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You're Pens GM Ray Shero in the Offseason...

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Old
03-13-2009, 08:39 AM
  #201
rt
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To PIT:
Peter Mueller
Enver Lisin
Todd Fedoruk
David Hale

To PHX:
Jordan Staal
Alex Goligoski

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Originally Posted by Geno12 View Post
i'll tell Shero where to sign!
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Originally Posted by The Pens Are Back View Post
thats a real good offer.
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Originally Posted by sgupca View Post
Thats a decent offer.
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Originally Posted by AgentM View Post
I agree w/my Penguin fan brothers that this looks like a fair deal from our side.
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Originally Posted by Champagne Wishes View Post
Not a terrible offer, but I'd still pass without much hesistation.
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Originally Posted by Letang58 View Post
That is a very good offer.
Wow. Not typical responses to a trade proposal. I must have ripped my own team off.

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Old
03-13-2009, 09:02 AM
  #202
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Wow. Not typical responses to a trade proposal. I must have ripped my own team off.
Mueller and Lisin could be the RWs for Sid and Geno to grow up and dominate with. How well does Mueller play as a wing as compared to at center?

I'd really hate to move Staal at this point though after the way he's be playing the past couple of weeks! He's been an absolute beast on the forecheck and has been winning every puck on the boards. His trade value is going up up up right now

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Old
03-13-2009, 10:41 AM
  #203
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Originally Posted by fedro91 View Post

To Montreal; Jordan Staal + Bill Thomas + 4th 09 + 1st 2010 + Alex Grant + 5th 2010

To Pittsburgh; Siarhei Kastsitsyn + Guillaume Latendresse + Josh Gorge + 2nd 2009 + 3rd 2009
In what language is that ???

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Old
03-13-2009, 11:31 AM
  #204
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Originally Posted by <Mr Jiggyfly> View Post
Fixed for accuracy.
lol that must be it. Pens can't afford to ice a contender in a cap era with 2 players making 17 million. 27 million goes to 4 players so that leaves them with roughly 23 million to fill out the roster with cheap scrubs. 1 of the big 2 will be traded if the cap drops below 50 million. It's not a knock on the Pens, just harsh reality in a cap era.

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Old
03-13-2009, 02:40 PM
  #205
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How well does Mueller play as a wing as compared to at center?
He's played almost exlusively at RW in his NHL career. He's spent some time on his off-wing, as well, and I actually really liked what I saw from him on that left side. He started his rookie season at center and it go too well, which is why his was switched to wing. Since the Jokinen trade he's spent a couple of games, or at least parts of games, at center. I prefer him on the wing for sure.

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Old
03-13-2009, 05:25 PM
  #206
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Wow. Not typical responses to a trade proposal. I must have ripped my own team off.
For the record, I'm pretty staunchly opposed to it.

It's only not terrible by virtue of the fact that you're giving up a young player of value too, which is more than one can say for 99% of the proposals on this board. All relative.

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Old
03-13-2009, 05:47 PM
  #207
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He's played almost exlusively at RW in his NHL career. He's spent some time on his off-wing, as well, and I actually really liked what I saw from him on that left side. He started his rookie season at center and it go too well, which is why his was switched to wing. Since the Jokinen trade he's spent a couple of games, or at least parts of games, at center. I prefer him on the wing for sure.
Great, thanks for the scouting report my friend! Has he been gelling with any particular player or any particular type of players? I hate that I get to see Western Conference teams so infrequently

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Old
03-13-2009, 09:04 PM
  #208
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Goligoski, Satan

for

Lapierre (MTL)

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Old
03-13-2009, 09:41 PM
  #209
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Kunitz-crosby-gionta(4.2)

Zednik(1.5)-malkin-lehtinen(2.5)

Cooke-staal-kennedy

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Old
03-13-2009, 09:54 PM
  #210
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snow Miser View Post
Let me try to clarify the thinking about trading Staal. Currently Sid and Geno make up around 30% of Pens cap space. In order to maximize this investment, they should be surrounded by skilled players. Paying Staal $4 million to play on the 3rd line inhibits the ability to do this. To protect this investment, you should also have someone one their line who will jump in if anyone starts crap with them.

Dupuis and Kennedy are similar players. Both have speed, but neither is big nor is blessed with exceptional offensive skills. Both look well suited for 3rd line duty. Dupuis makes about twice as much as Kennedy, so given the choice I'd keep Kennedy in a salary cap era.

Let's look at the potential line mates for Sid and Geno. They both tend to be set-up guys, so they really should play with a sniper to get the full use out of them. If you also have someone to play around the net for deflections, rebounds, and garbage goals, then you have the potential for a solid scoring line. There is no one currently on the Pens that I would consider a sniper to play with these two, so I tried to find someone cheap who can fit the bill. My two choices were Filatov and Kovalev.

Getting the most out of Sid is more important to me than having Staal playing on the 3rd line.

