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Something I can't understand about Carbo.....

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Old
03-06-2009, 11:14 AM
  #51
jcpenny
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Originally Posted by Gary320 View Post
Carbo's biggest problem is that he can't communicate.

Guillame Latendresse
Alex Kovalev
George Laraque
Steve Begin
Mathieu Dandenault
Alex Tanguay

Atleast once this year these guys have misunderstood what Carbo said to them, or Carbo didn't even talk to them.

When you can't communicate with your players, you'll have a HARDER time at getting them to understand you, to want to play for you as well. Last year, we were winning so it was much less important for Carbo to be a communicater.. the boys just did their things.

I don't want to see Carbo fired, because well he could very well be realy good.. but he needs to work on the little things, because that's the biggest problem.
I agree with that. Carbo should be a really good coach with time but our problem is that we have to live with the growing pains that comes with a young coach.

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03-06-2009, 11:20 AM
  #52
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Originally Posted by Newhabfan View Post
Blaming Carbo's communication skills is the "kewl" thing to do recently. I wonder if Bowman, Burns or others were better communicators.

A coach has few ways to communicate with his players - and words are on the last place on the list.

He communicates through:
- practices
- TOI and PP TOI
- line combinations.

Carbonneau does not have to justify himself to Bégin, Dandenault ou Laraque. You don't go explaining to a 4th liner why he is not playing. As Scotty Bowman said "he would not understand it anyway". You can't tell him "you're not playing cause you're not skating fast enough and you're scoring abilities are abysmal and you are a defensive liability and I have better (and younger) options".

If the player does not understand why he is benched - something is wrong with him.

As for Tanguay - I think that's a misunderstanding blown out of proportions by (you guessed) French media. They both said basically the same thing - that there is a general OK from the doctor and it was up to Tanguay's subjective feeling of being OK. Which makes sense. Alex wants to play as fast as possible (why wouldn't he) and Carbo needs him. It was sickening to see Villeneuve and his bunch jumping on this info and turning it into "news".
Bowman got in your face and told you what he felt. I've heard a few ex-players say that, even last night on RDS. He made Yvan Cournoyer cry. >_>

I don't many great coaches who didn't communciate to words.. The best coaches in sports are the toughest.. those who get in your face... tell you what you need to do straight up. Carbo doesn't seem like he can do that.. maybe he still has a player mentality.

It has nothing to do with kewl, when it's become said by so many people. He is not a good communciator, he even said it himself.

The thing about Begin and Laraque and Dandenault is that HE SHOULD tell them what's wrong tell them whats going on, why they will not be benched is it because you wanna try other players? WHY Shouldn't he? Screw that they are 4th liners they are still part of your team. You don't treat them differently. (Hell he knows that he plays his 4th line just as much as his 1st)

As for Tanguay, my point has nothing to do with the media, it's just that you could see the two had somewhat of a different answer, and you could see that what Carbo said to Tanguay wasnt clear for Alex.. it's not a big deal at all, but it just proves my point.. a good communication is good for your team.

I'm not saying it's the reason we are losing.. we are losing because these guys aren't performing all the time.. I'm saying, if he could improve that, he will be a better coach.

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Old
03-06-2009, 11:25 AM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Newhabfan View Post

If the player does not understand why he is benched - something is wrong with him.
It's not the guys that are benched I have a problem with...it's the guys that Carbonneau doesn't bench, Pleks should have sat out a game or two to wake him up....it took Gainey to bench Kovalev.

He just doesn't seem to be in control of this team....I might be wrong, but at least on the surface that's how it looks.

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03-06-2009, 11:33 AM
  #54
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Originally Posted by waffledave View Post
I'm sorry. You're right. I should take Jean Perron's words as gospel and instead ignore what Ryder, Samsonov, Rivet, Kovalev, Dandenault, Begin, Laraque, and others have said about Carbo being a piss poor communicator. Because those guys are just trying to make a names for themselves and Jean Perron is already very relevant today.

