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Deadline Deal that Didn't Happen

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Old
03-05-2009, 09:03 PM
  #26
redbeard7737
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Bruins fan here...just wanted to say I am not like all the other Bruins fans with blinders on...they all think Kessel is better than Oshie and the only way we move Kessel is if the Blues offer Johnson...I for one would move Kessel straight up for Perron if that were a deal...as for Oshie, love him...Berglund, same thing...and Johnson, he is a stud...just saying I am a Bruins fan first, but really like the direction the Blues are going and I can see stardom in the guys I mentioned. My keeper pool even shows this...I drafted Oshie, Berglund and Johnson and got Perron in a trade...add to that, I just picked up Backes...geez, guess I will really be cheering for high scoring games next season! Any chance Murray lets them open it up more!?

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03-05-2009, 09:09 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by redbeard7737 View Post
Bruins fan here...just wanted to say I am not like all the other Bruins fans with blinders on...they all think Kessel is better than Oshie and the only way we move Kessel is if the Blues offer Johnson...I for one would move Kessel straight up for Perron if that were a deal...as for Oshie, love him...Berglund, same thing...and Johnson, he is a stud...just saying I am a Bruins fan first, but really like the direction the Blues are going and I can see stardom in the guys I mentioned. My keeper pool even shows this...I drafted Oshie, Berglund and Johnson and got Perron in a trade...add to that, I just picked up Backes...geez, guess I will really be cheering for high scoring games next season! Any chance Murray lets them open it up more!?
At the beginning of this season we were running very wide open with our three scoring lines before the injuries settled in. It's gradually changed into a more defensive tight checking game since then. I'd expect a high flying offense again on opening day of next season.

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03-05-2009, 09:11 PM
  #28
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I would have done it, but only because Tkachuk is likely to resign here.

Losing Tkachuk for 20 games isn't a big deal.

Finishing 8th-12th in the West is fine if you're acquiring Kessel for Perron essentially.

We may have lost a little bit of chemistry with the deal, but I still would have pulled the trigger.

I love Perron, but I just don't see the major potential there. I see him as a 20G-30A guy. I hope he proves me wrong.

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03-05-2009, 09:51 PM
  #29
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Strange, ain't it? We know the market wasn't there for aging power forwards, hence Billy G going for 1 conditional pick. So I can understand why (and am glad that) Tkachuk is still here. It just seems like every other offer we've heard is borderline crazy. Perhaps I'm over-valuing our players?
Kessel for a rental and Perron, thats hardly close to the Blues over paying......

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03-05-2009, 09:56 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by redbeard7737 View Post
Bruins fan here...just wanted to say I am not like all the other Bruins fans with blinders on...they all think Kessel is better than Oshie and the only way we move Kessel is if the Blues offer Johnson...I for one would move Kessel straight up for Perron if that were a deal...as for Oshie, love him...Berglund, same thing...and Johnson, he is a stud...just saying I am a Bruins fan first, but really like the direction the Blues are going and I can see stardom in the guys I mentioned. My keeper pool even shows this...I drafted Oshie, Berglund and Johnson and got Perron in a trade...add to that, I just picked up Backes...geez, guess I will really be cheering for high scoring games next season! Any chance Murray lets them open it up more!?
1. i really question that after reading a few things
2. i dont know what the hell u are talking about? Or what EJ, Oshie, or anyone else has to do with it.
3. i really have no idea why you make rash (and wrong) generalizations about what other bruins fan think or want....

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03-05-2009, 09:59 PM
  #31
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I think you're looking to misinterpret my words if you think I was downplaying Kessel's abilities. The fact remains that he's GOING to be playing next to Savard or Krejci, right? You could swap in other good playmakers instead of Savard and I would say the same thing.

So, do you disagree that he's good for 40 goals? Or do you think he'll be playing on a line without one of those guys?
i dont think i was misinterperting anything?

you certainly seeme to imply (and say) that without a good quality center or top noth line mates that Kessel wont produce? or was that not what u ment?

