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Predict John Mitchell's potential

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Old
03-06-2009, 07:28 PM
  #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MadarameIkakku83 View Post
i think he will be a jason arnott type of centre.. a good second line centre who will sign for less... the guy has some seriuos skill and he is already the best centre on this team and he still has more to give, the future is bright for him

go mithcell !!!!!
Did you honestly just compare John Mitchell to Jason Arnott?

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03-06-2009, 07:32 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by zeke View Post
...is what he is this year in his rookie season.
Yup,

I think Mitchell can be a 60 point, 2nd line Center for us within the next couple of years.

Play him with Blake and Stemps and i think that line could be our best.

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03-06-2009, 07:36 PM
  #78
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3rd liner. I think he is going to be a very streaky player also, but seems to be someone who can play all situations so he is still a very valuable player in the long run.

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03-06-2009, 07:39 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by sgupca View Post
Yup,

I think Mitchell can be a 60 point, 2nd line Center for us within the next couple of years.

Play him with Blake and Stemps and i think that line could be our best.
I think you over rating him. His skills aren't top 6.

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03-06-2009, 08:02 PM
  #80
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3rd line, fill in top 6 when needed, 35 points.

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03-06-2009, 08:23 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by MSP4LYFE View Post
Did you honestly just compare John Mitchell to Jason Arnott?
yea, 3-4 years down the road

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Old
03-06-2009, 08:24 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by leafsfanatic16 View Post
3rd line, fill in top 6 when needed, 35 points.
He's on pace for 30 points this year as a rookie so saying that 35 points is his "potential" is definitely understating his abilities.

He's got a very high level of talent. His biggest weakness, as it always has been, is his consistency. That applies to both his offensive and defensive game.

I've always liked John Mitchell but unless he straightens that out, I don't see him being anything more than an average 3rd line player.

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03-06-2009, 08:59 PM
  #83
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3rd-line center... Just not skilled enough to play in the top 6.

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03-06-2009, 09:01 PM
  #84
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He'll be a solid third line center who can also play on the PK unit. He could fill in as 2nd line center if injuries arise

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03-06-2009, 09:06 PM
  #85
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The biggest question for Mitchell is does he qualify for Burke's Hard Hat guys. If he is a top 6 forward we are going to be in for a long rebuild. People saying top 6 forward are way over rating his game. Mitchell will need to thrive in other areas to remain in the NHL.

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03-06-2009, 10:15 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by ULF_55 View Post
I'd be interested to see what the Leafs record is when they get .900 save percentage.

Yes, I know all teams have blow-outs, but when your starter has a .885, which is around where Toskala was until his recent hot spell, I'm not sure many teams not named Detroit will win.
A poster friend on another board (which you're invited to, btw, Ulf - not so many krazy kids over there, with more reasonable and informative discussion) has been keeping track of this all season....I'll steal from him.....

Over 900: 20-3-7 (128 pt pace)
Under 900: 6-23-6 (42 pt pace)

Above 920: 14-2-4 (131 pt pace)
910-919: 1-1-1 (82 pt pace)
900-909: 5-0-2 (141 pt pace)
890-899: 0-2-1 (28 pt pace)
Below 889: 6-21-5 (44 pt pace)

It's really quite remarkable. If we get even .890 save percentage from our goalies, we're 20-5-8 (119 pt pace).

When you pair that with the fact that everyone realizes that Toskala has played significantly better after sitting out those two games (and Gerber continued that strong play last night)...and that we're undefeated since Toskala turned it around....not sure we have any choice but to make a simple conclusion - this team is pretty good.


Last edited by zeke: 03-06-2009 at 10:26 PM.
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Old
03-06-2009, 10:25 PM
  #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zeke View Post
A poster friend on another board (which you're invited to, btw, Ulf - not so many krazy kids over there, with more reasonable and informative discussion) has been keeping track of this all season....I'll steal from him.....