How could I be so naive!!!!???!?!?!?!!
Waffledave , i know that carbo isn't a good communicator . We all know that .

I put this picture because you just don't want to see the reality about the night life of Higgins, Price and SKostitsyn . You try to discredit this fact because Jean Perron is the one who talked about it for the first time . Perron isn't the only one who have talked about the 3 amigos .

It's funny to see your reaction about this story , when you are the one who pollued this forum during 2 years , with your accusations on Ribeiro , Dagenais and Theodore .

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Old
03-06-2009, 11:37 AM
  #55
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I agree with that. Carbo should be a really good coach with time but our problem is that we have to live with the growing pains that comes with a young coach.
Agreed, he's a young inexperienced coach and with that will be growing pains.

Personally I never understood the bashing Carbo gets, I mean I understand it and expect it cause it's the Habs board, but to me I guess I don't put much stock into the coach since he's not the one on the ice so he can only do so much.

To me, the problem is that this team is getting outworked far too often. I'm sure people will say that the coach needs to get them working and I agree to an extent, but we are talking about professional hockey players and most of them are grown men that shouldn't need to be told what to do or how to do it.

Why are we struggling after being one of the top teams in the league early in the season? Injuries, lack of effort are a good place to start. I'd rather point the finger at Kovalev, Pleks, Higgins, Price, Kostitsyn's. Our fowards production is crap, our PP was dreadful, we are looking at having a defensemen lead the team in scoring for the first time since what the '20's? look at how many forwards have less then 40 pts or 20 goals, brutal.

But hopefully it's more of an off year for the younger players, perhaps the pressure of the 100 years got to them, either way it's been a disaster of a year so far and while I expect to make the playoffs, I don't expect us to go far if this team continues to get outworked and can't score while Price can't seem to go a game without giving up 3 or more goals these days.

I'm very glad Gainey didn't give up our prospects for a quick fix cause there appears to be a deeper problem that I hope is addressed over the summer.

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03-06-2009, 11:38 AM
  #56
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Originally Posted by 100th View Post
Waffledave , i know that carbo isn't a good communicator . We all know that .

I put this picture because you just don't want to see the reality about the night life of Higgins, Price and SKostitsyn . You try to discredit this fact because Jean Perron is the one who talked about it for the first time . Perron isn't the only one who have talked about the 3 amigos .

It's funny to see your reaction about this story , when you are the one that pollued this forum during 2 years , with your accusations on Ribeiro , Dagenais and Theodore . Now that it isn't french players that are the actors , you blame the french medias to build that story
The difference is I saw Ribeiro and Theodore with my own eyes. I didn't see Higgins and company, and until they admit it, or there's proof, or I see it for myself, I'm not going to believe anything some washed up senile has-been is saying to become relevant again.

It has nothing to do with language, though it's pathetic how that's the first thing you go to. Always with the inferiority complex with you. For ****'s sake, my girlfriend is french-Canadian. How many times do I need to explain this to you before it finally sinks in?

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03-06-2009, 11:46 AM
  #57
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Originally Posted by montreal View Post
Agreed, he's a young inexperienced coach and with that will be growing pains.

Personally I never understood the bashing Carbo gets, I mean I understand it and expect it cause it's the Habs board, but to me I guess I don't put much stock into the coach since he's not the one on the ice so he can only do so much.

To me, the problem is that this team is getting outworked far too often. I'm sure people will say that the coach needs to get them working and I agree to an extent, but we are talking about professional hockey players and most of them are grown men that shouldn't need to be told what to do or how to do it.

Why are we struggling after being one of the top teams in the league early in the season? Injuries, lack of effort are a good place to start. I'd rather point the finger at Kovalev, Pleks, Higgins, Price, Kostitsyn's. Our fowards production is crap, our PP was dreadful, we are looking at having a defensemen lead the team in scoring for the first time since what the '20's? look at how many forwards have less then 40 pts or 20 goals, brutal.