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03-05-2009, 10:01 PM
  #32
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I love Perron, but I just don't see the major potential there. I see him as a 20G-30A guy. I hope he proves me wrong.
He already has 29 assists in 62 games this year. Do you think this is going to be a career year for him?

Perron's shooting percentage this year is ridiculously low - an anomaly, as he has a really good shot. The proverbial sophomore slump. His shooting percentage was ridiculously high last year. If we go somewhere between there for his projected future shooting percentage, let's say, 13%, that would put him at 17 goals already this year. At 15 minutes of icetime, that's pretty good. Bump him up to 17 minutes (second line time on the Blues) and he's only behind Boyes in goals on the Blues.

Not everything can be projected stat-wise. But I can't believe that you watch him play and you don't see 1. how skilled he is, 2. how raw he is, and 3. how much he's improved over last year.

Maybe you're just not used to watching young players develop before your eyes. Do you think Berglund is going to continue to be terrible at faceoffs? Do you think he'll hit a wall half-way through every season like he has this year? No, because he's 20 years old, just like Perron.

Perron has a very good chance to hit your 50 point prediction this year as a 20 year old. What, specifically, makes you think that's his ceiling?

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03-05-2009, 10:07 PM
  #33
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i dont think i was misinterperting anything?

you certainly seeme to imply (and say) that without a good quality center or top noth line mates that Kessel wont produce? or was that not what u ment?
No, that's not what I meant. Because that's not what I said. Read the literal words in my post. I do not say or imply that Kessel won't produce. I said he's a good shot for 40 goals next to Savard or Krejci. Just like Brett Hull was a good shot for 70+ goals next to Oates or 50+ goals next to Janney. Does that imply to you that Hull didn't produce without top linemates? No. It simply accurately describes reality. Any issue beyond that is in your imagination.

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03-05-2009, 10:12 PM
  #34
Randall Ritchey
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I would have pulled the trigger. It is essentially Perron for Kessel. Which would have been a hell of a deal for St. Louis.

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03-05-2009, 10:24 PM
  #35
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He already has 29 assists in 62 games this year. Do you think this is going to be a career year for him?

Perron's shooting percentage this year is ridiculously low - an anomaly, as he has a really good shot. The proverbial sophomore slump. His shooting percentage was ridiculously high last year. If we go somewhere between there for his projected future shooting percentage, let's say, 13%, that would put him at 17 goals already this year. At 15 minutes of icetime, that's pretty good. Bump him up to 17 minutes (second line time on the Blues) and he's only behind Boyes in goals on the Blues.

Not everything can be projected stat-wise. But I can't believe that you watch him play and you don't see 1. how skilled he is, 2. how raw he is, and 3. how much he's improved over last year.

Maybe you're just not used to watching young players develop before your eyes. Do you think Berglund is going to continue to be terrible at faceoffs? Do you think he'll hit a wall half-way through every season like he has this year? No, because he's 20 years old, just like Perron.

Perron has a very good chance to hit your 50 point prediction this year as a 20 year old. What, specifically, makes you think that's his ceiling?
You make very good points, but like I said, it's just a gut feeling.

I don't see him breaking out. I have nothing to go on but my own personal instincts.

I know he is very skilled, and I know he is very raw. That's what you get out of a 20-year old who was drafted 2 years ago.

I see an improvement over last year, but since Murray was benching him almost every other game last year it seemed like, an improvement was expected as he received consistency.

As for Berglund, I put him in almost an entire different category. I see the star potential in him. He's a monster.

To be honest with you, I really didn't think Perron already had 29 assists. I figured he had about 20 or so. With him on the 4th line now, there's sort of been a cloud cast upon David.

I just don't see the "star" potential in Perron like I do in other players, but I really do hope he proves me wrong.

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Old
03-05-2009, 10:36 PM
  #36
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In other news, McKenna (or however you spell his name) actually talked to JD, and he said, while he can't say the team, "it's on the East Coast and they do a lot of politics there." Thus, Washington. Much more believable than some trade for Kessel.
The quote was "lots of politicians from there." You know, like JFK, Ted Kennedy, John Kerry...all from Massachusetts. Regardless, I'm surprised JD gave a hint like that.

