously when I read this proposed trade from Boston. LP and JD probably answered that GM in about a half second.

But obviously Perron is not untouchable or else another GM would not have asked. If Perron was untouchable, then JD would have signaled to the league's that he is off-limits and nobody would have bothered. (Unless they are really naive and ignorant GMs.)

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03-05-2009, 01:14 PM
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Originally Posted by ChicagoBlues View Post
I almost shuddered hideously when I read this proposed trade from Boston. LP and JD probably answered that GM in about a half second.

But obviously Perron is not untouchable or else another GM would not have asked. If Perron was untouchable, then JD would have signaled to the league's that he is off-limits and nobody would have bothered. (Unless they are really naive and ignorant GMs.)
Don't assume so fast, grasshopper. These are Stricklands words so you gotta take it with a grain of salt unless Walt confirms he signed the paperwork to waive his NMC (I think it was just a NTC?).

http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog/Andy-...te8230/5/19907

Quote:
In the end the Blues didn’t deem Boston's offer acceptable and therefore never pulled the trigger.

I’m also told the talks were very serious and the two sides weren’t that far from executing a trade. We will never know if a deal could have eventually been worked out if both teams weren’t working against the 2:00 deadline.

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03-05-2009, 01:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Jeffro View Post
Cross-posting what I said somewhere else...

Perron's first season - 13 G, 14 A, 62 GP
Perron's second season - 9 G, 29 A, 62 GP (so far)

Kessel's first season - 11 G, 18 A, 70 GP
Kessel's second season - 19 G, 18 A, 82 GP

Kessel broke out only this year, and he broke out playing with some damn good forwards - Marc Savard and Wheeler, I think. He's also been absolutely horrible since he came back from mono. Put him with Oshie and Berglund or even McDonald and Boyes and I don't think he's nearly as productive, especially since we don't have Chara or Wideman or Ference on our back end breaking guys out of the zone. In the meantime, we give up the extra asset and we wreck chemistry on at least half our lines and in the locker room. Our powerplay is suddenly short a player and we go from having 8 scoring forwards (arguably) to having 7. And our reward is a $4M+ deal for Kessel in the summer, assuming we don't lose him to an offer sheet.

I'm awfully glad the B's pulled the plug.
i have to wonder about this one......, and of note, i come in peace......

first off, he has not been horrible or bad at all since coming back from mono. He's played great, he just wasnt finding the back of the net, every 'goal' scorer slumps at somepoint.

he's played mainly with Savard and Lucic, and yes, Savard is a great play maker, but if you watch Kessel, he makes alot of his own chances and plays.

and lets face it, Lucic is no Savard, or Wheeler for that matter, he's great at making space and has some hands of his own, but setting people up is not his game at all.

I really disagree with the assesment's that Kessel and Perron are of equal value trade wise (and no, not going from draft postion) and i am sure you guys (obviously!) disagree with me disagreeeing with you

Also factor in Kessle's nutty cancer and the mono that he's dealt with, and the fact that his two way game has been drasticly improved under Julien and the B's coaching staff, and i think he gets a little underrated here.

dont get me wrong, i'd love to have Perron, he should have an outstanding carrer ahead of him, but there is just no way i'd take him for Kessel one on one value wise, and going ahead (witch after Tkachuk leaves, is what boston is left with)

how reliable a source was this anyway? becuase i have a hard time thinking that Chia actually offered that himself?

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03-05-2009, 01:55 PM
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Originally Posted by WalterSobchak View Post
Don't assume so fast, grasshopper. These are Stricklands words so you gotta take it with a grain of salt unless Walt confirms he signed the paperwork to waive his NMC (I think it was just a NTC?).

http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog/Andy-...te8230/5/19907
And I do take his articles with a grain of salt. Hell, I take them with a salt mine. But I don't think that even he is dumb enough to write something so erroneous.

If Tkachuk actually did authorize a trade and if he started making his "goodbye-rounds", then he jumped the gun and should have waited. These are two big ifs, of course.

I read Strickland's articles because he has basic information collected in one place, although I can't stand his writing style because it has so many grammatical errors and misspellings and other things that don't make any sense.

For example, he said the Blues would not accept a 1st-round pick for KT, but then said "player and/or pick". Which is it bro?

And then of course you also caught the NMC faux pas.

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03-05-2009, 02:04 PM
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I love Perron, but I agree that he's not worth Kessel straight-up. However, I still wouldn't trade him for Kessel because I like Perron's breakout potential and I'd rather see him continue to develop here. Next year, when Perron scores 25 goals and approaches a point-per-game mostly by his own creation, people may be a bit more willing to compare him to Kessel - who is a good bet for 40 goals next to Savard or Krejci, but won't get a point-per-game except during his peak.