But hopefully it's more of an off year for the younger players, ....
Very well said. I really don't believe that Carbo is to fault this season. I have always believed that it is ultimately up to the players to pick up their game. Sure, a coach can pull them aside and say "pick it up", but in the end, it is up to the player.

Carbo, im sure, is just as frustrated as everyone else. Any team will struggle when their top 2-3 forwards aren't producing, and 2 out of their top 3 D-men are having horrible years. When players get on the ice and make stupid, mental mistakes it is their fault, not the coaches. They are the ones on the ice.

Sure Carbo has made some mistakes, as every coach in the league has. At the end of the day though, if your players get out there and make stupid plays and dont work hard, that is their fault. They are in the NHL, they are big boys. No matter who their linemates are, it is their responsibility to go out and make things work on the ice.

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03-06-2009, 11:48 AM
  #58
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I'd rather point the finger at Kovalev, Pleks, Higgins, Price, Kostitsyn's. Our fowards production is crap, our PP was dreadful, we are looking at having a defensemen lead the team in scoring for the first time since what the '20's? look at how many forwards have less then 40 pts or 20 goals, brutal.
I absolutely agree that certain players need to take the blame as well. I'm not pining this all on Carbo, but I do think he's the crux of the issue. I don't think this would be happening with a different, more experienced coach behind the bench, simply because most coaches have had to deal with situations like this and know how to get out of it.

Kovalev, I agree needs to take some of the blame. I don't think Pleks really does, because he at least has a solid effort level, and has all year. I think Pleks is the kind of player who is going to be streaky all his career. Last year he was great all year, but the year before we saw the same thing we're seeing now...He busts his butt but nothing happens, and then all of a sudden he goes on fire.

Higgins, honestly, I don't even know what to think anymore. The guy was one of my favorite players but he's NEVER been the same since he hurt his ankle vs New Jersey all those years ago. He's had a rash of injuries and it's impossible to get a solid gauge of his play over one season because he can't seem to play without some major injury hitting him. I don't think he's lazy or lacks effort, but I do think his development has been seriously hampered by injuries.

Price, I'm not ready to blame as much. The guy has an ankle injury and I'm positive, looking at his lateral movement, that it isn't fully healed yet. It took me 3 years to rehab my ankle when I had a high ankle sprain...I'm not expecting Price to be 100% after just 2 months. Couple that with the team playing awful in front of him...His confidence must be at an all time low.

Of course, these aren't meant to be excuses, because these guys DO deserve to take some of the blame...But I still think Carbo is supposed to find solutions and as of yet, he has been unable to do so.

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03-06-2009, 11:51 AM
  #59
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And he is just completely botching Andrei Kostitsyn.
agreed.

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03-06-2009, 12:02 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by waffledave View Post
I absolutely agree that certain players need to take the blame as well. I'm not pining this all on Carbo, but I do think he's the crux of the issue. I don't think this would be happening with a different, more experienced coach behind the bench, simply because most coaches have had to deal with situations like this and know how to get out of it.

Kovalev, I agree needs to take some of the blame. I don't think Pleks really does, because he at least has a solid effort level, and has all year. I think Pleks is the kind of player who is going to be streaky all his career. Last year he was great all year, but the year before we saw the same thing we're seeing now...He busts his butt but nothing happens, and then all of a sudden he goes on fire.

Higgins, honestly, I don't even know what to think anymore. The guy was one of my favorite players but he's NEVER been the same since he hurt his ankle vs New Jersey all those years ago. He's had a rash of injuries and it's impossible to get a solid gauge of his play over one season because he can't seem to play without some major injury hitting him. I don't think he's lazy or lacks effort, but I do think his development has been seriously hampered by injuries.