Another thing worth mentioning is that Strickland said the Tkachuk + Perron for Kessel thing is completely false...which makes sense to me. Teams about to go on a long playoff run generally don't trade their leading scorers...

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03-06-2009, 12:44 AM
  #37
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1. i really question that after reading a few things
2. i dont know what the hell u are talking about? Or what EJ, Oshie, or anyone else has to do with it.
3. i really have no idea why you make rash (and wrong) generalizations about what other bruins fan think or want....
1. I am a huge fan of the Bruins, does not mean I can't think a team needs a change and a player from another team could do a better job on the team
2 and 3. The 8 or 9 pages of opinions on the "Trade that could have been" thread where it all of a sudden had people talking about the only way they would move Kessel is if it were for Eric Johnson, or Oshie and Berglund, etc...

You are entitled to your opinion and I am to mine...just saying I think highly of the Blues prospects/young guys and think Kessel is overrated/one dimensional...And ask any Blues fan if they would move Johnson/Oshie/Berglund even straight up for Kessel and they would all say NO.

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03-06-2009, 12:55 AM
  #38
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Kessel for a rental and Perron, thats hardly close to the Blues over paying......
I'll repeat what's been posted several times.

Kessel is RFA after THIS year. The Blues couldn't sign him, Perron and Johnson after next year as well as Oshie and Berglund the year after that.

Especially given that the cap will likely drop.

And now according to sources within and around the organization, the trade discussed here was NEVER on the table.

I'll say it again here like I did over at the Bruins board. Oshie and Berglund are going to be better players than Kessel. That's not to say Kessel isn't a good player. That's what some of you guys are all whining about over there. It's ok for another team to have better prospects. Even some of your fans agree with that premise. It's not something to get in a huff about. It's not a big deal.

I'm still disappointed that we got rid of Wideman. Everybody says we won that trade, but I'm not one who believes that. But I digress..


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Old
03-07-2009, 10:32 PM
  #39
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I'll repeat what's been posted several times.

Kessel is RFA after THIS year. The Blues couldn't sign him, Perron and Johnson after next year as well as Oshie and Berglund the year after that.

Especially given that the cap will likely drop.

And now according to sources within and around the organization, the trade discussed here was NEVER on the table.

I'll say it again here like I did over at the Bruins board. Oshie and Berglund are going to be better players than Kessel. That's not to say Kessel isn't a good player. That's what some of you guys are all whining about over there. It's ok for another team to have better prospects. Even some of your fans agree with that premise. It's not something to get in a huff about. It's not a big deal.

I'm still disappointed that we got rid of Wideman. Everybody says we won that trade, but I'm not one who believes that. But I digress..
the first was pretty irrelavant to your posts comparing Kessel to Perron.

the other thing being i dont really care what some people are 'whining' about in regards to Oshie and Bergland (seeing as how i made no mention of them) and considering some of your other comments in that thread i really wouldnt be talking about people being huffy or whining just because they dont agree with your assesment of players.

and the only other blues related prospect i mentione was EJ and how i couldnt see any team passing on him, so i really dont see what you are in a huff over as i havent even discussed any stl prospects.

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03-08-2009, 12:15 AM
  #40
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as a bruins fan, i wish you guys pulled that deal off.

I think Tkachuk (and Recchi) could have replaced Kessel's production from this season and next year on I think Perron could equal Kessel.

I'd love to have a guy with such tremendous individual moves like Perron. For those wondering on the first page, yes almost all season Kessel has played with Savard (and Lucic) on the top line, and without Savard I think it's safe to say Kessel wouldn't have 20 goals right now.

not that it's a bad thing, but I would guess of Kessel's 27 goals, at least 15 have Savard as the first assist, and of the rest, Lucic probably has at least 5 first assists.

