HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Montreal Canadiens
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

News Report: Carbo fired

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
03-10-2009, 11:10 AM
  #751
teppo51
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 2
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Le Tricolore View Post
And why is this supposed to be funny? "Carbo is fired".

teppo51 is offline  
Old
03-10-2009, 09:22 PM
  #752
Habsterix*
@Habsterix
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 13,475
vCash: 500
Yes, it was the coach! 17-2 the shots in the second period, with our two shots coming very late in that period. Damned Carbonneau.

But funny that Kovalev is his old unmotivated self still...

How's the fire the coach kool-aid? Maybe they'll get Gainey fired to, so that the best things that the Habs had going for themselves, the rare few that cared about this franchise can be gone! ****ing bull crap. Ride the wave folks! Join the bandwagon and ignore the real problems! Hope you'll be happy!

Habsterix* is offline  
Old
03-10-2009, 09:26 PM
  #753
waffledave
waffledave, from hf
 
waffledave's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 20,663
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Asterix View Post
Yes, it was the coach! 17-2 the shots in the second period, with our two shots coming very late in that period. Damned Carbonneau.

But funny that Kovalev is his old unmotivated self still...

How's the fire the coach kool-aid? Maybe they'll get Gainey fired to, so that the best things that the Habs had going for themselves, the rare few that cared about this franchise can be gone! ****ing bull crap. Ride the wave folks! Join the bandwagon and ignore the real problems! Hope you'll be happy!
It's been like 28 hours since Carbo was fired. You can't expect an immediate turnaround. Come on.

Not just that, but I was very impressed with how little time is spent in our zone as opposed to before.

__________________
Yours in Christ,

waffledave
waffledave is offline  
Old
03-11-2009, 01:33 AM
  #754
Habsterix*
@Habsterix
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 13,475
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by waffledave View Post
It's been like 28 hours since Carbo was fired. You can't expect an immediate turnaround. Come on.

Not just that, but I was very impressed with how little time is spent in our zone as opposed to before.
In Vancouver, Alain Vigneault's job was on the line. Instead of firing him, Gillis went and got him some help in Sundin. He stuck with Vigneault and look at them now.

Here, not only didn't we provide Carbonneau with the player personnel he needed, we kept our cancer and fired the coach.

Two similar situations, two different outcomes.

Habsterix* is offline  
Old
03-11-2009, 09:46 AM
  #755
MathMan
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 17,097
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Asterix View Post
Two similar situations, two different outcomes.
Two superficially similar situations, you mean. They were really two different situations, so they had two different outcomes.

The Canucks were losing because they rely so much on Luongo and Luongo was hurt and was terrible coming back from his injury. And because Sundin was quite frankly a boat anchor for quite some time after he joined the club (good on him that he got better, now). Or have we forgotten that Therrien's job was on the line because the Canucks were atrocious despite adding uber-savior Mats Sundin?

The Habs situation was completely different. From the comments the players made, it was clear that Carbonneau had alienated much of his roster -- not just the Kovalev types, but also the Begin and Dandenault hard-working types. Even Koivu was astoundingly harsh in that polite post-coach-firing way that is common in these instances. That stupefied me as I did not realize the resentment ran so deep. Never mind the increasingly odd strategic decisions. I was a Carbo apologist for a long while but frankly it was at the point where he was losing even me.

I know you love to harp on evil cancer Kovalev, but it seems pretty clear it had gotten to the point where practically every player in that room, no matter what type they were, were fed up. Frankly, I don't think Kovalev was the coach-killer in this instance -- the fact that he was grating on even the grinders is significant, I think.

Before he was fired I genuinely thought Carbonneau could turn it around. After he was fired, after seeing the comments from players, I'm not so sure at all anymore. He may or may not have been the problem... but I've grown to the conclusion that he wasn't the solution.


Last edited by MathMan: 03-11-2009 at 10:05 AM.
MathMan is offline  
Old
03-11-2009, 10:17 AM
  #756
Sined
The AndroidBugler!
 
Sined's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 6,572
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MathMan View Post
Two superficially similar situations, you mean. They were really two different situations, so they had two different outcomes.

Therrien's job was on the line because the Canucks were atrocious despite adding uber-savior Mats Sundin?
Vigneault

Sined is offline  
Old
03-11-2009, 10:25 AM
  #757
MathMan
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 17,097
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sined View Post
Vigneault
Sorry... I've got those two seriously muddled together.