Price, I'm not ready to blame as much. The guy has an ankle injury and I'm positive, looking at his lateral movement, that it isn't fully healed yet. It took me 3 years to rehab my ankle when I had a high ankle sprain...I'm not expecting Price to be 100% after just 2 months. Couple that with the team playing awful in front of him...His confidence must be at an all time low.

Of course, these aren't meant to be excuses, because these guys DO deserve to take some of the blame...But I still think Carbo is supposed to find solutions and as of yet, he has been unable to do so.
Perhaps, that seems logical since a young and inexperienced coach might not know how to handle the situation as experience is a great teacher imo. I refuse to put most of the blame on him though, the players are getting out worked a lot and that's unexceptable, I chose to blame the guys that are being outworked, not the one behind the bench personally.

Kovalev for sure as his production has dropped like a rock. Funny how his production dropped off two years ago as well, maybe that means he will have a big season next year!

Pleks gets a lot of blame too, yea he's working hard all season but he's our 1st line center, if not for his recent play, his numbers would be crap, but on top of that he was playing way too soft.

Higgins also works hard, injuries have likely had a big effect as it's likely been hard for him to find his grove but he's got to produce more no matter what. I still think he will be a solid nhler just that this year has not gone well for him.

Price I agree on the injury, in no way shape or form am I ready to give on up him. I still see him as the Habs future cup hopes, to me it starts with Price and ends with Price, not now as he's inexperienced but for me, I look forward more to the future when guys like Price (21), Pacioretty (20) and Subban (19) among others are hitting their prime say 5-6 years down the road. I think Price is going to be great, if not I am scared for our future.

I think the Habs best asset though is Timmins and Gainey, so I'm hoping that whatever off ice issuse that are rumored to be going on (if true) it gets fixed over the summer cause I can't take another year of this media crap!

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03-06-2009, 12:03 PM
  #61
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Well that depends....
  • Do you think sitting out team veterens on a consistant basis (when they are playing well even) is a great idea?
  • Do you think a good coach does that consistantly without even speaking to the player or explaining why?
  • Do you think playing snipers on the 4th line is a good strategic move?
  • Do you think playing defensemen on the 1st line is a good tactical decision?
  • Do you think sending out 4th line grinders to take an important face off in the other team's end, with 30 seconds to go, while one goal down is a good idea?
  • Do you think not calling a timeout while taking a faceoff in the other teams end, while a goal down, is a good move?
  • Do you think leaving a young goalie with a fragile psyche in goal to be scored on for 5 goals, 6 goals, 7 goals and 5 goals on respective nights will help him play with greater confidence?
  • Do you think blasting your best and hardest working players in the open media on a NIGHTLY basis is going to help bond the team to you?
  • Do you think having a policy of not speaking to your own players is a good way to open the lines of communication?
If that's your idea of a great coach then yeah I guess he's alright, because he's done all of the above on a consistant basis.

Fact is no one is saying that everything is his fault, and he does have a system in place. He's just not a very good coach is all. He does not treat his veterans with respect, he doesn't really know how to make proper lines. He's not much of a tactician, and he's got an inexplicable aversion to communicating with his players for some reason.


Frankly I don't care what the results are, I mean if we'd be 1st in the league we'd all be scratching our heads wondering why it works, and shut up about our complaints. People HATED Scotty Bowman for example but his head games and antics produced results. With Carbonneau, what he's doing is not producing results, so the things he's doing people think are just flat out stupid are going to be talked about.
qft

Every former coach in the French media, some even last year (especially Gérard Gagnon), have been shocked by some of the decisions taken by Carbo related to play on the ice. Let's take for example breakouts, a favorite topic of conversation of Jean Perron. We went from being the best passing team in the East last season to one of the worst. Teams have adjusted to our unique style. Our breakouts have become an abomination. The system needs to be changed.

