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Ok, Take it for what it's worth

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Old
03-13-2004, 02:22 AM
  #1
hockey_101
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Ok, Take it for what it's worth

Alright, I know a lot of people are skeptical about unfounded sources, but I recieved a bit of information about Steve Moore today that bodes well for the young man. For those who don't know, I live in the Vancouver area. My friend works at a fine dining restaurant as a server (I know, I know, sounds fishy already, right?). Anyway, he was talking with one of his customers tonight who is a surgeon, and his close friend and coleague is the doctor who worked on Steve Moore. Needless to say, he couldn't really get into the details of the procedure, but said that essentially it is certain that Steve will recover fully, and SOON. Of particular interest, he said he wouldn't be surprised if Steve skated in the playoffs - and that his injury was completely blown out of proportion by everyone. Not to say that what happened to him wasn't terrible - it's just that most people hear 'broken neck' and immediately think wheelchairs. In this case, the small fracture in Moore's vertebrae is expected to quickly heal to 100% bone density and there was absolutely no nerve damage.

So, again, take it for what it's worth. This isn't exactly new news, but this is as close to official confirmation on Moore's status as I've heard. Anyway, I posted this as a new topic because I think it is good and important news about this kids' status.

Later.

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03-13-2004, 02:42 AM
  #2
Luigi Lemieux
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if moore is back playing in these playoffs, then i think the suspension was too harsh.

you have johnson who ended beukeboom's career only getting 12 games.

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03-13-2004, 02:58 AM
  #3
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I have heard from elsewhere that Moore could be skating in 4 weeks. Regardless the suspension is still fine with me. Bertuzzi would likely be reinstated for the World Cup, if added, if thats the case.

 
Old
03-13-2004, 03:00 AM
  #4
Trottier
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Metamorphosis
if moore is back playing in these playoffs, then i think the suspension was too harsh.

you have johnson who ended beukeboom's career only getting 12 games.
Respectfully, that logic (comparing one situation to another several years ago) is flawed. If, indeed, a mistake was made with Johnson's "light" supsension, then why make another?

The severity of the injury is a factor in the suspension, it is not the only factor by a longshot, nor should it be. The NHL got it perfectly right this time.

And while I am not calling the original poster on his story, the idea that anyone, regardless of his medical credentials, terms Steve Moore's injury "completely blown out of proportion" leaves this reader feeling, ummm, unpleasant. Perhaps it was just a poor choice of words, perhaps I'm reading into it a bit too much. Perhaps this thread should be closed, for it is unsubstantiated rumor, and the topic is a rather serious one. That is, a false trade rumor is one thing, this is another.

Words are all we have to go by on these boards, you know?


Last edited by Trottier: 03-13-2004 at 03:03 AM.
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Old
03-13-2004, 03:01 AM
  #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Metamorphosis
if moore is back playing in these playoffs, then i think the suspension was too harsh.

you have johnson who ended beukeboom's career only getting 12 games.
You can't base suspensions on how long a player is out. The brutal intent was still there to really hurt Moore. If I shot a bullet at your head but missed, does that mean I should have to only serve 10 hours of community service? But I do agree that Johnson should have gotten a lot more than just 12 games.

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03-13-2004, 03:05 AM
  #6
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Originally Posted by Yoshi
My neighbor's cousin's best friend's aunt knows a guy who used to be friends with someone who knew Terry Sawchuk before he died. Sawchuk's grandson's nephew's ex-wife used to date a guy who went to med school with one of the surgeons who works at the same hospital as the guys who operated on Steve Moore, and they said that he's in bad shape.

Seriously, someone ban this clown.
And you are going to believe the Denver Media.. LOL!.. I'd believe a pigeon before I believe anything they say.

 
Old
03-13-2004, 03:15 AM
  #7
Finkle is Einhorn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fonzyg
You can't base suspensions on how long a player is out. The brutal intent was still there to really hurt Moore. If I shot a bullet at your head but missed, does that mean I should have to only serve 10 hours of community service? But I do agree that Johnson should have gotten a lot more than just 12 games.
Although it's irrelevant, if you shot a bullet at my head and missed, you would surely serve less time than if you had hit me in between the eyes. 10 hours of community service? No. But certainly nothing as severe as a murder charge.

Johnson's suspension was too light looking back on it, but I don't really recall anyone being up in arms about the leniancy of the suspension back when it happened. And I certainly never saw anything about it on Regis and Kathie Lee.....

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03-13-2004, 03:33 AM
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by battle axe
Although it's irrelevant, if you shot a bullet at my head and missed, you would surely serve less time than if you had hit me in between the eyes. 10 hours of community service? No. But certainly nothing as severe as a murder charge.

Johnson's suspension was too light looking back on it, but I don't really recall anyone being up in arms about the leniancy of the suspension back when it happened. And I certainly never saw anything about it on Regis and Kathie Lee.....
very true.....the serverity of the injury is also a factor. The actions of Bertuzzi warranted a pretty severe penalty because of how bad he hurt Moore and how bad he COULD have hurt Moore.