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03-05-2009, 02:12 PM
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Originally Posted by bb_fan View Post
i have to wonder about this one......, and of note, i come in peace......

first off, he has not been horrible or bad at all since coming back from mono. He's played great, he just wasnt finding the back of the net, every 'goal' scorer slumps at somepoint.

he's played mainly with Savard and Lucic, and yes, Savard is a great play maker, but if you watch Kessel, he makes alot of his own chances and plays.

and lets face it, Lucic is no Savard, or Wheeler for that matter, he's great at making space and has some hands of his own, but setting people up is not his game at all.

I really disagree with the assesment's that Kessel and Perron are of equal value trade wise (and no, not going from draft postion) and i am sure you guys (obviously!) disagree with me disagreeeing with you

Also factor in Kessle's nutty cancer and the mono that he's dealt with, and the fact that his two way game has been drasticly improved under Julien and the B's coaching staff, and i think he gets a little underrated here.

dont get me wrong, i'd love to have Perron, he should have an outstanding carrer ahead of him, but there is just no way i'd take him for Kessel one on one value wise, and going ahead (witch after Tkachuk leaves, is what boston is left with)

how reliable a source was this anyway? becuase i have a hard time thinking that Chia actually offered that himself?
I do agree that, in a trade, Kessel's value is more than Perron's. That is not to say I think one will be better than the other. If I had to pick one to be the better scorer, then I go Kessel. However, I do prefer Perron's style.

For Boston, this trade is fair given you receive KT whose value more than makes up for the deficiency between Perron and Kessel. This might not be best for Boston in the long run, it is probably best for their cup run this year.

For STL, we loose this trade in multi areas and win in just one. We win by getting (arguably) the better player in the future. However, we loose the experience of a playoff run this year, which could hurt the development of our players in the future. It could really mess with chemistry and I see similar issues with Kessel as we see with Perron in regards to Andy Murray probably handling them similarly.

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03-05-2009, 02:14 PM
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Originally Posted by bb_fan View Post
i have to wonder about this one......, and of note, i come in peace......

first off, he has not been horrible or bad at all since coming back from mono. He's played great, he just wasnt finding the back of the net, every 'goal' scorer slumps at somepoint.

he's played mainly with Savard and Lucic, and yes, Savard is a great play maker, but if you watch Kessel, he makes alot of his own chances and plays.

and lets face it, Lucic is no Savard, or Wheeler for that matter, he's great at making space and has some hands of his own, but setting people up is not his game at all.

I really disagree with the assesment's that Kessel and Perron are of equal value trade wise (and no, not going from draft postion) and i am sure you guys (obviously!) disagree with me disagreeeing with you

Also factor in Kessle's nutty cancer and the mono that he's dealt with, and the fact that his two way game has been drasticly improved under Julien and the B's coaching staff, and i think he gets a little underrated here.

dont get me wrong, i'd love to have Perron, he should have an outstanding carrer ahead of him, but there is just no way i'd take him for Kessel one on one value wise, and going ahead (witch after Tkachuk leaves, is what boston is left with)

how reliable a source was this anyway? becuase i have a hard time thinking that Chia actually offered that himself?
I dunno about the rest of the Blues fans here, but I agree with you for the most part. Kessel's career will probabl be better than Perron's, and Walt is likely a rental. That said, I'm as happier not making this trade than making it.

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03-05-2009, 02:20 PM
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I'm not a fan of hyping a players "projected" stats for upcoming years. I've seen it done time and again with our prospects. Lee Stempniak was going to be a PPG player. Marek Schwarz was going to be the next Hasek. There is some hyperbole there but not alot.

Perron is "statswise" on track with Kessels career progression so far. To say Kessel=Perron tradewise is rather obtuse. Sure we are more endeared towards Perron because we drafted him, and lets not forget we had the option to draft Kessel and choose EJ instead so there is always that little bit of thumbing our nose at him to do.

I can see most B's fans point of not wanting to do a Kessel for Tkachuk and Perron deal and I am certainly on the side of the court who doesn't believe that anything less than Kessel and a 2nd for Tkachuk and Perron would be fair either.

The only reason I wanted to see Walt traded was so that he had a more legitimate shot at winning a Stanley Cup this season. If he went through the motions and the emotional turmoil (as slight or intense as that might be there is certainly going to be tension in the decision for him) of signing the papers to waive his NTC to be traded to another team, it is disappointing that a deal never got made. But for his benefit.

I'd much rather run with Perron and damn the consequences. Perron has played well but that doesn't mean that he will progress indefinately. Same for Kessel. Time will tell who this deal would have worked out best for.

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03-05-2009, 03:15 PM
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What a terrible trade that would have been. Can someone tell me why every trade rumor we've heard involves an overpayment by the Blues?
I'm so thankful JD and Co. didn't pull any knee-jerk moves and decided to maintain a steady course.