Komisarek used to have a great first pass but now has lost all confidence, and I blame Carbo for that. I believe the reason why a guy such as Ryan O'Byrne is not a NHL regular yet is because he's putting his defensemen in a position to fail. Opposing teams are forcing our best passing defenseman to pass to the other, and then they trap em (ie Markov to Komisarek, Hamrlik to O'byrne). We fall for it every time... It wouldn't be a problem if our forwards were not so far up the ice, but unfortunately it is by design. We end up losing puck possession, as a result we have to play more time on defense compared to last season.

He needs to favor a more traditional breakout system so that we could gain some speed through the neutral zone. Our defense would look better, we would be less prone to turnovers, and we could use our greatest asset, which is our speed, as Mathieu Schneider so eloquently put it post-game 2 or 3 games after he was traded over here.

Wake up Carbo!

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03-06-2009, 12:12 PM
  #62
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Just can't believe what had happened with Tanguay yesterday...Carbo implying as if Tanguay was the one taking himself out of the lineup, Tanguay saying he's just respecting what the doctors said...

From what Tanguay already said about his icetime earlier in the year, if anybody is still wondering if Tanguay will be back next year....
I missed this, so Tanguay is not going to be ready this weekend? That sucks. Does anyone have a link for these coments.

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Komisarek used to have a great first pass but now has lost all confidence, and I blame Carbo for that. I believe the reason why a guy such as Ryan O'Byrne is not a NHL regular yet is because he's putting his defensemen in a position to fail. Opposing teams are forcing our best passing defenseman to pass to the other, and then they trap em (ie Markov to Komisarek, Hamrlik to O'byrne). We fall for it every time... It wouldn't be a problem if our forwards were not so far up the ice, but unfortunately it is by design. We end up losing puck possession, as a result we have to play more time on defense compared to last season.

He needs to favor a more traditional breakout system so that we could gain some speed through the neutral zone. Our defense would look better, we would be less prone to turnovers, and we could use our greatest asset, which is our speed, as Mathieu Schneider so eloquently put it post-game 2 or 3 games after he was traded over here.
One complaint I have with Gainey is not addressing the need for a puck mover over the summer. Komisarek to me does not have a great first pass, it's been ok in the past but I don't view anyone outside of Markov as being a great passer, with Hammer being decent. Now Gainey did address it when he got Schneider but we need more puck movers on the blueline. Hopefully Weber/Subban can work they way into the lineup over the next 2 years (not counting this year of course) as the passing game from our defense is below average imo.

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And he is just completely botching Andrei Kostitsyn.
That's a tough one for me. I hate seeing him at LW, I really liked the Kostitsyn Lang Kostitsyn line though. Too bad for Langer as he seemd to work well with them. I wanted to see that line with a Higgins Pleks Pacioretty line as the 3rd line but so much for that.

But as a huge Kostitsyn fan, the kid has got to work harder and pick up the intensity at times. Too often he's not skating hard enough imo, and for Carbo, he appears to be the kind of coach that wants to reward guys that work hard, which I am all for. (Lever does this in Hamilton, which is why he seems to love Chipchura/Stewart etc.. and would blast guys like Locke/Trotter etc.. in the media)


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03-06-2009, 12:33 PM
  #63
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The difference is I saw Ribeiro and Theodore with my own eyes. I didn't see Higgins and company, and until they admit it, or there's proof, or I see it for myself, I'm not going to believe anything some washed up senile has-been is saying to become relevant again.

It has nothing to do with language, though it's pathetic how that's the first thing you go to. Always with the inferiority complex with you. For ****'s sake, my girlfriend is french-Canadian. How many times do I need to explain this to you before it finally sinks in?
It as to do with language and your thinking your some kind of god or something. You saw theodore and Ribiero, fine, Ribiero doesn't drink by the way, so i wonder what kind of party he could have been doing. But because you didn't see Higgins and Price, it can't be true?

you are really getting on my nerve Dave... You have a french girlfriend so what, i have a couple of asian friend, that means i cannot be racist toward asians? i got a jewish buddy, that means i love all jews? stop trying to make yourself superior than you are, it's getting annoying...