Over 900: 20-3-7 (128 pt pace)
Under 900: 6-23-6 (42 pt pace)

Above 920: 14-2-4 (131 pt pace)
910-919: 1-1-1 (82 pt pace)
900-909: 5-0-2 (141 pt pace)
890-899: 0-2-1 (28 pt pace)
Below 889: 6-21-5 (44 pt pace)

It's really quite remarkable.

When you pair that with the fact that everyone realizes that Toskala has played significantly better after sitting out those two games (and Gerber continued that strong play last night)...and that we're undefeated since Toskala turned it around....not sure we have any choice but to make a simple conclusion - this team is pretty good.
Those are some telling statistics.

We can score goals, and our D is overall pretty good. Much better than previous seasons. There's only one thing left, not including special teams(PK was terrible, but that could also be a direct result of poor goaltending.

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03-06-2009, 10:30 PM
  #88
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ceiling 50 point guy at max. But is bigger, faster and has a better overall game than Stajan at that 3rd line spot.

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03-06-2009, 10:30 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by Newfie John View Post
(PK was terrible, but that could also be a direct result of poor goaltending.
For what it's worth, since Toskala came back with his improved play (which Gerber continued last night), the Leafs' PK has been humming at an 89% clip, without giving up more than 1 PK goal in any one game.

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03-06-2009, 11:19 PM
  #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zeke View Post
A poster friend on another board (which you're invited to, btw, Ulf - not so many krazy kids over there, with more reasonable and informative discussion) has been keeping track of this all season....I'll steal from him.....

Over 900: 20-3-7 (128 pt pace)
Under 900: 6-23-6 (42 pt pace)

Above 920: 14-2-4 (131 pt pace)
910-919: 1-1-1 (82 pt pace)
900-909: 5-0-2 (141 pt pace)
890-899: 0-2-1 (28 pt pace)
Below 889: 6-21-5 (44 pt pace)

It's really quite remarkable. If we get even .890 save percentage from our goalies, we're 20-5-8 (119 pt pace).

When you pair that with the fact that everyone realizes that Toskala has played significantly better after sitting out those two games (and Gerber continued that strong play last night)...and that we're undefeated since Toskala turned it around....not sure we have any choice but to make a simple conclusion - this team is pretty good.
Are you suggesting that with above .900 goaltending that we are a 100 point club?

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03-06-2009, 11:23 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by MSP4LYFE View Post
Are you suggesting that with above .900 goaltending that we are a 100 point club?
I'm not suggesting anything, I'm just listing the facts.

Obviously, you feel that that's what the facts suggest.

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03-06-2009, 11:33 PM
  #92
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Burke has found his 2nd line centre already in the house. At 17-20 minutes a night, the kid has the potential for 20-30 goals a season. 50-60 points.

He's big, mobile, good vision and shot. You notice him out there every shift now.

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03-06-2009, 11:38 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by Raptactics29 View Post
Shawn Horcoff at best

shawn horcoff is a good nhler... in fact he can compliment a first liner.... so.... thats damn good

i dunno if he has that in him, but i want to see what he can do.

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03-06-2009, 11:39 PM
  #94
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Originally Posted by zeke View Post
I'm not suggesting anything, I'm just listing the facts.

Obviously, you feel that that's what the facts suggest.
No. I feel thats what you are suggesting, hence the question "Are you suggesting that with above .900 goaltending that we are a 100 point club?"

Anyways, those stats are very misleading imo as the team as a whole has played much better recently then the rest of the season, especially defensively, hence the inflated stats. Contrary to popular belief, Toskala is not a bad goalie, on many a nights he was left out to dry hence his poor save percentage and GAA (which are well below his career averages). I personally believe the numbers you presented are more dependant on the teams defence that night, as opposed to the goalies individual performance. And by no means do I think this team is any better (at best) then a 7th place squad, even with above .900 goaltending. We just aren't good enough.