He's a good player, but he still coughs it up a lot, doesn't do anything along the boards, can't pass well...about all he has is a wicked good wrister.

I'd have taken Perron+Tkachuk for Kessel, even if Keith re-signs with you guys.

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03-08-2009, 11:30 AM
  #41
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the first was pretty irrelavant to your posts comparing Kessel to Perron.

the other thing being i dont really care what some people are 'whining' about in regards to Oshie and Bergland (seeing as how i made no mention of them) and considering some of your other comments in that thread i really wouldnt be talking about people being huffy or whining just because they dont agree with your assesment of players.

and the only other blues related prospect i mentione was EJ and how i couldnt see any team passing on him, so i really dont see what you are in a huff over as i havent even discussed any stl prospects.
How is it irrelevant? That's a point of why the trade NEVER would have happened and why we would have never done it in the fist place. Makes perfect sense.

You lack any sensibility if you think that none of the Blues prospects should have been included in any deal to get Kessel. As I said again, you and many others are overvaluing Kessel. Where is the beating a dead horse icon? Insert it here.

I'm not sure why you bolded the last part of my last post. That has to do with Boyes/Wideman. I'm assuming you think that I posted that you guys would have won that proposed trade (trade in discussion) had it went down. You should re-read it as it has nothing to do with Kessel or Perron/KT.

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03-08-2009, 11:38 AM
  #42
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Bruins fan here...just wanted to say I am not like all the other Bruins fans with blinders on...they all think Kessel is better than Oshie and the only way we move Kessel is if the Blues offer Johnson...I for one would move Kessel straight up for Perron if that were a deal...as for Oshie, love him...Berglund, same thing...and Johnson, he is a stud...just saying I am a Bruins fan first, but really like the direction the Blues are going and I can see stardom in the guys I mentioned. My keeper pool even shows this...I drafted Oshie, Berglund and Johnson and got Perron in a trade...add to that, I just picked up Backes...geez, guess I will really be cheering for high scoring games next season! Any chance Murray lets them open it up more!?
Bruins fan here as well. And yeah, Oshie and Berglund will defenitley be more rounded than Kessel and all around better but how could you say you'd do Kessel straight up for Perron? Kessel is a goal scorer, and Perron is not. Kessel is what we need.

Although I have to say can't wait for the future of St. Louis....love to see Johnson come back.

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03-08-2009, 11:51 AM
  #43
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Last season, it actually seemed like Perron could turn into a decent sniper. He only had one less goal than he did assists (13 goals and 14 assists) and he usually wasn't playing with skilled linemates and didn't see a lot of time on the PP.

This season, he's become a pass first guy for whatever reason. I remember at a point last night somebody passed him the puck right in front of the net and he just passed it right on over to another guy instead of taking the shot. Maybe he didn't seen an opening, but almost any other player would have taken the shot anyway.

Time will tell which Perron is the "real" Perron. I hope he'll become a little bit of both.

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03-08-2009, 11:59 AM
  #44
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Last season, it actually seemed like Perron could turn into a decent sniper. He only had one less goal than he did assists (13 goals and 14 assists) and he usually wasn't playing with skilled linemates and didn't see a lot of time on the PP.

This season, he's become a pass first guy for whatever reason. I remember at a point last night somebody passed him the puck right in front of the net and he just passed it right on over to another guy instead of taking the shot. Maybe he didn't seen an opening, but almost any other player would have taken the shot anyway.

Time will tell which Perron is the "real" Perron. I hope he'll become a little bit of both.
I think Perron will always be more effective as a passer than a goal scorer. I see him as a 20/25 goal 45/50 assist guy.

With more maturity and more ice time surrounded by capable players (not Janssen or Hinote), he should reach those levels very soon.

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03-08-2009, 01:02 PM
  #45
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I think Perron will always be more effective as a passer than a goal scorer. I see him as a 20/25 goal 45/50 assist guy.

With more maturity and more ice time surrounded by capable players (not Janssen or Hinote), he should reach those levels very soon.
I think we are on the same page as far as the amount of points and the distribution of them.