MathMan is offline  
Old
03-11-2009, 11:05 AM
  #758
Kriss E
HFB Partner
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 25,055
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Asterix View Post
In Vancouver, Alain Vigneault's job was on the line. Instead of firing him, Gillis went and got him some help in Sundin. He stuck with Vigneault and look at them now.

Here, not only didn't we provide Carbonneau with the player personnel he needed, we kept our cancer and fired the coach.

Two similar situations, two different outcomes.
Not at all the same situation.

Vigneault didn't go through the same slump to begin with, and like MathMan said, Luongo/Sundin were coming back from injury/break so it took time for them to get back in game shape.
You can't say for a fact that Vigneault would have still been there if they had a similar month of February as ours.

Also, our team play was anything but convincing in our victories like defeats. This is also the 2nd time in 3years that Carbo just didn't seem able to make our team get out of a slump.
Our team had never looked as bad and Carbo didn't have any strategies. This was very clear from his multiple quotes such as ''I don't know what to do anymore'' or ''I say something, it goes in one ear comes out the other one''...
At some point you have to ask yourself why?..
The players also complained to Gainey about the lack of communication and decisions. We also had a few players asking to be traded under Carbo's reign. This wasn't the case with Vigneault.

We have a team that finished 1st in East last season, so it's not because our players weren't good enough. Sure maybe a Sundin would have helped, but that doesn't explain how poorly we were playing.
You can't change your whole team at the deadline, and seeing as we finished 1st last year, there was no need to make any huge trades last summer. Now, taking into consideration that we're in the centennial year, missing the POs would be unacceptable and with the way we were playing under Carbo our chances of making it seemed to worsen every day.

I understand if you want stability within our coaching staff, I agree.
But Carbo was a bad coach.

So, to say Vigneault and Carbo were in the same situation is quite foolish..They weren't even close to being in the same one.

Therrien has Crosby/Malkin/Gonchar and a good Goalie, they might not be the same SC contender team as last year but in no way should they have been out of the POs. Does this mean there was some cancer in the room?..Because ever since they changed their coach they're 9-1-1 if I'm not mistaken.


Last edited by Kriss E: 03-11-2009 at 11:35 AM.
Kriss E is offline  
Old
03-12-2009, 12:25 AM
  #759
Habsterix*
@Habsterix
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 13,475
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MathMan View Post
Two superficially similar situations, you mean. They were really two different situations, so they had two different outcomes.

The Canucks were losing because they rely so much on Luongo and Luongo was hurt and was terrible coming back from his injury. And because Sundin was quite frankly a boat anchor for quite some time after he joined the club (good on him that he got better, now). Or have we forgotten that Therrien's job was on the line because the Canucks were atrocious despite adding uber-savior Mats Sundin?

The Habs situation was completely different. From the comments the players made, it was clear that Carbonneau had alienated much of his roster -- not just the Kovalev types, but also the Begin and Dandenault hard-working types. Even Koivu was astoundingly harsh in that polite post-coach-firing way that is common in these instances. That stupefied me as I did not realize the resentment ran so deep. Never mind the increasingly odd strategic decisions. I was a Carbo apologist for a long while but frankly it was at the point where he was losing even me.

I know you love to harp on evil cancer Kovalev, but it seems pretty clear it had gotten to the point where practically every player in that room, no matter what type they were, were fed up. Frankly, I don't think Kovalev was the coach-killer in this instance -- the fact that he was grating on even the grinders is significant, I think.

Before he was fired I genuinely thought Carbonneau could turn it around. After he was fired, after seeing the comments from players, I'm not so sure at all anymore. He may or may not have been the problem... but I've grown to the conclusion that he wasn't the solution.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
Not at all the same situation.

Vigneault didn't go through the same slump to begin with, and like MathMan said, Luongo/Sundin were coming back from injury/break so it took time for them to get back in game shape.
You can't say for a fact that Vigneault would have still been there if they had a similar month of February as ours.

Also, our team play was anything but convincing in our victories like defeats. This is also the 2nd time in 3years that Carbo just didn't seem able to make our team get out of a slump.
Our team had never looked as bad and Carbo didn't have any strategies. This was very clear from his multiple quotes such as ''I don't know what to do anymore'' or ''I say something, it goes in one ear comes out the other one''...
At some point you have to ask yourself why?..
The players also complained to Gainey about the lack of communication and decisions. We also had a few players asking to be traded under Carbo's reign. This wasn't the case with Vigneault.