On topic, the biggest mistakes with Carbo is the same the habs made with Price, they should have gotten an experience veteran on his side. Nothing against Doug Jarvis and Kirk Muller, but a more experience ass-coach with NHL experience could have help greatly.

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03-06-2009, 12:33 PM
  #64
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Perhaps, that seems logical since a young and inexperienced coach might not know how to handle the situation as experience is a great teacher imo. I refuse to put most of the blame on him though, the players are getting out worked a lot and that's unexceptable, I chose to blame the guys that are being outworked, not the one behind the bench personally.

Kovalev for sure as his production has dropped like a rock. Funny how his production dropped off two years ago as well, maybe that means he will have a big season next year!

Pleks gets a lot of blame too, yea he's working hard all season but he's our 1st line center, if not for his recent play, his numbers would be crap, but on top of that he was playing way too soft.

Higgins also works hard, injuries have likely had a big effect as it's likely been hard for him to find his grove but he's got to produce more no matter what. I still think he will be a solid nhler just that this year has not gone well for him.

Price I agree on the injury, in no way shape or form am I ready to give on up him. I still see him as the Habs future cup hopes, to me it starts with Price and ends with Price, not now as he's inexperienced but for me, I look forward more to the future when guys like Price (21), Pacioretty (20) and Subban (19) among others are hitting their prime say 5-6 years down the road. I think Price is going to be great, if not I am scared for our future.

I think the Habs best asset though is Timmins and Gainey, so I'm hoping that whatever off ice issuse that are rumored to be going on (if true) it gets fixed over the summer cause I can't take another year of this media crap!
Carbo is doing everything he can to make this team successful. Sure i dont like his system and sometimes the way he evaluates his players but its way more than that. This team lacks mental toughness. They seem to be fragile and they dont always react well to adversity. Is this the coach's fault? Maybe a little who has to give an identity to to his team but man, these guys crumble after the smalest challenges in a game. They are young, so its to be expected.

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03-06-2009, 12:49 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by HABsurde View Post
a more experience ass-coach with NHL experience could have help greatly.
Worth a try I guess.

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03-06-2009, 12:59 PM
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Originally Posted by waffledave View Post
Actually, it's quite easy to put this on Carbo's shoulders seeing as it was HIS idea to put Tanguay at the point.

And your second paragraph there is LOLZ
1. You are the coach. Do you leave an empty spot or let Brisebois/Dandenault/Komisarek/name it play there? Just to show you that the one to blame isn't the coach, and you know it.

2. Laft if you want, but I don't find it funny to read accusations of racisms on these boards. Always a way to see Quebecois has bad people... it can be understood from someone living in Ontario, but from a Montrealer, I really don't understand it.

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03-06-2009, 01:14 PM
  #67
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.... but a more experience ass-coach with NHL experience could have help greatly.
It's tempting to make a joke here but I'll restrain myself for decency reasons .

To the 95% of this board that wants AKost out of the ATAK line....Did it ever occured to you that it is maybe AKost himself that wants to play with Kovalev and Plekanec ? That he wants to play on the same line he had a career year last year ? That he wants to play with the only attacker that he can communicate with (we all know how his English is) ?

When Kovalev came back it was said that both Plekanec and AKosted wanted him back in their line.

It's probable that in NHL09 AKost would do better out of that line - but they are human beings and not pixelated sprites.

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03-06-2009, 01:18 PM
  #68
Whitesnake
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Originally Posted by montreal View Post
I missed this, so Tanguay is not going to be ready this weekend? That sucks. Does anyone have a link for these coments.
Not what I said. Carbonneau made a comment yesterday when he was asked if Tanguay was coming back. To which he responded as if it was Tanguay's decision now. To which Tanguay responded that it wasn't up to him but to the doctor that asked Tanguay to tell him how he felt on Friday morning and that if he felt good enough, he'd give him the OK.