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03-08-2009, 02:12 PM
  #46
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I think Perron will always be more effective as a passer than a goal scorer. I see him as a 20/25 goal 45/50 assist guy.

With more maturity and more ice time surrounded by capable players (not Janssen or Hinote), he should reach those levels very soon.
I think Perron will be a well-rounded forward after he reaches maturity (gains much more strength and his body fills out). He's always scored goals at a good clip. He has a good shot and the moves. When he's bulkier and stronger he'll be able to drive the net much better. He'll be able to compliment his linemates well, by taking their passes and shooting, or by setting them up. Remember that he's only 20, and still learning the NHL game.

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03-09-2009, 09:57 AM
  #47
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I think Perron will be a well-rounded forward after he reaches maturity (gains much more strength and his body fills out). He's always scored goals at a good clip. He has a good shot and the moves. When he's bulkier and stronger he'll be able to drive the net much better. He'll be able to compliment his linemates well, by taking their passes and shooting, or by setting them up. Remember that he's only 20, and still learning the NHL game.
I agree that he's got the potential to score more goals, but he's not going to do that as long as he's playing 10 minutes per game with fourth line "energy" (checking line) players.

Why he's on that line is another argument. We all agree on his potential.

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03-09-2009, 10:17 AM
  #48
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I agree that he's got the potential to score more goals, but he's not going to do that as long as he's playing 10 minutes per game with fourth line "energy" (checking line) players.

Why he's on that line is another argument. We all agree on his potential.
I guess it all depends on how you look at it. Is he on that line because he's not producing or is he not producing because he's on that line? Since he was pretty ineffective for a few games while still on the 2nd line prior to being demoted, I'd have to say he's on that line because he wasn't producing. In the grand scheme of things, it's not a big deal at all. He's a kid still learning the NHL game. In the long run, he'll be fine. Besides, he's mostly been playing on scoring lines the past couple games so it's not really much to complain about anymore.

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03-09-2009, 10:36 AM
  #49
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I guess it all depends on how you look at it. Is he on that line because he's not producing or is he not producing because he's on that line? Since he was pretty ineffective for a few games while still on the 2nd line prior to being demoted, I'd have to say he's on that line because he wasn't producing. In the grand scheme of things, it's not a big deal at all. He's a kid still learning the NHL game. In the long run, he'll be fine. Besides, he's mostly been playing on scoring lines the past couple games so it's not really much to complain about anymore.
Like I said, that's another argument and we've all been involved in it in some way or another and have differing opinions.

But I'm pretty sure we all know his potential and agree he'll reach it at some point. Whether Murray is here or not.

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03-09-2009, 05:12 PM
  #50
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He already has 29 assists in 62 games this year. Do you think this is going to be a career year for him?

Perron's shooting percentage this year is ridiculously low - an anomaly, as he has a really good shot. The proverbial sophomore slump. His shooting percentage was ridiculously high last year. If we go somewhere between there for his projected future shooting percentage, let's say, 13%, that would put him at 17 goals already this year. At 15 minutes of icetime, that's pretty good. Bump him up to 17 minutes (second line time on the Blues) and he's only behind Boyes in goals on the Blues.

Not everything can be projected stat-wise. But I can't believe that you watch him play and you don't see 1. how skilled he is, 2. how raw he is, and 3. how much he's improved over last year.

Maybe you're just not used to watching young players develop before your eyes. Do you think Berglund is going to continue to be terrible at faceoffs? Do you think he'll hit a wall half-way through every season like he has this year? No, because he's 20 years old, just like Perron.

Perron has a very good chance to hit your 50 point prediction this year as a 20 year old. What, specifically, makes you think that's his ceiling?
In all fairness, I do see all of that and I still question whether he can utilize that raw talent and reach his potential. There is something in his game that suggests he will not, although I am not yet able to describe it. Then again, he is only 20, so he obviously still has time. Regardless, I love watching the kid play.

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