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03-13-2004, 03:35 AM
  #9
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Head injuries are very hard to determine. There is absolutely NO time frame for returns. Some guys are out for a week, some for a month, others for years (believe me, I'm a Kings fan, I know this!)... everybody is different. Moore suffered a very serious neck injury and a concussion. If this person really knows anything, he wouldn't have said what he said. That's just stupid. You don't go talking about patients in public like that. I am a nursing student and that's one of the first things you learn. Don't talk to people about your patients UNLESS it is a family member of the patient. You'd need consent from the patient and the family member before you release any type of information like that. It's called confidentiality and clearly, this "surgeon" didn't learn that in college.

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03-13-2004, 05:08 AM
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by battle axe
Johnson's suspension was too light looking back on it, but I don't really recall anyone being up in arms about the leniancy of the suspension back when it happened. And I certainly never saw anything about it on Regis and Kathie Lee.....
Doesn't that seem to suggest that this was a far worse incident? If Moore can skate for the playoffs, that's great. Reinstate Bertuzzi. Still don't really want to see him representing my country. Doesn't change that the suspension is the right length for the viciousness of the attack.

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Old
03-13-2004, 06:25 AM
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trottier
Respectfully, that logic (comparing one situation to another several years ago) is flawed. If, indeed, a mistake was made with Johnson's "light" supsension, then why make another?

The severity of the injury is a factor in the suspension, it is not the only factor by a longshot, nor should it be. The NHL got it perfectly right this time.



Words are all we have to go by on these boards, you know?


If the severity of the injury is a factor at all, in this case probably the most important factor, and the injury isn't as severe as originally thought, then isn't the suspension itself too severe? My biggest problem in this whole ordeal is that the people who support an extremely long suspension of Bert do so no matter what. They argue that Bert should be banned for a year or more because he broke the guys neck and you have to take the injury into consideration but on the other hand even if Moore could return

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03-13-2004, 06:28 AM
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by explosivethinman
If the severity of the injury is a factor at all, in this case probably the most important factor, and the injury isn't as severe as originally thought, then isn't the suspension itself too severe? My biggest problem in this whole ordeal is that the people who support an extremely long suspension of Bert do so no matter what. They argue that Bert should be banned for a year or more because he broke the guys neck and you have to take the injury into consideration but on the other hand even if Moore could return

Sorry for the mishap with the last post. To finish my point, people want Bert banned no matter how long Moore is injured and it just seems like piling on to me.

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Old
03-13-2004, 06:31 AM
  #13
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Broken Vertebraes do not heal in 3 weeks.

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Old
03-13-2004, 06:48 AM
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Metamorphosis
if moore is back playing in these playoffs, then i think the suspension was too harsh.

you have johnson who ended beukeboom's career only getting 12 games.
Although these "longer suspensions" have some effect usually they are short lived. Johnson's suspension should have been longer but I think more (a lot more) 1,2,3,5...game suspensions would help. I ihink when Bertuzzi watched the tape he probably thought "UHG!, I didn't think it would look THAT bad".

How about looking at the tapes after the game. Any intentional or intentionally reckless shots of any kind toward the head are automatically a minimum 1 game suspension. The same process could be used to discourage kneeing, checking from behind and even diving.This can be done on an ad hoc basis where the opposing team can submit tape "events" of any player from his team's last 5 games that have hitherto gone unpunished. No hearing required unless the suspension is more than 1 game. If it's 1 game and appealed it becomes the next 2 after the appeal if it is upheld. The league can rule it "acceptable" or "inconclusive" in which case there's no suspension and the team submitting the tape pays for the process. The "fee" for the process can vary for differeht teams on a number of unsucessful submissions basis or large market/small market basis but should be kept reasonable, as should the time/effort taken to view the tapes. If its not clear in, say, 60 minutes it can be considered inconclusive. Not everything is clear on tape. But I would suspect this would clean up the game more than "one big suspension every 5 years" and then maybe players brains would be better able to absorb the punishment when a "real" accident occurs.

I have no idea when Steve Moore will play again but I suspect he will be skating with at least one "nail" in the concussion syndrome coffin when he returns.

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Old
03-13-2004, 07:43 AM
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heaton
Broken Vertebraes do not heal in 3 weeks.
Not broken vertebraes. Apparently he has "micro-fractures" in two vertebrae.

I've heard from two different sources, one being Colin Campbell on a radio interview, that Moore could be back playing in 4-6 weeks, depending upon how he recovers from the concussion.

The vertebrae will be healed in 3-4 weeks.

The Colin Campbell interview was on WFAN in NY on Thurday afternoon. I did hear the 4-6 week time table from one other source, but I can't recall who it is at this time.