Was just a comment about Carbonneau thinking that Tanguay was holding up, and Tanguay saying that he was just following the doctor's order. He's back in tonight probably after saying to the doctor that his shoulder felt fine today.

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03-06-2009, 01:21 PM
  #69
LouisJCloutier
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I can see that the Carbonneau's bashing is more popular then I taught !

On the thing that he's been blamed for, I agree on those point:

1- He's using is third and fourth line too much at certain times. When you're down by one or 2 goal and there's less then 10 minutes in the game, don't go with your fourth liner ! Carbo need to show confidence in his talented player.

2- Stop trying to put Kostitsyn with Kovy....it doesn't work anymore.

3- The coaching staff need to do something with the defense. It was juts too ugly agaisn't Atlanta. Put Dandy back there, get Komi and Markov back together. Just do something ! Hamrlik - Komi are killing us...

But how can you blame Carbonneau for everything else ? Kovy is a total mess and I think that he's playing again the same way he's been playing for most of the season: lazy. Plekanec was the softest player in the league for 40+ games. Kostitsyn use the Kovy way, 3-4 great game and then dissapear completly. Komisarek is the just the shadow of himself since his injury.

And some of the player that were playing solid hockey for us were all injured: Lang, Tender, Tanguay, Koivu. There's consequence to that ! How can a coaching staff keep some stable lines when there's so much injured player ? How can you build a chemistry ?

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03-06-2009, 01:28 PM
  #70
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Originally Posted by montreal View Post
Agreed, he's a young inexperienced coach and with that will be growing pains.

Personally I never understood the bashing Carbo gets, I mean I understand it and expect it cause it's the Habs board, but to me I guess I don't put much stock into the coach since he's not the one on the ice so he can only do so much.

To me, the problem is that this team is getting outworked far too often. I'm sure people will say that the coach needs to get them working and I agree to an extent, but we are talking about professional hockey players and most of them are grown men that shouldn't need to be told what to do or how to do it.

Why are we struggling after being one of the top teams in the league early in the season? Injuries, lack of effort are a good place to start. I'd rather point the finger at Kovalev, Pleks, Higgins, Price, Kostitsyn's. Our fowards production is crap, our PP was dreadful, we are looking at having a defensemen lead the team in scoring for the first time since what the '20's? look at how many forwards have less then 40 pts or 20 goals, brutal.

But hopefully it's more of an off year for the younger players, perhaps the pressure of the 100 years got to them, either way it's been a disaster of a year so far and while I expect to make the playoffs, I don't expect us to go far if this team continues to get outworked and can't score while Price can't seem to go a game without giving up 3 or more goals these days.

I'm very glad Gainey didn't give up our prospects for a quick fix cause there appears to be a deeper problem that I hope is addressed over the summer.
Just as Carbonneau is an inexperienced and young coach. This team is largely inexperienced and young. It was detrimental in the first place to implicate and new coach, young coach with a young team. These young players can't afford to be misused, have their development played with and screwed with because we have to wait for Carbonneau's growing pains to cease. We need an experienced coach. One with a track record with young players. I hate seeing a PPG Kostitsyn being placed into roles he can't succeed in. I hate seeing Price lose his confidence because the team isn't competing in front of him and because Carbonneau doesn't communicate to him and then says all the wrong things in front of the media.

It's a serious recipe for disaster. Gainey and the higher staff is as much to blame as is Carbonneau. They definitely overlooked who troublesome that is.

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03-06-2009, 01:40 PM
  #71
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[QUOTE=waffledave;18380119]The team won last year despite Carbo.

This year, well, there's only so much you can do.

So when they win he get's none of the credit and when they lose he get's all of the blame . The truth is the onus is on the player's and a lot of them have have been on a slippery downward slope since Dec. - Jan.