We have a team that finished 1st in East last season, so it's not because our players weren't good enough. Sure maybe a Sundin would have helped, but that doesn't explain how poorly we were playing.
You can't change your whole team at the deadline, and seeing as we finished 1st last year, there was no need to make any huge trades last summer. Now, taking into consideration that we're in the centennial year, missing the POs would be unacceptable and with the way we were playing under Carbo our chances of making it seemed to worsen every day.

I understand if you want stability within our coaching staff, I agree.
But Carbo was a bad coach.

So, to say Vigneault and Carbo were in the same situation is quite foolish..They weren't even close to being in the same one.

Therrien has Crosby/Malkin/Gonchar and a good Goalie, they might not be the same SC contender team as last year but in no way should they have been out of the POs. Does this mean there was some cancer in the room?..Because ever since they changed their coach they're 9-1-1 if I'm not mistaken.
This clearly shows that you know nothing about what was said here in BC, sorry that the media didn't report everything in your part of the world. Those situations were a lot closer than you make it sound.

Habsterix* is offline  
Old
03-12-2009, 01:06 AM
  #760
MathMan
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 17,097
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Asterix View Post
This clearly shows that you know nothing about what was said here in BC, sorry that the media didn't report everything in your part of the world. Those situations were a lot closer than you make it sound.
Only because you WANT them to be close so you can justify your point. And yes, in some ways they are -- all losing coaches are embattled, and they can almost always be rescued by the performance of his players. (It didn't help Claude Julien with the Devils, but hey.) But that's pretty superficial.

The Canucks' problems were not solved by adding Sundin, and especially not by removing a supposed "cancer" in the lineup. Adding Sundin helped, no doubt, once he returned to form (it was well-documented fact that he was terrible at the beginning). Going on a hot streak was the result of several players, including Sundin and Luongo, returning to play to their ability level. Besides, I think it's unwise to judge the 'Nucks too much on their recent play. The Habs were 8-1-1 before they started their nose-dive, and those were convincing victories. Hot streaks have a way of ending suddenly at times.

In Montreal, the turnaround wasn't happening nearly quickly enough, if at all. And it's not like Gainey did nothing. He acquired Mathieu Schneider, a player who's not as good as Sundin, but was within the cap space of Montreal and did fill the team's most immediate need. Schneider helped immediately, but while the Habs won it was a stretch to say they were turning things around. Sundin was no longer available when the Habs started crashing, and the Habs had Lang doing very nicely, so you can't blame him for not acquiring Sundin -- the naive thought of Gainey finding a savior to turn the team around and save Carbo's job was not possible in any case. And that's assuming that with the problems Carbo had, said hypothetical savior could have helped at all!

To somehow blame Carbo's firing mostly on Kovalev, when Koivu -- not reputed to be Kovy's best friend -- went on the radio and went on at length on Carbo's communication problems, and when Begin and Dandenault -- about as far apart in attitude from Kovalev as you can imagine -- make the same sort of comment... that's really a gigantic stretch, and even if you're motivated by Kovalev hate, that's a leap you cannot make with the facts at hand. That all was shocking to me -- that the contestation after the fact came from all points in the dressing room, where the easy option of the politically correct "we let our coach down" was available.

I'm sorry, but Kovalev was not the root of problem. He could be certainly be better, but he is not the cause of the Habs' problems. Carbo may not have been the root of the problem, either, but this whole saga made it clear to me he also wasn't likely to be the solution.

I've been a Carbo apologist, I'll admit, but if Vigneault has the same communication issues that Carbo has and has alienated his players to the same degree, then I doubt the 'Nucks would have gotten better.

MathMan is offline  
Old
03-12-2009, 02:39 AM
  #761
Kriss E
HFB Partner
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 25,055
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Asterix View Post
This clearly shows that you know nothing about what was said here in BC, sorry that the media didn't report everything in your part of the world. Those situations were a lot closer than you make it sound.
Wow..well thanks for enlightening me as to how those situations were very much alike.

One thing for sure, I listed a bunch of reasons as to why the situations were different:

-Not the same slump length.
-Not the same expectations out of these teams.
-Not a centennial year in Vancouver.
-No complaints to Gillis about poor communication/decisions from Vigneault.
-Vigneault's contract comes to an end at the end of the season which can let a GM be a little more patient.
-Carbo signed a 3year extension.
-2nd time in 3years that Carbo didn't seem able to get our team out of a slump. You think Gainey was going to let this centennial year be similar to 06-07?.No.
-Carbo had no system or tried to implement one that didn't mold with our players. (Coach has to adapt to his players and find a system that will work for them, not the other way around)


Now, other than having the fan/media pressure and going through a slump, what exactly did they have in common?