I also tried to have a power-forward type player and a speed player on each line for balance. I see Tangradi and Caputi as similar type players (big and will drive the net). If I put Tangradi on the 4th line because I am unsure how good he will be in the NHL at this time, then I am putting Kennedy on his line for speed to balance out the line (Tangradi is not known to be fast). This is nothing against Kennedy, it is just what I think would make a solid line. Talbot is the "speed" guy on the 3rd line, so Kennedy would be redundant here.

Some people may want to put all speed guys or all grinders on a line. This is just personal preference. I just prefer to have a mix of players on a line.
thank you for the reply, and don't get me wrong, i do completely understand your line of thinking, especially the mix of players on a line comment. i generally love that too, and it is very successful if teams have the depth to do it...

i think where i'm coming from is i'm putting a lot of faith in the young guys to add the secondary scoring, guys like caputi and kennedy... and to be honest, in a unique way, i'd love to just try tangradi with crosby and caputi for a couple games just to see it.. in the end we never know who will just 'have' that chemistry with sid.


overally, i think i'm just banking on the homegrown talent, which would be cheap, which would allow for that strength down the middle...

i think the other experiment we might still see, is if the penguins and sign a ufa center that can be a solid but affordable third liner, me may finally see jordan staal on the wing permanently, trying to recapture that offense...

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Old
03-13-2009, 10:06 PM
  #211
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Originally Posted by SFKingshomer View Post
lol that must be it. Pens can't afford to ice a contender in a cap era with 2 players making 17 million. 27 million goes to 4 players so that leaves them with roughly 23 million to fill out the roster with cheap scrubs. 1 of the big 2 will be traded if the cap drops below 50 million. It's not a knock on the Pens, just harsh reality in a cap era.
Orpik and Staal could be moved to clear over eight million dollars.

That happens long before Crosby or Malkin is traded.

If either was dealt for a king's ransom, that would amount in time to a much bigger collective cap hit than is on either Crosby or Malkin.

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Old
03-13-2009, 10:57 PM
  #212
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Malkin and Crosby are not going anywhere. sorry.

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Old
03-14-2009, 02:10 AM
  #213
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RW Fernando Pisani
RW Ales Hemsky
3rd '09

:

D Alex Goligoski
C Jordan Staal

Kunitz-Crosby-Kennedy
Sykora-Malkin-Hemsky
Dupuis-Talbot-Pisani
Cooke-Jeffrey-Godard

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Old
03-14-2009, 02:22 AM
  #214
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Originally Posted by WeSt_CoAsT_eXpReSs View Post
imo ... the pens should try and deal Staal ... i think a good deal would be jordan staal + for nathan horton there staal would get the chance to be the number 1 center and pens get a young winger to join the mix
Unless Staal does something magical I think he is gone but not for Horton. They will want a roster player back but they won't want another $4 million guy. Someone younger and cheaper but with a good upside. There is lots of arguement as to what Staal is actually worth and I am sure there are varying opinions amongst the various GMs as well. He will go to someplace that thinks he is a budding star and they will have to pay a lot for him.

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03-14-2009, 10:50 AM
  #215
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Originally Posted by Mr Bugg View Post
:

RW Fernando Pisani
RW Ales Hemsky
3rd '09

:

D Alex Goligoski
C Jordan Staal

Kunitz-Crosby-Kennedy
Sykora-Malkin-Hemsky
Dupuis-Talbot-Pisani
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Old
03-14-2009, 01:14 PM
  #216
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Great, thanks for the scouting report my friend! Has he been gelling with any particular player or any particular type of players? I hate that I get to see Western Conference teams so infrequently
He's a shooter. He likes to get into good position, take a pass, and rip it past the goalie. Unfortunately, that's not happening as much as he would like, this season.

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Old
03-14-2009, 03:04 PM
  #217
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Originally Posted by nuck View Post
Unless Staal does something magical I think he is gone but not for Horton. They will want a roster player back but they won't want another $4 million guy. Someone younger and cheaper but with a good upside. There is lots of arguement as to what Staal is actually worth and I am sure there are varying opinions amongst the various GMs as well. He will go to someplace that thinks he is a budding star and they will have to pay a lot for him.
Salary's not really the issue. The fact that he's a center making 4 million a year and will never be able to jump over Crosby or Malkin on the depth chart even if he reaches his full potential is the issue.

Pens would strongly consider Staal for Horton. I'm not sure Florida's looking to move Horton though.

I've watched every game of his career. Jordan Staal's going to be a good one. Bylsma's put in a new system that's more aggressive and more of a give and go style and it seems to fit Staal perfect.

He's only 20. He has room to gain another 10-20 pounds. Even I gained 10 + pounds between 20-24 years old and I'm not nearly his size. When he gains that weight and muscle he'll be a very powerful player on the ice. He's getting a lot of chances lately and creating more than he ever has. He just needs to work on getting stronger, being physical more consistently and finishing plays a little better, but again, he's only 20, he's not done developing as a player yet.