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Old
03-13-2004, 10:32 AM
  #16
Finkle is Einhorn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Superfluous U
Doesn't that seem to suggest that this was a far worse incident? If Moore can skate for the playoffs, that's great. Reinstate Bertuzzi. Still don't really want to see him representing my country. Doesn't change that the suspension is the right length for the viciousness of the attack.
While I don't disagree that this incident was worse than Johnson's, I still can't believe how big of a story this was. Scott Taylor of the Winnipeg Free Press said something to the effects of "this is the biggest hockey story ever". He said there was more reaction to this in Canada than there was after the gold medal win in Salt Lake. I realize that it's a different situation from almost anything we've seen in hockey before, but I can honestly say that I didn't expect the ladies from "The View" to be talking about it.

I don't know if you think that I want the suspension to change if Moore comes back, because I would never argue that. Besides, if the NHL was to do this, there would be a serious undermining of authority that I don't think the league would want to get into. I would say that if the NHL was thinking of expanding or contracting the length of the suspension before they gave their ruling, the appropriate thing to do would be to suspend Bertuzzi until the end of the season, and then review everything that has taken place after the incident (Moore's recovery process and such).

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Old
03-13-2004, 12:49 PM
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Metamorphosis
if moore is back playing in these playoffs, then i think the suspension was too harsh.

you have johnson who ended beukeboom's career only getting 12 games.

the suspension is not to harsh.

Doenst anyone get it??? Even if Moore recovers 100% and plays in the playoffs, the point is he was probaly a fraction of a fraction of an inch of sitting in a wheel chair.

The suspension and penalty for Bertuzzi is to make everyone wake and realize that there careless actions, while not intended to cause serious injury, could very well do so and it wont be tolerated,

You dont wait for someone to die on the ice to let the players know that stuff like that wont be tolerated.

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Old
03-13-2004, 01:07 PM
  #18
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Originally Posted by nucks2001
And you are going to believe the Denver Media.. LOL!.. I'd believe a pigeon before I believe anything they say.

And we're supposed to believe that a group of conspiracy theorists who think Bertuzzi got over penalized somehow has all this inside information about the goings on with the Avalanche, thanks to a game of broken telephone?

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Old
03-13-2004, 01:17 PM
  #19
WalterSobchak
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Metamorphosis
if moore is back playing in these playoffs, then i think the suspension was too harsh.

you have johnson who ended beukeboom's career only getting 12 games.
The punishment doesn't have to (and shouldn't in my opinion) mirror result of the infraction.

The intent to injure was there. 'Nuff said. His punishment is fine with me and sets a good precident

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Old
03-13-2004, 01:47 PM
  #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Metamorphosis
if moore is back playing in these playoffs, then i think the suspension was too harsh.
It was a bad suspension anyway. It's the first elastic suspension in league history. If the Cancuks go deep into the playoffs, Bertuzzi could miss 40 games. If they go out in one round, it could be about 20. And then you have Bettman (not the BOD, BTW) who will decide whether its PC for Bertuzzi to come back next season.

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03-13-2004, 01:52 PM
  #21
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Originally Posted by fonzyg
If I shot a bullet at your head but missed, does that mean I should have to only serve 10 hours of community service?
That's how the NHL works, nobodies ever been suspended for a missed elbow, but it's still thrown, is it not? The intent is there whether he hits or misses.

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03-13-2004, 01:53 PM
  #22
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Originally Posted by NJD Jester
It was a bad suspension anyway. It's the first elastic suspension in league history. If the Cancuks go deep into the playoffs, Bertuzzi could miss 40 games. If they go out in one round, it could be about 20. And then you have Bettman (not the BOD, BTW) who will decide whether its PC for Bertuzzi to come back next season.
Domi got the remainder of the playoffs, unless the Leafs lost, then he'd get more games. I believe that's similar...maybe not exactly the same based on how open ended they left it in Bertuzzi's case, but it's similar.

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03-13-2004, 01:56 PM
  #23
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And we're supposed to believe that a group of conspiracy theorists who think Bertuzzi got over penalized somehow has all this inside information about the goings on with the Avalanche, thanks to a game of broken telephone?
Read my other post.. I never said Bertuzzi was over penalized.. thanks for trying though.

 
Old
03-13-2004, 02:02 PM
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GregStack
Domi got the remainder of the playoffs, unless the Leafs lost, then he'd get more games. I believe that's similar...maybe not exactly the same based on how open ended they left it in Bertuzzi's case, but it's similar.
True, but with Domi it happened in the postseason, right?

I guess what makes it different is that they never said Bertuzzi won't get another 40 games next season if Moore doesn't recover...

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Old
03-13-2004, 02:05 PM
  #25
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Okay, so your friend, who is a server, talked to a doctor, whose friend is a surgeon, who just happened to work on Steve Moore?

Spare me.

It doesn't matter how soon Steve is back, the suspesnion should still be as lengthy if not more.

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