Price has been awful since returning from the IL , Komisarek , Hamrlik and Gorges seem to have forgotten how to play defence , Markov always seems to be looking for the perfect play/pass thats highlight reel when it works 1% of the time and just frustrating the other 99% , Higgins can't put the puck in the ocean , Koivu has been less than stellar , Kostitsyn is the invisible man and until recently Plekanec wasn't much better which led to Kovalev playing like he had to do everything on his line and we all know the result when Alex plays like that .

If it wasn't for the recent play of Plekanec , Kovalev , Schneider , Halak , the rookies and our hard working pluggers this team would be in contention for a lottery pick this summer , but yeah , let's take the easy route and blame it all on the coach because he can't get a bunch of multi-millionaire's to show up for work .


Last edited by habsfan44: 03-06-2009 at 01:50 PM.
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03-06-2009, 01:55 PM
  #72
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[QUOTE=habsfan44;18383393]
Quote:
Originally Posted by waffledave View Post
The team won last year despite Carbo.

This year, well, there's only so much you can do.

So when they win he get's none of the credit and when they lose he get's all of the blame . The truth is the onus is on the player's and a lot of them have have been on a slippery downward slope since Dec. - Jan.

Price has been awful since returning from the IL , Komisarek , Hamrlik and Gorges seem to have forgotten how to play defence , Markov always seems to be looking for the perfect play/pass thats highlight reel when it works 1% of the time and just frustrating the other 99% , Higgins can't put the puck in the ocean , Koivu has been less than stellar , Kostitsyn is the invisible man and until recently Plekanec wasn't much better which led to Kovalev playing like he had to do everything on his line and we all know the result when Alex plays like that .

If it wasn't for the recent play of Plekanec , Kovalev , Schneider , Halak , the rookies and our hard working pluggers this team would be in contention for a lottery pick this summer , but yeah , let's take the easy route and blame it all on the coach because he can't get a bunch of multi-millionaire's to show up for work .
The problem is not that a few players are underachieving, its that the entire team is. Look at the game in Buffalo, we were all over them until they scored the first goal, after that the entire team fell apart. A decent coach shouldn't let that happen.

It's not a matter of not working hard enough when your entire team's confidence hangs by a hair and your coach can't do anything to make it better.

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03-06-2009, 01:56 PM
  #73
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I know that as far as being patient, I would give all the patience in the world to coaches, real coaches that paid their dues in Junior, in the AHL and then in the bigs. Or even if you go from Juniors to the bigs (see DeBoer).

But who really knows if Carbo can coach? Was Tremblay a good coach 'cause he won those cups, worked hard and was breathing CH? Carbonneau was an assistant-coach and never had to take the reigns of a team. Sure then people will say he almonst won the Adams trophy, who the **** cares...how many coaches have been fired the year after being in nomination or even winning it? And how many coaches do well in their first year compared to the years after?

What if he'd be a good GM or assistant GM only? 'Cause he's not that much of players coach with no notions of communication whatsoever and you can't say he's that technical either. And then, he doesn't recognize the real help he needs being surrounded by guys who doesn't seem to help that much right now. And then the numerous "I have no idea what's going on" after the games, or the famous "They need to work harder"....and you've got yourself a guy who might be great at doing it, might be less great at teaching it....

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03-06-2009, 02:23 PM
  #74
Boulette Cannon
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Originally Posted by TheCH View Post
His whole system is completely wrong for the type of players he has.

And he is just completely botching Andrei Kostitsyn.
Was he "botching" AK last year also?

Its up to the players to work and show the coach they can be dominant, not the other way around.

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03-06-2009, 02:36 PM
  #75
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[QUOTE=Brisk-Illusion;18383652]
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Originally Posted by habsfan44 View Post

The problem is not that a few players are underachieving, its that the entire team is. Look at the game in Buffalo, we were all over them until they scored the first goal, after that the entire team fell apart. A decent coach shouldn't let that happen.

It's not a matter of not working hard enough when your entire team's confidence hangs by a hair and your coach can't do anything to make it better.
Agree.

This is a very fragile team - mentally and physically.

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