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03-14-2009, 03:13 PM
  #218
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Originally Posted by Letang58 View Post
Orpik and Staal could be moved to clear over eight million dollars.

That happens long before Crosby or Malkin is traded.

If either was dealt for a king's ransom, that would amount in time to a much bigger collective cap hit than is on either Crosby or Malkin.
Orpik and Staal are key defensive players for the Pens. They need depth and I don't see how they're gonna get it without trading one of the big 2.

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03-14-2009, 03:23 PM
  #219
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Orpik and Staal are key defensive players for the Pens. They need depth and I don't see how they're gonna get it without trading one of the big 2.
The Penguins have Maxime Talbot and Pascal Dupuis playing on the fourth line. They also have a guy who is leading all rookie defensemen in scoring playing in the AHL right now. I don't understand where this myth is coming from that they somehow need MORE depth.

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03-14-2009, 07:12 PM
  #220
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Originally Posted by SFKingshomer View Post
Orpik and Staal are key defensive players for the Pens. They need depth and I don't see how they're gonna get it without trading one of the big 2.
Our depth is fine. People need to stop with this myth that we have to trade Malkin or Crosby for depth. We don't.

1st line: Kunitz Crosby Guerin (These guys have played great together)
2nd line: Fed Malkin Sykora (Malkin and Sykora play great together)
3rd line: Kennedy Staal Cooke (This has been our best line most of this year)
4th line: Dupuis Talbot Adams (This is a very good 4th line in the NHL)

We have good top 6 forward prospects in Tangradi, Caputi, CPZ etc. for down the road.

Our D
Gonchar Orpik
Letang Eaton
Gill Scuderi

NHL ready prospect in Goligoski + Ben Lovejoy and Alex Grant on the way too.

That's good depth.

We can get Guerin or another winger at a decent rate to fill that hole.

We have a lot of solid young D-Men on the way to make up for potential UFA loses.

If we have a cap casualty it will not be Crosby or Malkin.

Staal &/or Gonchar would be more likely, but even that is unlikely in the near future.

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Old
03-15-2009, 10:43 AM
  #221
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He's a shooter. He likes to get into good position, take a pass, and rip it past the goalie. Unfortunately, that's not happening as much as he would like, this season.
Sounds like the perfect winger for Sid since he'd rather find the open guy than shoot it himself. Being out west you've probably seen your fair share of Chris Kunitz. How do you think a line of Kunitz - Crosby - Mueller would look?

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03-15-2009, 10:55 AM
  #222
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Originally Posted by SFKingshomer View Post
lol that must be it. Pens can't afford to ice a contender in a cap era with 2 players making 17 million. 27 million goes to 4 players so that leaves them with roughly 23 million to fill out the roster with cheap scrubs. 1 of the big 2 will be traded if the cap drops below 50 million. It's not a knock on the Pens, just harsh reality in a cap era.
A cap era that will only be around for two more years. The players are giving back salary this season and were bent over the table with this CBA... there is no possible way they accept another hard cap and no possible way the owners allow guaranteed contracts in the new CBA.

There is an extremely good chance the new CBA will be much different than this one, so only a fool would trade Malkin or Crosby.

...and last time I checked Shero wasn't a foolish GM.

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Old
03-15-2009, 12:13 PM
  #223
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The Penguins have Maxime Talbot and Pascal Dupuis playing on the fourth line. They also have a guy who is leading all rookie defensemen in scoring playing in the AHL right now. I don't understand where this myth is coming from that they somehow need MORE depth.
Not to mention one of the top plus/minus players in the AHL (D Lovejoy), one of the top scorers in the OHL (Tangradi), the top scorer in the WHL (Pierro-Zabotel), a red-hot scoring center in the QMJHL (Veilleux) and a pretty good rookie scorer in the AHL (Caputi).

I think we'll be ok moving forward.

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03-15-2009, 12:18 PM
  #224
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Originally Posted by Jag68Sid87 View Post
Not to mention one of the top plus/minus players in the AHL (D Lovejoy), one of the top scorers in the OHL (Tangradi), the top scorer in the WHL (Pierro-Zabotel), a red-hot scoring center in the QMJHL (Veilleux) and a pretty good rookie scorer in the AHL (Caputi).

I think we'll be ok moving forward.
. . . . . . We'll be fine. .haha Don't forget about Alex Grant either. .He's looking like a 4th round gem. .

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Old
03-15-2009, 12:36 PM
  #225
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Originally Posted by Jag68Sid87 View Post
Not to mention one of the top plus/minus players in the AHL (D Lovejoy), one of the top scorers in the OHL (Tangradi), the top scorer in the WHL (Pierro-Zabotel), a red-hot scoring center in the QMJHL (Veilleux) and a pretty good rookie scorer in the AHL (Caputi).

I think we'll be ok moving forward.
You forgot Janne Pesonen!$?! haha

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