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03-07-2009, 12:01 AM
  #95
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Originally Posted by MSP4LYFE View Post
No. I feel thats what you are suggesting, hence the question "Are you suggesting that with above .900 goaltending that we are a 100 point club?"
I am suggesting that with good goaltending, this team is pretty damn good - or at least it was before we moved Nik and Moore.

Quote:
Anyways, those stats are very misleading imo as the team as a whole has played much better recently then the rest of the season, especially defensively, hence the inflated stats.
Nonono - you can't do that.

This has been all year long that the numbers have shown the same thing. I can show you the history of it if you'd like. My friend has kept it updated all year long.

There's nothing misleading about that in regards to any recent streak.

And anyways, I'd say we've actually been worse defensively the last couple of weeks - but our goaltending, ever since Toskala took those games off, has been dramatically, dramatically better - and that's something that everyone has noticed, not just those looking at the numbers.


Quote:
Contrary to popular belief, Toskala is not a bad goalie,
Toskala is not an awful goalie - but he did play downright awful the entire year before the last couple of weeks, and both his GMs and his coach called him out for it.

He stank it up - evidently, because of injury.


Quote:
on many a nights he was left out to dry hence his poor save percentage and GAA (which are well below his career averages). I personally believe the numbers you presented are more dependant on the teams defence that night, as opposed to the goalies individual performance.
I know that's what you want to believe - but save percentage doesn't really depend much on the defense.

Toskala has been godawful this year - and everyone realizes it.

Just like they realize that he's played tremendous the last couple weeks after taking those couple of games off - and no, it wasn't because the leafs improved defensively. They've actually regressed a bit in that deparment lately.

Quote:
And by no means do I think this team is any better (at best) then a 7th place squad, even with above .900 goaltending. We just aren't good enough.
You also don't want to believe that this team could possibly be a top-10 scoring team in the league.

But hey, they are.

At some point, we'll realize that our players are better than what we give them credit for - and they've looked much worse the past couple of years because of some horrible goaltending, and some horrible coaching.

But Ron Wilson is a great coach - we shouldn't be surprised when these players look much better under his guidance. This is what he does.

And now, finally, he's getting some quality goaltending as well - and the Leafs are looking damn, damn hard to beat.

They won't be able to keep up this kind of pace, of course....the trades of Nik and Moore will end up hurting us too much up front (mostly Nik - Mitchell should sub in nicely for Moore, but nobody other than maybe Tlusty could possibly sub in for Nik), and I doubt Gerber can keep up that kind of play the rest of the year....but this team is better than it's looked this year.....even though they were already looking better than most people thought they would.

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03-07-2009, 12:28 AM
  #96
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Originally Posted by zeke View Post
I am suggesting that with good goaltending, this team is pretty damn good - or at least it was before we moved Nik and Moore.
Well that depends on your definition of "damn good team", if it is 7-11, perhaps, but if it is 6 and above I must disagree, I could be wrong but I dont see it at all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by zeke View Post
Nonono - you can't do that.

This has been all year long that the numbers have shown the same thing. I can show you the history of it if you'd like. My friend has kept it updated all year long.

There's nothing misleading about that in regards to any recent streak.

And anyways, I'd say we've actually been worse defensively the last couple of weeks - but our goaltending, ever since Toskala took those games off, has been dramatically, dramatically better - and that's something that everyone has noticed, not just those looking at the numbers.
Fair enough with regards to the consistency of the stats, but I disagree that this team has been worse defensively. Defense has been a huge issue this year imo, from the forwards not backchecking hard enough, to our defenseman letting opposing forwards walk by them, to missing assignments entirely. However, this past month I have noticed a great improvement in the defensive zone, especially with regards to keeping the opposition to the outside and altering the shots of opposing forwards, but of course this is up to interpreatation.


Quote:
Originally Posted by zeke View Post
Toskala is not an awful goalie - but he did play downright awful the entire year before the last couple of weeks, and both his GMs and his coach called him out for it.