You can try to blame it on ''cancers'' in the room, but that's all BS.
First off, you nor anybody else, know what goes on in the locker room.
Second, I think we can agree that Begin is as good a team player gets. Maybe his skills have dropped and he got old, but he'd sacrifice everything for his team. So, if Carbo doesn't even have the decency to inform Begin with what he did wrong or give him pointers as to what to do to keep a spot. If Carbo has difficulty keeping guys like Begin or Dandenault on his side, then your ''cancer'' theory doesn't hold much ground.
Do you realize how BAD you have to be to lose a guy like Begin???..Like..seriously..


Last edited by Kriss E: 03-12-2009 at 02:57 AM.
Kriss E is offline  
Old
03-12-2009, 05:11 PM
  #762
BLONG7
Registered User
 
BLONG7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Nova Scotia
Posts: 12,712
vCash: 500
Has Carbo met the press yet??? I hear he has his speech ready, but he can't seem to stop changing the lines...

BLONG7 is offline  
Old
03-12-2009, 05:17 PM
  #763
Kimota
Nation of Poutine
 
Kimota's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: La Vieille Capitale
Country: France
Posts: 22,307
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by koivu View Post
Have to admit I became a casual Canadien fan for few years UNTIL the day Bob Gainey signed as GM.

That one move brought instant credibility back to the Habs.
He just commands and gets respect - and goes about it in a very efficient style.

Something probably missing ever since Scotty Bowman left years back.
Serge Savard commanded TONS of respect. Same with Burns.

Kimota is offline  
Old
03-12-2009, 10:17 PM
  #764
Habsterix*
@Habsterix
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 13,475
vCash: 500
I see that it sure was Carbonneau's fault if we performed as miserably as we did... oh wait...

Habsterix* is offline  
Old
03-12-2009, 11:07 PM
  #765
MathMan
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 17,097
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Asterix View Post
I see that it sure was Carbonneau's fault if we performed as miserably as we did... oh wait...
Yes... I'm sure coaching is so easy that anyone can turn a team completely around in 4 days...

MathMan is offline  
Old
03-12-2009, 11:13 PM
  #766
Habsterix*
@Habsterix
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 13,475
vCash: 500
Yep, it sure was Carbonneau's fault... no doubt about it. Must be a communication thing...

Habsterix* is offline  
Old
03-12-2009, 11:15 PM
  #767
MathMan
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 17,097
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Asterix View Post
Yep, it sure was Carbonneau's fault... no doubt about it. Must be a communication thing...
More of a confidence and tactical thing, I think.

At any case, can't really fault Gainey for not having pulled the team out yet. Whether Carbo would have done better by now is questionable at best IMHO.

I'm also disinclined to think it was Kovalev's lackadaisal play that caused this loss, either...

MathMan is offline  
Old
03-13-2009, 08:31 AM
  #768
Habsterix*
@Habsterix
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 13,475
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MathMan View Post
More of a confidence and tactical thing, I think.

At any case, can't really fault Gainey for not having pulled the team out yet. Whether Carbo would have done better by now is questionable at best IMHO.

I'm also disinclined to think it was Kovalev's lackadaisal play that caused this loss, either...
Yes... I'm sure getting rid of the negative Kovalev effect is so easy that anyone can turn a team completely around in a day...

Habsterix* is offline  
Old
03-13-2009, 08:41 AM
  #769
Habs 4 Life
No Excuses
 
Habs 4 Life's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Montreal
Country: Italy
Posts: 33,335
vCash: 256
I'm pretty sure Carbo went to bed last night with a really big smile on his face!!

Habs 4 Life is offline  
Old
03-13-2009, 10:30 AM
  #770
waffledave
waffledave, from hf
 
waffledave's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 20,663
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Habs 4 Life View Post
I'm pretty sure Carbo went to bed last night with a really big smile on his face!!
Yeah...It was Thursday night so he just got his employment insurance check.

waffledave is offline  
Old
03-13-2009, 10:52 AM
  #771
la25ecoupe
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,596
vCash: 500
Wait til the Jersey game, that will tell us what Bob is made of!

la25ecoupe is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:09 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.