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03-05-2009, 04:05 PM
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Originally Posted by rumrokh View Post
I love Perron, but I agree that he's not worth Kessel straight-up. However, I still wouldn't trade him for Kessel because I like Perron's breakout potential and I'd rather see him continue to develop here. Next year, when Perron scores 25 goals and approaches a point-per-game mostly by his own creation, people may be a bit more willing to compare him to Kessel - who is a good bet for 40 goals next to Savard or Krejci, but won't get a point-per-game except during his peak.
gotta really disagree there. Savard is great no doubt and anyone playing with him benefits, but to down play Kessel and essentially attribute his sucesss to his center is really reaching there.....

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03-05-2009, 04:09 PM
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Originally Posted by WalterSobchak View Post
I'm not a fan of hyping a players "projected" stats for upcoming years. I've seen it done time and again with our prospects. Lee Stempniak was going to be a PPG player. Marek Schwarz was going to be the next Hasek. There is some hyperbole there but not alot.

Perron is "statswise" on track with Kessels career progression so far. To say Kessel=Perron tradewise is rather obtuse. Sure we are more endeared towards Perron because we drafted him, and lets not forget we had the option to draft Kessel and choose EJ instead so there is always that little bit of thumbing our nose at him to do.

I can see most B's fans point of not wanting to do a Kessel for Tkachuk and Perron deal and I am certainly on the side of the court who doesn't believe that anything less than Kessel and a 2nd for Tkachuk and Perron would be fair either.

The only reason I wanted to see Walt traded was so that he had a more legitimate shot at winning a Stanley Cup this season. If he went through the motions and the emotional turmoil (as slight or intense as that might be there is certainly going to be tension in the decision for him) of signing the papers to waive his NTC to be traded to another team, it is disappointing that a deal never got made. But for his benefit.

I'd much rather run with Perron and damn the consequences. Perron has played well but that doesn't mean that he will progress indefinately. Same for Kessel. Time will tell who this deal would have worked out best for.
i dont think its a thumb the nose, its seemed like EJ was (and will be) a sure fire stud on D for years to come that you can build and anchor your team around, and thats just something that shouldnt be passed up on!

something i wish boston had for a D prosepect.....

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03-05-2009, 04:11 PM
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Can someone tell me why every trade rumor we've heard involves an overpayment by the Blues?


I was wondering the same thing...

P_B

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03-05-2009, 04:11 PM
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So Peter Chiarelli was willing to trade his 21 year old leading goal scorer and first line winger for Keith Tkachuk and David Perron? Am I reading this correctly?

This is likely the "other deal" that Chiarelli mentioned he couldn't get done and fell through at the last minute because he felt the other party was asking for too much and he wasn't willing to deal a core roster player. Tkachuk's name has been linked to the Bruins for a couple of months now, so the fact he was targeted shouldn't be a surprise to anyone.

The rumored trade however makes little to no sense from the perspective of a supposed contender like the Bruins. I can understand why the Blues would be reluctant to make such a deal aswell, but I can almost guarantee this one wasn't put together by Chiarelli and company. A reliable source on the Bruins board confirms that belief.

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03-05-2009, 04:14 PM
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good. i wouldnt have wanted that too happen.

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03-05-2009, 04:28 PM
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Andy Strickland has been told today that there's a very good chance Walt will resign here.

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03-05-2009, 04:40 PM
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I was wondering the same thing...

P_B
Strange, ain't it? We know the market wasn't there for aging power forwards, hence Billy G going for 1 conditional pick. So I can understand why (and am glad that) Tkachuk is still here. It just seems like every other offer we've heard is borderline crazy. Perhaps I'm over-valuing our players?

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03-05-2009, 05:04 PM
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gotta really disagree there. Savard is great no doubt and anyone playing with him benefits, but to down play Kessel and essentially attribute his sucesss to his center is really reaching there.....
I think you're looking to misinterpret my words if you think I was downplaying Kessel's abilities. The fact remains that he's GOING to be playing next to Savard or Krejci, right? You could swap in other good playmakers instead of Savard and I would say the same thing.

So, do you disagree that he's good for 40 goals? Or do you think he'll be playing on a line without one of those guys?

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03-05-2009, 05:13 PM
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It makes no sense for either the Blues or Bruins to trade Perron or Kessel unless they are getting back a proven top-notch player in return. Right now Kessel has the edge over Perron as he's been in the league longer and put up more points. However Perron's point totals are very comparable to Kessel's at 20 and Perron has the potential to be the better all around player as he can also play defense and annoy teams(though Kessel will probably always score more goals). Bottomline is Kessel isn't a big enough upgrade over Perron (short-term and possibly a downgrade longterm) to justify trading Perron. Perron isn't as valuable to the Bruins right now as Kessel is which means there is no way to justify parting with Kessel even with Tkachuk added in. I don't think either of these players get moved unless they are part of a package to land a clearcut superstar

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03-05-2009, 06:35 PM
  #25
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Andy Strickland has been told today that there's a very good chance Walt will resign here.
Great..

In other news, McKenna (or however you spell his name) actually talked to JD, and he said, while he can't say the team, "it's on the East Coast and they do a lot of politics there." Thus, Washington. Much more believable than some trade for Kessel.

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