He stank it up - evidently, because of injury.
Fair enough


Quote:
Originally Posted by zeke View Post
I know that's what you want to believe - but save percentage doesn't really depend much on the defense.

Toskala has been godawful this year - and everyone realizes it.
Just like they realize that he's played tremendous the last couple weeks after taking those couple of games off - and no, it wasn't because the leafs improved defensively. They've actually regressed a bit in that deparment lately.
Dont misunderstand me, I dont think Vesa has benn his best this season either, and at times has been just plain awful, but as I have argued before, alot of that (imo) is due to the fact that we played poor defense for much of the season.

Quote:
Originally Posted by zeke View Post
You also don't want to believe that this team could possibly be a top-10 scoring team in the league.

But hey, they are.
Individually, they are all, for the most part, average to below average players, but for some reason unbeknownst to me they continually pile up points as a unit, maybe its our mobile D, shoot and attack the net mentality, or even RW, I dont know, but it doesnt change the fact that the talent on this team is severly lacking, or that Poni and Stajan are top 6 forwards...

Quote:
Originally Posted by zeke View Post
At some point, we'll realize that our players are better than what we give them credit for - and they've looked much worse the past couple of years because of some horrible goaltending, and some horrible coaching.

But Ron Wilson is a great coach - we shouldn't be surprised when these players look much better under his guidance. This is what he does.

And now, finally, he's getting some quality goaltending as well - and the Leafs are looking damn, damn hard to beat.

They won't be able to keep up this kind of pace, of course....the trades of Nik and Moore will end up hurting us too much up front (mostly Nik - Mitchell should sub in nicely for Moore, but nobody other than maybe Tlusty could possibly sub in for Nik), and I doubt Gerber can keep up that kind of play the rest of the year....but this team is better than it's looked this year.....even though they were already looking better than most people thought they would.
They haven't done it in 3 years, why expect them to do it now? And not to point the finger or be overly critical, but is does seem as if every year there is an excuse associated with the franchise so as to explain there failures, rather then look at the big picture. Since the lockout I have heard everything from; coaching, lack of an elite winger for Sundin, defensive depth and now goaltending. At some point you need to except that this isnt a championship calibre team, and apparently its not a playoff calibre team either, but anyway thats just my two cents.

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03-07-2009, 01:37 AM
  #97
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Dang, this is what happens when we don't have an Ovechkin, we get delusional by "singing" the praises of a Joni Mitchell -- I mean John.

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03-07-2009, 01:52 AM
  #98
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Dang, this is what happens when we don't have an Ovechkin, we get delusional by "singing" the praises of a Joni Mitchell -- I mean John.
I know, right? Whats next, A Tim "The Stapler" Stapleton Tribute Thread?

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03-07-2009, 01:53 AM
  #99
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To be honest, I'd much rather have a player like John Mitchell than Matt Stajan and Grabovski..but thats probably just personal preference.

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03-07-2009, 01:55 AM
  #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zeke View Post
A poster friend on another board (which you're invited to, btw, Ulf - not so many krazy kids over there, with more reasonable and informative discussion) has been keeping track of this all season....I'll steal from him.....

Over 900: 20-3-7 (128 pt pace)
Under 900: 6-23-6 (42 pt pace)

Above 920: 14-2-4 (131 pt pace)
910-919: 1-1-1 (82 pt pace)
900-909: 5-0-2 (141 pt pace)
890-899: 0-2-1 (28 pt pace)
Below 889: 6-21-5 (44 pt pace)

It's really quite remarkable. If we get even .890 save percentage from our goalies, we're 20-5-8 (119 pt pace).

When you pair that with the fact that everyone realizes that Toskala has played significantly better after sitting out those two games (and Gerber continued that strong play last night)...and that we're undefeated since Toskala turned it around....not sure we have any choice but to make a simple conclusion - this team is pretty good.
So if we had a goalie like Jonas Hiller (920 save percentage) or Pekka Rinne (923 sv percentage), wed be stanley cup champs?

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